imo
>Ancient Rome was a mistake
>having Gaul/Britian as a separate region was a mistake; should have been Latin+Gaul in the same region with Gaul in the North
>map gen sucks
>diagonal roads are really cool but we need more diagonal buildings too

>>2331710
>>Ancient Rome was a mistake
Kinda! I think a slightly romanticized Ancient Hellas colonization sim would have been a more fitting take on this islandhopping concept of the anno games

>>2331729
>>2331732

>>2331732
No, I think Hellas would also have been a mistake. And for me it's not out of any hate of the Ancient World, I think it's not good for the current Anno formula post-1800. An important game element is late game infrastructure (so you have to plan and design your cities from the start for things like rail lines and power), and while aqueducts can be an equivalent of that it's not as compelling. I've been trying to think about the late game infrastructure problem for a while now. All I could think of was caravan routes or something.
What I expected from 117 was to continue to build on what 1800 got right, but instead it was a step backward in many respects even if others are in themselves welcome additions.

>>2331738
That's relevant for Anno 1800. It wasn't for any of the previous annos unless they were sci fi because the age of sail or 1404 didn't have it. I did love anno 1800, but they can't just repeat 1800. anno 1900 (number autism aside) would be great to see given you get a similar leap (airplanes!) but it would have been foolish to follow up 1800 with a decade change.

I'd favor have just leaned into pure romanticized/fantastical antiquity. Anno 1800 had dieselpunk airships. Anno 117 could have automatronic taloses/colossi, hero of alexandria style steam-technology (Steampunk in an ancient context would have been a nice homage of sorts to 1800 but also distinct on its own). Except for ubisoft's collapse there's still time for that.

>>2331779
I'm not saying that the Anno series now always must have trains, I'm saying it needs late game infrastructure to keep the gameplay loop fresh.
Like let's say you were to set an Anno in medieval Italy. Canals might be a good choice, or perhaps you need to build a castle, or otherwise redesign what was initially a rural town into a Renaissance urban center.
One of the problems with Roman city planning is that it often didn't go through this evolution. It was very advanced, probably one of the best in history, but the Roman economy was 10% subtle genius innovations like sewers and concrete and 90% slave labor. They threw bodies at problems, and tended to copypaste their city plans because lowest common denominator mass production is best when you're throwing bodies at things. This contrasts with the Medieval Era, when you couldn't really throw bodies at things every time and so there was an increasing reliance on early machines until it all reached critical mass with the Industrial revolution. As related to Anno, this again makes the Ancient Era a poor choice because once the city exists there was little city planning done unless you wanted to build a bigger temple or expand an estate.

>>2331785
Gotcha I just thought you meant in the context of prior annos while you mean more "1800 showed how this really is essential for gameplay, no we have to have it more".

>>2331710
When I saw how big the research screen was and how it would take hours each node I assumed it was account wide and I'm still surprised it isn't. Like you've got the hall of fame unlocks just go all in on the franchise mode thing that other sim games are doing.

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>>2332339
There was an idea of a rogue-like Anno that really appealed to me and I'm disappointed we'll probably never get it.
Was basically
>you have to settle an island, but if you pollute the ecosystem gets fucked, but when you fail you unlock better and/or more sustainable production buildings and upgrades
Imagine a sequel to 2070 with that.

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>>2331710
> what went right
> build Rome in 7 days±
> diagonal roads, diagonal! ROADS!!!
> land warfare
> deity worship adds a new dimension
> swamp britons are hilarious
> placeholder buildings kino
> aqueducts

> what went wrong
> game feels less polished than predecessor on launch
> performance issues
> unwieldy UI
> no newspaper with funny headlines
> "diverse" portraits

>>2332368
This appears to be an accurate representation of a decadent roman briefly before the collapse of the empire.

>>2332371
Isn't it about time to leave this sort of thing behind?

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>>2332371
kek, good one
117 is a bit too early for Rome's fall.

On the subject of falling empires and decadence, I see no chance for an official DLC in the Levant, but ambitious modders could make a really funny mod. Imagine instead of building a wonder, you could have your soldiers tear down a monument to punish rebellions.

>>2331710
A shame noone mentioned production buildings buffing housing, I had the most fun building my city around around them, making little crafter's quarters.

Unfortunately, the 'diverse' portrait that was posted is accurate. Tiberius and Caligula were infamously nonces, and there was even one emperor that was an unironic troon as if he had isekai'd from 2020.
Our modern morality, as in the 'please stop being a fucking faggot you moron', was not present during the Iron Age. There were ideals of manliness and femininity and honor and so on, yes, but if you were sufficiently rich and aristocratic you would frequently mock these values as they were for the poors.
But at least on the flip side we have Marcus Aurelius, who is overhyped (it was just his personal journal) but still cool.

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>>2332416
Which games represent the ethical frameworks and social norms of a specific era without filtering them through a 21st century lens?

>>2332539
The difficulty is that historical ethical frameworks and social norms either aren't relevant to gameplay per se, or don't make for good games, or don't live up to expectations.
Take slavery in ancient Rome. Extremely important, to the point where ignoring it is effectively putting the entire point of setting a game in Rome into question. Slavery was vital to providing the large quantities of manual labor that Rome needed for various projects, it was key to various social changes (Latifundia slaves are what contributed to mass urbanism made up of displaced small family farmers, and also the death of the Republic), and it educated the elite (Greek tutors were often slaves). There are so many things in Ancient Rome connected to slavery. But how do you turn that into gameplay? Not morally acceptable gameplay, just basic gameplay? It's a difficult question and you'd have to design pretty much everything around it, so ignoring it as 117 does is a deliberate choice that sometimes has to be made. The game can't get made if slavery is everywhere, nobody wants that shoved in their face, but it's the reality of Ancient Rome.

As for games that do put you in the proper mindset, King of Dragon Pass does a good job of making you think and act like a Bronze Age tribal chief.

>>2331710
No idea but the game is boring. I love Anno 1800 and fire up another round once a year. Played 117 for about 10 hours and couldn't do it anymore. But also can't point at the issue beyond that the setting is objectively worse than 1800's.

>>2332887
I can't really think of any way to salvage 117, unless you want to do something crystalpunk with Atlantis or whatever. Or have a Roman style "industrial revolution".
It's a shallow era. Rome peaked fast and then had a slow decline. By the 1300's, feudal Europe had surpassed it in many respects. Egypt or Greece won't fix things, as Greece had already peaked long before this and Egypt was hellanized to the point you can't even call it Egyptian (although I'm sure the devs will try to claim Nubians were still building Pyramids).

>>2332843
I was playing Grand Ages Rome before 117 and I liked the way it handled slaves. You purchase slave estates as you level up your character and this allowed you to build more slave markets which replaced your citizen workforce in your production buildings, freeing your citizens up for higher value productions. If 117 had some teeth regarding the Roman setting, slaves could've been a resource for your higher tier citizens. All they had to do was make a slave market production building that could only be built in Albion that generated slaves to be shipped back to Latium.

>>2333372
>Grand Ages Rome
Looks interesting. I'll give it a try based on your rec.
>Anno 117 slave markets
Anno has always put a big smiley face on history. It was never going to happen.

Calling the series anno really limits what could be done. 117 would have been better as an age of mythology type spinoff just lumping all the greek mythos into one game.

>>2333445
I disagree about the name because who cares, but the franchise could use a fantasy game where the devs can do whatever they want with the resources and pops.
Like three regions, humans on the ground surface, elves at the top of a world tree, and dwarves in an underground cave. That sort of thing, but not necessarily. Go wild with it.