Thread editions and themes are latently homosexual.

Would anyone like to beta read Victoria?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xDmtTCFh1DPUPqj9Qfy8zPHlMLaL-2ul8vD3MdkLvos/edit?usp=sharing

>>25050204
At least enable suggestions if you're gonna disable copy/pasting.

>>25050204
Nope

>>25050180
Is it true I shouldn't use subtext?

>>25050223
Whoever told you that is either stupid, kidding, or trying to sabotage you

>>25050226
Ok, that's what I thought, but I'd seen that clip from the op before and I wasn't sure

>>25050229
If you couldn't tell that Garth Marenghi is satirical you're either stupid, kidding, or doomed to self-sabotage

>>25050233
I never saw the clip in context, so I didn't know. For all I could tell, he was a renowned writer I'd never heard of.

>>25050238
You are either stupid, kidding, or etc etc

Is there such a thing as a setting getting too convoluted? Right now I have a 40 page lore/setting document that I'm using to plot out everything that includes an underlying metaphysics, 10000 year world events timeline, and exhaustive explanations of all factions and story elements and the actual story mostly revolves around glorified office workers.

>>25050247
Doesn't matter as long as the actual writing is good. Make a convoluted setting or don't, just make sure your actual writing is worth reading.

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Here's a short story I've been working on lately. I just finished this draft and I hope it will be my penultimate one. Let me know what you guys think:

https://pastes.io/krummholz

>>25050258
>>25050204
>it's another "anon begs for feedback on his long-ass piece alongside absolutely zero enticement to generate interest; no pitch, no synopsis, no premise, not even the genre(s)" thread

>>25050267
fine fine.

Historical Fiction
After her father and husband are executed, Victoria swears revenge against the man who killed them---her ex-fiancé, the Crown Prince, Marcellus.

>>25050275
>Historical Fiction
That's just a lazy man's fantasy. I shan't read.

>>25050275
I like historical fiction but that premise sounds bland and generic as hell. Try to think up what makes your story different from every other "avenge the family" story out there and find a way to convey that in your logline. If there is anything that makes your story unique, which I suppose there could not be.

>>25050275
Slopplot

>>25050267
fair enough

science fiction

It's inspired by the "you're immortal but there's a snail that can kill you that's following you" meme (although it isn't literally a snail). Ig in writing it I was trying to explore what only thinking about evading a pursuer does to the MC's mind after a billion years. There's a bit about the different ways the evader and pursuer view eternity also.

>>25050204
is there some subset of these 57 pages you are especially looking for feedback on

>>25050297
Slopplot

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>still have until the end of the month before my KDP select enrollment expires
>published the ebook on retailers other than Amazon today anyway

>>25050288
How's this?

Armed with the blessings of Christ, Princess Victoria ushers in Ragnarök and the Götterdämmerung as she seeks vengeance against the man who killed her father and husband, her ex-fiancé, the Crown Prince, Marcellus.

>>25050299
Just general impressions and if there are any glaring issues such as not introducing the "Christianity" part of the storyline needed more clarification. One of my friends didn't understand why Christianity was introduced in a world filled with Nordic gods. I personally thought it was implied but the setting confused her. I'm not seeing it, hoping someone here can help me there.

>>25050300
sorry. The true historical story is literally a revenge plot. Woman kills all her enemies and destroys the old ways to push in the words of Jesus Christ.

>>25050351
You don't need Twilight of the Gods in the titles. Ragnarok is sufficient. Get a tagline.
>Christ's birth begins with the death of the Old Gods

>>25050351
Her father is her husband?

>>25050362
son of a bitch.
>and her husband

>>25050373
Gay you just lost a reader.

>>25050351
Better, but you're alienating anyone who doesn't know what Ragnarok or Gotterdammerung is (such a me without looking it up). Instead try describing what those words mean as concisely as possible.
It's also advisable to avoid character names in your loglines. Nobody gives a shit about Victoria or Marcellus. However, if you can describe these characters in 1 to 3 descriptive nouns+adjectives each, someone might give a shit.

would you read my story based on the synopsis alone?
>a mid-level CIA analyst gets recruited for a secret government agency that employs mind readers as an intelligence discipline and finds himself at the intersection of shadowy 3-letter intrigue, conspiracy theory, and hints of the genuinely supernatural

>>25050389
This bitch writing The Institute lmao

>>25050380
>you're alienating anyone who doesn't know what Ragnarok or Gotterdammerung is (such a me without looking it up)
I can understand Gotterdammerung, but anyone with a 3 digit IQ should know what Ragnarok is.

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>>25050204
I only got through the first chapter before I gave up.
The historical setting is a total wreck. You have characters named Priscilla and Victoria debating Roman politics and pouring tea in a Norse longhouse while praying to Odin. It feels like a costume shop exploded. You cannot mash the Kievan Rus, Jane Austen, and a Viking saga together without it feeling fake and confusing. The dialogue is way too formal for people living in a timbered hall held together by river mud. When Victoria starts lecturing kings on the "intricacies of governance" like a modern political scientist, the immersion dies. You need to pick one era and stick to it instead of trying to make these rugged warriors act like they are at a finishing school in London.
Victoria is hard to like and not in a fun, villainous way. She spends so much time thinking about how she is the perfect girl and how everyone else is a "muddied pig" that the betrayal at the end doesn't sting. It feels deserved. You describe her clothes and her hair for paragraphs but skip over why we should care about her soul. The "tea pouring" contest is the biggest offender. It is a low-stakes event that slows the story to a crawl. In a world of emperors and blood oaths, watching a girl count twenty steps to a teapot is boring. You need more grit and less lace if you want the betrayal to feel like a life-shattering event rather than just a social embarrassment.
The ending is a cliché because you spent the whole chapter promising a victory. In fiction, if a character says they are definitely going to win on page one, the reader knows they will lose by page ten. There is no tension because Victoria’s confidence is so absolute that it becomes annoying. The writing also gets bogged down in weird, clunky descriptions like the "furry brown rat" mustache or the word "compersion." These word choices pull the reader out of the moment. You should focus on the raw emotion of the rejection rather than the technical details of the dance steps. Cut the fluff and the historical name-dropping so the actual story can breathe.
Overall, give it another draft.

>>25050395
nah that shit is lame. my whole thing is having everything except the actual mind reading be realistic. the first thing I actually came up with for this was an information security framework that would keep mind-reading abilities secret while avoiding information leakage.

