Death penalty seems to cost more

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I agree. One example of a case where it is best to let the criminal live would be in cases where said criminal could be turned into a martyr.

>>18318797
Only because of dragged out death row and being picky over "humane" execution methods. It's a deliberate policy to attrit public support for the death penalty, not an indication of the cost of the death penalty itself. Stop keeping them in death row for 40 years and just shoot/hang them. It's cheap as hell.

>>18318804
This is illegal basically everywhere except China and North Korea and their ilk

>>18318946
Don't complain about the death penalty's "cost" if the cheap version gives you the ick then, just skip straight to the faggotry.

people who are interested in things like crime are low iq retards. notice all the people who watch crime shows? women.

>>18318948
Don't push for executions if you're going to do it arbitrarily with a risk of wrongful killings.

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>>18318990
>Watching crime shows is the same as developing a system of justice
Kill yourself.

>>18319011
That's the faggotry I expected. Btw Japan has the same policy as "North Korean and their ilk"

Self-defense is more humane and every man has the right to be their own police, judge, jury and excetuioner. There's no moral reason you can use to deny a man to boil alive an intruder who tried to break in.

>>18318794
It's better because of wrongful condemnation which can't be reversed after death.
>>18318804
>>18318948
Humane methods are cheap and simple. A nitrogen tank and a CPAP mask are trivial to procure.

>>18319013
hit a nerve. keep pretending to philosophize

>>18318794
you can't resurrect someone if you find out they didn't actually do it
some people get exonerated after decades in prison

unless you want to just waste people like these retards:
>>18318803
>>18318946
>>18319023

>>18318946
>le designated enemy country is bad
thank you for your valuable input ZOG-Bot no. 18318946

>>18319052
Bold take but I think a country where you officially have to pretend to believe that the dictator does not need to poop is in fact bad.

The primary issue with the death penalty is the chance you'll execute someone innoccent. A life sentence gives more time to exonerate falsely convicted people.
>it is better to let the guilty go free than to punish the innocent
But not everyone agrees with this definition of justice, but I prefer living in a country that does.

>>18319052
>some people get exonerated after decades in prison
Often times it's literally because it's been decades and key witnesses have since died, evidence has been lost, and the "innocence" project wants another criminal to be let out on the street.

>>18319014
Not quite. Japan has a fairly high standard of evidence for capital cases and appeals are an option. Prisoners aren't told their execution date but it's early that fast.

>>18319159
More often it's because of perjury, unreliable witnesses, or prosecutorial misconduct.

>>18319159
>the person who was found innocent was actually guilty because of my feels
amazing

>>18319075
>see goy, people in the mineraldepositstan are so stupid and crazy, they totally are forced to do this thing that we didn't just make up
yeah...
if i had a dollar for every story that was just made up about north korea like people who were "executed with AA guns" and then showed up alive a while later or the "mandatory haircuts" that was literally just a photo of some barber shop or "they push the trains around" id have enough cash on hand to buy a house without a mortgage
you can literally see this shit happen in real time
remember cartel de los soles? they stopped claiming it was a real group the moment they blackbagged maduro
grow some braincells

>>18319635
People are being set free because of true crime autist outcries nowadays and I'm supposed to believe the "innocence project" doesn't abuse technicalities? Talk to me when Derek Chauvin is released.

>>18318794
Life imprisonement is more profitable as you can enslave a convict forever

>>18318794
Why are executioners such queers? Just kill the guy.

>>18319159
the innocence project gets most of their releases through getting evidence or witness statements thrown out. Many of the people they help get out ARE guilty but the case was not prosecuted correctly with shortcuts taken.

>>18320289
>Read your post
>Get a gut feeling
>Look up who founded the Innocence Project
Every God damn time. Every GOD DAMN TIME! When will we be free of them?

>>18320289
>many
Vast majority.

>>18320263
Most people doing life sentences are not doing any form of work in prison. Those jobs are kept for low level felons and people with misdemeanors. Especially any work that would require them to actually leave the prison on a work crew, that's just asking for a dead CO and escaped convict. People with life sentences just sit and waste away in segregated housing. The US justice system is clogged up with people that absolutely refuse to simply NOT make life harder for everyone around them. The death sentence is used far too sparingly in my opinion.

