Fidelio.

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now playing

start of Scriabin: Piano Sonata No. 2 in G-Sharp Minor, Op. 19, "Sonata-Fantasy"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMWuGF-aAZw&list=OLAK5uy_lmGKdh-Jd_h-V8Rbuy3SSMoISjyjbp1ww&index=1

Scriabin: Piano Sonata No. 5, Op. 53
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INDMiMWJBD0&list=OLAK5uy_lmGKdh-Jd_h-V8Rbuy3SSMoISjyjbp1ww&index=4

Scriabin: Piano Sonata No. 6 in G Major, Op. 62
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ5jAJT_sNs&list=OLAK5uy_lmGKdh-Jd_h-V8Rbuy3SSMoISjyjbp1ww&index=5

Scriabin: Piano Sonata No. 7, Op. 64, "White Mass"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpJW87KOBcI&list=OLAK5uy_lmGKdh-Jd_h-V8Rbuy3SSMoISjyjbp1ww&index=6

Scriabin: Piano Sonata No. 9 in F Major, Op. 68, "Black Mass"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_TU5ShZwBI&list=OLAK5uy_lmGKdh-Jd_h-V8Rbuy3SSMoISjyjbp1ww&index=7

Scriabin: Fantasie in B Minor, Op. 28:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHGtgZnYE0w&list=OLAK5uy_lmGKdh-Jd_h-V8Rbuy3SSMoISjyjbp1ww&index=7

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lmGKdh-Jd_h-V8Rbuy3SSMoISjyjbp1ww

Been meaning to check out Glemser's Scriabin for a while, I've read great things.

Chopin was too unintelligent to compose a string quartet due to his poor counterpoint talent, but he should have dropped piano and taken on cello suites, or at least work on songs.

Does anyone here like Shostakovich's Symphony No. 13? I'm gonna finally give it another listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S95MKDTEgZE

>>129249722
Spohr is cool, but whenever I see him or listen to his music I remember there was one particular YouTube commenter who would go on different videos of Spohr's music and comment about how much he despised it and how Spohr was the worst composer of all time. Weird choice of composer to hate in my opinion

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Yeah, I'm totally correct, this is far better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJvi7wAupaQ&list=PLHhl9W0kUwfT3LFk2uNej-EO7OWegUvVt&index=2

Everything about Chopin would have been expressed in a superior manner with strings.

>>129249788
>>129249892
here's your (you)

>>129249957
The piano can't sing, imitating bel canto on a percussive instrument is nonsensical.

wait a second, Rienzi is actually a full opera and not just an singular overture orchestral piece? wtfff

another thread another retarded pointless discussion

>>129250077
it's like 5 hours long too
the only complete recording is by Edward Downes

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For today's opera performance, we listen to Puccini's Tosca conducted by Erich Leinsdorf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux6Ed-liHMI&list=OLAK5uy_lwyy1ZGqxo7brHffft62GdTmLds1VCeLE&index=8

Any recs (both work and recording) for Janacek's operas? After this one, I wanna finally listen to one of his.

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>>129250085
True, we should spend our time talking about our love for Timberly instead.

Recs for lesser-known baroque/classical era oratorios and large-scale choral works? Stuff like Telemann's and Schutz Passions, for example

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Schutz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwGw6ieYyF0&list=OLAK5uy_mKK5aVoVxCYX-PnBGBvfkx3tpvIhmvSTI&index=10

>>129249788
>his poor counterpoint talent,
the most metalfaggotesque dumb shit ever uttered in this place

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Big fan of Bernius' Mendelssohn

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This is my no 1 desert island disc. I could listen to strauss waltzes 24/7 and probably never tire of them

>>129250782
I know you don't listen to contrapuntal composers very often (besides pretending to listen to AoF once in a blue moon), but do give the real romantic masters a shot: Reger, Taneyev, Medter, etc

We have all listened to Chopin's fugue, and we all wish we hadn't. Eventually your silly idolization and worship of Chopin needs to come back in contact with reality.

>>129251281
it seems you don't know anything, not what I listen to, not what consititues a counterpoint, not who good contrapuntists are. keep your delusions over at >>>/metal/

Any favored recordings of Kodály's Sonata for Solo Cello?