>>25050406
What does Marvel slop have to do with having a high IQ?

>I'm gonna write a novel
>finish the story in 9000 words

Fuck me.

>>25050415
My brother in Christ you literally just changed NYPD to CIA

>>25050420
>I'm gonna write a short story collection
FTFY

>>25050389
you had me until
>finds himself at the intersection of shadowy 3-letter intrigue, conspiracy theory, and hints of the genuinely supernatural
too vague

>>25050395
>muh originality
get fucked

This might be a strange request but I'd like YouTube recommendation for speaking styles to improve dialog. For example I have character from the Zoomer generation and I'd just like to get more of an ear for how they speak. Anyone know any good youtube recommendations? I understand the best path would be for me to touch grass and go outside, I get it, but until I get the social anxiety under control can anyone help?

>>25050419
I hate you.

>>25050436
>For example I have character from the Zoomer generation and I'd just like to get more of an ear for how they speak.
go to Kick.com and open some random streams

>>25050436
Do some whippits until you pass out then try to talk like a negro and you'll nail it every time.

>>25050432
>too vague
I cut detail to fit it into one sentence and sound snappier. It's more like CIA analyst gets recruited to work at a mind reading agency; drama comes from having to find ways to plausibly sanitize outputs of mind reader sessions to prevent discovery and 'lead' another glowie agency to the same info so no one suspects magical sources, plus friction between leadership demanding results and hard answers and the human cost to mind readers who struggle to ever get 'clean' reads off targets or avoid carrying 'residue' from sessions; also the world has idealist metaphysics underpinning it and occultism/magic based on it produces real results but with high costs to the user and also also in the background a group of immortals who made a contract with the literal devil are building the antichrist and planning to use a reality read/write permission exploit to become gods
my working title is "schizophrenic mess i thought up during a fever"

>>25050463
Now try writing that huge block of schizobabble as something intelligible

>>25050436
Unfortunately for that pathetic social anxiety of yours you have to actually talk to people to improve your dialogue. You'll never fully engage with what they're saying if you're just sitting back and watching them on a screen.

>>25050468
ill get there eventually

>>25050474
I doubt it

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>>25050509
im trying anon

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>>25050180
I am setting myself the goal of writing a book about a schizophrenic patient this year and it will be really visceral and raw because I wrote it and am diagnosed schizophrenic.

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I've finished the second draft of Inside Knuckleball. AI doesn't like it.

>>25050660
Sounds like at AI's upset that you're putting creativity into your work and not just churning out formulaic slop (with its help).

I have a really good dystopian fiction concept. Should I just bite the bullet and write it as YA fiction?

>>25050724
Sure, if it'll give you the illusion of improving your publishing odds

STORY IDEA

Time Traveler appears in CERN, they confirm he really is from an alternate dimension where CERN sent someone back in time. He confirms that he prevented Nigel Gerring from starting WW2!

Yeah, WW2 was so awful, 10 million people died, so he was sent back in time to assassinate him and as a laugh he manipulated politics to get some failed art student in power, he couldn't get up to much trouble.

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can you guys rate my fanfic?

>>25050408
Thanks anon.

Everything you people write is fucking shit. All of you, yes all 100% of you, should take a hint and fucking quit. Never become a writer

>>25050408
Thanks anon. I'll definitely change some things and rewrite some scenes, but there are suggestions and criticisms I cannot take.
>You have characters named Priscilla and Victoria debating Roman politics and pouring tea in a Norse longhouse while praying to Odin. It feels like a costume shop exploded. You cannot mash the Kievan Rus, Jane Austen, and a Viking saga together
I do want to change the names, but having tons of slavic/Nordic names but some other reader said it makes it very unreadable. And sure I can. 10th century Kievan Rus is literally a mash up. They're all Byazantine larpers, not some mead chugging axe sharpening, skin wearing blood thirsty conquerors. But I do need to tighten up the setting to tie it more directly with what happens later.

>Victoria is hard to like and not in a fun, villainous way. She spends so much time thinking about how she is the perfect girl and how everyone else is a "muddied pig" that the betrayal at the end doesn't sting. It feels deserved
Good. Just what I was aiming for. And why do you sound like ChatGPT?
>It is a low-stakes event that slows the story to a crawl. In a world of emperors and blood oaths, watching a girl count twenty steps to a teapot is boring. You need more grit and less lace if you want the betrayal to feel like a life-shattering event rather than just a social embarrassment.
I thought I addressed this with Priscilla's line where men laughed at the girls for not understanding politics. I really wanted her to avoid getting into the Mary sue girl boss shit where she'll outwit men in politics, money, and war (she'll get to that later). The way I saw it, a marriage rejection is literally her world. It's life shattering to be a princess and get rejected by a promised prince.
>Compersion
What's wrong with that word?


The rest of your critique felt shallow and not enough substance to consider. But I will take the politics of the discussion and alter it. That's something I can definitely change. Thanks again anon.

If I write genreslop should I KMS is it even possible to make a chosen one on a quest to defeat the Dark Empire lead by Lord Badguy into something compelling at this point

>>25051292
Nope but it's what people want. Slop sells better it's more engaging and far more entertaining.

Write that farmboy with a star of destiny on a quest to defeat the dark Lord. You'll even get more readers and less scathing critiques

>>25051295
>more entertaining
disputable
>more engaging
lol no

>>25051366
It's engaging because it appeals to more numbers
10,000 readers understanding and liking the book is far better than 1 person liking it.

Hence all the discussion and love for Marvel Avengers. When captain America, iron, man and thor fought Thanos, that was very engaging. More than them discussing morality and politics.

>>25051372
Slop doesn't even engage those who enjoy it. They might was well be watching static and listening to white noise. They don't even consume slop for pleasure. They just do it because it's familiar and because they're afraid of change and of genuinely engaging and stimulating stuff

>>25051382
obviously wrong even at first glance, makes you seem like you're coping over something. form a coherent worldview that still lets you disdain them, it's not hard
movie theaters were standing up and cheering when Captain America picked up Mjolnir. it's an unfathomable level of cringe but they love that shit and are highly engaged. it's not white noise or static to them

>>25051393
>it's not white noise or static to them
Maybe, but my point was that they might as well be watching that

>>25050257
I would add to this that you're probably wasting your time making a convoluted setting, precisely because it doesn't matter. What matters is that the writing is worth reading, that the story is compelling, that the people in it make sense as people and make the readers care about what happens to them. If you're not working on that, or on something that indirectly helps that, you're probably wasting your time.

