>>3905883

Speed running like grinding seems more like autistic stimming behavior than genuine enjoyment, and is rarely done by the mentally well.

>>3905883
It's very slow, yet a good game.

>>3905902
Completely backwards.
Speedrunners enjoy games enough to exhaust them through mastery....like musicians practicing one instrument until it sings beautifully. Normies hop from one shallow experience to another, like flipping radio stations, mistaking novelty for enjoyment and never going deep.

>>3905930
Trials of Mana 2D is way snappier than people give it credit for. Once you know a route even vaguely, it flies...speedrunners clear it in ~4.5 hours, and after watching a few runs you can finish in 9–10 with minimal practice. It’s action-driven, cleanly paced, and doesn’t bury you in dialogue spam or spreadsheet-tier character building.

>>3905931
If you waste real life time, for lower in game time by resetting progress to do something 'faster' you are mentally ill.
People want to see someone beat a game using skill, actually playing it as intended but knowing where to go, what is worth getting and what isn't. Abusing bugs to make the credits scroll is not impressive or interesting.

I would like the game way way more if it didn't take 5 full seconds every time I moved in the menu
Also I remember the ice area being complete fucking bullshit for some reason but it's been years since I've played it so I don't remember specifics

>>3905931
>Speedrunners enjoy games enough to exhaust them through mastery
You would be shocked at how many speedrunners don't like the games they speed run.

>>3905960
You would be dumb to make such broad claims with no evidence.

>>3905931

Nah its all about getting those numbers up on the board on speedrun.com in between collecting disability cheques.

>>3905931
Nope!

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>speedrunning

To be lumped in with other pathetic cretins such as minmaxers and everyone else who sees video games as misplaced sources of achievement and social signification.

>>3905883
>>3905933
>Trials of Mana 2D
good job outing yourself as a newfag. It's Seiken Densetsu 3.

>>3906007
How can a disable play games

>>3906164
1.
>what is fraud
2.
Have you ever played a game on the internet before? They're full of disabled people.

>>3906140
>Don't do challenge runs
>Don't replay games either!
>Don't be competitive! Don't improve!!
>Games aren't like your other hobbies they are supposed to be mindless and CHILL!!!
So just hop from game to game having the most shallow tourist experience possible.

Reminds me of every shitter you encounter online when you beat them they say something to the effect " I don't play for ego, if I spent more time I'd win, only reason you won is cause you have no life, I don't play games to be tortured,etc"

Meanwhile they have twice the /time played of the players they lose to lmao

>>3906269
None of these are equivalent to speedrunning or minmaxing, which are different because they exist on the basis of deliberately playing the game in bad faith by abusing mechanics in ways that are contrary to how the game is intended to be played.

>>3906274
>by abusing mechanics in ways that are contrary to how the game is intended to be played.
You're retarded since not all speedruns have glitches.

Its funny because casual players are often the first ones to look up overpowered strats online.

>>3906310
yep, learning the game is cheating

>>3905883
> is streaming it now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1MTB-7cPYw
>wow he's autistic!!! hahahah! what a FREAK!
I'm kind of jealous to be honest, I have periods where I can't find "the right" rpg game to play and invest my time in, meanwhile there are guys out there re-playing the same rpg a hundred times in a row and having a blast. You can tell from his streams he's having a good time, despite the tight time attack restrictions and goals he has

>>3905883
I'm overdue for a replay, I think I've gone through it 5 times. Had to drop the remake cause the action isn't as fun.

>>3905931
Tell me how doing a save glitch in Pokemon Red that beats the game in 5 minutes is perfecting a video game.

>>3906429
Based and mana pilled
I'm going to beat it again with another team, last time I did Charlotte, Lise, Kevin

>>3906581
There are glitchless runs, there are runs that use minor glitches, etc. speedrunning has so many varieties

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>>3905883
Super cool pixel art

>>3905883
This game is a 1000x better than Secret of Mana, but I hear about it way less unfortunately.

>>3906729
Because it never got localized, but it only seems like it did cause it was translated by fans in 2000. A lot of dudes who just started fucking with emulation downloaded this random game called Seiken Densetsu 3 and it got popular by word of mouth online.

>>3906729
I played seiken Densetsu 3 before secret of mana 1, love 3 but 1 doesn't do much for me....

timeless classic, especially the third game seiken densetsu 3 which never got ported over unfortunately.