>>129251281
I do like the subject of Chopin's fugue I wish someone made a real one out of it

>>129251311
We all know what you listen to: Schumann and Chopin slopper. The closest to contrapuntal composer you get to is when you spam about Mahler, who only composed symphonies where one can just soak in the Wagnarian bombast surface level (gimmick hammers and all) instead of pure four part writing in string quartet, or timbrally minimal options like solo organ/piano (where all great contrapuntalists spend their time on see Bach/Reger).

Face reality, Chopin had his niche as a miniature melodicist (should have written for strings or voice), but his form, orchestration, and contrapuntal abilities were of low quality.

>>129251413
>I do like the subject of Chopin's fugue
Its because he wrote good melodies and phrases, he was just mediocre at anything else. He could have written some really good cello suites IMO.

>>129251099
It's pretty good.

I'm starting to get the impression that all this isn't bait and these really are his unfiltered dogshit opinions.

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>>129251334
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkXeDhFYK6Y&list=OLAK5uy_mH8Q8BJDgFj3NHarOzZrkLrlyz65JsYGQ&index=1

>>129251178
It's fun music for sure.

>>129251420
thank you musically illiterate charlatan, maybe try >>>/metal/ instead?

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I'm trying to get into classical music but there is just so much noodling around that it just never really clicks for me. Like I get it, you can wank off a theme for 27 minutes, I just want to hear a discernable melody once in a while.

>>129251479
i dont know who you are talking about. The guy who says Chopin is great at everything and calls everyone who disagrees a metalfaggot, or the guy who says Chopin is only good at melodies and calls everyone who disagrees a metalfaggot?

>>129251522
>the guy who says Chopin is only good at melodies and calls everyone who disagrees a metalfaggot?
I say that first part, but leave the spamming copypaste to our black metal loving Chopinslopper.

>>129251521
Classical is the opposite of modern music in the sense that modern music gives you what you want and loops that until the end. Classical knows that's not how life works, that that's escapism, and the only true constant in life is change, and it reflects this philosophy in its music

>>129251543
>the only true constant in life is change
This, but the complete opposite.

>>129251334
>Solo Cello
there's some spanish joke in there i'm sure

>>129251543
>the only true constant in life is change
Thats why we listen to the same 6 classical artists for 200+ years? lol

Also you can't claim that Classical isn't also escapism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcKlifirsQY
Yunchan Lim is better than Glenn Gould at Bach...?

>>129251574
>youtube slop
Not watching!

>>129251458
Was already converted by his Lobgesang, but he brings such clarity to Paulus, which is exactly what its earnest and searching mood demands.

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>>129251479
Unfortunately they are. Not only are they totally musically illiterate imbecile, but fheir confidence level is out of the universe.
>>129251522
No one says Chopin or any composer for that matter was good at everything. He never studied orchestrarion and strict contrapuntal forms, but he is genius at harmony and counterpoint. Learn schenkerian analysis and read Damschroder before attempting to form some misinformed thoughts.

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>>129251561
200 years is nothing

>>129249707
Sweetie you forgot the Lettberg again. It's time to get back to the disciplinary chamber.

>>129251521
Sometimes it's noodling, sometimes it's development and variations. That said, in that case I'd recommend sticking to chamber works (eg string quartets, piano quartets, violin/cello sonatas) and solo piano music. Maaaybe concertos.

For example, peep Chopin's Preludes -- they get right to it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqXYIteAfNs

>>129251586
>he never studied contrapuntal forms
>he is genius at counterpoint.
The mind of a Chopincel is curious. We have to wonder what sort of "genius" contrapuntalist can't even write a decent fugue.

>read Damschroder
I always love when you cherrypick modern thinkers that you would otherwise dismiss because "IQ's are lowered", but allow because they promote or agree with whatever agenda you have. "Only le ol school pianists are good, but this person who says Chopin is amazing in 20xx? Why of course its worth reading!". Lol.

>>129251574
Is this about Lim's new Goldberg Variations recording? Is it finally out? Lemme check... fug, it's not out on streaming till Feb 5th.

>>129251662
the mind of illiterate metalslopper is not curious at all and should return to >>>/metal/

Act III of Tannhauser blew my mind

>>129251670
"Everything new is bad and low IQ! (unless it agrees with me)" - the infinite intelligence that comes with a lifetime of black metal listening.

