File: rma_sucks.png (3.3 MB)

3.3 MB PNG

/gq/ Infographic Emporium:
https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6
Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF

>Last time on /gq/, Botach sold 100 expired plates. Anon wanted to buy a Jinwudun shield. Another one wanted a Jinwudun skirt. I went on a Jinwudun rant. Anon still needs a 50lb battering ram.

>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.151
CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = ICW / non-standalone, DND = do not drop / drop protection is sketchy, ** = military.
>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no M80):
Budget: Hesco T212 or L211
Mid-Range: Hesco M210
High-End: Hesco U210 or U211
>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):
Budget: Expired Hesco 3611C, surp SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001
Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*
High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DND
Elite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^
>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):
Budget: Used Protech 2120-5
Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513
High-End: Tencate CR6450SA or LTC 28780** or LSAPI**
Elite: VelSys PBZSA** or LTC 28791** or Hesco SC3812
Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995) or used Cercom CER-SOPS**^
>Tactical Standalone (M855A1 + M80A1):
Budget: RMA SUCKS
Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI size only!)
High-End: Used LTC 28595**
Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**
Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA
>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):
/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023
Budget: Hesco 4403* (bare minimum)
Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* (+ Level III) or surp ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J preferable, adds M995 / 3x M2AP vs 1x)
High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)
Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND
>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)
Budget: Protech 2230 (fast M2AP, $300/set used)
Budget-Tungsten: Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)
Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P AP) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)
High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)
Elite: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P AP?)

>>64785651
> Jinwudun
You should tell them that they have a lot of fans here and ought to buy an ad.

File: armored boss.png (726.8 KB)

726.8 KB PNG

>>64785688
Yes I agree. We must embrace the new gen of gas station armor companies. Jinwudun, Gilliam, Armored Boss, Loop Circle, Longdick, and Safelife repair safelife replace.

>>64785709
What the fuck is "Armored Boss" and lmao at that AI image.
Also what's Longdick and, come to think of it, why is Aholetech not on your list?

I swear the same faggot makes the OP for every thread on this board.

File: ARMORED BITCH.png (735 KB)

735 KB PNG

>>64785725
Armored Boss is the latest luxury armor brand. Inspired by hit tactical thrillers, such as Boots, Suits, and Emily in Paris, they provide fake gold-clad plates for the more discerning clientele. They primarily sell on eBay and their own storefront: https://armored-boss.com/

>Longdick
Longfri of course.
>why is Aholetech not on your list?
We've been putting our fingers up Aholetech for so long I thought they were getting stale.

File: basedgilliam_transparent.png (393.9 KB)

393.9 KB PNG

>>64785740
>this is how it happened... this is how the board died.

Hey, fellas. Total beginner here, looking for my first plate carrier. I'm looking for one that I can just buy and run with; comes with mag pouches and as close as you can get to a full kitted out setup. Came across the Vakarian and it seemed like exactly what I wanted, but it's sold out. Any other suggestions? I want something in around the $300 or less range, chinese is ok as long as it wont disintegrate. I'm 5'10, 220 and looking to run large steel plates btw.

>>64785988
reminder that if you support rebel raiders you have to tell Braxton McCoy that he is a stupid faggot

File: spall.png (351.1 KB)

351.1 KB PNG

>>64785988
>I'm 5'10, 220 and looking to run large steel plates btw.
No you don't. Steel Level III plates weigh more than Level IV ceramics, spall and fragment bullets regularly, and fail against garden variety ammunition like M193. If you run a thicker spall coating or a stronger plate to mitigate those issues, you are now running an 8lb+ plate (for a 10x12) that is heavier than Level IV ceramic and far less protective still.
There are 7.5lb Level IV + III Protech 2230s for sale on Gunbroker for as little as $300/set. Police surplus.

That Vakarian doesn't look half bad if you just really want a budget turn-key setup. Wait for it to come back in stock unless you need armor today. If it's what you want, it's what you want. No need to spend money on something that's not exactly what you need when that's cash that should be going towards better plates than steel.

File: Screenshot 2026-01-22 at 11-15-01 STRAUNCHER MODULAR PLATE CARRIER - UR-TACTICAL.png (470.4 KB)

470.4 KB PNG

Anyone here have experience with UR Tactical/OPS? specifically their plate carriers, pouches, and placards

>>64785749
I find it amusing that she’s protecting herself but not the kids

>>64785749
Lady needs to stop huffing rem oil, her bow-legged crotch goblins were collecting disability before they even get a birth certificate.

just bought 400 dollars worth of tactical shit on temu.

Am i fucked

>>64786784
What did you buy? I mean that could have been an ECH or a pair of good plates but let's see.

>>64785709
What a horrible einner jacket. It better be bullet proof.

>>64786195
The claim optimal performance, so it must be pretty good. It's in the name.

>>64785227
Famous now.

>>64785988
>I'm 5'10, 220
You sound really muscley.

>>64786255
When your oxygen mask drops, you are to protect yourself, then your children. You can't helpthem if your dead. I give her a pass.

>>64787060
Only the vest and it's IIIA / HG2. tops.
>>64787131
Maybe she should have tried getting a job so she could afford Jinwudun and a shield large enough to protect her family.
Armored Boss is kinda cringe.

>>64787117
Lifting, BJJ, childhood labor. I’ve got a slight gut and mild gyno but it’s workable.

File: s-l400.jpg (48.6 KB)

48.6 KB JPG

>>64787886
>she could afford Jinwudun and a shield
Having just binged the 'Vikings' series on Netflix, i am all for seeing her in a ballistic skirt and shield. And don't tempt me to post another chain mail bikini, because I will.

>>64787987
What's your mile time? Cardio matters.

>>64787998
For the record, the Jinwudun skirt makes it look like you've got MAJOR hips.
>chain mail bikini
coomer

Daily reminder standalone multi-hit 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP protection (stronger than M993 / XSAPI) can be yours for only $314 / 8.3lb a plate. Straight from Gilliam's Garage.
https://gilliamtechnicalservices.com/products/model-8002-max-heavy-tungsten-rf3-silicon-carbide-ceramic-armor-plate

>>64788007
My cardio is terrible, but I’m realistic about it. After highschool I started getting persistent and debilitating leg cramps, thought it was bad nutrition, turns out I have severe compartment syndrome in both legs from getting too much muscle in them. Got a fasciectomy on one leg so far, waiting on the other.

File: chainmail female.jpg (38.1 KB)

38.1 KB JPG

>>64787998
>because I will
>>64788010
>coomer
I warned you.

>>64788467
8.3 lbs is pretty hefty, and $314 is steep, but I guess for a multi-hit, ceramic tile array and a sewn in trauma pad, that's probably one of the better deals I've seen.

>>64788552
You can't beat $628 a set for M993 / Swiss P AP protection. It's only $200 more versus a pair of Hesco 4403s. Weight-wise actually lighter than basic Level IV Highcom 4S17Ms, despite measuring 10.3x12.3x1.2, if said Highcom was actually 10x12 and not nominally sized with bottom cutouts. The real drawbacks are that the Gillie is single curve and about 1.2" thick. The next option up for the same threats is the Adept Colossus at $1,280 a set. Double the price.
>>64788501
Isn't that the pic from last thread?
>>64788481
All the more reason to not use steel plates.

File: Screenshot_20260122_160940_Gallery.jpg (485.6 KB)

485.6 KB JPG

>>64785651
I made barricade penetrating CS rounds for my 40mm

>>64788552
Forgot to bring this up. For comparison's sake, the steel AR500 A4 plate is 8.75lb, $500 a set (with build up coat) and is not even rated for M855A1. The 8002 is in a really good space market-wise.
https://www.ar500armor.com/products/a4-level-iii-alloy-body-armor/?
>>64788810
Nice. What's the recipe?

File: Screenshot_20260122_160847_Gallery.jpg (649.1 KB)

649.1 KB JPG

>>64788815
That round was actually a fluke, it was supposed to be a less lethal CS impact round lmao. Definitely stretching the "less"

The intentional barricade rounds are a copy of the DefTech "Ferret" that a guy I know made and I modified.
Hyper PLA, 75% infill, Boland special effects .38s&w blank as a launching charge, M212 chalk round casing.
62g at 479fps and it doesn't stop for man nor god.

I have enough CS powder to load about 11,000 of them.

>>64788824
Very nice.

>>64788786
>pic from last thread
>With the lights out, it's less dangerous
>Here we are now, entertain us
Now I know how Kurt felt.

File: Ferret barrier testing.mp4 (1.7 MB)

1.7 MB MP4

>>64788841
Thanks, they're kinda terrifying, imagine getting hit with a 1.6" wide shotgun slug the fills you with tear gas

>>64788875
That's one way to get around body armor. Just gas them out and hope they didn't have the foresight to bring a mask. Once they're down coughing like they've got terminal lumbago, finish them off with QUAKEMAKER 12 GAUGE 2.5OZ HEAVY SLUGS TO THE FEMUR. YEEHAW PARDNER.
https://seismicammo.com/product/2-5-oz-12-gauge-slug-single-box/

>>64788844
Checked. Kurt needs some Gilliam 8002s. Gotta be honest, the moment these get more credibility than a lab report and one affiliate video, I'll probably be jumping on a pair myself. Just as a contingency set in case homebrew tungsten AP ammo becomes a problem or there's widespread M1158 falling off trucks.

File: 1754885922530.png (628.1 KB)

628.1 KB PNG

Highcom Striker LIGHTWEIGHT ($849)
or
EXFIL SL Ballistic ($1694)
I agree with buy once cry once but I'm having a hard time justifying spending an extra $800 to save half a pound. I guess the retention system is also better but still I can get that and d4 pads and still save $600.

>>64785227
If you want to carry pills in the same bag you carry blister tape and band-aids, little 1oz bottles work well. You can kill the rattle by stuffing the bottle with food-safe filler like a paper towel. If the pills are in a blister pack card, just stick one of the cards in there.

Ex: https://www.sks-bottle.com/product/306302.html

>>64789722
This doesn't answer your question directly, but Highcom has been playing very dirty over the past year or two. Between their bullshit with the 4S16, 4SAS4, their plate sizing everywhere, the 3S9M's B-32 protection or lack thereof, their RCH helmet not actually being as protective as advertised by their vendors, and more, they're a cunt hair away from getting shitlisted.
Just an FYI, Team Hillary has a overaall better reputation and part of that is why certain manufacturers charge what they charge. Otherwise you can go look at a Jinwudun helmet for a lot less than the Highcom. Will it work? I don't know.

>>64789722
The old pasta has never been more relevant.
> Phase Zero:
> Buy surplus ACH in your size
> Phase one (non-optional):
> Replace pads (PGD is a really good choice here)
> Replace retention system (Ops-Core H Nape)
> Phase Two, in order of priority (optional, if you have extra money and are not /pfg/):
> Add rails (Ops-Core only, fuck Mlok.)
> Add shroud (Wilcox only, the others can have compatibility issues)
> Add ceramic rifle applique (HHV-Adept)
> Add helmet cover/scrim (lots of options, check Beez)
> Then you will have a helmet that's in a lot of ways better than an off the shelf Ops-Core or TW at about half the price.
There's literally no way this doesn't turn out 10x better than the Highcom in every way that matters. Comfort, protection, retention, accessory mounting.

>>64789722
Or you could just buy a Militech high-cut which is probably the exact same thing as the "Made in Korea" Highscum.