>>3906756
>A lot of dudes who just started fucking with emulation downloaded this random game called Seiken Densetsu 3
Yup, my friends and I did this. Lots of people got into Squaresoft with FF7, then checked out the SNES back catalog. Loved the fan translation of FF5.

>>3906770
It got ported to the Mana Collection. Beat it on my switch last month. But they call it Trials of Mana (2D).

>>3905883
I like it, but I'm not gonna sing that much praise for it. It's a fun beat-em-up, but it's slow and very grindy if you're not aware of cheese strats. The Benevedon Hunt and grind for ??? Seeds are massive chores.

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>>3906778
Why?
I never grinded anything. My last save file before the final boss, my guys are level 37 and 38. First playthrough, around 18 hours.

I see most people beating it around level 50-60....why lol

>>3906781
Well for me, I always wanted the class up as soon as I accessed the statue, and the exp. scaling would always leave me having to grind a few levels before moving on

>>3906781
Now try to beat it in less than 10 hours.
Then less than 8
then 6
Then go for the World Record if you're man enough.

>>3906773
Precisely. I didn't 'get' jrpgs until my friends showed me Legend of Legaia, so I played all the snes titles for the first time on emulator.

>>3906804
so...what did you "get" in the end?

he's streaming again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN8j1kji6j8

Trials of Mana speedrun #314 世1狙(仮)

>>3906781
Because some people don't just item spam their way through the later fights.

aren't you the speedrunner retard that was crying about rpgs on /vr/? did that attention get you hungry for more?
lol

>>3905883
>slow as shit
>no actual costume changes for classes
>Angela is worthless without using an exploit slowing the game down even more
There's literally no reason to play it over the remake.

>>3906856
the scope

>>3907088
It's faster than the remake if you know how to play. It's harder than the remake. Those are reasons enough.

>>3907071
>Using your gold to buy items wisely
That's not item spam. And that's better than grinding levels mindlessly.

Tl Dr, git gud

>>3907075
I'm not a speedrunner but I do disdain and despise many aspects of RPGs and jrpgs, specially how they don't respect your time (too much filler, bloat, menuing, talky talk, backtracking, things that are barely gameplay etc) and how their challenge is often lacking!!!!!!!

>>3907387
And yes I do like to study games I play in order to play them well and quicker than normal blind runs! But nothing like speedrunning skill or practicing runs

>>3907387
yeah, thought so, you were in an anti-guide thread crying about rpgs, though you really meant jrpgs, for dozens and dozens of posts. now you come to the rpg board.
lol

Is the "Class Balance" fan patch any good? Any other fan patch you can recommend?

>>3907470
Crpgs have better roleplaying than jrpg but their combat is a billion times worse, specially if it's action lmao western devs still have no clue how to do action combat that isn't fps

>>3907607
wrpg combat is atrocious, true.
But RPGs are more than just combat they are also like visual novels and walking sims too

>>3907241
No, it is item spam. Also,
>buying
Healing items come a dime a dozen in this game, even if you're not grinding.

Either way, it turns the game in a boring, protracted round of "red light, green light" where you're constantly going into the ring menu to heal up in between enemy nukes. That shit is lame and boring.

>>3907607
>>3907610
lol, so you're going to repeat the exact same act here. figured.

>>3907631
>Buying heals is bad
There are way better items to buy than heals, specially from Byzel night market.... if you know enemy weaknesses and also have Kevin to buff and enrage.
heals are often saved for a death cancel glitch not just mindlessly spammed to stay full HP all the time. My inventory wasn't full of heals anyway and often just saved 9 candies or 9 poto oils for boss fights. Also Charlotte backup healing...etc

>it turns the game in a boring, protracted round of "red light, green light" where you're constantly going into the ring menu to heal up in between enemy nukes
No. If you're playing well, using strategic items, attack cancels to get extra attacks then popping a healing item now and then is just part of the action.
If you play like a shitter I could see how you assume low level characters would require spamming heals non stop but that's not the case if you know how to play.
The other alternative is grinding excessive levels, wasting time mindlessly so you never really have to figure out how to play or come up with strats, but instead brute force the game making it piss easy with superior numbers, so the whole thing is mindless.
One if the worst aspects or westoid RPGs and jrpgs is never being really challenged due to level or gear advantage.