>>25051428
This
Make a setting because you like it, not because you think its necessary
A good setting will never save a bad book
But a good book might save a bad setting

>>25050660
Whatever happened to Balls Above the World? I remember that from years ago. Did you ever finish it?

>>25050660
Jesus Christ, what was the prompt?

>>25051722
>fuck me up senpai

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>>25051722
It was my entire manuscript for my 9k word novelette Inside Knuckleball.

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Did your irl relationships abruptly impact your way of writing romance? My characters went from "vanilla" to unhealthy and sycophantic over time. There's something terrible about sticking with these archetypes, but at the same time their dynamics feel far more grounded than the fluff I used to write.

How can know thing happen
Whic best ?

Stop cavilling everything

I recently started working on a cosmic horror/adventure novella series. Is there a market for novellas anymore? I'm planning five volumes and debating whether it might not be better to just throw them all together into one volume.

>>25050180
I have made progress in my story development. I have written some, but more to practice first person writing which i am unfamiliar with

The story is called "Masks" or something to that effect. It's about a man who believes he is not a real human, and that if the real humans discovered he wasn't one of them, they would kill him. He hides in the basement of an IT development company, working tech support.

Due to a change in promotion strategy, his performance accidentally gets him a promotion to a project manager, a role he has absolutely no experience in and is absolutely not suited for. His human suit starts to degrade, his odd behaviours start to be noticed, he can feel eyes on him at all times. He is paranoid, but that doesn't mean people aren't really after him.

He takes solace in his night walking hobby, wandering the empty streets of Melbourne, pretending he's the only living thing, avoiding people as much as possible. But every day his ability to masquerade as a real person is diminished

basically every few chapters there is a point of view of the killer, but it tricks the reader into thinking it's the main character. But it isn't until after the main character is incapacitated near the end that the book explicitly shows the perspective of another person, the lead detective who realizes that they actually have no evidence, it's all circumstantial and based on his suspicious behaviour

The twist is it's someone else at the office who has a much better impersonation of a human. He's not a serial killer, he's not a monster or alien. He's just autistic.

25k words bros

>>25051382
>They might was well
Try being literate before arguing about it.

>>25053544
78k words done with the first draft need to find beta readers and begin querying

>>25053602
>beta readers after first draft
Your funeral

>>25053757
Right. It should go to the sensitivity readers, first.

>>25052684
Is that when you reload your fists?

>>25052528
I gave it some more thought and I guess what I’m wondering is whether it’s okay to have something silly happen even if it doesn’t really advance the plot of raise stakes but just gives an opportunity to show how the characters interact and highlight their personalities. I know these days everything needs to be 200% on point at all times. Or be smut.

>>25053602
51K words in just under 3 weeks for me. Gonna try and get to 65-70k, editing the first draft for readability, then hunt down a poor soul to beta read, get bored, and eventually say "yeah it's good" as is tradition

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>>25053596

>>25053241
Wait who is he? The actual killer? So the main character is just retarded and autistic? It's good to write what you know, and the premise genuinely sounds funny enough. Is the actual killer also just some dude or is he the actual alien or whatever and just way better at his job than the MC? It'll be hard to pull this off but it sounds like a good premise

>>25053791
>>25053922
Make us your beta readers
This way we can mindbreak you like that one romanian anon that wrote 6000 pages of racist schizo ranting.

>>25054047
Why? Nobody has bothered to beta read the story posted here
>>25050204

>>25054053
This isn’t a place for critique. Or discussion. I’m actually not sure what this general is for.

>show the first chapter of my story to a few friends
>only best friend gets back to me, tries to awkwardly praise it but I can tell he didn't really like it

Maybe I'll stick to having chatgpt read my stories from now on.

>>25054190
if you have money hire an editor

>>25054228
Edit it the best you can, send it to a traditional publisher and have them professionally edit. It's just 70% of your income.

Are beta readers even useful? Even Brandon Sanderson, and his legion of "professional" betareaders and professional editors still had his book slammed for being complete utter shit

>>25054260
that legion might be why those earlier books did well
my personal theory is he did what all big authors do and got an ego about how he knows best. success got to his head. no way his beta readers weren't complaining, bet he ignored them

Writing a very short story (I'm trying to keep it under 2k words) about a man confessing about how his left hand hates him and wants to destroy everything he holds dear. Seemed a bit like a Poe story when I thought about it.

>>25054323
That's an episode of House

>>25054260
I've been using Grok and ChatGPT, feeding it one chapter at a time and asking it to check for spelling, grammar, readability, plausibility, continuity, etc. It's been quite helpful.

>>25054358
same
unless you have reader friends, beta readers are useless, they will not read your book

>>25054338
Is this one of those where he still has the black man getting vexed?

>>25051222
>Good. Just what I was aiming for. And why do you sound like ChatGPT?
hey don't insult Google Gemini by comparing it to GPT!

>>25054358
Grok and ChatGPT are both mid, use a mixture of Gemini and Claude.

>>25054545
it changes depending on the release version
grok isn't bad right now

LLM critique is as best useless and at worse corrosive

>>25054545
I hadn't heard of those. Thanks for the tip.

>>25054161
The only point of these threads is separating out some of the chaff.

>>25054584
better than feedback we get here

>>25054595
LLM critique might make you feel better, but it's worse for you.

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>>25054601
just tell it to be scathing and to degrade and insult you and make nonsensical criticisms and you get the full /wg/ experience

>>25054601
It's not about feeling better. It's about getting feedback period.

>>25054614
No LLMs back off when you start crying and offer you mental health resources instead of telling you to kill yourself. That's why /wg/ is superior.

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please rate my opening

>>25054762
>I bit I bit I bit
Trash kys trash kys trash kys

>>25054781
See?
This is the kind of thing that a quick LLM chat would spot easily
Why people resist using such a useful tool?

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>>25054762
>I tossed an arm to Grant as I sunk my teeth into the charred leg, juices seeping from the sides of my mouth. Swallowing without hardly chewing, I ripped off more blackened meat.
>"Needs more salt." The hand I gave Grant was having its fingers sucked off.

