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>>41800888
Previous thread >>41724621

>>41800888
Mormons are not Christians thus this Christian Esotericism General is invalid!

>Occult Mormon Edition!
So... /ceg/ finally reveals its true hidden face.

>>41801556
They originate from Masonry and Christian Esotericism in a way
>>41801570
It was all an LDS psyop

>>41801766
>It was all an LDS psyop
Christianity is an LDS psyop.

These threads are the best thing ever.

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Joseph Smith is given the most important command ever
>DO NOT PLACE THE TABLETS ONTO THE GROUND!
>NO MATTER WHAT!
>NO MATTER WHAT!

So what does he do?
Guess
Guess what three for me bigamy I own all of the pussy, because my cock is Hole E Aye lmfao 10% tax now fuck boy does....
Thinking about poo tang instead of the holy tablets
So guess WTF happened next?!?!

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Place your bags down...
PICK THEM UP
"Place" your bags down....
PICK THEM UP!!!!!!!
"PLACE" your bags down
PICK THEM UP!!!!!!

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Should I become Catholic?

hmm should I participate in this thread or the hellenistic one

>>41805126
Become what your background is really, denominations aren't as important unless they're fringe cults
>>41805129
Both

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>>41802616
Yes, because the LDS Church is the original Church of Jesus, restored in 1830 by the messenger of Elohim, Joseph Smith (PBUH).

>Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
>Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
>Blessed to open the last dispensation,
>Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

>>41805484
I don't trust anyone with a carefully styled haircut on spiritual matters.

>>41805774
Funnily enough the book of mormon reads a lot like the Silmarillion while the Quran reads a lot like something written by Robert E. Howard.
Anyone else notice this?

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>>41805126
The day that I would undoubtedly call the most important of my life was the day I gave my life to Jesus Christ and the Prophet Joseph Smith and felt the sweet waters of baptism wash my sins away.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rrqLKAl8CO4
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/coUZE99pzz4
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dJT4idXuIBM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kLqcPPQ3vgs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhSnkCPkR3I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2APZpR2tIc

explain why Christians dont work with Angeloi to destroy the enemy
but
explain why Satanists work with their Demons and their legions to destroy Christians or others
?

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>>41808832
The Saint Michael prayer/guardian angel prayer are some of the most popular prayers out there. As to why other angels aren’t usually invoked, there’s been limits set by ecclesiastical authorities saying not to, and in surface level Protestantism, invocation of any figures but the Trinity is usually frowned upon to say the least.

>>41800888
Has anyone found a based church (particularly orthodox) that accepts occultism? How do you rectify what many say with your knowledge?

E.g., the talisman in the OP with the Jupiter kamea. I wouldn't judge you for making that, but others might. What's the play here?

>>41807847
It would be Middle Platonic then
>>41808832
We destroy the enemy ourselves, but we venerate the Saints
>>41809723
The Mormon theme is us just being cheeky, talismans and the like were common centuries ago, but honestly you don't need them

>>41809927
Perhaps I should rephrase

Astrological talismanic magic has been used by Christians for centuries. Benedictine monks used them, for example - if you read the foreward to Agrippa's 3 Books it's from a Benedictine monk praising the work - so how did they rectify this?

Please excuse the newline fagging I've been using shitter too much.

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>>41806006
Named the angel moron with an i got all the morons in america scared of sex, alcohol and chocolate/coffee to follow him into a icey/inhospitable near scorched salt pit.

Biggest dummist/scammer of the 1800's the only other I think of is lord rothschild who created the reserve scaring people in england to believing napolean won the war after they imprisoned him(dumping all the banking assets to his family).

>>41810190
The problem was necromancy and talismans were associated with it, so Marsilio Ficino tried to explain talismanic magic by means of occult forces and natural philosophy instead, back then it was more normal, but now those things are disregarded by science and the Church can't even associate with them if they wanted to, we get enough scrutiny from miracles and Saints already even with good evidence
>>41810226
I did look up if Moroni is connected but no, the widespread use of Moron in English started after Mormonism, it's a greek word that got revived

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>>41810226
Mormon culture and society are based as fuck.

>>41800888
>888
Checked
So who else thinks Melchizedek is pre-incarnation Jesus?
Or is he an Elohim from the divine assembly mentioned in Psalm 82:1?

So I asked why God might give someone a talent or drive for something only to hinder their attempts to do that thing and the response was
>Yes because God wants that person to develop until he can overcome what has been hindering him

Except this doesn't make sense to me, because I used to be able to write, even had a few short stories published. I've prayed and begged and asked my pastor about it, they even prayed for me at Bible study, and at that same Bible study I felt what I thought was divine inspiration. A poem where a healer goes to a town during a blizzard and is guided by lanterns mysteriously left at the roadside--Christ is a guiding light, basically. I prayed to God and specifically asked for guidance on my words and...wrote an absolutely horrible half poem. I really don't know what to do anymore. I think God wants me to suffer and be incapable.

>>41810617
Honestly I have no Idea but I'll tell you this
>Elohim
For Origen of Alexandria, Jacob/Israel going down to Egypt with his 70 descendants at the end of Genesis is the Angel Israel/Jesus coming down to earth with his Angels
>>41810645
Wait you got stuff published? You're in the 0.001%, listen, just calm down
Did you that your problem is common? That every artist while have a period in their growth as an artist where they think that everything they make is shit and that it feels like they're only getting worse?