>>18320301
The death sentence is more expensive to carry out in a majority of cases than life imprisonment. The way our justice system is designed was meant to afford the greatest respect to accused people to avoid tyranny. This was back when the founding fathers assumed America would be a nation of respectable white people, remember, people capable of reason who should be afforded reasonable doubt of wrong doing until it has been proven.

In such a system, anyone sentenced to death is granted UNLIMITED appeals. These appeals must be processed by the judicial system, which means putting very expensive personnel on the case until all the appeals are done. This can take years. Many years. The sentenced person can simply file appeal after appeal, and why wouldn't they? They're going to die if they don't. Some such prisoners don't bother, and accept their fate, but all it takes is a few stubborn ones who insist they are innocent to cost the judicial system millions of dollars a year.

It winds up being cheaper to keep people in prison for life than to put them to death, in aggregate. Feeding a person 3 meals a day for decades is actually far, far cheaper than processing dozens of appeals for less than a decade. Lawyers are expensive.

>>18320346
>people capable of reason who should be afforded reasonable doubt of wrong doing until it has been proven.
i.e proven in a court of law? All you're doing is making the case for lynchings and mob justice.

>>18319635
>if i had a dollar for every story that was just made up about north korea
Hey retard they make these claims themselves, try actually watching the shit from their media like KCNA. North Korea has a long history of attributing absurd supernatural traits to its dictators. In fact you can literally go read their own provided translations of books attributing absurd superhuman traits to NK dictators:
http://korean-books.com.kp/KBMbooks/en/book/politics/20250808172354.pdf
>As for the mysterious natural phenomenon of that day, the Chinese
people said: In Korea there are many books dealing with rare natural
phenomena related to Kim Jong Il. Today’s weather phenomenon is
not irrelevant to it. This can be regarded only as a wonder done by
heaven.
>The Korean people praise General Secretary Kim Jong Il as a man born of heaven, and he is literally a heaven-sent man. This year, the Yangzhou citizens worried much because of the long spell of drought. And the temperature went up to 36℃ in daytime for several days. But on the day when the General Secretary arrived at Yangzhou, much rain fell and the temperature went down, making the local people feel cool and happy. This is not a mere natural phenomenon but a wonder of heaven which recognizes the great man.”

>cartel de los soles
It's an exonym used to describe the real fact that the Venezuelan government is a narcostate. They've been repeatedly caught smuggling drugs. Trump being retarded does not negate the fact that Venezuela is run by drug dealers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcosobrinos_affair

>>18318797
That’s because of lawyer fees, administrative feeds, sourcing of rare restricted substances, transferring the prisoner, fighting against appeals, etc.

>>18319272
That’s not your complaint tho. Your complaint is that shooting/ganging people for literally only the cost of whatever the bullet or the rope is cruel and a war crime or whatever and only the Chinese do it.

They don’t. Many nations do. It’s just the best, cheapest way. Arab nations just have a guy with a big sword cut peoples heads off.

>>18320804
>>18318797
There are cases where the condemned waived his appeals and decided to be executed immediately and his lawyers got butthurt because they wouldn't make any money off filing endless appeals.

>>18320346
last year there were 47 people executed in the US the most since the 2000s

>>18320301
life sentences are kind of pointless. the main aim of prison should be to hold the guy until he's past the age of 50 and starts to slow a bit from age and is less likely to be dangerous. crime is a young man's game and boomers don't commit much.

Today Texas and Florida commit the most executions yet at one time New York led the nation in capital punishment.

>>18320346
the endless appeals shit is a grift for lawyers to make money, it also only started in the post-Furman era. in the 50s or whatever it was six months to a year to execution.

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>>18318794
>Why should society have to pay to house and feed someone who will never again have a chance to contribute to society again?

Because we're constantly seeing _wrongfully convicted_ guys released from prison after X years because the cops, CSI guys, prosecutor, etc. fucked up.

I'm not opposed to capital punishment for any moral reasons (some people are legitimately evil) but the simple fact is that we can't trust the legal system to get it right 100% of the time.