>>64790464
Yeah I'm thinking based. If it's a gen 2 ACH it'll be really light.

>>64789686
>the moment these get more credibility than a lab report and one affiliate video
Then they will be priced at market value. The beta testing/LRIP phase to the time to buy. Unfortunately, the formula may evolve and you are stuck with a maybe.
>Just as a contingency set in case homebrew tungsten AP ammo
Did you ever follow the APanon threads? I got the final version of the PDF, buy 4chan won't allow PDF upload.

>>64789723
>little 1oz bottles work well. You can kill the rattle by stuffing the bottle with food-safe filler like a paper towel.
All this was solved a century ago with The Pill Box. Now any drugstore will have travel pill containers and you can still use a cotton ball, just like the olden days. You can ask your gf for a cotton ball, oh sorry...

File: 8002.png (709.8 KB)

709.8 KB PNG

>>64790961
Gilliam's plates generally are not priced at "market value" - they're mostly composed of Chinese materials with the exception of the monolithic plates using Bitossi ceramic.
Similarly, even though Militech has been around for more than a decade, they haven't jacked up their prices, aside from a $50 customs fee, even though they're at this point well-established. Chinese or Chinese-material shops with minimum overhead can deliver armor a lot cheaper than domestic manufacturers can. It's true that Gilliam just jacked up the price on the 9969, but that was likely due to factors outside of his control. He gets the strike faces from Adept, the plate likely shares a strike face with the Adept Archon, and Adept is not going to have a plate that delivers 85% of the Archon's performance for less weight for only $330 a plate versus $580. Now the 9969 is $550, which is too damn high. The 8002 uses basic SiC and is not subject to the TiB2-SiC monopoly held by Adept.
Nobody can get NIJ certification until 0101.07's CPL is active, so the "beta testing" period will last indefinitely until then.
>Unfortunately, the formula may evolve and you are stuck with a maybe
Of course. Gilliam has a tendency to tweak his plates on an almost daily basis. I've clocked half a dozen modifications to the specs and price of the Gilliam 9969 for example. If you buy a pair of 8002s now, he could come out with an improved model tomorrow and you're left holding the bag on obsolescent plates.
>Did you ever follow the APanon threads? I got the final version of the PDF, buy 4chan won't allow PDF upload.
I did, but don't have the PDF anymore. Any chance you could dropbox a link here?

>>64790464
I do have an ACH and i was considering this.
4d pads: $100
TW retention: $160
wilcox shroud: $75
arc rails: $115
ACH highcut conversion:$150

Its current shell weight is 3lb and even with the highcut conversion it'll only be a shell weight of 2.5 at best. So i spend $600 and still have a heavy helmet which i feel like I'd eventually get annoyed with.

>>64791125
Military helmets are held to actual, consistent standards, unlike NIJ that doesn't have an actual IIIA for helmets, or BFD / BFS requirements, or certification. That's right, "IIIA" for helmets is whatever the manufacturer says it is. NIJ's helmet standard, 0106.01, is horrifically out of date to the point where the only thing you've got is the manufacturer's reputation. Highcom's reputation is... not great.
I'd upgrade the ACH or maybe keep your eyes peeled for an ACH Gen 2. Also, it's debatable whether the high-cut conversion will compromise protection. If it's not done and sealed properly you risk environmental degradation.

Damn, per Apex can't ship solutions LTC just discontinued the Level IV 26605.
https://www.apexarmorsolutions.com/product-page/two-hoplite-26605-triple-curve-level-4-sapi-plates-nij-06-certified?

The only recent plate with the distinction of being suspended twice is... kaput. Apparently there will be a replacement but no ETA.

File: IMG_3740.jpg (1.2 MB)

1.2 MB JPG

>>64791125
>>64791162
Old pic. I need to be assed to get hangers and finish the damn thing. I’m using a unity shroud I had laying around. I’m ghetto maxxing though and I hope prayers are enough to stop the bullets. Pretty comfortable though.

>>64791656
Have you thought about a pair of IIIA ear protectors? They make up for the loss in coverage with a high cut and Militech has em on sale for $120 a pair. Add $50 for prepaid import fee.
https://mili-tech.com/products/militech%C2%AE-nij-iiia-0108-01-ballistic-ear-protector-for-fast-high-cut-sf-ballistic-helmets?

>>64791785
I didn’t know that was a thing honestly. Maybe not for this helmet but if I go with something not jank, it is an option. The goal for this one was just a slightly more sturdy and comfortable helmet that’s not a $$$ glorified bicycle helmet (that’s same shad @ TW). I still haven’t forgotten that 18650 pvs14 mod, so keeping it as light as I can for now

>>64791785
>IIIA ear protectors
Tbh, they look flimsy. But could be hot glued ICW SEPT2 Eyetalian helm for magnum Airsoft grade defeat.

>>64792208
They're aramkd so they're going to be thin, also single strike only against 9x19mm or .44 magnum.
>>64792185
Hardly jank my man

>>64791125
The "Highcom Striker LIGHTWEIGHT" helmet's weight is probably fraudulent, like "shell weight" or something. The actual helmet weight, with rails and everything, is definitely north of 2.2 pounds.
Also, I've tried both, and the new PGD pads absolutely mog the 4D pads that cost twice as much. It's not even close. Also the HHV lattice pads are extremely nice, because they never get sweaty or stinky and you can literally just wash them in your sink. 4D pads were nice twenty years ago, but they're way behind the times.

>>64792245
Considering it's the same company whose 10x12 shooters plates are actually 9.25x11.5, would anyone be surprised there are fuckfuck games with their helmettos?

>>64792229
>single strike only against 9x19mm
Almost tempting to do a Go-fund-me for a live stream demo wearing it and putting a bullet to your ear. How "hardly jank" are they? Could they be trusted playing Russian roulette with a Beretta 92?

>>64792267
3A is pretty easy to do you can make 3a stuff yourself at home. I'm sure china the number 1 manufacture of everything in the entire world right now can do it. Why do you feel the need to freak out about it?

>>64792267
>Could they be trusted playing Russian roulette with a Beretta 92?
Are we talking a contact shot or some standoff? I don't want to see this red room shit on liveleak pal

>>64792284
NTA, but the largest argument against Chinese body armor is quality control. These ear pro things are advertised to NIJ 0108.01 (which is the correct standard for this), so no compliant product list and no FIT randomized testing. You have only Militech's word.

>>64792357
Have we seen a lot of issues with Chinese body armor from militech? Ive seen a lot of dudes shoot china made armor and don't recall ever seeing one not work especially from a known brand. Its been around for a long time at this point do we need to spaz out everytime someone mention china armor or other china made products? Not that you spazzed out but the other anon.

File: stoopid.png (2.9 MB)

2.9 MB PNG

>>64792400
>Have we seen a lot of issues with Chinese body armor from militech?
Anecdotally, yes.
1. For example, they used to offer a Level III applique plate you could slap onto just about any IIIA helmet and it would boost your protection to 7.62x51mm M80. Buffman tested it and the backface signature would probably remove some IQ points. Maybe stick to Western manufacturers for 7.62x51 rated helmets.
2. Many of Militech's plates incorporate cheat rings to save weight. These are often pretty minor, but mean the plate still does not provide edge to edge protection. Some are worse than others.
3. Militech's plates tend to omit drop testing in their actual laboratory test reports. They do fine in Buffman and other youtuber testing (exceptionally well, actually) but it must be kept in mind those youtubers are affiliates. Buff recently got busted cherry-picking results for that Turtle Xtreme plate. IIRC, he tested seven, only showed one. Youtubers could technically just keep shooting plates until they get good results.
>Ive seen a lot of dudes shoot china made armor and don't recall ever seeing one not work especially from a known brand
Buff shot an American Blast Level IV and it failed straight up, but that's garbage and it would be an insult to compare Militech to that trash. Mark my words, RMA will come off the shitlist before American Blast does.

>Its been around for a long time at this point do we need to spaz out everytime someone mention china armor
Not necessarily spaz out, but treat it with some caution and do your homework. You should always do your homework, because you can get fucked by American-made armor all the same. RMA is inferior to Militech straight up, for example. Militech's RF3 plates kill the Highcom 4SAS4, and I hate to say it, even kill trusted old guard plates like the 4SAS7.

>>64792245
Since you recommend PGD pads what about PGD ARCH GEN 3? $684 with unity shroud (I hear the stock shroud is not great). Since the pads an retension system are nice they probably dont need to be replaced. From what i can tell they arent chinesium.

>>64792229
Danke, I will be posting it finished as I can. Took a side tangent on ak’s and am currently building the ultimate amd dumpster fent gun.

>>64792229
>>64793031
And I forgot - how does that front plate fit to the helmet?

>>64793036
The armored appliques? Usually velcro.

>>64793002
It's a pretty lame helmet. Shitty construction, shitty knock-off shroud, shitty knock-off rails, shitty knock-off dial retention system (and those are never good anyway), and basically zero performance data. The ONLY thing they have that's good is the 10-pad helmet padding kit, which is legitimately the most comfy in the world. It's a great aftermarket upgrade, but I wouldn't bother with their helmets.

Do we have a consensus on the IHPS / NG-IHPS?

>>64793339
It fucking sucks, also its "rifle resistance" is a total meme.

>>64793421
Elaborate

>>64793434
Literally everything about that helmet is shit. "Proprietary rails", construction, pads, build quality, performance, you name it. I could go into detail, but dude it's just not worth it.
They should have issued the ACH Gen II. BTW, this is the consensus opinion in Ukraine, too, where the most popular helmets are lightweight ACH types.

>>64793457
They apparently did.
https://www.asdnews.com/news/defense/2025/11/12/gentex-secures-3rd-year-option-its-advanced-combat-helmet-generation-ii-contract-worth-384m

File: IHPS Rear.jpg (29.5 KB)

29.5 KB JPG

>>64793434
>>64793457
I'll elaborate a little bit further. The IHPS is what you get when you chase a specsheet without thinking about how the end product comes together.
> W-we need pads that are higher-performance vs. blunt impact than the ACH pads!
So they got "higher-performance" pads, but they're hard as rocks and literally everybody hates them. The military is now going back to the old ACH-style softer pads.
> W-we need rifle resistance -- we need it so badly, we'll get rid of the BFD requirements!
So the IHPS will stop a 7.62x39mm lead core round (lol) but BFD will be totally catastrophic. It's even catastrophic vs. 9mm FMJ and .44 Magnum, as various Youtubers have regularly demonstrated.
> W-we need rails, but we don't want to pay licensing fees!!
So they designed their own, which have zero compatibility with everybody's stuff. Good luck finding accessories for it. Absolutely retarded.
> W-we need it to fit female soldiers who wear their hair in buns!
So they cut away the nape of the helmet entirely. The helmet rear ends at fucking eye level, with the back of your skull hanging out. Picrel is an official Army marketing image, lol.
> W-we need.
And I could go on all day. The helmet was designed by bureaucrats chasing a target that only ever existed on paper, and the end result is one of the worst helmets to ever exist.

>>64793226
>>64793457
>>64793610
Well that settles it. Solid info, thanks.