>>41809000
>prayer
im not (only) talking about prayers. they are fine and good.
>limits set by (appeal to authority) nonces
got it
so you either dont know, or dont dare to take it upon you aka fullfilling your holy duty as Christians to obliterate evil
many such, sad, ect ect. lukewarm
>>41809927
>We destroy the enemy ourselves, but we venerate the Saints
same as above.
DIY is good too, i respect, but i really feel that you should accept help from God when he gives you the option(s), especially in these trying times.

why else can angels and arc angels called or invoked by order of Him to lend Their assistance? same like satanic nobility or demons i feel.
maybe you arent noble and white/competent enough that they are going to appear, then i take it back, what i say and excuse myself.
but shouldnt true Christians then seek to get noble and white to be in a state to be able to work with Them?
of course it is easy for me to point the fingers at others and ask stingy questions. but if i dont ask them, who else will?
>>41809723
i had a lenghty discussion with the headpriest of a russian east orthodox church, he basicly confirmed all the things (true) /x/ anons know.
maybe i will put together a list of questions once more and appeal for an audience? idk

>>41811010
For starters, when I say I had stuff published, I mean short stories. Maybe 6-8 over than last 16 years or so. And that's not the issue, the issue is that I haven't written anything since May of last year because the words simply don't come to me anymore. Like, I'll get out my laptop with every intent to write and just stare at the screen for an hour or two straight and do nothing because I simply can't write anything anymore for some reason.

>>41811122
>Maybe 6-8 over than last 16 years or so.
More than 99.9% of people who "would like to write" or "write but don't vet published"
>Like, I'll get out my laptop with every intent to write and just stare at the screen for an hour or two straight and do nothing because I simply can't write anything anymore for some reason.
That's writer's block and it's common
Maybe if you calm down, you'll get some shower thoughts, get an idea, and will want to write it, or you read something and get inspired
It's a normal situation, don't worry, it goes away

>>41811276
I don't think you understand what I'm actually saying. I have plenty of ideas for stuff, I just literally can't write no matter what I do. I've been reading, I've been keeping track of ideas, I've been praying for strength and guidance, and none of it works.

>>41811333
Trips
Yes that's writer's block, look it up

>>41811397
I know what writer's block is. I've experienced it before and this feels different in a way that's hard to describe, but even if it were just writer's block, wouldn't praying to God for the strength guidance to overcome be a good idea? Why does it still seem insurmountable after literal months of prayer, from myself and others? Is God punishing me for something? I've asked for His forgiveness for literally everything I've done that might even be a tiny sin. As soon as something that might have been a sin comes to mind, even if it was a tiny thing I did as a child, I include it in my prayers and as for forgiveness, but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Am I cut off from God for some reason? Am I soulless or something, an abomination?

>>41811761
I suggest you calm down, take it easy and maybe the issue will lessen, because from the way you write it sounds like you're in a life and death situation

>>41810492
Word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHW-QFw5d-E

>>41811035
>...he basicly confirmed all the things (true) /x/ anons know.
maybe i will put together a list of questions once more and appeal for an audience? idk
Please do, this is of great interest to me.

>In my hand, I wield the Universe, the power to strike and conquer.
>I vanquish the wicked, uphold the righteous, and ease the suffering of the people.
>My eyes see beyond the west, the north, the rivers, and the mountains.
>My voice shakes the east, the south, the Sun, and the Moon.

>The glorious sword of authority is granted by the Lord.
>Poems and books stand as testimony, praising Yahweh before His throne.
>Through Christianity, the World of Light is unified.
>The sovereign air will bring joy for countless generations to come.

>>41805126
Do you believe in the authority of the papacy?

>>41815008
As first among equals, yes. As infallible (even ex cathedra), no.

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>Occult Mormon Edition!

Any bored anons want to help me think of a esoteric and/or creepy sounding name for a breakaway Mormon church? This would be for a horror western TTRPG.

>>41815453
Take the name of a dangerous christian cult and change it to make it sound mormon

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>>41815453
Gathered Elect of Deseret Restored

>>41815453
Sons of the Stars

>>41815008
Nah.

>>41815453
Elders of the Temple

>>41818416
Saying that female priesthood does not break with apostolicity is absurd. Of course it does. If it wouldn't the apostles would have consecrated women without a problem. It's not like in the ancient pagan world there were no women priests and the idea would have been entirely unthinkable. In ancient Christianity the masculine and feminine have clear distinct symbolic meanings and functions. Only the modern world is the one that is unable to recognize this profound distinction and symbolism, and in this sense Milbank is himself tributary to the modern way of thinking which is ultimately disenchanted and anti-traditional.

>>41818656
Of course. He's a very original thinker with a lot of very profound things to say. But he also has the politics of a teenage girl. And that invariably bleeds into and distorts some of ideas.

On top of that, his wife Alison is a British Anglican priest, which makes the whole thing personal for him.

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>>41818924

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>>41800888
>“He [God] spoke to me about this [the future Messiah] in Paradise after I picked some of the fruit in which death was hiding: ‘Adam, Adam, do not fear. You wanted to be a god; I will make you a god, but not right now, but after a space of many years. I am consigning you to death, and the maggot and the worm will eat your body.’ And I answered and said to him, ‘Why, my Lord?’ And he said to me, ‘Because you listened to the words of the serpent, you and your posterity will be food for the serpent. But after a short time there will be mercy on you because you were created in my image, and I will not leave you to waste away in Sheol. For your sake I will be born of the Virgin Mary. For your sake I will taste death and enter the house of the dead. For your sake I will make a new heaven, and I will be established over your posterity. And after three days, while I am in the tomb, I will raise up the body I received from you. And I will set you at the right hand of my divinity, and I will make you a god just like you wanted. And I will receive favour from God, and I will restore to you and to your posterity that which is the justice of heaven.’