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For today's opera performance, we listen to Janacek's Jenufa conducted by Simon Rattle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNwybqBJXkE&list=OLAK5uy_k263_d5auDjvGDp3Qk-x_e1O5tarAb260&index=2

>Jenufa is pregnant, but she isn't married. In her isolated mountain village this means disgrace, or even death. The composer pondered his characters' predicament for many years. The opera he eventually completed is a blazing vision of human suffering and redemption, rooted in the rhythms of everyday life. Jenufa brings together a remarkable cast, including Agneta Eichenholz's heartbreaking portrayal of a vulnerable young woman and Katarina Karnéus' achingly powerful Kostelnicka. The third in a series of Janácek operas presented by Conductor Emeritus Sir Simon Rattle and the LSO, this next installment follows the critically acclaimed Katya Kabanova, released in 2024, and The Cunning Little Vixen, released in 2020.

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now playing

start of Schumann: Piano Concerto in A Minor, Op. 54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQg70WAsVC0&list=OLAK5uy_lcYDLJheBbtlPfwWxTd71TMjG91A1Ls7U&index=2

start of Schumann: Piano Quintet in E-Flat Major, Op. 44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbJIKx0P1R8&list=OLAK5uy_lcYDLJheBbtlPfwWxTd71TMjG91A1Ls7U&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lcYDLJheBbtlPfwWxTd71TMjG91A1Ls7U

I've come around to the greatness of the pianist Rudolf Serkin. And of course I already love Ormandy and the Budapest Quartet, so how can you miss out on adding this to your library and listening to it?

>>129251683
thank you embarrassing metalimbecile >>>/metal/

>>129251737
>how can you miss out on adding this to your library and listening to it?
I've heard it. I don't see why I should be listening to that over Cortot's 27 recording, which is perfection by itself.

>>129251770
I sighed irl

>>129251784
I chuckled. But it's sad that you can't hear the genius of his performance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZtpJHhhAqE
I'm listening to the Serkin recording, but damn I want to switch over to Cortot's, to my ears they both (the pianist and the conductor) are deliberately trying to ruin the piece and strip all the beauty off it. I could be listening to a good midi recording and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference!

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Going to look into Maltempo like I promised.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s3SJBkwZO4&list=PLOZUZb4eVaRr7vvLR2UlHjyRxekldcY0q

>>129251784
Total norseposter fatigue. Lol.

>>129251770
>I don't see why I should be listening to that over a recording with more hiss than a pit of snakes

>>129251910
>incoming horizontal legato beta cantonese maria callas old good new bad ramble

>>129251910
Snakes, and also portamentos, proper contrast of dynamics, and generally much more expression and soul, yes. Scary, right?

>>129251941
>trying his hardest not to mention horizontal vertical legato beta cantonese
Top kek, like watching an addict drinking non-alcoholic bear staring at the open liquor bottle.

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I asked my kitty who's her favorite pianist and she said,
>ARRAUW!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr23JaTLGJs

what the hell did this guy do to you to possess you to spam like this for days and days

anyway Spohr
https://youtu.be/xxAzo2LC1Ck

>>129249788
He just preferred the tone colours of the piano simple as.

>>129251940
Its more so the old good new bad that dominates his mind and he did so for black metal as well, but the low-fi nature hits his nostalgia bone really good too. Trust me, he did the exact same shtick for metal as well. He would exclusively listened to 90's black metal, and refuse to budge on it at all dropping the same style of copy pasta about "Pytten Grieghallen, Norway, melody, etc.".

https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/123053266/#q123055178

>>129251574
His articulation of the separate voices is poor.

>>129251574
He was born to play liszt

>>129252247
that's a peano anon not a violin

>>129252214
I think its more-so that piano is more suited to being a solo performer in a salon, string instruments are usually a chamber group effort.

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>>129251574
>see Asian face in music related video
>thumbs down
>don't recommend this channel

沒什麼私人恩怨

>>129252278
Sure there’s that but I think his musical imagination just never left the piano keys

>>129251941
none of that matters when the sound quality is so shit

>>129251977
mine said Ashkenazy

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>>129251977
https://youtu.be/WbHCuJLHYe8

>>129251999
One might say he has been mindbroken and mentally dominated.

I'm actually not entirely sure what set him of, well actually I know the section that made him go full spam mode (it was when I pretended to be him in a mocking fashion https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/129140621/#q129150932), but he was acting very agitated and aggressive towards me even before I began breaking his balls for laughs. Which is weird because on /metal/ we argued about stuff but it was never truly asshurt like he is now. I think sisterposter buckbroke him dearly.

>>129250077
quite repugnant

I want a read a good biography of a composer. Who had the most interesting life?