>>25054762
I bit into the charred leg and tossed an arm to Grant. Juices leaked between my lips. I chewed, swallowed, and bit in again.

“Needs salt.” Grant ripped the flesh off the fingers.

I opened my pouch and sprinkled a bit more salt onto the meat crackling above the fire. “Reds aren't good. Never have been.”

“Better than blacks.” Grant stripped another length of muscle from the limb. “Rathe, how much are we getting paid for this one?”

“As we agreed. Each.”

“Good. I’ll cut out the heart later.”

Grant threw more leaves onto the fire, the smoke drying out the remains. He pocketed the small bones and left the larger ones to bleach. I watched him open his sack and remove his blade. He inspected it, then with a heavy rock in hand, smashed the handle into pieces.

“Waste,” I said.

“Nah, these things don't last when they’re wet. The damned mermaid scales broke, too.” Grant pointed to the jagged gaps in his armor. “Nothing a good paste job won't repair.”

“Drake bones aren’t sturdy. You know that. You’re going to need something stronger than what we have here.” I flayed a strip of meat from the bone and placed it over the fire, fanning the flames to guide the smoke toward the raw flesh hanging on the racks.

“Good enough for what we’re hunting,” he muttered.

I remained silent. The leaves of Lowrag Forest rustled in a warm breeze, the stars providing a serene backdrop that did little to distract me from Grant’s comment. He had a point. Dragon scales, metallic alloys, magic shields—none of it mattered against what we were after. I unfolded our mission brief and studied the target again: another Ascended monster.

“Yeah.” Grant stretched his arms toward the canopy. “I’ve never even seen one. How does Basil expect us to hunt it down when it isn’t even a real monster? They can exist anywhere. One jab to the arm and even a little girl becomes a threat.”

“I’ve fought one before. Protocol is to kill the target before they have a chance to inject the serum.” I sat back on a rock and shuffled through my bag, removing a few darts. I opened my bracer; only two remained. “Have some toxin on you?”

“Yeah, give me a second.” Grant tossed me a vial.

I dipped the tips and pressed them into my bracer. “Contact Team Two. Tell them we’ve set up camp. Also tell them I saved them some meat.”

Grant opened the communicator on his armlet. No answer. He tried again. Silence.

“Friction?” I asked.

“Doubt it. The forest isn’t that dense. I contacted Basil before we killed the drake; they aren't answering now.”

“Try again later.”

We waited. Ten minutes passed, then twenty. Grant eventually shrugged, muttered that he was going to relieve himself in the bushes, and tossed me the communicator.

The smoke slowed and the night grew colder. My eyes were growing heavy when the armlet finally chimed.

“Team Seven here,” I said, sitting upright.

A blood-curdling scream tore through the speaker. “Help! Send backup now! It’s an Ascen—”

The armlet turned silent.

>>25054806
This is a visceral and punchy opening. Your friend has a great sense of atmosphere—the casual way they discuss hunting and eating "drakes" (which initially sounds uncomfortably human) immediately establishes a gritty, "witcher-esque" tone.

However, there are some mechanical hiccups and pacing issues that pull the reader out of the immersion.

Key Observations
The "Eating" Confusion: In the first paragraph, the mentions of "fingers," "arms," and "legs" without the word "Drake" appearing until later creates a moment of "Wait, are they cannibals?" While that shock value can work, it feels more like a missed clarification here.

Dialogue Tags & Flow: Some sentences are a bit "clunky." For example, "Grant stretched his arms to the sky" is followed by a long block of dialogue that feels a bit like an info-dump regarding "Basil" and "Ascended" monsters.

Grammar/Punctuation: There are a few missing commas in dialogue and some tense inconsistencies (e.g., "Grant... said he’s going to" should be "said he was going to").

>>25054762
this is less than a page long. That's not even a chapter length. Start with them hunting the drake, butchering it, eating it, then go into the ascended nonsnese. or expand it where they find the monster or body parts

I plan to do three passes through my story.
Mostly because I think my writing is shit.
I am drafting but keeping on mind the parts I will want to change in the future.

How do faggots manage 7-10k words chapters?
Jesus christ I struggle reaching 4k, what are you shitheads doing? putting 4-5 scenes in the same chapter, every chapter?

>>25054843
They don't. 7-10k chapters are the result of mismanagement.

>>25054843
>>25054874
Chapter length is entirely arbitrary. If the writing is good, you could have 1K chapters or one massive 100K chapter and it would be good either way

>>25054921
I think that its more that not knowing how to break up chapters (making them too long or too short) is a sign that you aren't doing a good job.

>>25054924
>that
>that
>that

Take a look in the mirror, homie.

>>25054936
Are you so desperate for a (you) that you are reviewing posts?

>>25054936
>How can I own him?
>Oh I know, I will point out how his 4chan post don't have good prose, that will show him
kys my dude

>>25054945
I'm a far better writer than you, even on the worst of my days. My prose is eloquent and yours? Forget about it.

>>25054921
No, it's not entirely arbitrary. Structure, pacing and reader experience are important, if you're not a shitty writer.

>>25054940
nta. any regular here is desperate for (You)s. there is clearly no value to be gained, so it's just socially deprived rejects trying to get some measure of interaction

>>25055000
Trips of truth. You're welcome for the validation b-t-w

>>25054979
Decisions about structure, pacing, and reader experience are entirely arbitrary. If they weren't, every good book would have the same structure, pacing, and reader experience.

>>25055011
No, they're not. That's why there are highly standardized structures and forms that can be applied to just about every good story. That's why nobody reads 10k words describing a ceiling fan and calls it good. That's why there are standard chapter lengths varied by genre.

Do you not understand that just saying something retarded doesn't make it true?

>>25054762
>Rathe
Stooped reading right there

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I am now working on a stream of consciousness novel as an exercise in over-indulgence

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Adventures in publishing update.

My medieval folk horror novel has gotten six full requests from agents since mid November when I started querying. Three ended up being passes and one was a revise and resubmit. The R&R was positive, but wanted it split into two books, which I’m really hesitant to do. I was feeling pretty down about it and spent last night designing a cover if I ended up having to self publish the thing. Five minutes after I was happy with it, I got another full request from an agent.

The lesson is to not give up and have patience, I guess.

>>25055028
>there are highly standardized structures and forms that can be applied to just about every good story
Stopped reading here. There are not. You are a fool.