>>3907876
>westoid RPGs and jrpgs
jRPGs are westoid RPGs.

>>3908010
>Japan is Western
Honorary aryans ok

>>3905947
This. I appreciate that they show how to break games and having that as its own category is great, but to me the best speedrunning is just playing the game without any bullshit glitches and optimizing your performance. It shows full working knowledge of the ins and outs of a game and its mechanics. That to me is the pure essence of speedrunning.

>>3908075
>>3908075
>>3905947
>>3908075
Study speedrunners for effective techniques; adopt what suits you, ignore the rest...no need for hundreds of resets.
But pursuers of speed records, S-ranks, or hi-scores seek not mere validation, or numbers for numbers sake but deeper challenges that demand repeated play with escalating precision and engagement. Basically an excuse to replay a game while still making it interesting.

100 hours deep dive on one game equals 10 hours across ten....both are leisure “time sinks”. Yet leisure doesnt mean easy, mindless or unskilled. Casual target practice over beer contrasts with competitive marksmanship where the core act yields skillful mastery and lasting thrill...yet both are just shooting stuff. Which one is better? The one that is more mindful, skilled, and interesting desu. I’d rather be a marksman than a drunk aimlessly shooting when it comes to gaming.
If I want to zone out, chill and be “comfy” I don’t game.

Until they mod the game to play more like sword of mana I can't imagine sitting through this game again. Once was enough. Sword and children are better than it even with their problems. Secret is not even a finished game but it plays alright too if you don't care.

>>3908082
>Played Secret of Mana 3D remake on vita
>Sorta copy a speedrunner route
>Get softlocked accidentally doing some skip or invincibility glitch
Ha! Yes ! So cool

>>3908115
Sounds like skill issue. It happens to best of us!

>>3908062
They took on Western values with the Meiji Restoration and went even further with their loss in WW2, but they are not Westerners, hence they are "westoid" since the -oid suffix means "not actually the thing but like it", like with humanoid meaning shaped like a human or android being a man-like robot. Unfortunately nu-weebs don't know what the memes they copied mean, I think they got it from /pol/tards using "leftoid" and thought it was merely a form of insult.

>>3908142
can you define these too: jewoid commuoid tranoid

>>3908159
I don't have to define them, I already told you what -oid meant when added to a word, so any defintiion is just "like the thing but not it", so like a Jew but not actually Jewish, Arcanum gnomes for instance, is jewoid, et cetera, et cetera.
C'mon now, think for yourself.

>>3908162
Shut up kiddoid cringeoid

>>3908115
>I want a mod!!!
Just git gud shitter

>>3907570
All I can say is there's at least one nonfunctional move in the game (energy ball), so you want something that fixes

>>3908062
Jrpgs are like wrpgs at least in the sense that they're 'light' or casual versions of crpgs. The whole genre in Japan was inspired by a couple of specific series. But western devs didn't really get into designing their rpgs for console until the mid 2000s.

>>3908290
>Shut up kiddoid cringeoid
Don't engage anons with multiple replies if you don't want them to reply, fag

>>3907224
>its harder
Lol lmao even

>>3908290
>kiddoid cringeoid
Why, thank you! Very sweet.

>>3908337
Not a compliment, goofoid

>>3908741
Yes, it is.

>>3908141
>>3908290
>illiterate retards cant read
I'm shocked you also managed to beat this game, but then again, I beat it when I was underageB&

I like how speedrunners play Seiken Densetsu 3 with two gamepads simultaneously

>>3906307
You're retarded since you think that not breaking rules consists solely of not using glitches

>>3908807
what rules did the devs make and intend you to follow lmao?

I get abusing major glitches, but wtf are you talking about now in regards to the post you're replaying to ?

>>3907876
So you rushed through dungeon areas and cheesed bosses with weakness exploits. Not much of an improvement.

>>3908836
They intend you to play the way the game is meant to be played. No, I will not elaborate on this. The same goes for the rest of life insofar as social living goes, with exceptions proving the rule. You live according to conventions every single day of your life, and if you are stupid enough to break with convention in everyday social situations and interactions with other people the stupidity and unfavourable consequences of doing so is made obvious to everyone else very quickly, as it is in the case of anyone who breaks unspoken rules and conventions when it comes to playing video games.