>>129252564
Wagner, Havergal Brian, and Hovhaness

What does Barenboim actually do?

How can I go about learning to play piano better? Any video guides or whatever you guys would recommend?

In questo lieto e fortunato giorno,
Ch’ha posto fine à gli amorosi affanni
Del nostro Semideo, cantiam Pastori,
In sì soavi accenti,
Che sian degni d’ORFEO nostri concenti.

>>129253357
you really need to spend more time browsing 4chan. that's the secret they won't tell you.

>>129253357
This guy has some good videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFrhar5XexU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtSivV5E4HU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVMW7zo4w90

>>129253468
buy an ad, faggot.

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>>129253357
Actually, disregard that post with the links to actually useful information. One of our fellow crabs in the /classical/ bucket has correctly pointed out that someone could conceivably make a few fractions of a cent if you watch his freely available youtube videos. That just won't do! Instead, I recommend you read C.P.E. Bach's treatise on the true art of playing the keyboard. For best results you should download the worst scan you can find, to keep in line with the hiss-aesthetic we all know and love.

>>129253363
whats wrong with latin, ho capito?

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>>129253568

>>129253568
thanks

Redpill me on Tilson Thomas.

>>129254328
never heard'o'him, officer

>>129254328
Pretty good conductor, some top-tier recordings, desperately wants to be a modern Bernstein is every single way

fell asleep listening to Wagner and my dream involved a dragon and various other fantasy elements for the first time ever, kinda weird

>>129255048
don't let it take hold of you, anon. if it does, there is no turning back.

>>129255035
>desperately wants to be a modern Bernstein in every single way
>Bernstein
>in every single way
dam bugchaser fr fr

>>129251574
Its a trick question, he is better than Gould because Gould was a bad pianist

>>129255151
>pull up a masochistic-pilled chair he always used
>moan like somebody dicked him in the liver
he just wanted to be spanked by a dommy mommy but the USA has failed him

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now playing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8VB5Ye3XLM

>>129255221
fuck off.

Bruckner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JHGm6O-CfY

>>129255063
>put on piano piece
>can only listen for 5 minutes before wanting to change to something else
>put on Wagner opera
>can listen to 2+ hours no problem
it's too late

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feels like a Bach's Goldberg Variations night
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYfaeEYen6Q&list=OLAK5uy_mxlL8KzdMe-WFzSq5iZcwPY5zEMYadY-M&index=1

Been working on a sonata for over a month. Writing is touch

is this taken from the goldberg variations?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3QYkqf2v4U

>>129249788
>Chopin was le bad at counterpoint
This is a great litmus test to see whether or not someone knows anything about music theory and history, or a complete Dunning-Kruger retard who overestimates their knowledge.

>>129251521
The "noodling around" is the best part. The thing is your expectations are fucked and you have no experience listening to this stuff, so keep going. Keep it mind the composers, styles and pieces are extremely different; there's more diversity here than what you're used to (popular music), you just don't get it yet.
>27 minutes
Miniatures exist. They're compact. Listen to them. Or composers that write melodically all the time.

>>129256444
strictly speaking, he was. virtually all of Chopin's music consists of melodies with a harmonic accompaniment but that is no reason to rate his music less highly since his melodies and harmonies are of such an exquisite standard.

>>129256564
see >>129256444

>>129256605
name calling is not an argument.

>>129256444
He's of the latter category.
>>129256564
Even his accompaniment is usually counterpoint heavy. But most performers have no idea. Imagine if Bach's fugues were played like melody/accompaniment, that's what they do to Chopin.
Exquisite harmony requires exquisite contrapuntal skills, unless you diverge from the classical/romantic voice leading, which Chopin did not. Without deep understanding of counterpoint principles there is no logic behind his radical (late) chromatic approach.

>>129256731
you speak as if counterpoint and part writing are the same thing, which they are certainly not. may I ask what qualifications you have relating to music?

>>129256707
Neither is parroting nonsense that's been debunked by people who actually study music theory and history. Too bad for (You)!

>>129256750
so would you mind telling us which university you work at?

>>129256746
>>129256777
post your diploma

>>129256792
I'm higher than a diploma. How about you post the voiceleading rules for a III - iv progression.

>>129256777
No. Anyway, Chopin was a devoted Bach disciple, read Charles Rosen's discussion on Chopin's use of counterpoint in The Romantic Generation.

>>129256819
Rosen was a Jewish attention whore and charlatan but I repeat myself.