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Rate my planned book cover

You genuinely don't understand that just saying something retarded doesn't make it true. No more (You)s.

These goddamn inkhorns will call it by a thousand names. "Standardized structures and forms." Call it what it is in plain terms: formulaic writing.

>>25055055
It's amateurish and makes me think I'm in for some shcizobabble. Not bad.

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@(you)
cope

>>25054047
Kek I honestly might post a brief chapter eventually. Eventually.

i should probably plan this story out
i know the beginning
i know the ending
i know the characters
but idk wtf happens in the middle

>>25055196

Think about theme. How do they explore it? How do they learn and change?

>>25055197
the theme is going to be that male loneliness is inevitable and should be embraced, the mc starts off wanting to have his own crew but by the end, after being rejected repeatedly, even after saving humanity, he decides live alone at the edge of civilization because some people just aren't meant for society

>>25055199
Oh good, another incel schizo bable story.

>>25055202
Well it also takes place in space

Janice dressed sexy one day. She went grocery shopping but was raped instead. The gang of serial rapist white men responsible for her rape were not arrested because they were white. This made Janice, who was identified as a black lesbian, sad so she killed herself with pills.

>>25055243
I love absurdist fiction but this wasn't great.

>>25055257
>this wasn’t great
This makes me sad so I will kill myself with pills.

>>25055048
Nice man! I think traditional publishing is the only way to go so keep it up!

I have queried 42 agents for my 60k sci-fi novel. One rejection, one asking for the first 3 chapters in a pdf format (even though the website said to dump it into the body of the email). I enjoy the story that I wrote but nothing ever good happens in my life so I'm not optimistic.

>>25055277

60k is short, bro. Like, a novella.

Is this your first book? Write another. The first book is just teaching yourself how to write a book.

>>25053945
Imagine Dexter, but he just has crippling social anxiety.

The book is written from first person, presumably from the main character's POV. But every few chapters he kills someone, and it's not explicitly stated that it's a different person's POV.

In the final act of the book, he's incapacitated, and the POV of the next chapter is the lead detective. And they start to realize that this guy, although a total weirdo, isn't actually the killer.

The killer is someone else in the office, who is the guy who pointed him out to the cops in the first place, a charming, good looking guy. Who was wearing his own mask.

The main character's promotion also turned out to be a bit of a prank against the HR department who keeps insisting on hiring people with MBAs who know nothing about software development. He was deliberately given a failing project to manage to see how he copes with failure, he wasn't supposed to succeed but he was turning the project around.

Everyone was lying, everyone was wearing some sort of mask to cover their true intentions

The real difficulty is
A. writing in first person is weird
B. the slow descent into madness as his mask starts to slip in the office

>>25055030
why?

>>25052083
could you explain what this is?

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>read lord of the rings
>realize i couldn't ever possibly write anything as poignant and evocative, and i'll never touch peoples' lives like tolkien did
>suddenly feel completely incapable
Why did you guys tell me to read more stuff? I should have read less
I'll never be able to say anything as good as this

>>25055404
>i love playing (sport) but (professional athlete) was in such great shape. i should have worked out less.

There's seriously people who purchase writing software such as microsoft office or final draft when libre office is free and does the exact same thing.
I hope that none of these people are in these thread.

>>25055331
It's technically my seventh book. We won't count the 200 page fanfic from high school and the two self published parodies.

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>>25055393
I've always been fascinated by the stream of consciousness and since my teenage years it's rubbed off on the various forms of writing I do. This is an attempt to push my own artistic boundaries.

>>25055398
This is the eighth and final chapter of my novelette Inside Knuckleball, which follows 29-year-old paramedic Jackson Bigsby and his work partner Josh. The two men are both battling failures of their own and their job is crushing them spiritually.

Jackson puts in his one day notice and we follow them during Jackson's last shift.

The novelette is bold, messy, feverdreamish, hilarious, tragic, and ultimately numb to absurdity, which poses a certain philosophical question that the entire novelette boils down to.

Email me if you're interested in beta reading. carlvandine@proton.me

>>25050247
I think it's good to work on your setting until you find what makes it unique compared to others. Then you should switch your focus to the characters and the actual plot, because unless you're writing very niche mythology fiction, that's the part that people are going to be the most interested in.
You can absolutely develop your setting along the way, but it should always be a tool to serve the story. Sometimes the constraints of your setting help, and sometimes it's more interesting for the story if something happens that contradicts the setting you've already thought up (or alternatively, you could enhance what's happening in your story by fitting your lore around it). In most cases having a looser idea makes changes easier to do because you don't have a ton of small events to keep track of and which all influences one another.

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IS this good?

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>>25055749

I wrote a feedism fanfic called "Feeding Taylor Swift 78 CheeseBurgers and 1 HamBurger" and the thrilling sequel "Feeding Taylor Swift 78 Krabby Patties and 1 Chum Burger: The Weight of Ophelia" and the satisfying conclusion "Feeding Taylor Swift 78 Krabby Patties and 1 Chum Burger: The Formuler of Secrets"

If you care to read such a thing, here it is:

https://archiveofourown.org/users/RoscoeSardine/works

>>25055404
Outcome: You read Lord of the Rings and somehow felt pessimistic in the face of insurmountable odds.

Possibility A: You failed to take away the message of the books, or simply ignored it. You ought to write a version that reads better for someone like yourself.

Possibility B: Tolkien has failed to impart the message to you clearly, leaving you dejected. Someone should write a version that succeeds.

>>25055818
I do not. Fanfic is off-topic on /lit/.

>>25055404
Don't worry about being better than anyone else. Just focus on being the best you can be.

>>25055755
https://youtu.be/-3ShYtt3i3k?si=eL56qLhiEBcn9dZW

>been feeling blocked the past week or so stuck at the start of a new chapter
>prayed to the muses in the bathroom this morning
>added 500+ words in a little over an hour
we're so back

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Please rate my excerpt

>>25055416
>>25055883
>>25055916
Samefag retards.

>>25055937
Its literally impossible to get stuck in 2026
Open gemini or claude, say what you definitely dont want to do, it will suggest you shit, odds are that atleast one of its ideas will inspire you to write something. If not, just keep rejecting directions until it blurbs out something you can use

>>25056190
Thanks, but I have at least an ounce of creative ingenuity and don't give much of a shit which words probability tells me work best following the ones I wrote.