File: rch.png (412.2 KB)

412.2 KB PNG

All excellent info on the IHPS. On another note, pic related is the situation with the Highcom RCH I mentioned earlier. Basically, Apex is doing the usual and is massively fluffing up the RCH's protective capabilities. Highcom's numbers are really no different than a basic ECH as pointed out by Neetmaster (?) months ago.
Anyone who is spending $2.5k for one of these, going off actual manufacturer numbers and not a guy who rates boron carbide plates like the LTC 26310 for M995 (this is egregious absent a test report because M995 has a reputation for piercing pure B4C plates - such as early ESAPIs), is seemingly getting played. I'm seeing ECHs on sale on fleabay for as little as $350. Don't waste two grand plus on this penny stock helmet.

>>64793610
>So the IHPS will stop a 7.62x39mm lead core round (lol) but BFD will be totally catastrophic.
Pretty common problem with pure PE helmets. PE has a higher V0 than Aramid but much greater BFD. Hybrid Aramid/PE seems to be the way forward. Or just pure aramid and either accept it isn't stopping rifle rounds or deal with the added weight of an applique.

>>64793957
I agree. Bad news though, the GEN II ACH uses PE while the ~30% heavier original ACH uses Aramid, so the same principle applies and means the original ACH may actually be preferable. Bad news again, the IHPS claims to meet current ACH requirements, which is IMO proof enough the ACH Gen II is also BFD-deficient.
The reason why PE has a higher v0 is that PE has a lower areal density, allowing you to use more layers for the same weight, or less weight and "equivalent" (major emphasis on the quotes there) strength. If we look to body armor, aramid-backed plates like the Protech 2230 and Aratech IV actually claim significantly higher v0s than many PE-backed Level IVs. However, they're heavy.
Apparently ESAPIs REV. G and onward switched to a boron carbide-silicon carbide hybrid ceramic to pick up M995 protection, then used PE backers instead of aramid to make up for the ceramic's areal density increase. I'm curious if a REV. E or F ESAPI would exhibit lower BFD than a G through J against M2AP. That would be a good way to put aramid vs PE in a head to head.
>Hybrid Aramid/PE seems to be the way forward.
Absolutely 100% in agreement here. Last I checked M5 Fiber (PIPD) is still a no-go due to degradation and manufacturing issues rather akin to Zylon, so we're stuck with incrementally better aramid and PE.
>or deal with the added weight of an applique.
Unfortunately that's the only way to go. Boron carbide is costly but a hell of a lot more efficient than PE at this, especially against the "E Threat" the appliqued IHPS was SUPPOSED to be rated for originally (7.62x54R 7N1).

File: br5+ plates.png (3.7 MB)

3.7 MB PNG

Hey Neetmaster / Rusanon, pic related shows the "BR5+" Granit plates shot in those test reports from a few threads back.
1. Top left is the one shot with a 12.7x108mm at 559m/s.
2. Two others top row are the .338-tested plates.
3. Third row left is the 9x 5.45x39mm 7N39 plate. 7N39 really isn't that great of a penetrator (it's like Nammo AP4) so this isn't really contentious.
4. Third row middle is the 6x 7.62x54R 7N37 plate. For those that don't know, 7N37 is a basically "legendary" tungsten AP round that defeated the Adept Colossus in a Buffman test and is purpose-designed to kill XSAPIs. It has a unique reputation as an armor-killer since the start of the Ukraine thing in 2014.
I'm seeing white bits of ceramic, so it looks like these are indeed aluminum oxide and not silicon carbide as originally thought. Any thoughts on the shot spacing protocol?

>>64785999
who?

>>64795143
ya mudda

This really needed an ai op pic... or did we all get three days from that ice agent gear queer thread

>>64795143
online drama faggotry don't worry about it

>>64795143
>>64797898
I did some googling. Basically McCoy's a vet who called rebel raiders, also a vet-owned business, East Asian drop shipped trash.
It's the classic repeat of the "you need to buy all-American" versus alibabamaxxer dialectic.
Like with most dialectics, the truth is somewhere in the middle and you can absolutely buy well-made (vietnamese, in this case) stuff from Asia. You just have to pick and choose your battles.

File: VS battle.png (468.9 KB)

468.9 KB PNG

>>64795143

File: 9.11.png (2 MB)

2 MB PNG

>>64797968

>>64797967
no idea who those people are, dont intend to google
go engagement farm elsewhere

File: cbjjjj.png (237.8 KB)

237.8 KB PNG

>>64798009
Ok saar I engagement farm now
Biggest development in small arms in the past two years, still being slept on.

The swedes have made 9mm sabot that feeds reliably and doesn't keyhole.
>https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=90ECrL_4GPc [Embed]

Very quickly military issue side arms with quick change barrels will be converted to CBJ, given they're only a backup weapon, would see very limited rounds fired, and would legitimately need to defeat body armour it's a no brainer.

And the other thing you can expect is that misappropriated CBJ from Ukraine will be smuggled into the US as a cop killer

File: 1768870832353731m.jpg (91.1 KB)

91.1 KB JPG

Cold weather jacket recs?

I need an upgrade from my off brand real tree jacket to something decent for late season snow goose hunting and other winter activities. Been looking at Kuiu, Skre and first lite but I want to know what I'm on for before dropping $500 - $800 on one coat.

>>64798022
>smuggled into the US as a cop killer
>ther ought to be a law!

>>64798025
>Kuiu
Top, but top pricing. Sign up for email alerts for 20-40% off.

File: chazz.png (1.8 MB)

1.8 MB PNG

>>64798111
Checked. Contrary to decades-old fearmongering, "cop killer" bullets are consistently no shows in actual recorded incidents. Of course, that's all liable to change and people should be prepared for that. Ergo, you can daily drive whatever armor is suitable for your area, but if assclowns suddenly bring out black tip it won't ever hurt to have a pair of tungsten-rated IV+ in the closet.

>pic unrelated, I was looking over neo-chaz's shit and having a laugh

File: flatlinefiberco.png (104 KB)

104 KB PNG

Most of my gear is in vietnam tiger stripes
can't find a dump pouch i like that matches and can be attached UNDER my mag pouches like the flatlinefiberco
should I get black or ranger green for pouches and stuff that I can't get in tiger stripe? There's lots of black on VTS so I was thinking that wouldn't look too out of place.
I know black sticks out under nods but there's already a ton of black on the tiger stripe stuff

>>64798503
>I know black sticks out under nods but there's already a ton of black on the tiger stripe stuff
Don't worry about it. If you're genuinely up against nods, you're also up against thermals. Black is kino.

File: atn thermals.png (107.2 KB)

107.2 KB PNG

Daily reminder not to buy thermals from ATN or any other manufacturer with wifi / bluetooth capability.

>>64798503
Shepherd Defense has a dump+mag combo that also comes in tigerstripe, might work for what you're looking for

>>64798702
I'm not advocating to buy them because their prices look awful, but you can just not connect the device to a network or bluetooth connection.

File: 20240716_080952-scaled.jpg (808.3 KB)

808.3 KB JPG

>>64798718
Forgot img

>>64798722
The issue is not just that it can transmit, it's also that it can receive orders and can in theory be backdoored against you.
A lot of radios are the same way, and can be "remote stun / remote killed" from afar.

>>64797918
pretty much
rebel raiders is based and has never hidden the fact that he gets his fabric overseas

File: THE CLOAK.png (200.4 KB)

200.4 KB PNG

>>64798741
I get McCoy's got that real world experience and all that, but "no chinesium allowed!" is a take that ran out of gas in 2015. Speaking of China, I just ordered a pimp cloak for my platecarrier. Will let you guys know how it is.

>>64798737
>receive orders
The most likely thing that happened is that the people who used them connected to their app on their cell phone which collects data. These devices aren't radios which are actively receiving on channels and these guys aren't going to spend the money to put cellular transmitters/receivers in there. In fact the app is even mentioned at the bottom of that screenshot.

>>64798893
>The most likely thing that happened is that the people who used them connected to their app on their cell phone which collects data.
Correct. That is what happened. A lot of them got jacked because they were either breaking ITAR and taking the thermals out of country or because they were hunting outside of lawful hours. They double fucked up because they brought both the scope AND their cell phone.
>These devices aren't radios which are actively receiving on channels
They do however allow remote viewing from the app, so they can actively receive if paired. It is very likely there is a backdoor so they can be remotely paired.
>In fact the app is even mentioned at the bottom of that screenshot.
Yes, and that's where the backdoor would be.

The other moral of the story is to not bring your cell phone if you're doing funky shit. The risk of a backdoor with the scope is nonetheless still there.

>>64798904
>so they can actively receive if paired
That uses bluetooth protocol.
>breaking ITAR
Since when does ITAR prevent you from traveling with your equipment?

>>64798942
>That uses bluetooth protocol.
Concern is whether there's a way to backdoor into that, not what protocol it uses. The feds had ways to remotely view CRT TVs to see if people were watching underage porn. I'm sure they have a master key to most consumer-grade thermal scopes' software.
>Since when does ITAR prevent you from traveling with your equipment?
Unlawful export of a controlled device, namely a thermal scope in this case, but can also extend to things like night vision and body armor equal to or above Level IV.

File: battle shit.png (1.5 MB)

1.5 MB PNG

Unrelated, as of two years ago Ukraine and Israel both stopped taking Botach's battle steel plates as donations. Source is Tac11, which is technically a competitor but not really because they exist on opposite ends of the price spectrum, so do what you will with that information.

>>64798948
>The feds had ways to remotely view CRT TV
>its real
The game really was rigged from the start wtf lmao. Its so over

>>64798956
Probably due to lack of drop protection. Its just straight ceramic and not little tiles either I think.

File: tv.png (2.5 MB)

2.5 MB PNG

>Van Eck phreaking
Feds hate him! Learn how to stop the feds with this one weird trick!

File: atyme.png (882.1 KB)

882.1 KB PNG

>>64798972
Would appear this is the Highcom 4SAS4 of TVs. Comes out of the box fucked. Might be worth going to the goodwill and getting a dumb LCD from ~2008.
>>64798960
Come to think of it, my old Raytheon PALM thermal uses a micro-CRT display. Yikes. Can somebody track down that anon who paid $2,000 for a twenty year old Raytheon W1000-9 because the feds couldn't backdoor into it, and tell him the feds can in fact backdoor into it?
>>64798970
I agree. The thing with Puccia is that their threats are either below Level IV or above Level IV, they don't have a clear M2AP analogue. Odds are probably decent the plates were compromised by handling / conditioning and the damage was enough to get B-32 API through. On the other hand, if 7N37, BS-40, 7N51, etc whacked it then that's not on the plate.

File: bag.png (2.4 MB)

2.4 MB PNG

Can anyone ID this backpack?

File: magpouch.png (200 KB)

200 KB PNG

Does anyone know what this is called or where I can find another one?
It is a mag pouch that sticks to the inside of a plate carrier cummerbund, has velcro on one side and is padded on the other.

File: tkrx9rumso6b1.jpg (137.5 KB)

137.5 KB JPG

Does anyone make a clone of these or similar? My googlefu isn't getting me anything. Even better if the buttons are replaced with velcro.

>>64799001
Rigad Backpack Map Pack 3.0?
https://www.rigad.com/backpack-map-pack-3-0-husar
>>64799006
Warrior Assault DCS Radio Velcro Pouch? Seems to be very popular in Ukraine.
https://epicentrk.ua/shop/mplc-pidsumok-dla-radiostancii-pid-kamerband-warrior-assault-dcs-radio-velcro-pouch-multicam-1f01154d-4d00-6a8a-932f-97047f511593.html

>>64799048
Something similar-ish here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285519522668

File: trs.png (647.3 KB)

647.3 KB PNG

>>64799050
Thank you! I might buy that bag, looks great.