>>41818959
They need to buy a new rug.

>>41819005
First mention of Margaret Barker in this Mormon themed thread. Surprising she was not brought up earlier and more directly.

>>41818416
I love Milbank but can't agree with him
>>41818418
A masterpiece i recommend every Christian reads
>>41818656
>>41818924
You can tell that he's left wing, i first noticed it from him being against the Israel-Hamas war
>>41818945
>>41818949
Never seen these
>>41818974
>Pordage
>>41819048
Can't wait!
>>41819052
It's weird, i have been reading her Enoch book recently, honestly I haven't learned anything new from here, and I dislike that she tries to link her ideas with Islamic sources which are barely reliable

>>41819205
>Islamic sources which are barely reliable
Not reliable in any way I'd argue. Yeah, I am sure "Gabriel" chocked Mohammed because he grew frustrated that Mohammed couldn't read. Also appareantly the totally-not-demon "Gabriel" can't enter any buildings with dogs in them.

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I visited Jakob Böhme‘s grave last spring. Rest in peace, brother.

>>41820341
Great pic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Paah2KFGRjc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UADfY2N4DkU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEDrXpHaWuQ

>>41805126
Yes. The mystic tradition is deep and very well documented for learning. The biggest downside is Catholics LOVE getting caught up in Current Thing. People overblow the Papacy and Bishops there are issues but they're nothing serious.

Best Christian anarchist books?

>>41818959
imagine that little fella swinging a sword

>>41805126
If you want to join the Church founded by Jesus Christ instead of some cheap knock-off, yes.

I'm getting closer to omnibenevolence, I think, but I'm still a ways off. It just feels so much better to love everyone than to overlook anyone. Any tips for getting there faster? I assume I'm just supposed to focus more on God and try to love Him as much as possible.

>>41821455
I don't get it. Is he implying frogs are satanic or something?

>>41821614
https://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2026/01/their-land-brought-forth-frogs-in-abundance/

>>41800888
No St. John of the Cross?

Dark night of the soul is a crazy time.

>>41821892
>No St. John of the Cross?
Thank goodness.

Is it worth getting a complete copy of the Legenda aurea? I already have a selection.

>>41822552
Yes.
Very comfy reading and edifying for the soul.

Does anyone have eperience with Carmelite retreats? There's a Carmelite monastery that's offering various retreats to focus on prayer, which are typically a week long. I'm definitely interested, but don't know what to expecrt.

>>41821384
Leo Tolstoy?
>>41821455
Kek the return
>>41821892
Bonaventure is there instead, but the OP isn't meant to cover every single topic

>>41820341
Very nice
Looks so peaceful

whats up with the the "J" group? And by that, I dont mean the ones that first come to mind. Whats their plan? What should I be doing? If the theories are right, which is the real church then? Im frightened

https://corjesusacratissimum.org/2012/04/what-findhorn-could-never-give-me/

Mormonism rips off Freemasonry.
That's really just it. Look it up, it's well documented.

Not any more complicated, the way it is.
In short, fuck Freemasons and Rosicrucianism. All occultism is a disgrace and scandal to the faith.

Freemasons expect you to believe the animal sacrifice of Hindus and that of 2nd Temple Judaism were of equal value to the Father as that of his only begotten son.
It is literally not possible to be a freemason and a Christian at the same time.
They expect you to implicitly deny both Jesus' divinity and his role as Christ.

Deal with it.

>>41822922
Just go.
You'll find out.

If you don't have any experience praying intently for at least two hours a day, every day, it might be hard for you.
Which would be a good thing.

>>41805484
He looks like the machine Elvis. Don't do anything he says

>>41824512
Very based post.

>>41824512
>2nd Temple Judaism...
...is of the Devil. If Freemasons approve of it then they're of the Devil as well.

https://edification.cjccf.org/category/mormon-kabbalah/

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How do I make Mormonism and Catholicism work together even though its impossible?

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Hey what was that deal some Catholics have with the Popes since the 1950s again?
Mel Gibson is big into it

>>41828343
lol

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https://youtu.be/duSnoFGLUjk

>>41824527
I wonder how the required silence works as you'd also partake in Holy Mass there. So no singing at Holy Mass? I think I will try it and see how it is. It will be good for me.

>>41827403
Sedevacantism

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>>41826800
>Catholicism preserves the sacramental continuity of the original covenant
>Mormonism preserves the prophetic expansion of the covenant
God is eternally embodied, but uniquely uncreated and unsurpassed. Humanity is ontologically capable of deification, but only through covenantal grace, not independent exaltation.
>Primary: Bible (Catholic canon)
>Secondary: Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants (non-equal authority)
>Tertiary: Living revelations, always provisional

I am going crazy right now there is no such thing as righteousness or justice in this world it's all wicked and evil and i hate it why are people so terrible nowadays?
I don't understand why every time i have issues with all the bullies, and the wicked, and the evils, and the lustful, and the freaks, and everything else bad in this world people talk to me as if i'm the bad guy for wanting to do something about it, for wanting something to be done about it, for wanting the righteousness Jesus Himself promised.
Where is the righteousness that Jesus promised to those who thirst for it because i have never seen any of it in my entire life and i am tired of evil always getting away with it.
Where can i go to get the answers i am looking for? Where can i go to find people who can help me? Where can i go to know what God is trying to tell me?
Why isn't God answering me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgwDhEsOd0

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Is there anything I should read to understand deep doctrine in mormonism besides the books mentioned here?

Convince me that Mormonism is true.

No religion is true. Reality is true. All any religion "is" is a flawed attempt to grasp at the ungraspable. Negative theology is there for a reason.