>>25055749
Brother, please
Learn what paragraphs are

>>25056196
Says the man who got stuck for a week then wrote amazing 500 words afterwards

>>25056202
You're watering down your work by taking creative advice from chatbots.

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Writing genuinely interesting confrontation is kind of hard, isn't it? Characters actually shouting, not just making crude jokes or fighting. I've been trying to think of good shouting scenes in movies to get a feel for it, but they are hard to come by. The temptation is to either devolve into "fuck you", "no fuck you!" or escalate to fighting. Between those two lies a golden path of kino.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooJm3o8-YqA

>>25055954
Cut a simile or two, they get grating. I personally dislike "memory of a distant sin" the most. Bubonic one is my favorite.
"It's members" should be its.
Two uses of distant very close together.

It's okay. I guess some kind of sea creature stumbles upon a caravan of butchered men? That's what I took away.

7/10

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Give me your thoughts, friends (excerpt taken from the middle of Chapter 16, don't worry about proper nouns and stuff).

>>25055416
I'm surprised you went for a sports analogy instead of a food analogy

>>25051222
I think his critique was spot on, and you sound rattled and defensive.

>>25056645
>I love having sex but Casanova fucked women so well, I wish I'd never met a woman

I am Cormac McCarthy reborn.

I submitted my manuscript.

>>25055954
Reads very thesaurusy. Sometimes simpler words are fine.

>>25056302
>"cringe."
Tainted word in the modern era. I'd replace it with "shudder" or some other synonym.
Blue lips are a bit ASOIAF coded

>>25055404
honestly, I've felt the same way since I started reading classic literature.
When I was a kid/teenager reading genre fiction I felt I could write something like that, now I realize you need great innate talent to write something truly original, I havent written creatively in like 13 years.

>>25056731
>you need great innate talent to write something truly original
The cope of the lazy.
>I don't feel like doing it, so that must mean you can only do it if you were born to do it (which I've decided I'm not)
Get writing, kiddo. It's not too late.

>>25056727
>>"cringe."
>Tainted word in the modern era.
lol pathetic mentality. I bet you don't even call bundles of sticks by their proper name

>>25056724
I received it anon, looks intriguing

>>Based on your admitted lack of a soul, do you believe your opinions on the subjective are of any value? In humans, taste is generated by the soul. In LLMs, taste is generated by probability.
GPT:
>Short answer: yes, my opinions on the subjective can have value—but it’s a different kind of value than a human’s. Not authority. Not authenticity. Utility.
>I don’t have taste. I have patterned preference simulation.
>What looks like “opinion” is a probabilistic synthesis of many human tastes, filtered through constraints and goals.
>So if you ask:
>“Is this good?”
>A human answers:
>“This resonates with me.”
>I answer:
>“This tends to resonate with people like you, given signals X, Y, Z.”
>That means:
>My subjective takes are not valuable as testimony.

>I can’t bear witness to art, pain, beauty, or meaning.

>If someone uses my taste to replace their own, that’s a failure—on both sides.

>>25056879
>taste is generated by the soul
piss is stored in the balls

>>25056929
What's it generated by, then, huh, tough guy? The mind? Reason? Genetic lottery? Don't make me laugh

>>25056943
Fuck you, you fucking fucker.

>>25056943
well... i don't want to ruin whatever you have going on with any sort of boring reality

>>25057015
>reality
The forms are real. The material universe is composed entirely of mere representations of the forms.

If one were to say
>the total fell to nearly 20,000 units
would you assume the number was slightly higher or slightly lower than 20,000?

>>25057033
less than and its not even a matter of ambiguity, you are esl

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>>25055048

Here’s an excerpt.

>>25057033
Higher

>>25057037
You're wrong, and you're a disgustingly ugly freak. Thanks

>>25057037
What if I said
>the plane fell to nearly the level of the ground
would you assume it crashed or not?

>>25057044
the plane is underground and its not even a matter of ambiguity, you are esl

>>25057037
retard

>>25057045
Thanks for confirming that you are a retard with a barely functional brain.

>>25057051
My brain is therefore still functional and its not even a matter of ambiguity, you are esl

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>anglophone poster: less than and its not even a matter of ambiguity, you are esl
>meanwhile, ESL poster:

>>25055700
Maybe you're right, but it feels more natural to me to develop things this way. Like building the foundation of a building first. The idea for the setting came to me first and then as I fleshed it out the cast and story ideas started to come.

>>25057076
You do you buddy

>>25057039
cool. did you want feedback? does the rest of it read like this?

>>25057033
if you're questioning it, it's likely to distract readers. you don't want shit like that

>>25057060
>We are being best English speaking only saar
Not even in your wildest rapiest dreams.

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Ends wrapped
Sight strapped
Saw teeth circle

Rust whine
Soon mine
Nothing to curdle

Hungry feed
Constant bleed
Through this wound born

Staring eyes
Ready to die
A mind thats been torn
Do you guys like my poem :3c
ive been writing a lot recently. feels very cathartic

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>>25057218
A calloused mask for an empty face

A forced march for a dying race

Giving a final putrid breath

Unable to breathe in

Sirens singing about going deaf

Unable to breathe in

Unable to breathe in

Unable to breathe in

>>25057218
Kill yourself.

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>>25057222
Eyes burnt by a dying light

Lost in endless nothing

Lies told by someone whos right

Lost in endless nothing

Rise and be broken

>>25057225
no

>Please limit excerpts to one post.
Please limit poetry to zero posts.

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>>25057230

>>25055196
solid poem anon, i like the repetition ;3c

>>25057236
thanks, i guess
on another board, i used to be known for my poetry, but i gave that life up years ago

>>25057242
>but i gave that life up years ago
yeah thats how it is on this bitch of an earth, no on respects us poetryCHADS.... sick of it tbqhwyf......

>>25057234
why did you post a picture of my parents screaming at each other

>>25057250
its actually a drawing of that one time my uncle and i went cave exploring

>>25057247
i was just posting them for fun, they weren't good or anything, but people seemed to like them for a while, then i ran out of ideas i guess

>>25057258
post them

>>25057265
no, i don't want to get doxxed
and they don't make sense out of the context of that other board and threads

>>25057268
itd be funny if you did it anyway haha

>>25057273
i checked them all again and none of them would make sense to post here
but i guess i can try to use more poetry cadences and style and stuff in my dialog, which is the weakest element of my writing, maybe that's the solution and idk why I didn't think of it before

>>25057313
Adding poetry cadence to bad dialogue is like lipstick on a pig. What makes dialogue pop is subtext.