>>129256806
So you have no diploma and demand of other's diplomas, gotcha.

>>129256834
whatever helps you sleep at night. btw, the answer is 1 to 1/5, 3 to 3, and 5 to 5.

>>129256862
That's not even a correct answer.

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>>129249722
The whole world of music mourns the death of LUDWIG SPOHR; to it I leave the appraisement of what rich powers, what noble productivity, have passed from life together with this master. Me it sadly warns that there now has left us the last of that line of noble, earnest musicians, whose youth was still illumined by the immediate rays of Mozart's sun; who nursed with touching loyalty, like Vestal virgins, the sacred flame committed to their charge; and guarded its chaste hearth against the winds and storms of life. This lofty office upheld these men in purity and nobleness, and must I at one breath denote what spake to me with such indelible effect in Spohr, I name it when I say: he was an earnest, upright master of his art; the handle of his life was Faith in his art; his deepest consolation sprang from out the force of that belief. And this earnest Faith made him free from every kind of personal pettiness: what he could not take the measure of, he left aside as foreign to him, without attack or persecution. This was the coldness and abruptness so often cast in his teeth. What was intelligible to him (and a deep and delicate sense of beauty must surely be ascribed to the creator of "Jessonda"), that he loved and warmly prized without reserve so soon as in it he perceived one thing: earnestness, earnest dealing with Art. And here lay the bond which, even in advanced old age, united him to the new art-efforts; he might become a stranger to them, but never hostile. Honour, then, our Spohr: homage to his memory! Faithful following of his example!

Now, I admire Dave Hurwitz. I do…but there are some bridges I can’t follow him over…or rather, under. HA

>>129257393
slander.

Hurwitz lustily gobbles down electric sludge eels daily.

After the French Revolution and the time leading up to it the music and the art and humanity itself became corrupt.
Music after the 17th century is not worth listening to, for the most part. Music affects the soul; Plato said that music is integral to a healthy society; a Chinese emperor said that he could tell the health of his provinces by the character of the music which was popular in each of them; Lenin said that he knew no quicker way of corrupting a people than bad music. So why poison your soul with the violent and distasteful music of the 18th century, the brooding and evil romanticism of the 19th century, or the schizophrenic and malignant "music" of the 20th century? The popular music of today is nothing but pornography mixed with cloying sentimentalism; cheapo McDonald's music for cheapo McDonald's souls.
I don't think you can listen to Mozart and not become a flamboyant socialite obsessed with "beauty" (vanity).
I don't think you can listen to Beethoven and not become a disturbed, brooding revolutionary intent on self-glorification and an arbitrary "justice".
I don't think you can listen to Chopin and not become a pretty little girl fond of nostalgic memories.
I don't think you can listen to Wagner and not become a raping and pillaging pagan.
I don't think you can listen to Mahler and not become a neurotic Jew.
I don't think you can listen to Stockhausen and not become Satan.

>>129257440
What’s your point?

>>129257440
>Plato
>some Chink Emperor

Spengler said music didn't really exist until the renaissance and reformation.

>>129257465
And Spengler is always right about everything, so there you go!

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Returning to the Maltempo Scriabin cycle did reaffirm to me that hes too polite for Scriabin, far too modest, and too reserved. He's like Milne, but Milne has this ominous and dark aspect he can pull from that I think would be great for later Scriabin, while Maltempo seems to play the late sonatas very straight.

Anyways, moving onwards to a few more things from him - I'm not huge into Liszt so I'm just going to check out his Alkan instead, but before that he does have a single Medtner sonata, which I think he'll be too reserved for as well. The one thing I'll say about Maltempo is that he does have moments where he can pull a fair amount of emotion out of the sentimental melodies, which is probably why I thought his Chopin nocturnes were pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv1M8k56w8Q&list=OLAK5uy_m71cFMv8x9GkFE9URgay-f3av1lkyDXHg&index=7

>>129256564
>>129256707
Correct.

What use is virtue signalling if you don’t get laid? HA

>>129257471
he's more accurate than fucking Plato. at least quote Aristotle if you're going to quote an ancient gayreek philosopher.

>>129257481
>Aristotle over Plato
>empiricism over rationalism
NGMI lass.

You are too intelligent for me to talk to, king. Later.

>>129257476
>>129257484
thanks for your input metalimbecile

>>129257484
realizing Descartes was right about the Graeco-Roman philosophers is a part of growing up. perhaps you might even understand Kant one day, but I shouldn't get my hopes up.