>>18320841
>Because we're constantly seeing _wrongfully convicted_ guys released from prison after X years because the cops, CSI guys, prosecutor, etc. fucked up.
In other words people who obviously did something get out in a technicality because the "innocence project" wants criminals back into the street.

>>18320822
Generally yes, old people aren't very dangerous though still there's exceptions like Larry Singleton.

Studies have shown that black men who murder a white person are 2-3x likely to get life imprisonment or death than the other way around. The system is not fair or impartial, not even close.

>>18320822
>>18320854
Murderers shouldn't get to participate in society again, dead or alive. It's more than just running a probability model for danger.

>>18320859
Have they controlled for re-offenses or any other aggravating factors?

>>18320854
David Spanbauer is another exception I can think of.

>>18320859
cry about it, LBJfag

>>18320848
> cops lied, CSI fucked up, prosecutor played political games, etc.
> get convicted
> later discover that the accused wasn't even in the state at the time of crime
> hurr durr, he should have been executed anyways!

Lets hope you're never convicted of a crime you didn't commit.

>>18320822
>Lets incarcerate someone with a tendecy for antisocial behavior for the better part of their adult life and then cut them loose back into society with no skills, most of their family now passed away, and an even bigger axe to grind with society now.
This is why you see so many people posting information about what judges are letting people off light right before they do some more heinous shit. Its life ending levels of irresponsibility and wishful thinking that keeps allowing the people to re-enter society in any capacity. People will enable a truly staggering amount of evil occure just for the off chance they can get one feel good article written about it that they will forget about in a few days.

>>18318794
trvke

>>18318797
jew lies to pussify society into letting in infinity criminals and then lettign them free after 3 years for raping kids

>>18320901
How about you go with the far more likely outcome and ask yourself how you would feel if a low intelligence psychopath butchered your loved ones after getting released on a technicality by a bunch of "well meaning" bleeding hearts that thought everyone would get together and sing kumbaya after it was done.

>>18320859
TND

>>18320923

How you would feel if a low intelligence psychopath butchered someone and instead of catching and convicting the actual killer, the legal system sentenced YOU to death while the actual killer went on to commit more crimes?

Again, this isn't an emotional moral issue, it's a simple understanding that the legal system cannot get it right 100% of the time.

>>18320953
NTA but This is such a low IQ take.
Guess which of these situations happens way more?

>Noooo we cant kill baby murderers and rapists because 1/100 might have just beaten up the baby instead

>>18320953
>it's a simple understanding that the legal system cannot get it right 100% of the time

Funny you say that because that is exactly my point. The amount of people that are TRULY wrongfully convicted is incredibly low. Objectively speaking which do you think causes more harm, 1000 murderers + 1 innocent incarcerated/executed, or 1000 murderers + 1 innocent man set free.

>>18318794
Amen. There’s no such thing as a life sentence, the life sentence is a death sentences which uses a cruel and unusual execution method.

>>18320859
Good

>>18320953
>what if instead of the system killing you they lock you up in prison for life and close the case
Wow so much better…

>>18320848
Cops lie all the time because the job mainly attracts people with a superiority complex, and they almost always get away with it. Except for the rare Chauvin who gets turned into a political piñata, cops can play Simon says all day long and get a paid holiday if they get caught to cool off.

>>18320969
The problem isn't wrongful convictions, it is persecutions. The government WILL abuse any and all power it is given

>>18320301
>>18321117
It's mostly because the average inmate is very low IQ and too stupid for a lot of work. If you're actually intelligent the prison will find something to do like having you stamp license plates or something.

Copaganda in the media is a very real thing. One example is the meme that lawyers are the most hated profession in America. LOLno. Everyone loves a lawyer, he's the guy who works to get you off the hook or get your sentence reduced. It's cops and DAs that everyone hates 'cause they're the guys who want to lock your ass up and throw away the key.

>>18321329
Alright, anon. What crime did you do? Be honest with us.

>>18318946
Shouldn't be, though. And they should let citizens be the executioner. Make a public spectacle out of it.