>>41836751
>Convince me that 2+2=4

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WrqmwWjB7-w

>>41836751
I was raised LDS but on surface level Catholicism makes more theological sense.
Its undeniable that the cosmologies are different, biblical cosmology is flat earth and Mormon cosmology has "planets". This is undeniable but quite controversial, if you disagree with my understanding of the cosmologies than whatever, believe what you want. That might be the answer to why Mormons say they believe the bible "as far as it is translated correctly" and basically place the book of Mormon at higher truth and importance.

This is something I questioned myself. If Joseph Smith really was a con and made it all up, which is the easy conventional viewpoint, then WHY did he have so many followers? HOW did he convince so many people by saying "pray and ask of God if I am right"???
Then it led me to also think that if Joseph Smith really did have a vision of the Father and the Son, then thay means there was an equal and opposite attacking on his spirit by demons. That could've led to Joseph Smith giving a mixture of truth and lies in what he wrote down, for all we know

>>41836658
Cool list. Thanks for sharing.

>>41836751
It's not.
It's basically freemason fanfiction larping.

>>41837183
JSmith wasn't a perfect man, neither was Adam or any saint or apostle.
The demons go after the good guys and leave the bad guys alone.
Who said that I said God sends demons to people? Did God cause Adam to lust? Did he cause Moses to become a drunk? Clearly not

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check'em

>>41824512
No, Joseph Smith infiltrated them to expose them and that's one of the reasons why they killed him.
Mormonism seems to be anti-secret socieites and anti-secret handshakes.
>For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations… And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their oaths and combinations… And they have caused the destruction of this people… And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain… behold, they shall be destroyed…”

Who's the best saint for helping me with anxiety and procrastination?

The Carmelites didn't reply to my inquiry. It's over for me.

>>41840249
Why the Carmelites in particular? Try other orders. There's a lot to chose for.
I imagine it's an inquiry to join their order.

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Would Mormons consider wearing normal underwear as sinful?

>>41840446
I don't know but I used to think the "magic underwear" was silly until I realized it was a dresscode to enforce modesty and being chaste.

>>41840407
No, I don’t want to join the Carmelites. I just want to go on a retreat in one of their monasteries, I hope they will accept me nonetheless. The order I’m contemplating about joining are the Carthusians, it’s them I’m drawn to.

>>41840469
Give them time and return with an e-mail if you don't get a response in a few days. They're probably busy and forgot to answer you. I imagine Carthusians don't really offer retreats, but there must be some why of getting to know them from closer.

The rule of St Benedict is a good read...the 12 steps of humility are very good. It made me decide I have to simplify my diet and clothing, to learn to be satisfied by the most basic goods

>>41840695
>It made me decide I have to simplify my diet and clothing
On the diet I have some idea on how it could be done, but what about the clothing? Most people would think simplifying clothing means less clothing, like walking around in your underwear. But it can also mean having fewer item of clothing of higher quality. Or it can mean dressing very conservatively. What do you have in mind?

>>41840750
I bought some cheap dark grey linen pants and I have two sweaters from the charity shop, one in dark olive olour and one brown. I've been switching between these clothes without thinking about it too much, they're just my basic functional clothes now and I don't feel the need to flashy clothes at the moment

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI5_ljziwi0

can you recommend a psalm or other prayer for health?
Particularly for having a wound healed soon with no infection.

>>41840022
Nah, he died throwing up the Masonic distress signal in the vain hope there was a fellow in the crowd who would intercede.

Understand, that Smith grew up in upstate NY.
By pure coincidence he publishes the Book of Mormon in the early years of the anti-Masonic movement, which started because Masons kidnapped and murdered a man who was about to *actually* expose them.

Just a few years after the disappearance of William Morgan, Smith founds his sect. Both were from western NYS btw, same region. So the uproar over the murder would have been known to him.

It's pretty clear to me that he merely used anti-Masonic sentiments to attract followers by including some token references in his magnum opus, and later exposes his real intent by institutionalizing Masonic rites into his religion.

Masons love sponsoring or founding kooky religious cults in secret, because it causes confusion and chaos. It's out of this artificially induced chaos that they impose their own order, hence the phrase Ordo Ab Chao. Plenty of these fringe types claim to oppose the Masons, but they're lying or have been played as chumps.

https://holypig.com/cotor/Bible/Cults/Mormon/Masonic.htm

some interesting resources here

>>41842561

"It was in 1823 when he received the three first degrees of Masonry in the lodge at Victor Flats, Ontario Co., New York, and in 1824, previous to receiving all of the rights up to the Royal Arch Masons, the Morgan affair broke out and the Masonic Hall in Canandaigua was burned by anti-Masons, and all their records consumed. . . . 'Not as many as three of us,' father says, 'could meet together, unless in secret, without being mobbed. I have been driven from my houses and possessions with many of my brethren belonging to that fraternity five times, by mobs led by some of their leading men. . . I have been as true as an angel from the heavens to the covenants I made in the lodge at Victor. . . . I wish that all men were Masons and would live up to their profession, then the world would be in a much better state than it is now.' " (Woman's Exponent, XII, 126, as quoted in Mormonism and Masonry, by E. Cecil McGavin, page 99)

Hyrum Smith, Joseph's brother, was also a member of the Masonic fraternity. Theodore Schroeder stated:

"At the time of writing the Book of Mormon, Hyrum Smith a brother and co-conspirator of Joseph Smith was already a mason, as also were Heber Kimball and others of the neighborhood who became leading Mormons." (Authorship of the Book of Mormon, reprinted from the American Journal of Psychology, Vol. 30, p. 66-72, January, 1919)