>>64799069
I'm really looking for something identical to the picture. I'm trying to be able to pull the backpack on and off myself, so I don't want to have the straps dangle at all, I want the buckle straight off the molle. Picture is my cummberbund with where I'm trying to get a buckle.

File: jinwudun lumberjack.png (632.3 KB)

632.3 KB PNG

>>64785688
I emailed Jinwudun at support@jinwudun.com and they haven't gotten back to me.

File: 24382903481230.jpg (179.5 KB)

179.5 KB JPG

Go birds
https://youtu.be/yEhcuRsfE9Q?t=7

>>64799083
Looked again, I'm striking out on the buckles other than Eagle repair kits like previously linked. Maybe DIY something with swift clips and zip ties? Ghetto but may work.

jesus christ those jews that own crye tripled the price of the jpc in like 2 years

>>64798942
>>breaking ITAR
>Since when does ITAR prevent you from traveling with your equipment
>>64798904
>breaking ITAR and taking the thermals out of country
In the US, ITAR and thermals go together like peas and carrots.

>>64798737
>A lot of radios are the same way, and can be "remote stun / remote killed" from afar
Ah, the famous US kill switch. This one actually kills you.

>>64799215
No they haven't, the JPC was 210 bucks when I bought mine nearly a decade ago, its now 250. Idk what the 2.0 was on release, but it was always more expensive than the 1.0 and its now 290, which roughly tracks.

>>64799695
the 1.0 was 90 bucks a couple years ago

>>64799703
I would gladly get a couple of these for $90 over the 2.0 @$200.

>“Body fat is the only piece of gear I can’t leave at home - and unlike my puffy jacket, it never seems to lose its loft.” — Anonymous

>>64785988
Buy a Condor and rebuild it. With an hour of work all it's problems can be fixed and that's purchase plus an hour at your job in cost. Stitch with fishing line and build up your on body kit, into 3 day kit into 7 day kit, etc.
You will end up building it all for you anyway and base Condor fabric is fine.

>>64799905
I regret not getting one heavily

>>64800036
>Stitch with fishing line
You do know there is Kevlar thread available in coyote and other colors?

>>64798022
>past two years
>designed 20 years ago
4/10 b8 made me respond

File: KS_Shotball3_V1_01_20_26_vm6mlw.jpg (600.5 KB)

600.5 KB JPG

Has anyone ever gotten something good out of a Kommandstore gumball?

>>64799703
That was a clearance sale on uspatriottactical, not their actual price.
That's how I got mine

>>64800816
I think that's felix steiner's assault and they're doing one last try at pushing this meme round.

>>64798760
Looking forward to a follow up anon

>>64800824

Not really, its just a way for them to shovel Inventory.

Not to mention, they've kind of had a shit track record with their night vision.

Toss it in the Google and youll see. Not to mention handing over customer info to the ATF.

>>64801117
You got it. I promise not to dip like the guy who bought a pair of the expired Hesco 4600s from Botach and said he would shoot them, but uh, either bailed or got hit with a preemptive C&D.
Here's the cloak:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256810262783880.html?

File: nvd helm.jpg (18.8 KB)

18.8 KB JPG

>>64798760
Sweet! Browse thrift shops in the nice part of town for furs to replace the acrylic collar.

>>64801163
Good idea. I'm thinking black on black and some more fur on the bottom. I'll buy a white Cadillac DTS with gold rims and a cane.
I need a tactical pimp cane anybody got a good one?

What about this fifty dollar all black katana from amazon for a pimp cane?
https://www.amazon.com/LQDSDJ-Japanese-Hand-Forged-Ferrous-Samurai/dp/B0CD825D1K/

Could be useful. Pimpin' aint ever been easy on these streets. But now it's damn near impossible. The johns are wearing kevlar!

File: Screenshot_20260125_122443_Samsung Internet.jpg (1.5 MB)

1.5 MB JPG

>>64801181
>more fur on the bottom.
Fur or heavier leather trim with studded rivets would give it a nice drape and weight in the breeze.
>img 2 second search

>>64801260
I'm liking that black PU trim with Studs. Gonna go medieval on these tight ass johns go birds.

File: Screenshot_20260125_125628_Gallery.jpg (772.1 KB)

772.1 KB JPG

>>64801270
Go down the cape split front and hem. Add raccoon tails for max Zathras vibe.

>>64801352
I've seen that guy selling fentadope on the million dollar blocks of Kensington Avenue.

Also I need this:
https://surplus.botach.com/rip-ram-breaching-forcible-entry-device-police-trade/

>>64801372
>fentadope
>whadis?
>google fentadope
>suicide hotline first result
Tfw.

>>64801417
Third strongest drug in Kensington bro. Shit's nasty. I fear for philly trash sniper. IIIA soft armor isn't rated for those needles.

i juat shit myself

>>64801515
>IIIA soft armor isn't rated for those needles.
He'll probably just freeze to death, winter storm warning is out.

File: RUSSIAN EQ.png (963.5 KB)

963.5 KB PNG

>>64801547
8-12 inches of snow. If he's got 10th level Russian all-season he'll be fine. Talk to Rusanon to learn more.
>>64801542
Need some new johns? These are rated for fragmentation as well as anal threats.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/306725909357?

Also some armor related news.
1. The Tencate CR-6450SA is the same plate as the AT Armor STOP-BZ(IP) if anyone has those still lying around.
2. The Tencate CR-6400SA is the STOP-BZ original model.
3. There is a discrepancy between the CR-6450SA's spec sheet, which omits 7.62x51mm M80, and how vendors actually rate the plate. Answer is that it does stop M80 but it may somewhat exceed 44mm BFD, which is a fail in NIJ land.
4. The VelSys PBZSA has been around since 2015 and apparently stops M80 cold, unlike the 6450SA - which is more like the Hesco U210 / U211. Note that the U211 / U210 are somewhat different from cheaper Hesco SRTs like the old L210 - which M80 will blow straight through. All of Hesco's current SRTs - L211 / M210 / U210 / U211 / D220 with the exception of the Z210 will stop M80 but not fully to NIJ spec.

Anyways, if you're looking at the 6450SAs since the PBZSA is playing hard to get and the LTC 28791's prices are jacked, consider running them with IIIA (frankly II will probably cut it) or an actually-decent trauma pad.

>64801677
Apologies for the double post, I forgot to include the T212 with the Z210. The T212 is a hard no-go against 7.62x51 / 7.62x54R threats, since it's the "true" successor to the L210.

What is a good ballistic helmet to buy? Anyone have an info graph for one?

File: Helmet Buyers Guide 1.00.png (1.1 MB)

1.1 MB PNG

>>64801986
ACH or ECH depending on preferred protection level. If you're hard up for cash Ceradyne BA3A or equivalent IIIA Protech.

Copypasta:
> Phase Zero:
> Buy surplus ACH in your size
> Phase one (non-optional):
> Replace pads (PGD is a really good choice here)
> Replace retention system (Ops-Core H Nape)
> Phase Two, in order of priority (optional, if you have extra money and are not /pfg/):
> Add rails (Ops-Core only, fuck Mlok.)
> Add shroud (Wilcox only, the others can have compatibility issues)
> Add ceramic rifle applique (HHV-Adept)
> Add helmet cover/scrim (lots of options, check Beez)
> Then you will have a helmet that's in a lot of ways better than an off the shelf Ops-Core or TW at about half the price.

File: Helmet Buyers Guide 1.00.png (765.2 KB)

765.2 KB PNG

>>64801986
eBay ACH

File: spiderman.png (178.8 KB)

178.8 KB PNG

>>64802008
>>64802006

Really cheap plate backers from Midwest. Be warned their shipping times can be asinine unless you blow them up on reddit.
1. IIIA: https://midwestarmor.com/products/mass-iiia-soft-plate-backers-set/
2. II:
https://midwestarmor.com/products/mass-ii-soft-plate-backers-set/

Thank you anons, what's the best way to use electronic ear pro with an ACH? Is there anyway to attach it to a rail system like a high cut helmet? Or do I need to be slightly uncomfortable and wear it with the band under the helmet

>>64802536
I just use a pair of walkers under my ACH-cut BA3A. I just take the center pad out. It's not bad comfort wise.

File: Digital NV 1.00.png (890.8 KB)

890.8 KB PNG

Videos on the GNG2K digital night vision goggle are starting to come out. For those not in the know, this is the successor to the Nvg3rd which is the successor to the NVG30.
Looks like they might have fibbed on the lux rating, it's not noticeably more capable than an Nvg30 and just has a higher refresh rate. It also takes an 18500 so it is down on runtime versus the more common 18650.
Ex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khGhbU5hfTY
Overall, it's better than the Nvg30 (60hz refresh vs 40hz is a major improvement) and a similar price, but digital NV definitely still isn't "there" yet. The much more expensive Nvg90 is a total flop so far - probably because it intrudes into entry-level analog prices.

File: 1e4a41278c1gOCTMJacIwJdoaBRD7mnEXOso9Fyr.jpg (29.4 KB)

29.4 KB JPG

>>64802552
>I just use a pair of walkers
Do thee have an aux input? I wantto run a directional mic.

File: Advanced Radio Guide 1.016.png (1.7 MB)

1.7 MB PNG

>>64802643
Yeah, it's a 3.5mm. I have a PTT wired to mine. Walker plus PTT plus CCR (cheap chinese radio) is the quintessential /pfg/ comms setup, although I use a 40W Leixen UV-25D which is admittedly unorthodox.

>>64802660
>3.5mm
I can make this switchable. Thx.

File: flat panel.png (71.3 KB)

71.3 KB PNG

>>64802667
No problem.
>>64798972
Hey chief, they can van eck phreak flat panel displays as well. In other words, if necessary, it is possible to stream snipe even no-wifi, no-bluetooth thermals or digital night vision. I'm unsure about i2 tubes.

>>64802693
Sounds like fear mongering to keep you on your best behavior.

>>64802715
It's just an example of something which is technically possible, but not probable, and can be shielded against as seen with government TEMPEST requirements in SCIFs.
I suppose you could also jam Van Eck eavesdropping equipment by just having TVs playing other stuff near your actual display.
I haven't seen any man-portable directional equipment that could be used to stream snipe thermals or DNV, but that could be an interesting future capability.

>>64802734
I'd like to see one of the autistic youtubers who love this kind of stuff to demonstrate it actually working.

File: aliexpress smoking balls.png (547.7 KB)

547.7 KB PNG

>>64802774
I agree. This is edge-case shit and worrying about Van Eck eavesdropping on your scope, absent exigent circumstances, is like worrying about dudes trying to breach your house with wall-penetrating radars and just taking you out with precision shots through the exterior walls. Possible, but not probable. The tech either isn't there or it is far too expensive / exotic.
In other news, I wandered into the high roller section of Aliexpress again.

File: pbzsa.png (1.3 MB)

1.3 MB PNG

FYI, Offbase.co has VelSys PBZ-SAs back in stock. They're multi-hit BZ API / 7.62x51mm M80 / M855A1 plates at 4.15lb SAPI M / 0.52" thick. $2.2k a set. Basically a straight upgrade from the Hesco U210 / U211 in every way.
https://offbase.co/products/velocity-systems-7-62x39-api-bz-multi-hit-stand-alone-rifle-plate

should I take my chances with the Gilliam 8002 plates?
I realize it's literally trusting my life with a brand without certs, but they seem so good for the price

Anyone besides Rothco still make complete riptstop BDU's in Urban M81?