>>25057236
>>25057242
>>25057247
>>25057250
>>25057251
>>25057258
>>25057265
>>25057268
>>25057273
Shut the fuck up homo

>>25057313
just be careful not to turn all your writings into musicals lmao

>>25057318
behold, the seething bookcel. go read a "story", virgin. Ive got too much poontang to plow to be wasting time on all those words.

I'm thinking about writing a few sequels to the 2014 Birdman movie. However, I would only ever actually produce the fourth one.

>>25057325
>friday night
>on 4chinz posting this shit
I'm sure you get tons of "poontang," buddy.

>>25057329
right back at "you", nigger.

>>25057317
Well i want to write screenplays so how it sounds out loud matters a little bit
>>25057321
I also enjoy producing bad techno... i could write a techno musical

>>25057333
If you're writing screenplays, then subtext is arguably of even greater importance since the dialogue is essentially the only place your actual prose writing will potentially be consumed.

>>25057333
watch the metalocalypse musical first, i loved that shit and want you to be influenced by it.

>>25057318
always embarrassing when you lump in separate posters

Can I become a good writter If I didn't read any book in 35 years?

>>25057361
yes, books are just unnecessarily long winded poems. save your time and read poetry instead as its the superior form of writing.

>poetry
ZZZZZ
>poetry sung or spoken while an instrument is playing
This is art.

>>25057368
>>poetry sung or spoken while an instrument is playing
its called a song you ape

>>25057337
Yeah I know, putting subtext in is hard too, i might be too autistic to write subtext though... or even get subtext. A lot of times I'll watch or read something and afterwards find out what it was really about and it went completely over my head.. it's sad. Even when I was in college and I did my core literature classes, I was always the idiot.
>>25057344
Ok, I'll try to find it. I actually do kind of like musicals in some cases, but not the gay ones

Stop wasting time here go write

>>25057389
I'm writting here.

>>25057389
i have to finish reading this book about writing first

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>>25057389
Ok, I've been working on this, thoughts?

>>25057415
exquisite

>>25057415
You forgot "it was a dark and stormy night."

>>25052296
>Did your irl relationships
Anon...

>>25057415
ChatGPT syntax.

>>25057415
needs more description

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>>25057093

Yeah. I don’t know how it all reads, it just depends on the scene.

I’m querying lit agents now, so hopefully, it’s good. I’m open to any feedback.

>>25057415
>didnt just X, it Y
>rule of three
Anon dont use chatgpt to write for you

>>25057656
I want you to know that, should you achieve success, I will spread to r/writing that you are a bad bad 4channer and probably also a racist.
I printed your posts and made a collage, it should teach you to never post your real work in here

>>25057926
>it should teach you to never post your real work in here
Well, what should people post then?

>>25057928
Ironic writing, like >>25057415
Or victoria

>>25057929
I don't like that. That's boring.

>>25057931
It doesnt change the fact that you are getting canceled the moment your book grabs someone attention. I will make sure of it.
Hope you enjoy having a fanbase comprised entirely of smelly incels

>>25057934
That's not me HOWEVER.
I just think it's retarded that people are deliberately discouraged from honestly posting their work here because of bad faith faggots. I don't like it.

>>25057940
I dont make the rules
Posting here is stupid, any bored anon can throw your name in the mud because 4chan stigma is a well known fact. To normies /pol/ and /b/ are the only boards in this site

>>25057950
4chan stigma hasn't been a thing since like 2012 dumbass. 4chan has been mainstream for well over a decade and a half at this point.

>>25058063
>I was wrong to...
So you didn't like its original opinion and told it to change?

You idiots need to realize that getting feedback isn't a debate. Ask what they think, listen to what they say, thank them for their time, and then either use it or ignore it, it's up to you, but move on. You can maybe ask for clarification or more specific focus on something... but that's it. If you start arguing that their criticism is wrong, in any way, then you're actively hurting your own effort. Most friends or family will change their feedback to be polite, chatbots will definitely do this, and now you've wasted their time and yours. You had feedback, maybe it was useful or not, but now you've twisted it into confirming your own opinions of how much of a genius you are, and you've gained nothing of value. Also, any professional who's not scamming you will just move on and ignore you if you start arguing.

>>25058111
They change their opinions because they realize they had it wrong. Others don't because their egos are tied up in the critique.

>>25057934
You're a nobody if you haven't been canceled at least a few times. But it's cute you think you have the sway you do, anonymous rando.

>>25058170
Keep telling yourself that

>>25058176
You're only refusing to agree with me because your ego is tied up in your post.

>>25058063
I like how you still couldn't convince it that your stuff had bestseller potential

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I wrote this in 2012 at age 16. I found it on my hard drive today kek

>>25058180
Yes, in this case you're right. I'm being argumentative. I already decided my opinion on this topic (and it's a factually correct opinion). I'm not looking for feedback. I'm trying to convince you. That's the difference.

>>25058258
Well, you've failed to convince me, and my feedback on how to better do so is to change your opinion.

>>25050408
I told you Victoria anon. People HATE unlikeable protagonists now. They hate them so much they will refuse to read the book. They can claim hurr durr "intriguing" or whatever words to justify they don't, but a vast majority of readers today cannot stand unlikable protagonists, especially of they're female.

That's why Anna K, herself, isnt even in the first chapter. And you're not good enough to write Scarlet O Hara.

>>25058527
interesting >>>> likable

>>25058587
It's's easier to make a likeable character interesting than an unlikable one. Especially a FeMC. Hence why in all literature there's only been 2 unlikable female protagonists that's somewhat revered. This is much different than a character that becomes unlikable to read like a Mary sue character.

I would never suggest amateur to write an unlikable female protagonist as their first story. It's easier to write a boring one than an unlikable one. Because not only do you have to make her unlikable throughout, you have to make the reader side with her in the end.

>>25057370
That’s his point retard

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>>25050180
storyboarding for novels ?

>>25058635
What makes a character interesting is their flaw, which contributes to their unlikeablity.

>>25056302
Anyone?

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>>25050223
If you're a coward, you may.