The Mormon writer Pearson H. Corbett confirms the fact that Hyrum Smith was a Mason in New York:

"Hyrum Smith received his first three degrees of Masonry in Ontario County, N.Y." (Hyrum Smith—Patriarch, Salt Lake City, 1963, page 269)

Joseph Smith could have learned about Masonry from either his brother or Heber C. Kimball. The Mormon publisher W.W. Phelps was another man who could have taught Joseph Smith a great deal about Masonry. According to Goodwin, Phelps was "a renouncing Mason of the anti-Masonic period and for a time, at least, a bitter foe of the Fraternity." (Mormonism and Masonry, page 14)

>>41840249
Do they even know who you are?
Like, you're some rando asking, they don't know if you're going to take it seriously or be a distraction.

They take it very seriously, and cloister themselves to focus intently on their devotions.
Try introducing yourself to some lay member of the order, or better one of their priests. Once you explain your intentions and why you're interested they would probably be a reference.

That's my speculation ofc.
It's possible they simply filled all the slots already and didn't bother responding.

Anyways if the connection between Morgan and Smith wasn't already weird to you, get ready for some real serious shit.

Morgan's widow Lucinda remarried a certain Harris, and the couple were later counted among Smith's followers moving west.
She was "sealed" to Smith, and Bill Morgan himself was posthumously baptised a Mormon.

What a world.

https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/lucinda-pendleton-harris/

Excellent thread, fellas. Greetings from the Mormon Vatican of Salt Lake

>>41840785
Sounds like a legit way of approaching the issue of clothing.

>>41842837
Are there different sects in Mormonism that disagree with one another or do they all submit to Salt Lake temple?

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>>41842478
>>41842614
Mormon history is fucking insane. My favorite part is when the mormon mujahideen fought the feds in the rocky mountains to establish a new Zion.
I'd join but mormonism but it's not big in my country and the nearest temple and meetinghouses are halfway across the country.
Guess I'll just live spiritually live as a mormon

>>41800888
Would you say these terms and conditions are fair? >>41843694

The Carmelites replied and confirmed my registration for the retreat! Praise God!

>occult mormon
these threads have always been gay but this is megahomo.

Mormons should get their own thread and not invade a Christian one.

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If Mormonism can be considered Christian, than Islam as well can be seen as it has been in the ancient past as a Christian heresy, so why not have an Christian esotericism general on Occult Islamism?

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>>41844104
Because the mormons have the NT in their canon and still believe Jesus was the son of God and in the ressurection.
They don't believe in the trinity but they do believe that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are so united in purpose that they are essentialy 1 person.

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>>41843719
it is what it is

How do you cope with the fact that there are so many Medieval theological and mystical books written in Latin which got never translated? There's so much wisdom hidden there, which I'll never be able unravel.

>>41845267
Learn Latin.
Just 15 min every day and you'll be reading it in a year.
Start with Lingua Latina per se illustrata.

>>41844120
that pic looks so uninspiring
why do new religious movements have such shitty art?

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>>41845845
You were saying?

>>41845898
Is this supposed to be good or something?
Why are they all so chunky?

>>41846071
Yes, it's extremely good art. Of course not everyone can have good taste to appreciate it.

>>41846746
>>41846755
I am all for esotericism but I don't like this one bit desu.
Esotericism should only exist to draw closer to The Lord and to glorifiy him. Using platonic/gnostic concepts like "Sophia" in the metaphysical sense only distracts from that.
Why tf do you need any platonic Sophia if you have the Holy Spirit, through which you will know all things.
HALLELUJAH!! HOLY HOLY HOLY IS THE LORD OF HOSTS!!

>>41837130
Think about Muhammad and Islam, why is it so big? It began with conquest and people were promised women in rhe afterlife
As for mixing truth and falsehood, there are many things in both the Book of Mormon and the Quran that are true, where if you told a Christian they'd say, "yes that makes sense and sounds reasonable and good to me", yet there are also things that are very disgusting, well in the Quran since the book of Mormon has mostly historical issues
Now let's say the Quran and Book of Mormon didn't have any truth in them and were 100% lies, who would believe them? No one, si by being a mixture of truth and falsehood, they can attract followers with the good and slide the bad into it aswell

>>41846921
>Using platonic/gnostic concepts like "Sophia" in the metaphysical sense
1) Read Proverbs, and then read it again without instantly going "okay, well no that doesn't count because...", and then read it a third time actually reading the words instead of not reading them
2) Then, ask yourself why Ruach is feminine, why Kingdom is feminine (in both Greek and Hebrew), what it would mean for the Jerusalem Above To Be Our Mother in the context of Israel being a Bride and being Conformed to the Image of the Son
3) Then stop thinking you can stop thinking by substituting performative quotations with what Paul literally calls Gnosis, the Spirit that Searches the Depths of God, and the Mind of Christ.

Or don't. Some people just literally cannot handle reading their own holy texts.

>>41845267
There are studies, and aome are available in different languages, for example De Harmonia Mundi by Francesco Giorgi is in latin and french
>>41846921
Wisdom is innthe Bible as a hypostasis of God
But i get what you mean, i try to distance myself from Gnosticism as much as possible

>>41846921
I think this was one of the strongest arguments against Bulgakov's Sophiology: Dowe really need it? I think Bulgakov himself would say no, but it helps explain some things while guarding their mystery that some people might find helpful, but definitely not for everyone and not as a dogma.

>>41841018
What's the crazy thing that happened at Davos?

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Is there such a thing as an Christian esoteric tattoo?