Rotcho's pattern just doesn't look right for OP Urban Warrior larping

>>64803784
>Buying non-NIJ plates

>>64804485
How would this matter if ou are never shot? A cheap larp maybe is fine.

File: good luck.png (39 KB)

39 KB PNG

>>64785651
Fite me

>>64803784
They're probably the best you can get in that price range.

>>64786937

Yakeda plate carrier, 2,5kg sleeping bag and a tarp, tactical leather boots (probably will last 6months), grenade and mag pouches, G3 set clone in multicam, 3 TQ (for training), aluminium cooking set, fleece and many varieties of poly/cotton pants and jackets.

i went little bit of ham because EU is curbing parcels from TEMU. And I can always sell to larpers and airsofters to get most of my money back if really needed.

I'm former active service (not US) and this is my first-ish time buying stuff like sleeping bags and tarps. I've previously bought compasses and magnesium rods that are fairly high quality. Also their G3 clones are okay and more comfortable/ better fit than stuff i was issued.

i'm certain that boots are either missized or they have cut corners with the stitching. Maybe I will make a review off the stuff I receive.

>>64804512
you BETTER make EMP's a priority with AI-being prevalent...


Or the AI will kill you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sam4lq2WHos

>>64804570
2:10 i can't get back.

>>64804485
A significant number of good plates are not NIJ. The 8002 also missed the cutoff and cannot be certified under .06 since the standard is now closed.
>>64803784
They're 8.3lb, 1.2", and single curve. Cheap, but they will be very bulky. The weight pencils out for the protection and they test well so far, only concern is quality control given the limited number of tests so far.
They're contingency plates, really, and not meant as daily drivers.
>>64804516
Only tungsten-rated plates below $1k/set aside from "surp" XSAPIs on a deal, and these claim to stop higher threats than XSAPIs.

>>64804576
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kWeB4IJ7sA

>>64804585
what would you recommended as main plates then?

>>64804606
Well, shit. There's 1:06 I can't get back.

>>64804615
memes.

>>64804615
CONUS Medium or Special Rifle Threat as defined in >>64785677. Depends on whether you prefer reduced weight and thickness or added 7.62x51 protection. All SRTs in that list can stop 7.62x51mm M80 except the T212, they just run over 44mm backface deformation. I would not dip below M855A1 protection either way.
Ideally a pair of REV. J ESAPIs plus soft armor would be a great daily driver and would cover all reasonable CONUS threats and then some.

>>64802006
Opinion on Ulbricht helmets?

>>64805369
Titanium is neat for low BFS. Which model in particular? I'm seeing some that are nearly 6lb, which is excessive.

File: Longfri.jpg (209.9 KB)

209.9 KB JPG

Talked to LongFri at shotshow
They keep trying to sell the pure poly level 3 plates but nobody wants them
They did regale me with tales of their level 4 performances in ukraine on both sides which was nice
RF3 rating is waiting for NIJ due to the backlog and taking forever but it has passed the RF3 tests

But as a whole nothing new coming from them otherwise.

>>64805406
>They keep trying to sell the pure poly level 3 plates but nobody wants them
Yeah, that's the LON-III-P on the NIJ CPL. Spartan resells it. 3.5lb and $370 a pop for no M855 protection is crap.
>They did regale me with tales of their level 4 performances in ukraine on both sides which was nice
Really? Because others are saying Ukraine is no longer accepting their plates. Both can be true. If the plates work 90% of the time, that's simultaneously horrible and still leaves plenty of "success stories."
>RF3 rating is waiting for NIJ due to the backlog and taking forever but it has passed the RF3 tests
NIJ RF3 has an easier drop test so that isn't surprising. They've skirted Level IV cert forever probably because 0101.06 has a harder protocol vs .07.

>>64804615
> Non-/pfg/
CONUS urban: Hesco L211 or better.
CONUS rural: Any decent RF2 in your price range.
CONUS Civil War: VelSys PBZ-SA
Ukraine War: Anything rated for tungsten threats at the lowest weight, probably Adept Archon or surplus XSAPI + ultra-light backer.
What it looks like is that your plates really don't need to weigh more than 3.6 to 5.7 pounds, if you've got the $.
> /pfg/
Gilliam 8002 covers all of your bases, no joke. It's heavy af, but cheap, and nothing you'll realistically encounter will penetrate it.

>>64805981
Conceding M855A1 protection with RF2 is risky. Stick with the LTC 19513 at minimum. It's a pound or so heavier than a 3810 but reliably beats A1 at higher velocities while the 3810 needs standoff.
/pfg/ wise go with Protech 2230s over the Gilliams. Nearly a pound lighter, multi-curve, $350 or so for the set used versus $628. You lose out on M993 / Swiss P AP on one hand, but Protech has a much better record than Gilliam.

File: beltkit.jpg (1.4 MB)

1.4 MB JPG

>>64805431
>Yeah, that's the LON-III-P on the NIJ CPL.
Yes. Its nice and light but lol no 855
>Really?
Yeah they were very excitable chinese fellers, nobody wanted to hang out with them understandably. The number of failures in ukraine resulting in casualties, probably low considering how unimportant small arms are in that conflict and even a fully compromised strikeface is going to eat frag with the UHMWPE backer.
>Droptest
Such is the nature of a lightweight monolithic strikeface produced by chinks
>>64805981
>Plates that dont stop 855a1 or 80a1
Cease

>>64806048
3.5lb is actually bitch-ass heavy for an all-PE plate, lol. Militech's SiC RF2s provide reliable M855 defeat and are half a pound or so heavier. If you're gonna consneed M855 then run the lightest possible. The Hesco 3801 is 1.95lb for an honest 10x12. It's money, but light.
Realistically even a partly compromised Level IV will probably still eat 5.45 steel core like 7N6M or 7N10, so even if small arms were a larger factor the failure rate won't be too high.

>>64806048
>Plates that dont stop 855a1 or 80a1
> Cease
There has never been a shooting with either round in the US. Not ever. In rural regions, the most likely "heavy threats" are from big or fast hunting rounds, like .375 H&H Magnum, .338 WM, .300 WM, .270 Win, and the rest. There have been LOTS of shootings with those. An RF2 plate that stops M80 with decent BFD should be okay. A lot of plates won't stop those rounds, though.
If you're in a region where hunting is a common pastime, you should optimize your setup for the threats you're most likely to encounter, not for opr8r larping.

>>64806043
>/pfg/ wise go with Protech 2230s over the Gilliams.
That's not going to last. In a few months, they'll be gone for good, like those old Blackbeard plates. Also the Gilliams give you M993+, which is valuable if you want one pair of plates to do absolutely everything.

Since the CR6450SA apparently runs hot on BFD vs M80 and is another case of Apex being a lying fucker, I'm demoting it to SRT status in the next version of >>64785677. Hesco U211 is probably the better plate.

>>64806102
Not really "for good" - they show up police surp every couple of months. There is also an improved 2240 on the CPL that should be running out of warranty this year. I'd like to see the scoop on that one.
The blackbeards were limited quantity because Point Blank showed up to the "replace the LTC 28595" contest with a plate that's heavier than the LTC 28595. 'twas an epic fail.
As for M993 and up, see what this guy said >>64806093. Principle is the same.

>>64806117
>As for M993 and up
I mean, it's a valid concern if you're traveling to Ukraine or some other OCONUS warzone. Otherwise nah.
> Apex being a lying fucker
Water being wet.

>>64806093
A1 threats are the future of ballistics domestically
Copper hunting rounds, mil ammo leaking out, wildcats and hybrid cases are becoming more common not less. This is on par with boomers at departments claiming "gang bangers dont shoot green tip" back in the mid 2000s and then they did and departments were stuck with plates that couldnt stop 855. If youre ever wearing plates and seriously being shot at , a1 threats are going to be there.

>>64806163
Keep in mind that the Adept Colossus loses to 7N37, which is now the weakest tungsten core 7.62x54R or above round Russia is actually slinging. The 8002 is technically inferior (TiB2-SiC > SiC) and otherwise has the same rating. Ergo, 8002 probably also loses to 7N37 and is not suitable for high threat Ukraine business.
IMO, run B-32 API protection and just try to avoid the exotic AP business as much as you can. Russia doesn't have enough of it to justify heavy plates anyway.

>>64806175
>Copper hunting rounds, mil ammo leaking out, wildcats and hybrid cases are becoming more common not less
> If youre ever wearing plates and seriously being shot at , a1 threats are going to be there.
Okay, you know what, I agree. Maybe not now, but 10 years from now, it's a real concern. The best CONUS plate is something that stops M855A1/M80A1 + big and nasty hunting rounds. So what particular plates are best?

>>64806196
Actual best plate for that, end of story, is the LTC 28570. 4.38lb Swimmer M or 4.58lb SAPI M, single hit B-32 API (so M80A1 / M855A1 are covered easily) or multi-hit 7.62x39 BZ API. If you need to reduce BFD against magnum hunting rounds, run IIIA or a decent trauma pad. IIIA preferable.
That Tyr plate is interesting and a little better but lacks all drop protection.

>>64806187
Hot take, if you are going somewhere tungsten threats are realistic, frag is far more likely anyways. How many guys in Ukraine have died to frag from drones, artillery and grenades compared to spicy Russian AP bullets? If I were going to a warzone and my choices were between good frag coverage and basic level III plates and super special plates rated for exotic AP in a PC I would pick the former.

>>64806223
Not a hot take. Russians are using BR3+ lightweight plates for that reason.
In 2014 there were cases where 7N37 was blowing through Level IV plates like butter, but now Russia is broke and is prioritizing donkeys / drones / golf carts / more drones / online shill farms over exotic tungsten AP outside of SOF.
If you're dealing entirely with snipers, then that's where the 7N37-rated BR5+ turbo granits and ACP-Ms come in, but that's a losing battle because it's been twelve years and 7N37 is now third rate. There's always a better bullet.

>>64806232
Yeah I know its not really a hot take, but some are going to consider it one.

>>64806232
> it's been twelve years and 7N37 is now third rate. There's always a better bullet.
Actually not the case. The Russians have basically given up on new production of tungsten AP rounds. All of the recently captured stuff is steel-core. Tungsten supplies are limited, and they've said that using tungsten in fragmenting munitions is more effective.

>>64806257
Mission dictates gear. It also dicktates armor. I agree with A2 that if you're genuinely in a gunfight with plates, things have gone to pot and M855A1 / M80A1 will be in play.
The downside of the LTC 28570 however, just to play the other side, is that it uses a boron carbide strike face and will lose to almost any current tungsten core rifle threat unless velocity is very low. If you are up against steel core M2AP, you will also lose.
That Archon is very appealing, but offers little over the Gilliam 9969 even with the really sketchy price increase. There's no supply of 7N39 or 5.8 DVC-12 CONUS. Nammo AP4 is super rare and actually not that good. Both claim to stop M995. The Gillie is slightly lighter.

>>64806276
That was more rhetorical, as I've said that Russia is now broke and prioritizing other things. >>64806232
They have seemingly replaced 7N37, rare as it is, with 7N51 regardless, which has a longer core.