>>3908842
>playing well and smart is cheese!
Yeah I wish I spent double the time to play half as well, now that would be a real fun experience!
And no using clever strats and exploiting enemy weaknesses is not the same as cheesing, cheesing implies some sort of mindless gimmick that takes no skill.

>>3905960
>>3905961
True, most professional gamers hate games eventually.

This topic has nothing to do with RPGs, it's all vague personal principles about how to engage with games. Belongs on /v/.

>>3908942
Reading comprehension quest failed.

>>3909329
There's absolutely nothing specific to RPGs in the meat of the discussion. It's all about personal opinions on game habits.

Seiken Densetsu 3 was probably my favorite snes game as a kid but it does not hold up as an adult (beat it recently), there is too much wrong with it. It's a bad game. People in this thread are bullshitting or haven't beaten it. That being said, it's probably the best looking snes game (along with Star Ocean).

>>3905883
I just got the 3d version of Trials of Mana last winter sale, never played it before. Which version is better 2d or 3d?

>>3909368
>It's bad....because...it just is!!!!
Care to explain?
I don't think anyone said it's perfect, it's just a decent rpg that's fun to play. As far as RPGs go it's fine. It's snappy, doesn't hold your hand or bog you down with bloated dialogue/cutscenes/info-dumps. The characters are varied and fun to mix and match, items are cool and very useful. Bosses and level design is on point. Visual and sound have aged like fine wine though, so nice.
Only issue is it's too easy, relative to other action games, but relative to RPGs it's normal difficulty which is usually not much at all

>>3909370
2D is better
3D is ok but combat is even easier than 2D...even on hardest setting....sad!

>>3905883
>If you claim to have a "favorite rpg" but haven't beaten it even 10 times, are you even telling the truth? Are you even a fan of it? Or is it just fake interest on your part?
That's interesting discussion. I'm not a fan of speedrunning, especially the ones that skip actual gameplay through bugs. I actually enjoy stretching out games I know well with self-given restrictions and tasks because I don't like "finishing" my games. Once you reach the end, it's over. I never liked that. This is probably why I love MMOs, too.

>>3909370
2D is fun but its fundamentally broken in several key aspects with stats/abilities that don't work and glitches that break the game in half. Don't use spells/screen freeze techs on wolves/ninjas/knights if you know what's good for you.
Worth playing first to truly appreciate the changes in the remake and you can clear it in no more than a couple of days.
3D is a huge overhaul that's generally for the better but the only difficulties that are worth anything are Expert/No Future which are designed around being done on NG+2 at minimum and only if you used everyone at least once among other preps. If you dont like musou style combat you won't like 3D because it does the same CX stuff.

>>3909502
games that are long by design are usually that way due to padding, bloat and lots of tedious or low-skill content, backtracking, menuing, cryptic info that gets the player lost etc. Which makes replaying them feel like a nightmare chore. This is the case for most rpgs and jrpgs unfortunately.

It's cool that the guy in OPs post manages to beat secret of mana 3 under 5 hours, I mean you can do that in a sitting or two. I could see replaying an rpg if one was skilled enough to beat it in one or two sittings, and bypass the typical fat rpg-bloat-content.

>>3909532
I like to take my time in RPGs since they are usually "once and done" type games that I won't replay ever, or very rarely.

Kevin is overpowered

>>3908902
they hate you for telling the truth

>>3905930
its only slow if u grind up to class change at the wind crystal - something the excellent sins of mana romhack addresses with an altered XP curve.

I am blessed to have found this game during 5th grade 1999 and enjoyed it regularly during my childhood. I was always hawk, sean was always kevin and joey was always duran ( cuz they are both fkin gingers)

>>3905883
You know how some speedrunners cheat with emulators? Not trusting it.

On a different note, since this should work as a proxy Mana thread, how do you think will they make an anime out of Trials? Honestly, I want them to make a dual protagonist angle focusing primarily on Duran (the intended protagonist) and Riesz (the most popular Mana character in Japan), with the two interchanging protagonist roles in certain intervals in the story while covering almost every storyline in the game by making Angela, Hawkeye, Kevin and Charlotte rotate positions as the third party member (the anime concept is logically impossible considering the interchanging protagonist concept alone, but we're taking liberties here anyway). Though to be honest, does anyone think we need a new Mana anime adaptation?