>>41849207
Maybe the fire evacuation?
https://www.newsweek.com/davos-conference-evacuated-what-we-know-11398254
There is also maybe some of the spicier speeches but I don't know if those count as crazy.

>>41849210
not esoteric but I think some ethnic christians in Africa had the tradition to tattoo in a way to identify themselves

>>41849244
You mean the Coptic Christian tattoo or something else?

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A little book recommendation for my German /ceg/ bros: Kleine Philokalie, a selection of writings by Desert Fathers and other mystic writers about prayer. I believe it's also on Anna's Archive. It's part of the book series "Klassiker der Meditation", which also features some excellent other works: https://portal.dnb.de/opac/simpleSearch?reset=true&cqlMode=true&query=partOf%3D02090231X&selectedCategory=any

I'm also wondering, whether I should acquire a complete copy of the Philokalia, it was recently translated by a Carthusian monk to German, but it's rather expensive (280€). Does anyone here own a comlete copy of the Philokalia?

Has anyone been to a Christian ashram? What was it like?

>>41849568
Look up Stimmen aus dem Heiligthum der christlichen Mystik und Theosophie, it's the western Philokalia

>>41849733
You already mentioned it to me, so I already have it. I just wish he had included more Medieval and Ancient authors.

>>41849568
Here is the complete book with chapter for Philokalia but it's in Greek. If you manage to translate it it would be very beneficial for you.

>>41849772
I will probably never learn Greek, so I have to read a translation

>>41800888
So whats up with the disconnect between societal familiarity with the Goetic spirits and the Kabbalistic angels?

>>41849740
Ah alright then
As for the Philokalia, have you tried looking for an English version instead?
>>41849861
I have no clue but I'm guessing that you my "why don't people know demon and angel names", they do demon names because of movies, as for anyel ones, well people aren't that religious anymore here, and the Bible doesn't mention any angels besides Michael, Gabriel and Raphael in the Deuterocanon

>>41849937
I think there is an English translation, but I don’t enjoy reading a) in English and b) PDFs, so I’d prefer a physical German copy, would also be a good way to support the people behind this project, I think.

Why god allows satan to rule this world?

>>41849958
That's not really what's happening, or at least, not the way you mean. It isn't that there is a guy on a throne slacking off while the evil vizir runs things and the guy on the throne is too lazy to do anything. It is more that what you and I call "the universe" is the product of God's own process of self-crucifixion, rest, and then raising. There is no evil guy in red velvet and horns, there is just the inherent violence of creative destruction.

>>41849952
Then just get the German translation, also did I tell you about the Geschichte der christlichen Kabbala books?>>41849958
Lucifer was the angel overseeing the world, just as there are angels of the nations in the Bible, when he fell the world fell with him, that's why the Bible says the earth was "null and void"
God now is working towards the "end of evil, the end of death", in the future
"Why doesn't God do it instantly"
God is eternal, the world is the opposite of God, so the world has a begining and end, God's eternal act of salvation is reflected in the world as the beginning and end of the world
So that you don't think that I'm pulling this out of my ass, this is from Jakob Böhme's Mysteriun Magnum, and from my general Christian Platonic background

>>41850034
>did I tell you about the Geschichte der christlichen Kabbala books
No

>>41850042
Look them up, they're a goldmine and on Anna's Archive

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>>>41800888
>Now Then, In the Name of “Jupiter-Shekhinah”:
>As those who bless anyone of European descent are blessed in all ways,
>So those who curse anyone of European descent are cursed in all ways. Selah.
>Impunitively, “It is Fixed.” Amen, so mote it be. [777]

>>41851478
I don't understand what this is

>>41849515
yeah that one

>>41851572
sounds like kabbalah

>>41807847
I wonder if he knows that his tweets get reposted here, or even if he knows about this Christian Esoteric General. I doubt though that he even knows of 4chan.

>>41822090
filtered
>>41821892
St. John of the Cross needs to be in the OP, moreso than Swedenborg

>>41851590
That's what I usually say when I don't understand something: "Sounds like Kabbalah to me"

>>41851572
Undiluted schizophrenia

>>41849958
For the same reason that He did not strike down "Saint" John of the Cross with a thunderbolt.

Is Lofton right for once? Has the schism between Catholics and Orthodox been healed, and most of us missed it?

>>41851603
>I doubt though that he even knows of 4chan.
I told him that I discovered him via 4chan's /ceg/ and we exchange emails every once in a while, after I sent him the Youtube links for "The Boat of the Moon" and "Coffee morning". I send him screenshots of especially choice posts from from here, occasionally. His email is listed on his site and he's approachable.

>>41852772
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxHTZYB3S3c

>>41849627
I think I gotta check this out.

>>41851764
Give me a good "category" for him and he'll be in the OP, like how Bonaventure is Catholic Contemplative Tradition
>>41852772
Have you told him about the Elias Arista/Avalon substack? It exist because of /ceg/

>>41805774
Same honestly. The only person you should listen to on spiritual matters are the homeless and schizophrenic. Unironically.

>>41847775
>But i get what you mean, i try to distance myself from Gnosticism as much as possible
Really, it's not just the gnosticism but anything that distracts from worshiping the Lord YHWH and Yahshua Christ. I also strongly oppose the marian cult and veneration of saints. I am fine with the concept of saints (as acknowledging people as good role models that the holy spirit acted through) but I hate how they are used as middle-men.
I highly respect St. Michael but why call on him when you can call on The Lord directly?

>>41852808
>Have you told him about the Elias Arista/Avalon substack? It exist because of /ceg/
I sent him a few articles from it, among them was the one about Proto-theosophy/Protestant Esotericism. Never heard back about them.