>>129257497
Gotta laugh that the biggest music theory autist on the general agrees with me that Chopin's counterpoint is poor, how are you going to explain this one away Norseposter? Oh right, you're just going to continue angrily spamming, nevermind.

>>129257503
>Descartes
>"I" think
He failed at the very start. one day you'll realize Plato finished philosophy and its just been a series of useless eaters ever since.

>>129257504
theory autist that doesn't even understand fugues or direct fifths kek. thank you metalimbecile

>>129257504
>the biggest music theory autist on the general

thank you. I would like to thank my lack of friends and other interests irl for making this achievement possible.

>>129257514
Is that why you are too scared to address his arguments and resorted to ad hom instead? You're a poseur, both in regards to your faked knowledge that you scream others should read (yet you haven't, and run away from actual debates) and also how you like to pretend you didn't come here from /metal/ starting in late 2024. But let me guess, another projecting of your /metal/ browsing is coming up? More spam? Loving Every Laugh.

>>129257512
>>129257529
thanks for your mindbogglingly imbecilic inputs metalslopper

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>>129257520
Based, we appreciate weirdos, outcasts, hermits, and the generally strange around here.

>>129257571
thanks for your mindbogglingly imbecilic input metalslopper

>>129257574
thank you schizo

oh, God. here we go again...

>>129257583
>>129257578
excellent posts metalsloppper charlatan

>>129257583
He's replying to himself kek. He's not just low IQ but a genuine schizo

>>129257440
>I don't think you can listen to Chopin and not become a pretty little girl fond of nostalgic memories.
chopinsisters...

>>129257597
Yet how are you going to explain the fact you've been doing this since even during your time on /metal/, norsespammer?
https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/123385311/#q123387691

You've got a looooooooong line of posts in the archives to pull from, your best bet would be to stop the excuses and just go back to spamming like you usually do. Its the best you're capable of.

>>129257625
>>129257614
thanks for your mindbogglingly imbecilic inputs metalslopper

>>129257504
I'm not saying Chopin's understanding of counterpoint was poor but if the waltzes and etudes are examples of "counterpoint" then what isn't? would he say the same about the piano works of Satie (a learned contrapuntist in his own right)?

most likely not because he's just selectively picking bits of evidence and framing arguments to give his opinions the appearance of objectivity.

>>129257723
I wouldn't bother, norseposter has no sense of nuance, and really is just offended by the idea Chopin isn't in the same league as composers like Beethoven, Bach, Haydn, etc. Only reason hes arguing about Chopin's counterpoint is because to him counterpoint = intellectual, and he cannot accept the idea that Chopin is less intellectual than others.

Here he is back when he was still new to the general
https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/124786759/#q124795857
Enough said.

>>129257630
thanks for self-flagging your post imbecile
>>129257758
thank you imbecilic charlatan

>>129257758
Chopin is very much intellectual and subtle but he was a specialist and being in the same league as Bach or Beethoven requires a high degree of universality and universal genius.

>>129257798
>very much intellectual and subtle
I think you mean to say sentimental and unsubtle, but to each his own. I don't mind Chopin, hes not really my flavour, but I can understand why others enjoy him. I don't think you can really put a miniaturist with no capability for orchestra or form as equal to the true greats, but for the black metal listening Chopincel anything is possible.

>>129257834
>>129257758
thank you imbecilic charlatan
>>129257784
thank you falseflagging samefag metalslopper

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>MFW I realize its only been 60 minutes and I still have another 7 hours left of my spam-a-thon

now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQu7lGGhoeg

>>129257476
Good on trying it.

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Another Wagner detractor was the French composer Charles-Valentin Alkan, who wrote to Hiller after attending Wagner's Paris concert on 25 January 1860, at which Wagner conducted the overtures to Der fliegende Holländer and Tannhäuser, the preludes to Lohengrin and Tristan und Isolde, and six other extracts from Tannhäuser and Lohengrin: "I had imagined that I was going to meet music of an innovative kind but was astonished to find a pale imitation of Berlioz ... I do not like all the music of Berlioz while appreciating his marvellous understanding of certain instrumental effects ... but here he was imitated and caricatured ... Wagner is not a musician, he is a disease."