>>64806279
> that if you're genuinely in a gunfight with plates, things have gone to pot and M855A1 / M80A1 will be in play.
Depends on who you're in a gunfight with. If we're talking about another summer of love, which I think is increasingly likely, then your most common threat remains 9mm, and cheap 223 and 7.62x39 from AR and AK pistols. Some agitators who have their shit together might have spicier stuff and M855 is common enough to be assumed. But I doubt A1 is common with armed leftists or rioters. If NG/Cops/Feds are your perceived threat then most likely you're fucked in a gun fight either way. But NG obviously carries A1. Cops can range from garbage to fancy LEO only duty rounds like TAP. Feds pretty exclusively carry the fancy bonded stuff.

>>64806279
I think we're agreed that if you're looking to cover your bases with something "optimal" you want something that will stop M80A1, M855A1, and heavy hunting rounds up to .338 WM, at a weight that isn't crazy, and that means something on a spectrum that runs from the LTC 28570 to the Adept Archon or 9969, depending on how much headroom you want, your budget, and so on.

>>64806302
>If we're talking about another summer of love, which I think is increasingly likely, then your most common threat remains 9mm, and cheap 223 and 7.62x39 from AR and AK pistols.
Dude, it looks like 2026/2027 is going to be as hot as 2020. Maybe even more so. And, yeah, those are the threats. M855 is still sold by the bucket though.

File: We do a little singlepoint.jpg (3.9 MB)

3.9 MB JPG

>>64806302
Look at the old photos of blm activist gang standing around with sks, crossbow, PSA AR15 with airsoft dot, etc. from 10 years ago and have a good chuckle.
Now compare to the leftists now standing around with rifles with suppressors and proper rifles in current year.

These people are buying whatever they want and are progressing, if you underestimate them you will die.
>NG Obviously carries
Yep and just like people tugging rifles from police cruisers, they will be tugging them from NG. Especially in the current political climate where the NG is being politicized to hand out coffee to extremists.

>>64806302
>>64806324
I agree. That's why the copypasta lists M80 + M855 as CONUS Minimum. ARPs are going to be in play a lot. Now, a lot of this is more velocity-driven than some people may think. Hesco's 3810 will lose to M855A1 out of a full length barrel, but can beat A1 fine at reduced velocity. It's not a death sentence to lose A1 protection, but if things get bad you'll be left wanting.
Cops have both 7.62 Swiss P AP and .300 available for like $2 a round. .338 LM version for somewhat more. Several depts picked them up in the past few years. 8002 handles the .300WM version, will lose to .338.
NG / Feds will just do what they did at Waco and pull a badass secret super AP out of their ass if they have to. Losing battle there.

>>64806309
If we're talking heavy hunting rounds, that's another point in favor of the Protech 2230. M2AP at over 3,510ft/s means you're covered versus even reloaded .300 Weatherby.

>>64806332
>Now compare to the leftists now standing around with rifles with suppressors and proper rifles in current year.
Most of the shit I've seen so far is equally as laughable. A gel blaster that resembles an AR. An airsoft MPX. An M&P15 with an empty mag etc. There are some that are far more organized. But the majority are very low tier threats and they can be because the places they tend to show up and riot allow them to with no resistance. Their main threat isn't in their training and equipment but numbers. And also in that if you defend yourself the local authorities are on their side and will try to take down like Rittenhouse.
>>64806324
>>64806336
Yeah I consider M855 to be common enough to warrant defending against. Not A1 or any real AP threats at this time though. Even if we are talking about a low tier threat with an ARP, there's still a decent chance there is M855 loaded in that magazine. And in my testing even the most basic lukewarm 223 from an AR pistol will still blow straight through soft armor.

>>64806391
I'd be more concerned with M2AP reloaded into a .300 Winmag given the large supply of M2AP available and the ease with which a large steel penetrator busts through even M855A1 + M80A1 plates, hence my own preference for the Protech 2230s.
Additionally, where a ceramic III+ is strong is that it has double the multi hit versus a basic IV against weaker threats. Some plates (again, the 2230 or Hesco 4601) are rated for both Level III and IV requirements.
Also, M855 is not quite a silver bullet against PE plates and can be stopped at "ARP velocity" unless the grade of UHMWPE used is really bad. I see Point Blank still has some PE plates not rated for mild steel 7.62x39, which is similar to those Italian plates from the 1990s. Exercise caution with that.
Soft armor is one department where headroom runs out quick. A long-slide glock with a switch will fuck up IIIA soft using 50gr Liberty or similar. Also, a lot of PE soft armor panels cannot withstand contact shots or a 5-15 Express test.

>>64806486
>I'd be more concerned with M2AP reloaded into a .300 Winmag given the large supply of M2AP available
I'm not worried about it at all. The chances of me coming across one of the handful of leftists who even know about that let alone have done it is slim to none. I'm not saying they don't exist. Just that they are so rare its not worth factoring in to my threat assessment.
>A long-slide glock with a switch will fuck up IIIA soft using 50gr Liberty or similar.
I've tested the liberty 10mm on IIIa panels and yeah it smokes it. Soft armor just has a hard time coping with anything moving that fast. This was against a panel that had previously defeated SS198 btw.

>>64806504
My rationale is that nuts are learning the value of sniper attacks. They've already done that against ICE. It's inevitable that one of them will watch Buffman's Hesco 4403 video and realize M2AP pushed really fast can brute force 99% of plates in the field.
No reason to leave headroom on the table. If you can get 2230s over 4403s or Gilliam 8002s over Highcum 4S17Ms, do it. More headroom also means better performance versus weaker threats.

>>64805385
I've got a C-1300H that I snagged from a European dealer. Mostly got it as a collector's piece though.

>>64806562
Not bad, a little better than IIIA but with much tighter BFD requirements because VPAM. There is an applique for it which boosts the forehead up to 7.62x39 MSC. I see they replaced it with an all PM-6 titanium-aramid version.
>>64806504
Also forgot to mention, the loons have extensive communication networks. If one of them finds out about a way to beat le heckin' gestapo(1!111) plates then they all find out. I'm gonna have a laff if they reload the M2AP wrong and the people's snipers lose their hands.

Not to detract from the a1 discussion but is the existence of m993/m995 really that much of a concern? As I understand it, it’s not really common. Could it be used as a benchmark? Sure.

File: dollar discount ryan reynolds.png (1.1 MB)

1.1 MB PNG

For armor deals of the week, Hudsongunner still has the following plates in stock:
1. Protech 2014G Level IVs, single curve. These were competitors to the Hesco 4400 back in 2017. $225 a set. If you're broke this is the cheapest option you have for basic Level IV protection which isn't sketchballs.
http://hudsongunner.com/protech-2014g-level-iv-stand-alone-rifle-plate-set-of-2/
2. Protech 2120-5s - III+, multi-curve. Good for 6x M80 or M855 on paper, were tested to also stop 6x M855A1 but I don't have an exact velocity number. 5.8lb, $275 a set.
https://hudsongunner.com/protech-2120-5-level-iii-stand-alone-rifle-plate-set-of-2-1011418/
3. Ceradyne Defender 550s, SAPI L or XL for $265 a set. I have confirmation from an old Crye catalog these are Level IV. I'm concerned about delamination so maybe avoid these.
https://www.tacswap.com/post/68d33774ce59b3e6f6e5a93b

Also, may I introduce the latest B-list armor company. Run by dollar store Ryan Reynolds... Hudi's Tactical! (pic rel)
It's a B-grade Chinesium shop. Typical undersized strike face using rectangular tiles. 10x12 plate has 9x11 ceramic. Layup is similar to Jinwudun but the reports are a little better. Backer is good for IIIA in the event the ceramic is bashed up. The Alumina III+ is M855 / M193 / M80 (2x of each) at 5.2lb / $260/set. Level IV is 6.4lb / $330/set. I see drop tests for neither plate in actual lab reports. Plates are thin so that's suspect. Buff tested the III+ to hold up against M855A1 and M80A1 (barring one unfair hit of M855A1), but he's an affiliate, as usual, so I do have to somewhat discount his test. The video is four years old and the plate's weight is about 0.4lb lighter than advertised.
Keep in mind that if there were no cheat rings the weights would be ~6.1lb for the III+ and about 7.5lb for the IV. I think Gilliam has them beat. Cheat rings are still, IMHO, automatic disqualifier.

>>64806742
>Not to detract from the a1 discussion but is the existence of m993/m995 really that much of a concern?
It depends. The same people that have access to M855A1 (NG / feds) are also conveniently the only party with a large stock of M995 / M993. to A2's point in >>64806332, it's feasible that people will be tugging guns from NG. If they can tug M855A1, they'll tug black tip if that's issued. I could see those rounds coming out if things turn kinetic and the 20,000+ 4SAS4s come out to play, not to mention the other mcshitloads of plates people have been hoarding in the past six years. Most plates don't really expire and the number in the field is increasing every day.
>Could it be used as a benchmark? Sure.
The counterargument is that if M993 comes out to play, so will M1158. We don't know how much better M1158 is, as the M993 replacement.
Your average Level IV plate made from Alumina or Silicon Carbide can handle M995 (5.56) at lower velocities fine. Things get risky at about 3,400ft/s. Boron carbide IVs are weaker to this threat because of technical amorphization issues. M993 is an entirely different beast and at 3,050ft/s and up will cream most IVs. M1158 is assumed at least par with Swiss P AP, which is a cut above M993.
>As I understand it, it’s not really common.
For now. The situation is always liable to change, which is why I've taken a liking to the 8002 purely as a "contingency" plate. Break glass in case of emergency type stuff. It's no good against the new crop of .300 Norma / .338 NM / LM threats but standoff will be significantly reduced versus a weaker, basic RF3 / IV plate.

File: HighCarry.jpg (259.6 KB)

259.6 KB JPG

>>64806806
Blacktip isnt issued anywhere near the frequency of the 855a1 or m80a1
Only time I know of it being handed out to anyone not special, was during iranian posturing where they were worried bout PMFs overrunning bases prior/post missile strikes in iraq.

>>64806806
Tempting me to get back into the plate game despite not really having a reason to. I do have doubts about those rounds being issued over a1 even with the whole ng scenario. A1? Absolutely. Conus would be a whole smorgasbord of variety with the usual m193 and m855 being common denominators with a sprinkling of a1 and special snowflake federal/hornady/70gr¥ inbetween

File: Colossus heavy.png (631.9 KB)

631.9 KB PNG

>>64806892
Certainly. They're tungsten, after all, and tungsten is a strategic resource better spent on other things. It's a probability thing. If the loons are reliably running Level IV plates and things turn kinetic, then the black tips are liable to show up. Police departments aren't buying Swiss P AP just because it's cool, it's because active shooters are rolling armor.
M995 / M993 could be useful for checkpoint work also, engaging vehicles, and not just popping plates. Vastly superior barrier performance as well.
>>64806905
>Tempting me to get back into the plate game
We have autism.
>I do have doubts about those rounds being issued over a1 even with the whole ng scenario.
IMO, they're like XSAPIs and will likely be issued if and when necessary. The threat levels in >>64785677 become less likely the further you go down. CONUS Extreme, where M993 and Swiss P AP sit, is "extreme" for a reason. I can add a .50 caliber AP category if you anons like, but that's really in the realm of impractical and the options are thin unless some of us want to go in on a custom commission to Gilliam (Model 9001 would be a nice name). He'll probably do it but it might cost some cash. Curious if we could convince Adept to just release the Colossus Heavy as-is.
>Conus would be a whole smorgasbord of variety with the usual m193 and m855 being common denominators with a sprinkling of a1 and special snowflake federal/hornady/70gr¥ inbetween
Agreed. Frankly, you can PROBABLY get by in most situations with a set of Hesco 3810s. Those used to be very popular. Reliable M855 / M80 defeat, M855A1 needs lower velocity. IMO, it's better to have two sets of plates. Daily drivers and then a contingency high-level threat. Trying to do everything in one set is a no-go unless you've got booko bucks and/or connections to access true top-shelf plates.