>>18319044
Nobody is pretending, Tristan

>>18321293
That kind of dull work is reserved for good behavior inmates of passable IQ. Actually smart inmates are given more clerical work that probably could go to a regular citizen, but because it puts them in close proximity with criminals it's safer to just have an educated innmate do it.

Like helping out in the prison's library, for example.

>>18320818
Yes and most of them spent YEARS on death row before they finally ran out of appeals. Infinite appeals does not mean you can just spam the same appeals every time, you have to actually come up with a semi-plausible reason to appeal each time you make one. That requires a lot of reading up on legal codes to find possible technicalities that could get your case re-heard. These usually have little or no merit at all, but if they're properly filed they have to be properly refuted, which requires expensive legal professional work.

>>18320832
It's always possible to limit an inmate's ability to appeal by limiting his access to documents and reference texts. If he does not have proper access to these things, he has no basis on which he can appeal.

It was found to be a very unlawful practice.

>>18321391
>>18321293
Also they can have you write letters or do paperwork for other inmates since many are nearly illiterate.

>>18321394
>>18320818
There was one guy who'd murdered a woman in 1976 and he was executed just last year. I think there was an uptick in executions because states like (especially) Florida decided to copy the Trump administration's hardcore anti-crime stance.

>>18320969
>The amount of people that are TRULY wrongfully convicted is incredibly low.

This was one was just three days ago:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/chicago-man-to-be-set-free-tuesday-after-judge-overturns-2003-murder-conviction/ar-AA1V6SSI?ocid=BingNewsVerp

Porter was found guilty of murder in 2003 after the fatal shooting of Laymond Harrison during a dice game outside a South Shore elementary school. He was sentenced to 71 years in prison at the Stateville Correctional Center, and for the last 23 years, he’s fought to reclaim his freedom for a crime he says he did not commit.

Porter and his defense team argued the officer who testified during his trial had a questionable background, saying he had a history of misconduct allegations.

Attorneys also said there was never any evidence presented that pointed to Porter as the killer.

In 2018, the Chicago Tribune reported one of Porter’s attorneys, Kathleen Zellner, presented new DNA testing that further proved Porter’s innocence.

According to the DNA testing, $5 bills dropped by the gunman as he fled from the shooting showed Harrison’s DNA on the bills, but Porter’s was nowhere to be found.

That led Zellner to call Porter’s trial a “fundamentally flawed” case some 8 years ago.

>>18321235
>Wow so much better…

You're not dead and there's the possibility of getting out.

If you're executed the day after sentencing, like all the edgy teens here are calling for, you're dead and nobody is going to bother trying to prove your innocence.

Trials are literally a crap shoot, are you willing to bet your LIFE?

>>18321383
That's how you get a botched execution

>>18321329
Yeah entertainment media loves to demonize the rights of the defendant and makes up scenarios where reasonable leniency based on the discretion of the judge or DA leads to a killer striking again. Blue Bloods spread misinformation too. People don't get that in an adversarial system, especially where you have psychopaths working for the state, having crafty, talented defense lawyers is a necessity so there's a balance struck.

>>18320261
Killer cops don't need true crime podcasters to bring their cases to light. They're very rarely prosecuted in the first place and when they are they generally get a grotesque amount of leniency. Like six years for an execution style shooting and parole after three.

>>18318797
>seems to
it does
because of the +tax and +tip

>>18320808
Arab states like Saudi Arabian aren't known for being very civilized either. They have a legal code technically but there's not really established procedures or accountability for the state.

>>18320824
Yeah Virginia used to execute a lot of prisoners too but they recently abolished it.
>>18320923
How common are these cases of grievous re-offenses after someone is unconditionally released on appeal or reexamination? A lot of the time after an appeal they'll just order a retrial, not just let the defendant off scot free

>>18321930
>How common are these cases of grievous re-offenses after someone is unconditionally released on appeal or reexamination?
crime anon has posted about many of them

>>18320261
>Talk to me when Derek Chauvin is released.
Tim Waltz could pardon him tomorrow, but he's afraid of being lynched by ANTIFA if he does.

There was a case Ann Rule wrote about involving a Seattle detective in the 70s (whom she knew personally) who was convicted of blowing away an unarmed dude. In this case the latter happened to have a tape recorder in his coat and recorded the whole encounter, so they had audio of the shooting and proved that it was unprovoked.