Even those who, like Debussy, opposed Wagner ("this old poisoner") could not deny his influence. Indeed, Debussy was one of many composers, including Tchaikovsky, who felt the need to break with Wagner precisely because his influence was so unmistakable and overwhelming. "Golliwogg's Cakewalk" from Debussy's Children's Corner piano suite contains a deliberately tongue-in-cheek quotation from the opening bars of Tristan. Others who proved resistant to Wagner's operas included Gioachino Rossini, who said "Wagner has wonderful moments, and dreadful quarters of an hour." In the 20th century Wagner's music was parodied by Paul Hindemith and Hanns Eisler, among others.

>>129258292
Alkan sucks massive girthy cocks in comparison to the first 10 minutes of Tristan und Isolde

>>129258323
>in comparison to the first 10 minutes of Tristan und Isolde
I think you mean in comparison with the entirety of Tristan und Isolde.

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>>129258323
>>129258336
>The 1861 correspondence with Hiller yields more evidence of Alkan’s preference for baroque music preferring the [Matthew] Passion of Bach to anything that Wagner had produced. Alkan wryly notes that ‘we have sent B[erlioz] to Germany and Germany has imposed on us conversely W[agner]’.

>>129258336
Let alone the entirety, yes. But the first 10 minutes are more than enough lol

>>129257834
>uhh this anon is right!1!
>except when I don't agree, then it's "to each his own"1!1!

>>129249788
Chopin was great a counterpoint, plus haydn wrote tons of string quartets so I don't get your post

>>129258528
Different people can have multiple opinions, and we may agree with some, and disagree with others, correct - this is doubly so for nebulous terms such as if the music is "intellectual" or "subtle". Afterall, his idea of what subtle means could be different than mine, but I don't really care enough about Chopin to directly start an argument about it: "to each his own" is my nod towards that.

I only laughed at Norsespammer for the fact the biggest music theory nerd (krautanon/loner I think hes known as) here agreed with my stance that Chopin's counterpoint was of lesser quality and that Norseposter was too frightened to engage with him, but I do not have to enjoy the same music as the music theory nerd, nor agree with everything else he says in every regard. Just as the music theory nerd does not have to agree with all of my other ideas or takes, clearly we differ in some regards even on Chopin.

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For today's opera performance, we listen to Puccini's Madama Butterfly conducted by Erich Leinsdorf.

iconic opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mSyWo4kPCw&list=OLAK5uy_lCxtPctIOXIvEcg8SaGkvZjoFS5wz1ZsY&index=2

random vocal part
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaJ9zhCDP7M&list=OLAK5uy_lCxtPctIOXIvEcg8SaGkvZjoFS5wz1ZsY&index=1

>>129258597
>Chopin's counterpoint was of lesser quality
No one here said that. Chopin did not bother with the baroque forms or renaissance polyphony, what he did compose however certainly requires highest degree of contrapuntal skills, which you have never even studied.

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now playing

start of Schumann: Piano Quartet in E-Flat Major, Op. 47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnjz3WU2q-o&list=OLAK5uy_n9PKqbNKDs2mPIZBvj7GDjAVTVckGdKsc&index=2

start of Schumann: Piano Quintet in E-Flat Major, Op. 44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cMnLUpTnGc&list=OLAK5uy_n9PKqbNKDs2mPIZBvj7GDjAVTVckGdKsc&index=7

start of Schumann: Piano Trio No. 1 in D Minor, Op. 63
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWeARTL13NE&list=OLAK5uy_n9PKqbNKDs2mPIZBvj7GDjAVTVckGdKsc&index=10

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n9PKqbNKDs2mPIZBvj7GDjAVTVckGdKsc

An essential recording of chamber masterpieces. Everyone should have this set in their library.

>>129258685
>No one here said that
How can no one have said that if I said that? Chopin certainly did not have any high degree of contgrapuntal skill, was a complete failure in fugue, and if you are so certain of your "studies", why were you too scared to confront the krautanon and then resorted to adhom/spam like you always do? Its because you're a fraud.

Its interesting that I have never once in my entire time reading of contrapuntal composers heard of a single one that ignored baroque and renaissance polyphony. But let me guess, "actually Chopin loved Bach"? So why was his fugue an embarrassment? The cognitive dissonance involved where both Chopin respected "da old counterpoint masters", yet also "did not bother with the baroque forms or renaissance polyphony". The level of Chopincel delusion required to hold this opinions at once is astounding.

Yet I'm sure your reply will as ever be one of spam, because when you are confronted with a hard rational argument you cannot compete. Insults and spam are your only weapons, the strategy of the fraudulent poseur.