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>>3911151
They would probably structure it the same way they did with the ToM stage play from last year, all 6 characters traveling together (Duran is the MC though) but constantly splitting into groups of three throughout the journey, finalizing in each pair going to their respective final dungeon and banding up together again to fight the final boss (the Dragon Lord in this case).

>>3907088
>t. doesnt have 2 friends

>>3911202
>only has e-friends

>>3911332
I ain't even mad. I just had 2 of my buddies over last week and we played some Gauntlet and Diablo 4, and probably went through about 20 beers a piece. Playing through SoM and SD3 with them back in the day was a great experience. you should try it out.

>>3911427
Virtually none of my friends are into RPGs. I tend to get along with a wide array of people. I did play SoM back in the day with a buddy, who I'm still friends with to this day, but never seriously as the way the screen anchors you is annoying with two people. We just kept trapping each other and fucking around. At this point though, we've moved beyond playing kid's games.
You shouldn't drink so much.

>>3911430
>We just kept trapping each other and fucking around
ahh, the truth comes to light! so you guys just suck at teamwork and coordination and ended up frustrating eachother rather than having fun. I get why you don't like series then.

>>3905883
This is the slowest action RPG I've ever played in my life and the balance is shit. The remake was a huge improvement.

>>3911439
I did like the series as a child, I'm not the other guy, just teasing you. But no, we had fun, we just weren't the type to play the same game for hours together at that age, remember the early 90s was still when kids played outside. I do think the games were far better as singleplayer experiences though.

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>>3911430
>At this point though, we've moved beyond playing kid's games.
you have to become wiser

>>3911442
Combat is fast if you know how to play your team and switch characters to get extra attacks and attack cancel, you don't have to kill everything on screen except in rare 'locked in' situations. Also the pacing is great, constantly in the action with very little downtime or filler. The only objectively slow thing is some of the character menus are slow as shit, but you don't need to enter them often.

>balance is bad, 3D remake is better
it's harder than the 3D remake, if you want an easy experience then go with the 3D.
Sounds like a skill issue desu

>>3911514
A faerie tale is not childish. Mythology is not childish. They never have been and I never tried to seem older than my years. That C.S. Lewis quote everyone pulls out doesn't apply to any of this.
I'm talking about a game for children, that I mastered as a child, not a narrative with any depth to it, it's not interesting to play such things at this point.

>>3911549
What does someone like you play and "master" now?

>>3911554
Lots of things. For Action RPGs from Japan, Elden Ring or Dragon's Dogma are more interesting.
You really don't need to get this offended, OP doesn't even know the name of the game he's talking about, the whole thread is garbage.

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>>3911558
It's called Trials of Mana now.

>>3911554
He didn't master anything, the only guy approaching mastery is the japanese speedrunner in OPs post

>>3911514
True

>>3911442
Get good shitter.

>>3911568
>It's called Trials of Mana
No.
>He didn't master anything
The game is not in any way hard, I think you hold "mastery" with undue regard. Speedrunning isn't simply mastery of a game, it's a completely different style of play with completely different priories.

>>3911575
speedrunning is a different style of playing but doing it well, high level-- like the guy in OPs post does require mastery of the game to pull off.

>>3905931
Holy fucking based.

jesus, this kid is so desperate for attention. he's doing the same bit over and over in multiple threads.

>>3915180
wow, what? care to explain?

>>3911568
Can you play this Trials of Mana (SD3)as 2 player co-op? Cuz if you can I need to get it. That was the best part of Secret if Mana.

>>3915200
Yes the 2D trials of mana for switch has local co op play

>>3915200
with the snes version, there is a 3-player patch also.

>>3911514
No, it's slow as fuck and easy as fuck. Spells are shit for no reason and provoke counters. Kevin is massively overpowered.

>>3915634
>Combat is slow
Get good shitter you are clueless and revealed it. You probably miss a lot and don't know how to get extra attacks lmao pathetic

>Magic
Magic is great for buffs, debuffs and heals desu
Kevin is massively based
You suck at RPGs

>>3911151
they need to finish the legend of mana anime first, I want to see the dragoon saga animated.

>>3911514
spell animations, as was the style with square at the time, are rather slow. Sins of Mana is a great romhack that addresses this ( and nerfs the goated class Wanderer)

I don't get how the original is somehow harder than the remake. The most recent update of the remake included two new difficulties, with the highest difficulty demanding that you know the bosses' moves because their attacks are mostly one hit deaths.