>>41852887
Kinda disappointed but ehh

>>41805484
I love Joseph Smith so much, I want to be his 40 whateverth wife. I have a replica of his death mask I make out with sometimes.

>>41845840
Honestly I feel like Greek should be prioritized over Latin. The Bible is all you really need and translations are always going to be at least a little sub-par--even the Vulgate has its share of problems.

>>41853737
Apparentely Greek grammar is a lot simpler than Latin grammar. People are just afraid of the alphabet to begin with it.

My favorite mormon encounter was banging a mexican mormon girl in a polyamorous marriage. Eyy its funny how they can interpret polygamy.

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>>41800888
mormons are good lads

What's your favorite commentary on the NT?

>>41854452
Anything by St John Chrysostom.

>>41855130
Unfortunately we're not returning very soon to the medieval credit and banking system.

>>41811761
1 Corinthians 10:13
Proverbs 16
>Am I cut off from God for some reason?
Maybe being cut off from your writing is God’s way for you to experience the fear of being cut off from God, in order to write about that experience and lead others out of it with you. I think suffering is a sign you are still on the right path. If you had given up on yourself, you wouldn’t be questioning.

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>>41852808
>Give me a good "category" for him and he'll be in the OP, like how Bonaventure is Catholic Contemplative Tradition.

Apophatic Carmelite mysticism.

>>41856067
>Apophatic Carmelite mysticism.
based
I need to learn more about the Carmelites. I wonder why Edith Stein joined them in particular.

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>>41856308
The Carmelites are my favorite of the Catholic religious orders.

I still need to read these books I bought, Dark Night of the Soul and Ascent of Mount Carmel by John of the Cross as well as the Interior Castle by Teresa of Avila.

I will try to finish Interior Castle first, since it is pretty short.
I started first with Dark Night, but I think I will start with Ascent first after I finish Interior Castle.
But I will say, John's description of the Seven Spiritual Deadly Sins in Dark Night has been illuminating to me.

I highly recommend you to look into the Carmelite mystics anon.

>>41856420
>>41856308
I also consider getting myself a Brown Scapular, but I will probably do that after I have finished these books and have gotten a glimpse into Carmelite spirituality.

>>41856430
You would first need to be consecrated to the Virgin Mary, vow to live virtuously and dutifully fulfill your obligations to the life of the church.

Then wearing it would be effective, as a sacramental.
It's not a magic amulet or fashion accessory. Rather, it's an emblem of personal dedication.

Reading a few books and "glimpsing" the Carmelite spiritual tradition would not be sufficient.
The scapular marks one who has been publicly enrolled in the order.

You don't "get" one for yourself.
One is given to you, invested into your care.

>>41856420
Johannes Verlag publishes so many great books, especially in their series Christliche Meister: https://www.johannes-verlag.de/jh_christliche_meister.htm

aw man i skip a few days on X and miss my home faith's ceg (i mean it's still here, I just missed most of the convo)

anyway, here's a fun little things

https://substack.com/@radderdaysaint/p-164894467

Also I know it's cliche to say that the LDS took the masonic ceremonies and they're just piggybacking, but that is insufficient given the metaphysics that Joseph paired with them and the fact that he puts it all back in the garden.

I tend to think that it's more Joseph recognized the truth in the mason's deeper ceremony (which (speculation) could have been influenced by Ficino's Platonism/Neoplatonism).

If you go get into Iamblichus and theurgy, I mean that's a lot closer to what they temple rite is performing in a Latter-day Saint context than the Masonic rituals. And Iamblichus got them from the Chaledean oracles and the Chaldees go all the way back to Abraham (where the Book of Abraham says they were performing rituals and they kept the knowledge of the cosmos there).

Anyway, have a blessed day. Stay warm and if you don't mind keeping my family in your prayers, your families will also be in mine.

>>41843658
What happened to that attitude? The feds are full of mormons now

>>41856923

tis a shame, one can only hope it's an infiltration

>>41856829
Never said it was a magical amulet or fashion accessory, thanks for assuming that I would treat it that way.
And yes I know about being invested in the scapular by a priest, I am well aware of that. I was just using colloquial language.
I wanted to read Carmelite literature to see if I really want to receive the scapular.

>>41856874
Thank you anon

>>41857275
You're welcome.

>>41857404
Contritionem praecedit superbia.

>>41856923
Well, spiritually the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is far closer to Brigham Young. The Mainline Church bowed down to worldly preassure and gentile kingdoms.
>The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. -Brigham Young

>>41856420
The Interior Castle is a fundamental work of Christian mysticism.

My local church finally acquired a monstrance, so now I can participate in Eucharistic adoration before Holy Mass, nice.

>>41860213
How did your parish not have one until now? Doesn't every parish come with one preinstalled? It does not have to be a 6 feet tall, solid gold one, but I imagined every Catholic church has one.

>>41860425
I don't know the whole backstory as to why they didn't have one, maybe it broke or they lost it. But the priest just said they started by asking other parishes if they had any monstrances left they could give us and when that wasn't the case, they bought a new one.

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>>41854452
To answer my own question: I also highly recommend St. Thomas of Aquinas‘s Catena aurea, a compilation of various commentaries by Church fathers on the gospels.

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It’s not really esoteric, but I’ve recently been getting into Pope Benedict‘s work starting with „Salt of the Earth“, a long interview he did with a German journalist on the Catholic Church and now continuing with his „Introduction to Christianity“, which I really enjoy. Its apparent from his writings he has extensive knowledge and I also like his clear and his unagitated style.