>>64807001
Super-ultra-mega contingency plate right there. Might come in handy if you need to assault an armored division or a group of APCs.
> Frankly, you can PROBABLY get by in most situations with a set of Hesco 3810s.
Honestly I think that the copypasta needs to be redone with fewer tiers and fewer/better options.
There's no reason to run a plate today that won't stop M80 Ball and common hunting calibers.
In most scenarios, there's probably no reason to run a plate that won't stop M855A1.
So use that as the baseline and go up from there.

>>64807001
> with a set of Hesco 3810s. Those used to be very popular.
I think that the 3811 is one of Hesco's more popular plates, at least with LEOs and such.But I still have my doubts, after the 4800 and 4403 tests.

>>64807237
9.22lb / 1.488" thick isn't terrible given it stops at least one .50 BMG M2AP at 2,579ft/s. 0.9lb heavier and 0.288" thicker than the Gilliam 8002, but obviously a much more expensive plate. Probably good for counter-sniper, although .50 cal AP can get extremely nasty and M2AP is strictly entry-level. The plate doesn't stand a chance against the .50 caliber version of Swiss P used as the PM-13 test threat.
>There's no reason to run a plate today that won't stop M80 Ball and common hunting calibers
Most of the listed SRTs will, except the BFD will exceed 44mm - which isn't fatal but could result in increased behind armor blunt trauma. There are ways to rectify that.
Plates optimized purely for 5.56 and 7.62x39 threats are considerably thinner and easier to conceal. Plates that do the same and are of equivalent thickness plus reliable M80 defeat, like the PBZSA, are massively more expensive. $400 for a set of Hesco T212s versus $2,200 for a set of PBZSAs. Most people here cannot swing that kind of cash, so SRTs have a place.
>In most scenarios, there's probably no reason to run a plate that won't stop M855A1.
Weight, mostly. There's nearly two pounds separating the not-A1 rated 3810 versus the A1-rated 3411. Nearly a pound between the Hesco 3811, not good for A1, and the LTC 28780 which is. Not to get technical, but the 3811 has better M80 multi-hit than the LTC 28780 as well. Certified for six versus maybe three, and that's not also accounting for shot spacing - which certain military plates tend to be more forgiving with.
If weight's on a premium then there is definitely still a role for bare M193 + M855 + M80 protection, but it's definitely "CONUS Minimum."
>>64807248
The 3811 as far as I've heard hasn't gotten too many adopters. NIJ certified like the 3810, but a lot more expensive. $1.2k a set for the 3810 versus over $1.7k a set for the 3811s. You save about half a pound.

File: FIRST SHOT FAILURES.png (3 MB)

3 MB PNG

>>64807248
>But I still have my doubts, after the 4800 and 4403 tests.
To address this point separately, and as discussed in previous breads, the Hesco 4800 and 4403 didn't fail. Not technically, because the M2AP was above spec (by a hair, but that's an "unfair" hit by NIJ rules) and there is a concern Buffman's drop test is harder than .06, but the physics need to be crunched.
What it shows is that Hesco doesn't overbuild their plates unlike many other manufacturers. Highcom plays a lot of games but their .06 plates are generally more robust than Hesco counterparts, albeit heavier when honest sizing is used. The 4403 meets Level IV requirements and that's about it, unlike the 4S17M which also meets higher DEA requirements. Same for the 4800 - bare minimum spec basically. The 4601 is a little better since it meets both Level III and IV, and the 4403 / 4800 will fail Level III, but the M2AP conditioned v0 is still very low. The 4601 and 4800 don't really have Highcom counterparts so there's no competition to force Hesco to unfuck their shit there.
This doesn't reflect too negatively on the 3811, since it's far more expensive than the Alumina+PE 3810 and there is a lot of room in that price to incorporate a lighter, better SiC or B4C strike face without compromising drop pro or BFD by thinning the backer.

>>64807330
> Most of the listed SRTs will, except the BFD will exceed 44mm - which isn't fatal but could result in increased behind armor blunt trauma.
I thought that the L210 and other fiberglass-backed SRTs fail against M80 Ball all the time, and M80 Ball is also strictly entry-level where, uh, rural threats are concerned.

>>64802839
>VelSys PBZ-SAs back in stock.
>multi-hit BZ API / 7.62x51mm M80 / M855A1 plates
>at 4.15lb SAPI M / 0.52" thick. $2.2k a set
I'm in, will have to stagger purchaes, but this sounds like a winner.

>>64807379
The L210 is now discontinued, it's been replaced by the L211 which picks up 7.62x54R LPS protection like the more expensive M210. This means they'll stop M80 but the BFD runs over 44mm. LPS is more penetrative, but M80 is harder on the plate backer. For an example of this, the original USGI SAPI from 1998 is good for M80 no problem ICW milspec soft armor. However, it is only rated for 7.62x54R LPS at 2,300ft/s versus 2,832ft/s for the Hesco L211. The L211 is good for 7.62x39 BZ API, so it has a stronger strike face than the USGI SAPI, but the backer is weaker. SAPI is expressly not rated for that threat, and was shortly replaced by an ISAPI around 2003 which was - this was before ESAPI. Strike face breaks the penetrator, backer catches whatever is left, basically.
All of Hesco's current SRTs except for the T212 (the T.Rex "true" L210 successor) and potentially the Z210 will stop M80 but the BFD will exceed 44mm. Word of mouth says the U210 / U211 are in the 48-52mm range, which is technically a lot less than LSAPI at up to 62mm!

File: pbzsa the immortal.png (32.4 KB)

32.4 KB PNG

>>64807401
Despite being a ten year old plate (below link shows it being discussed in 2015), the PBZSA has mogged three generations of LTC and Hesco less than overt / SRT plates. True example of what Tencate, the OEM, is capable of when you let them run on a cool guy budget. Only company around today that can approach prime Ceradyne's capabilities, and the only major armor company with not one NIJ suspension, recall, or scandal.
The only plates that compare with the PBZSA are as follows:
1. Hesco SC3812, much thicker but about 0.35lb lighter. Loses BZ API defeat and is $3.4k a set / credential blocked.
2. LTC LSAPI, 3.5lb and BZ API / M80 / M855A1, but has a higher BFD limit of 62mm.
3. The GEN-6 TSA / Less-than-Overt plate made by LTC for SOCOM starting in 2023, which replaced the 28791. We know virtually nothing about it, but it's likely about 0.15lb lighter than the PBZSA with no drawbacks. It hasn't shown its face yet.
4. Ceradyne-Paraclete MH3 CQB. 4.2lb, ICW IIIA so realistically about 4.8-4.9lb, no drop foam, but is rated for 10x 5.56 M995 - a threat that the PBZSA will likely lose to, and also stops B-32 API / M61 AP / .30-06 M2AP but with higher than 44mm BFD.
5. Cercom CER-SOPS. Heavier than all of the above, but much better shot spacing / multi-hit versus BZ API.

The Ceradyne and Cercom aren't realistically obtainable and are both very old plates, so you need to play the condition lottery too. The PBZ-SAs are excellent. The Hesco "ALAP" plate they're talking about is the 1520, which was a ~2014 plate that roughly split the difference between the L210 and 3410. Poorfag PBZSA, basically.

Link: https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/index.php?threads/rifle-plates-show-and-tell.1289/

File: saarrr.png (292.2 KB)

292.2 KB PNG

Breaking news from last year. M855A1 is now 400ft/s faster.
https://soldiersystems.net/2025/02/12/sig-sauer-global-defense-range-demo-day-ammunition/

>>64806332
dumb chinless bootlicker nigger

File: 1667390666050.jpg (44.9 KB)

44.9 KB JPG

if I only eat mres for a year what will happen

Should I get the Protech 2230s?
how concerned should I be of them being old?
everything else under 1000 dollars seems like shit

>>64807968
>Should I get the 2230s
I got a pair, they're great. Another anon got a pair from the Gunbroker dude for like $340. No complaints from him.
>Age
Doesn't affect well made plates in any reasonable timeframe. Buffman just tested two nearly thirty year old OG SAPIs, the black ones from 1998, and they held up fine.
>everything else under 1000 dollars seems like shit
Yeah, ever since the Hesco 4600 got kicked in the dick true mid-range options have been sparse. That was $800/set and 6lb for a 10x12, dual III and IV rating.

Cheapest 2230 seller, shoot him an offer for $120 a plate, two plates and see if you can get a better deal than the other anon:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1148144786

>>64807781
It still cant pen lvl IV. Glad I didnt go with lvl III or III+ plates. Also those rounds must eat barrels alive.

>>64808038
Keep in mind this was at 100 meter standoff and there are a lot of deficient "not-Level IVs" out there. Nearly five dozen suckers all bought the bag on those Botach expired / possibly recalled Hesco 4400s. There are roughly twenty thousand Highscum 4SAS4s out there.
I'd like to see how "M995 HYP" does at ~3,800ft/s out of a 20". That's 400ft/s over XSAPI or ESAPI REV. J spec. Should give Hesco 4403s and such a run for their money.

>>64807957
Lack of micronutrients and bloating for a start.

>>64808038
I think that they did penetrate, which is why the caption said "in defense of the plates. . ."
There's an obvious penetration in the image in the bottom-center, right to the left of the label.
Stupid test, though. Shot spacing was way too close. It also looks like a Tyr Tactical plate, which is lol, because those don't seem to have been tested anywhere else.

>>64807957
Right before covid, they were super cheap on Amazon. I could get 24 of them for like $60 which worked out to just $2.50 a day to eat. I lived off them for roughly 8 months. The only other thing I ever ate was eggs in the morning. They were fine, except I was constipated all the time. I was only shitting like twice a week, and would have to take miralax. I had drawers and drawers full of the accessory packs though. Menu 19 was my favorite, but the Irish cream cappuccino was always good too.

>>64808689
The plate in question is ICW IIIA, specifically a panel called NFA3/10, and I don't see it was tested with soft armor at all.
.

Do you know a placard that can go form 3mags with a bit of admin in front, to 6 mags ?

>>64808974
That makes the test even stupider

Has anyone used the Holosun 221 or is sms the better buy?

File: ET PHONE HOME.jpg (1.7 MB)

1.7 MB JPG

>>64809290
Man, none of those are really good
Up your budget
>>64809178
Your 3 mag of choice with a tenspeed infront of it?
>>64807781
Told ya
>>64807915
Yeah if we arent careful they might turn the police state against you like they have since 2008!
Bye bye libtard!

>>64809371
A2 has spoken. What would you recommend if you were just looking for a no frills lam? No illum, just the laser.

>>64809425
The iris isnt bad for its money
>Laser only
But why?