>>18318794
>The death penalty is more humane than life-imprisonment
Completely agree with this. Its funny to me how people seething about criminals want to put them to a peaceful rest instead of wanting them to be gang raped for the next 60 years.

Reminder bodycams have shattered the established pro-criminal narratives. None of your sob stories work anymore.

>>18321918
you don't want to be an ex-cop in prison, they have to get put in PC for their own safety and are hated by inmates

>>18322050
Well-known moral beacons are those criminals.

>>18322055
That wasn't a comment on morality, you realize.

>>18322047
You mean the filmed killings of suspects in some cases?

>>18321994
I haven't seen those - you might be thinking of the cases where the initial sentence was short or the parole board made a bad decision

>>18320916
Child rape will get you a very long sentence just about anywhere

>>18318794
why do all of our modern death penalties involve the most bizarre fucking hoops to jump through? oh you have to take three men with special ammunition from exactly 15 feet away behind a wall with their vision blocked so they don't know who actually shot the man, and you have to aim vaguely near the heart and the special ammo will fucking tear apart their insides while it disintegrates every organ in the general vicinity. why not just put one through the soft part of the skull? it's like these penalties are secretly designed to fuck up constantly and cause immense suffering. either do it "morally" and just sedate them with morphine or something until they stop breathing, or stop pretending to be moral at all and kill them in the same manner they killed their victim(s).

>>18319052
>you can't resurrect someone if
there are over 5 million prisoners in the US and only around 2000 of them are on death row at any given time. only a few hundred death row inmates have ever been exonerated in the US, and only a handful of those were actually found innocent of the crime, usually due to DNA testing of old cases. the chance of being wrongfully executed today is approaching zero. I believe the number of death row inmates exonerated for crimes committed after the inception of modern forensic DNA analysis is also around zero. most modern exonerations are commutations of decades-old death penalties to life sentences instead, or weird political shows that came decades or in some cases even centuries after the fact. for instance the most recent exoneration (2024) was of one "Celia", a slave executed in the 1850s for murdering her master. she was purchased as a concubine and had been fulfilling this role for 5 years, even giving birth to at least one child sired by her master, before another slave "George" who was also fucking her talked her into killing the master because he was jealous, so she waited until massah came to the cabin one night and beat him over the head with a large stick until dead, then she attempted to burn his body in the fireplace trying to cover it up. 180 years later she was exonerated because "muh marginalized bipoc slavery rape victim"

>>18322279
>there are over 5 million prisoners in the US and only around 2000 of them are on death row at any given time.

And sentencing them to life in prison with no parole is a minuscule cost.

>the chance of being wrongfully executed today is approaching zero.

But it's not zero.

The greater good is not always more important, but sometimes it is. When it comes to violent crime, it most certainly applies. I would much rather live in El Salvador under Bukele than pre-Bukele, despite it more likely for innocents to be jailed.

>>18322430
The administration is likely fudging the numbers by excluding certain deaths and may have made backroom deals with the gangs.

>>18322279
DNA testing is also only semi-reliable especially in decades old cases where the sample fluids/tissue have probably degraded.

>>18322279
Source for these numbers?

>>18322050
I doubt that the harshness of prison conditions is ever taken into account in sentencing in other cases, except maybe rich people with connections to the judge.

Reminder immigration status is routinely taken into account in sentencing, slimy judges almost always avoid sentences that would entail deportation.

>>18323516
Depends on the offense. Someone convicted of murder isn't getting a conditional discharge. Someone accused of non aggravated misdemeanors might, which can mean that if they comply with the conditions they won't face deportation.

>>18323527
>Someone convicted of murder isn't getting a conditional discharge
He will get merely 3 years in prison instead.

>>18323535
For 1st degree murder? That's unheard of in the US AFAIK. Life is mandatory in some states and routine in others. The likelihood of deportation may be a mitigating factor in sentencing but not to that degree.

>>18322210
iirc Thailand uses a pre-arranged smg to shoot someone through a curtain

>>18324753
I think Taiwan is similar. They anesthetize the person then shoot them in the neck.