>>41860760
I had no idea about the existence of such a thing. Thanks!

>>41860800
Yeah, it’s pretty neat, Aquinas selected and compiled the writings in such a way they fit each other perfectly and it nearly seems like one coherent text despite the different authors.

>>41857588
Man, knowing that i feeling extra bad for the men and boys they exiled.

>>41861810
Even worse, it's complete self-destruction. Polygamy is strictly prohibited by the LDS even for leaders after the feds threatened to seize church assets.
A very stupid choice, God would have protected them and delivered the US into their ends if they stayed loyal but instead...
>You have relied on the king of Syria, and not relied on the LORD your God…” (2 Chron. 16:7)
People who are tricked into the sin of monogamy are forever barred for attaining the highest glory and will only be servants in the Celestial Kingdom
>Some people have supposed that the doctrine of plural marriage was a sort of superfluity… but it is not so. It is essential to man’s highest exaltation

>>41861845
Is there doctrine about exiling men so that they do not have access to the wives you want?

>>41861875
No, there is not. But historcially was discussion about removing or restricting access to wives for men who were seen as disobedient or apostate, which is understandable.

Is Dostoevsky /ceg/?

>>41862072
probably

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>>41862273
I don't understand what he means here...

>>41862349
Fairies stealing spectacles, etc.

>>41861893
That’s real rough, i think it was about 400 kicked out. Some for just kissing a girl they’re own age at 13. No second chances in FLDS? I bet the girls get second chances though, can’t be kicking out potential wives.
Just potential competition

Which text helped you the most in understanding the true nature of the Holy Trinity?

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>>41865285
Athanasian Creed

>>41865285
The writings of Dale Tuggy.

>>41865525
He literally is a member of the Unitarian Christian Alliance

>>41865285
The Five Theological Orations by St Gregory Nazianzen
Against Eunomius by St Gregory of Nyssa
De Trinitate by St Augustine

>>41865425
That's good, but quite short. I'd recommend Athanasius' more developed works like De Incarnatione.

>>41865285
So if I get it right Jehovah, Jesus and Holy Spirit are three distinct personalites basically sharing a "soul"?

>>41855239
That's the chief problem with the age: nothing simply comes from the land anymore. Putting material wealth aside and just speaking spiritually, the mechanized economy is simply inferior. It's a problem that will never be solved.

>>41865890
Jehovah (Yahweh) is one of the Hebrew names of God, who is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are One who is a Trinity and a Trinity that is One. They don't share a "soul" because that would, in essence, mean the "soul" is what God truly is, as in, the quality that gives the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit their divinity. This would lead to there being a quality that makes any and all of the three persons of the Trinity divine, with the rest of their qualities being superfluous or at the very least non-divine. Rather, each of the three persons is fully divine, in all aspects, in all qualities, which they share, as they are all God.

>>41800888
>be me
>go for hike to visit chapel at mountain top
>it's snowy outside so everything is a bit unrecognizable
>I take different path down that I came since it's easier and I don't wanna slip
>get absoloutly fucking lost in the woods lmao
>rely on the Lord God to find my way back and pray to Him to guide me back to the road
>0.0001 second after I say Amen I turn my head slightly and see one of the Jesus images that are on the road up to the chapel
Happened to me today
Praise the Lord Yahweh!

>>41855648
I haven't given up on myself. I'm actually not sure what to call it. I miss the me that created freely and with joy. I feel jealousy toward men I see who can do...not jealousy toward their tools or workspaces or gear...their ability. I'm really starting to feel like maybe I was wrong and that me getting an answer from God was just wishful thinking and that there is nothing for me as a man beyond being a dad. My youngest will be 18 in about 5 years and then I guess I'll just sit at home and rot away since my purpose will be fulfilled then...so I guess this is me giving up.

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>>41865634
I know. But his book is very helpful for understanding various Trinity theories and their development.

https://randalrauser.com/2017/09/what-is-the-trinity-a-review/

>>41849207
https://rumble.com/v74njvs-q-trump-have-destroyed-the-davos-wef-nwo-agenda.html?e9s=src_v1_cbl%2Csrc_v1_ucp_a

>>41867833
NTA.
I disagree.

It it were so, you might be able to raise one point of his which is edifying.
But I suspect that I could very easily obliterate every last objection he might have to the Trinity with nothing more than a single argument from no more than three simple predicates, all of which are obtainable from scripture and basic reason about telos and ontology.

>>41865285
Deus Caritas Est

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>>41868398
>raise one point of his which is edifying
I found his discussion of Logos theorists and Modalistic Monarchians to be super interesting and edifying.

His article on the Trinity in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy is really good too:

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/trinity/trinity-history.html

>>41868783
Wow, so it sounds like he denies that God himself bled on the cross. At least he marginally conceives of the triune hypostases as extension of essence, by proxy. How closely that approximates Turtullian's own though I could only guess, since I'm not seeing any citations here.

And that the precious blood of Christ was so called because it truly is divine.

If you're interested in hearing a real proof for orthodox trinitarianism, I could post that in the next thread.
It would bear better fruit here than elsewhere.

>>41868783
But I will note, that he splits what should be considered as an eternal procession into "times".

Something he might superficially attribute to Tertullian, but is something I doubt can be actually gathered from the text itself. Otherwise, he would have an example ready to provide evidence for those schema.

>>41841018
I wonder if they are really having satanic rituals at Davos. How much of a satanic organization is it? Of course not everyone is in on it, but a few at the top must be.

>>41867978
>>41867984
>>41867989
>>41867997
This is good stuff.

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>>41868783