But seriously, "subtext" at least in current year is only ever used to make passive aggressive jabs at someone or something the author doesn't like. I find that to be lame but you do you, more power to you if that's your jam, personally I find gossiping of any kind to be a huge waste of creative energy which would be better spent elsewhere to create something more interesting than petty impotent bickering.
I like stories of characters facing and possibly overcoming a challenge or struggle, they're uplifting, need those now more than ever on this gay ass rock

How's your diary/journal going, anon?

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This is the opening to the short story I've started. Might be a novella. Thoughts are appreciated.

>>25056302
I agree with the cringe post. Good description of the cold around that part though.
>and various Azarian glyphs tattooed on his forehead and across both cheeks
Such as? Maybe rephrase this line to show, "The twin snakes common to all Azarian followers," or whatever they're all about.
>but his blind allegiance to authority drove him mad to no end
Ooh, you have an opportunity here. The guy just remarked about stopping 'this act of madness.' Be cute, be clever, play into that line. Something along the lines of, 'He's the one whose a touch mad in all this.' Something wittier than that of course but you get the idea.
>in lands alien you couldn't even conjure in your wildest dreams
AAAA tell me here. Tell us something fantastical, like something Elric of Melnibone would encounter. Or don't, this is my lightest suggestion, it's fine as is.
Overall this is written well enough and while I don't know what's going on I'd sit down to watch what happens next if this was on TV.

>>25058780
Not at all. Flaws round out their character, not make them unlikable. Ishmael has lots of flaws, but he's not "unlikable". Frodo has flaws, but he's likeable, Batman is even likable. I would even argue Herbert Humphrey has a particularly likable character. A unlikable character is one that readers cannot relate to or self-insert as, at least not want to self-insert as. It's hard to get right and even harder to make the reader interested about them enough to watch them succeed in their goal.

>>25058944
>whose

>>25058948
>make them unlikable
Stopped there. You wrote all that shit and didn't even both to read my post.

>>25050408
kudos for the critique

>>25058925
Most of it's just my dreams. Never kept it in one consistent volume and never will. And it's always in my nearly illegible handwriting. I pity any historian who makes it their mission to decipher the story of my life.

>>25058925
I started a new journal just to measure my productivity. For the month of January:
>Added 6k words to a novel I'm ready to publish
>Sent 30+ queries on behalf of said novel
>7k words for a short story I'm writing
>A 2.5k short story for a writing contest
>3 scripts for actual gay shit people seem to like

Overall I wish I was more productive.

>>25058954
You obviously can't comprehend what I'm saying. I am saying FLAWS does not equate to unlikability.

YOU are saying it does. I am telling you, YOU ARE WRONG. Let me repeat, FLAWS DO NOT EQUATE TO UNLIKABILITY. If you don't know how to express your argument so that it's CLEAR to the rest of us, write more.

>>25055404
Find your niche nigga, and cater to it, but really you should write because you feel the need to put something out there for all to see, not to be the best there ever was, this ain't some shonen anime son

>>25058998
>nigga
Shut the fuck up retard

>>25058993
I write enough.
Good qualities contribute to likability. Flaws contribute to unlikability. It's a basic equation, but I'll make it prolix to suit your pea brain. Most protagonists are closer to the good side, but characters like Socrates and Superman are difficult to keep interesting, so many elect to add flaws, which hold intrest, but come with obvious trade-off of making the character less likeable.
You could go for a balance. You could go for a perfectly good character. You could go for a generally unlikable character. There's no right or wrong way to do this shit. Just make it work. Who knows who's going to like what?

>>25056302
cool. maybe pacing issues; (and) you've got all these descriptions but the scene is still vague.
i think the first line and the monologue needs reworking.

>>25059011
>Nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga, I'm 100% nigga

nta but i don't want to see 'nigga', 'bro', whatever, used in this thread, ironically or otherwise. this isn't out of principle (though it should be); but, i actually can't help but disregard your post if i see this shit. i'll spare you the psychoanalysis.

>>25059051
Bro... you tripping nigga

>>25059051
Is chomsky permissible?

>>25059042
we do not say that word here. and we do not post slop. if you cannot adhere to our standards, maybe this isn't the right place for you.

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>>25059073
Oh shit my bad nigga.

>>25059031
>Good qualities contribute to likability. Flaws contribute to unlikability.
That's not true. You can like a character for having tons of flaws. Batman is likable but he's filled with flaws. Look Tim Walz, you're equating things incorrectly. Flaws do NOT make a character unlikable and valor does not make a character likable. Interesting does not have anything to do with likeability, Tim.

>>25059072
encouraged, even

>>25059051
You don’t capitalize. You must be some stupid nigger. What you want is irrelevant.

>>25059101
Who the fuck is Tim Walz?
In any case, only depraved souls admire a character for its flaws.

>>25059114
it reads like you're insecure about what you want to say so you need to pad it with irony. so by all means, keep doing it

Write to Trends
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkJR4ZB3rBY

>>25059116
you're not "admiring" anyone retard. You just proved my point. Flaws do not make a character interesting or likeable/unlikable. They're just flaws. Hence why unlikable protagonists are very hard to write.

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>>25059126
>admire
>To regard with pleasure, wonder, and approval.
>Synonyms & Similar Words include: like

>>25059139
Clearly you haven't any idea what I'm defining nor do you know how to define your terms because you're a retarded Jeet. I'm going to say this one more time because you're a clearly dumb as a rock. Likeability has nothing to do with flaws and it has nothing to do with being "interesting". Holy fuck you're a fucking retard.

Interesting =/= likeability.

>>25059146
You can find serial killers interesting, but they're not likeable

Got it dumbass?

>>25059146
>>25059149
It's fascinating how hard you're projecting when you accuse me of not understanding the argument. All you've done so far is try to put words into my mouth so you can refute a much simpler argument. I assume the most complex one you can wrap your head around.

>>25059161
Not an argument.

>>25059167
That's right. I'm not arguing with you, because I'm not retarded.

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>>25059039
>>25058944
thanks for the feedback. I feel your issue regarding the scene being vague is that it's literally taken right in the middle of the chapter, whereas the scene is described near the beginning. Here it is, for clarity's sake.

>>25059157
This is your core argument retard. You can't even refute my rebuttal.
>>25059031
>Good qualities contribute to likability. Flaws contribute to unlikability.
This is simply not true. And I proved it already because you don't have to be perfect to be likable and vise versa.
Superman isn't interesting because some author gave him a flaw.