>>64808689
The 308 penned not the 556. In the video they even said the m855a1 did not pen. You can even see the pic in the bottom middle picture it says 7.62

>>64809438
I hear the illum on them tended to be shitty. Figured could run secondary illum like a tard instead.

>>64809456
Standalone illum choices kinda bad as well
Some iris variants atleast features a full power vcsel illuminator which performs perfectly fine for its pricepoint.

>>64809468
Very well. Thanks A2. I’ll post the build when I can. I think it will cause an aneurism.

>>64808974
The NFA3/10 is a soft armor panel. Tyr's ICW level III is called the HA3/ST

>>64809515
That's what was said. The Level IV Tyr plate is in-conjunction-with NFA3/10. You can't use just any IIIA with certain ICW plates.
>>64809189
It's IMO a touch bogus, but it is sig saar we're talking about. I think this will have a lot more applicability against III+ and SRT ceramics only good for "base" M855A1, so maybe PBZSAs and SC3812s and 28791s won't age super well if this becomes common.
>>64809290
If you're dead broke the HFXC and Trinity are both fine, but waterproofing on the HFXC is bad and makes it unsuitable for hard rain, snow melting, etc. Submersion is out. SMS schizo was full of it when he said a v3 would come out like last year.

>>64808842
>I was only shitting like twice a week
Tf.

>>64809441
Thar's a lot more feasible. M80A1 gets about 3,000ft/s out of a 20", Hesco 4800 is only good up to 3,050ft/s and that's a standalone plate.
Add even just 200ft/s and you're at least in the v50 zone.

Does anyone have recommendations for a plate carrier setup in urban conditions? Or can you share your plate carrier setup and why you chose it?
Also, if anyone has any setup recommendations for a potential home invasion by several armed/armored people, I'd appreciate your thoughts. I'm not quite at the level where I'd need an MG-3 mounted at the top of my stairs, but I'm getting close.

>>64809371
>Your 3 mag of choice with a tenspeed infront of it?
Probably what I'm gonna do, the japanese have one but I'm gonna get raped by shipping and import

>>64809786
>Probably what I'm gonna do, the japanese have one but I'm gonna get raped by shipping and import
https://www.optactical.com/product/blue-force-gear-ten-speed-avs-flap-triple-m4-stackable/

?

>>64809757
>Also, if anyone has any setup recommendations for a potential home invasion by several armed/armored people
1. Harden your house and make entry more difficult so you actually have time to call cops, put your gear on, figure out what's going on, get family to a designated holdout position.
2. If you thought your house was hardened enough harden it some more. Make a safe room, use fiberglass to harden the walls to applicable UL 752 standards.
3. AR with M855A1 will be persuasive against basic steel plates and very persuasive against all commercially sold polyethylene plates, dependent on barrel length.
4. Look into dazzlers and other implements so you can blind the fuckers and give yourself an edge in CQB. Keep in mind you just have to defend a pre-set saferoom. Actually clearing your house out is extremely risky if you're outnumbered several to one.
5. I'd look into a shield at that point, maybe a wheeled one so you can push full-body III+ or above while engaging. Then run a properly sized Level IV + 6x8 sides, then deltoids / neck and a helmet.
Think how long it will take to put your shit on and make ready at 2:00 AM in the dark.

Actually, wait, why don't you move? Please expand on what's going on here.

Also forgot to mention, if you are using dazzlers in any capacity, it is mcfucking imperative you wear laser eyepro. Brown lens is preferable. SPECS on ebay are super cheap, but you need enclosed goggles with the necessary OD ratings for full protection.

>>64809800
I was referring to the 3 to 6 placard, this thing https://shop.vtg.jp/en/products/rufus-core

>>64809931
Just get a spiritus Mk4?

>>64809965
forgot those existed

File: ghetto.png (955.1 KB)

955.1 KB PNG

>The year is 2030
>The police have quit their jobs and are now collecting unemployment. Every single cop is now working under the table as a bouncer at a gay bar.
>ICE collectively got fired by president Newsom. They are now living in Mexico under assumed names and have formed their own cartel called Los Taco Bell.
>Cartels roam the streets. Anons in panic mode as a box of .22LR is now $35.
>Body armor is now illegal nationwide because another FBI-groomed dumb of ass gooner shot up a porn store in the name of an anthro dog
>Porn is also now VHS and DVD only because of Palantir social credit system judging you by your flavor of goon material.
>Body armor is illegal, entire autism ruined
>Anon now has no choice... but to buy BOTACH shields.

>>64809371
grow a chin

>>64810513
He's trying to grow the first A1 rated one.

>>64809178
Arbor Arms Combat wombat

New flexible rifle armor on the block from Canada, III+ and IV. The IV seems stupid heavy.
https://www.aitacticalsolutions.com/product-page/cataphract-level-iv-flexible-plate

>>64810734
Hold up, that can't be right. 11 pounds? Flexible fiberglass or something? You'd have to be retarded to buy that shit.

>>64810767
Silicon Carbide for the 4.9kg version, there's also a 4kg SiC-Composite version. What I don't get are two things.
1. The version in the 2023 test report is 7.4lb and opens with 41mm BFD and NO DROP TEST. Same deal with FRAS. You can't tell me any potential drop protection in the current version is that much extra weight.
2. Variance is 10% +- for both weight and thickness. That's significantly higher than RMA.

Lastly, Bain's IV+ SiC Dragonskin tested to beat .338 Lapua Swiss P AP was 9.4lb not counting required IIIA, so it's lighter but tests vastly better despite both using SiC? Maybe it's a Jinwudun situation and the Canucks are using really low grade ceramic.

>>64810863
> Variance is 10% +- for both weight and thickness
So it's as much as 12 pounds and 1.5" for basic bitch Level IV. What's the Colossus Heavy, like three pounds lighter? I've heard, maybe from you, that somebody could even make a Level IV steel plate at 12 pounds and 1/2". This plate is probably shitty everything, shitty ceramic, shitty fiberglass, shitty design, shitty "anti-counterfeit hologram sticker"

>>64810917
Colossus Heavy is 9.4lb and 1.488" on the dot. That's also right about the steel plates. Historically they're about 13lb and just over 1/2" with a totally insufficient spall coating. They get to 14lb on a good day. You never see them outside of gun shows and pop up tent garage ops.
There was an attempt at an ultrahard steel-PE ESAPI in 2004 but that failed for obvious reasons.
If your plate is 9lb or above it needs to eat at minimum .50 caliber steel core AP or very exotic tungsten AP, minimum 7N37. Otherwise, it has no purpose. End of story.

>>64809612
No shame. Just sayin' I'm @ 2 so far after the game day tempura shimp and chili dog. That's with fasting yesterday.

>>64811059
I'm at three, entirely too much espresso with protein powder mixed in. Last one was a liquid steamer.

>>64811071
Mmm, chocko puddin'.

>>64811080
It was kinda chunky honestly like moldy yellow gatorade they were like little boats in the yellow sea

>>64811091
>they were like little boats in the yellow sea
We all are in the same little boats, we just take turns rowing. I tend to watch my portions and eat at regular times, skipping all the travel channel weird food with antennae and eyeballs looking back. Favoring high nutrient, low residue foods. Fruits, nuts, eggs, basic "caveman" paleolithic diet. But I did gorge on the home baked cookies that came out late 4th quarter. I think there's a shrimp or two hanging in there. It will pass. Thank you for caring.

>>64811122
Based tripdubs

File: 996.png (744.1 KB)

744.1 KB PNG

>>64801117
Follow up. They're out of stock on the pimp cloaks they're on the 9-9-6 making more.

File: 12pounds.png (830.3 KB)

830.3 KB PNG

>>64810917
Below is a video showing an example of some Level IV steel for anyone curious. The manufacturer, like most steel companies, went defunct after a certain number of years.
Except for the big guys like shit-r-500 and Spurtan it's rare to have a steel plate outfit, which is usually just some dude in his garage with cutting equipment, last more than 3-4 years.
The plates are twelve pounds even with absolutely no spall coating, which is extremely dangerous especially against M2AP. As said before they're realistically 13lb with coating, 14-14.5lb with an actually sufficient coating.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YYXD6jNYx1M

AR500 attempted a Level IV steel plate themselves, and it did withstand .50 caliber AMAX or whatever in that infamous murder basement video, but the bullet fragmentation was ludicrous and looks like a hand grenade.

>>64811341
Asian people are so industrious with thier little fingers! American fingers are just to big.

>>64811473
I command them work 007 not 996 to make american gooner pimp cape to put in his butt on ur behalf

>>64809757
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/shot-2026-automatic-for-the-people-now-you-can-diy-a-gatling-gun-44825758

Set up at top of stairs

>>64811510
>american gooner pimp cape
9 pgs of capes: https://www.darkknightarmoury.com/product-category/clothing-4/cloaks-capes-and-robes/

File: IMG_20151004_112152(1).jpg (216.7 KB)

216.7 KB JPG

>>64811523
I see this and think too complicated. Who tf want to load belts with .22lr when you can use the Buttler Creek mag loader?

File: 20250602_190931.jpg (1.5 MB)

1.5 MB JPG

I asked in /hg/ but haven't gotten a response yet.
For OWB holsters, QLS, RRI, Blade-Tek for quick change? Pros, cons? Which one is considered the best? Current holsters I own are Safariland for my P220s and a Blackhawk Omnivore for when I get this optic mounted. Eventually I want a level 2 retention holster for my USP 45 w/ an X300 attached. My use case is for practical pistol course training and ultimately competition at one of the clubs I'm a member at.

File: 112r00mc-01.jpg (61.5 KB)

61.5 KB JPG

i ordered 2 HSGI Gen 1 X2R tacos since they were cheap and idk i'm retarded but they seem pretty rough in terms of QC. the polymer on the other one is bent like 45 degrees inwards so it feels crummy to use, there are dangling bits of string and so on. the other one is more decent overall.

i was surprised since i was under the impression that these were some of the better pouches available but they seem crudely put together. is this normal and am i just retarded?

>>64813429
Where did you order them from?

>>64813552
https://www.tacticalcenter.es/en/hsgi-x2r-taco

the labels were all crumpled up and shitty so i reckon they were old and possibly poorly stored. i could still return them but itd be a bother

>>64813429
Fwiw I ordered 3 gen 2 single rifle mag tacos, from hsgi themselves, and they were immaculate upon arrival. I have how ever swapped from those to the pattern 84 flap pouches from kommandostore since I wanted to be able to carry more mags if I ever needed to during longer larp sessions in the woods.

Looking to get plates and a carrier. Are there any better options for around a grand than 11x14 hesco 4403s and the crye airlite SPC?

>>64814597
That's some serious weight. Did you size yourself for 11x14s? Raise budget to 4601s and you'll get better plates with less weight.
Ideal option for SAPI XL is a pair of surp ESAPIs (REV.J best) backed with 11x14 IIIA backers, but since they're used you need to play the condition games.

Anyone shoot some 4401s yet? Tryna remember what the hubub was about them other than Apex being a slimeball

>>64814616
I'm 6'5" 250 with a 49 inch chest. I figure even lean at 220 I'd want XL plates. Lighter stuff would be nice but not for over twice the price.

>>64813393
RTI / blackhawk feels more robust to me than QLS, but QLS is pretty common and reasonably priced. Plus, a lot of holster makers offer the Safariland hole pattern for OWB.