Of course, you're also delusional enough to believe Chopin's third sonata are "the greatest solo piano sonata ever written".
https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/124786759/#q124795739
I bet if someone posted a giLELs chopin performance to you now, you would declare it trash and unlistenable.

>129258806
Schizopost

I like Chopin a lot :)

>>129258806
Oh my god you just made me remember the chopin fugue LMAO

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Listen to Egon Wellesz

symphonies (first 5 of 9)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA6z_1b-Hdo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXuyIfIdsUE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Sff3gXk3I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIvcTsyH4LU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TagIdu-suo

piano work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APhSHrVe5o

orchestral
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1xlsCnSmL8

string quartet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQsEvKVQ3CA

As one community review says,
>What does Wellesz sound like? Some of the time he sounds like what Bruckner might of sounded like in the 20th century. Maybe not quite as inflated with a bit of atonalism from Berg maybe.

and another,
>If you are interested in an incremental progression from Mahler to modern music, Wellesz would probably come one step after Mahler, two steps before Berg. He writes as though he often understood the craftsman's issues better than his more famous peers, though he was admittedly of a somewhat lower rank of genius than they were. He was more of a textbook contrapuntist than any other Schoenberg student (like Anton Webern he was a musicologist who also took lessons with the Master);

Where to start with the operas of Weber and Meyerbeer?

o, also Cherubini

>>129257440
excellent post
it's quite surprising that even with all the "liberty" there are next to none influential composers who did not have a profit motive (only Erik Satie comes to mind)

>>129257440
I'd be more into these posts if they listed what music one ought to listen

>>129258921
>Weber
Der Freischütz
>Meyerbeer
Le prophète

>>129258959
ty

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>>129258938
>there are next to none influential composers who did not have a profit motive
Enter... Medtner.

>Upon graduating in 1900, he was awarded the highest honor granted to students. The path was set for him to begin a career as a concert pianist. Safanov even arranged a touring schedule but Medtner withdrew when he learned that, instead of serious music, he would have to play crowd-pleasers. He decided to devote his life to composition instead

>He mentions an interesting and revealing story about the time Medtner was invited to perform Beethoven’s Fourth Piano Concerto in Moscow and St. Petersburg with the conductor, Willem Mengelberg. Apparently, they only had one rehearsal planned, and both musicians had major disagreements of tempi. According to Medtner’s account, he thought that Mengelberg took the first movement too fast, insisting that the orchestra should follow him since he was the soloist. But Mengelberg said to him with a condescending smile, “You just play, young man, and it will work out somehow.” After hearing this, Medtner loudly slammed the piano lid, stormed out of the hall, and refused to perform on the concert. The concerto was eliminated from the program.
>At least to me, most musicians would relish the opportunity to perform a concerto with orchestra, let alone, one of the all-time masterpieces, Beethoven’s Fourth. Now the conductor was unreasonable, of course, but it seems to me that Medtner struggled with the art of diplomacy. This belief is further strengthened by his strong reluctance in performing music by other composers and his distaste for the business aspect of music. He loathed the concept of marketing, self-promotion, and appealing to the masses. In his mind, he thought that the artist was supposed to be loyal only to the craft. When he saw his close friend and Russian compatriot, Sergei Rachmaninov, reach the international fame and success that he craved, he remarked: “Rachmaninov prostituted himself for the dollar.”

>>129258886
These symphonies sound better than I remember. Also the primary vibe I get is a German Sibelius, at least so far from the first symphony.

if you don't like Chopin's Nocturnes, you might not even be human
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMuWawkJeMQ

>>129258871
My condolences, we all wish we had forgotten forever.

>>129257571
no we don't

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now playing

start of Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 5 in E Minor, Op. 64
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfJFsWKGIRA&list=OLAK5uy_kX-NwK2eL3NP4VYX74vqN-Db-OjisuL9M&index=2

start of Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6 in B Minor, Op. 74 "Pathétique"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UD2xjaLNGA&list=OLAK5uy_kX-NwK2eL3NP4VYX74vqN-Db-OjisuL9M&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kX-NwK2eL3NP4VYX74vqN-Db-OjisuL9M

>>129259173
is that an AI album cover

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>>129259179
It appears so. Quite pathetique. Don't know why they couldn't at minimum use a picture of the conductor for the album cover.

>>129259193
Because everyone knows women can't conduct.

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let's get HIP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRQrhlGCp2A&list=OLAK5uy_mxNXo5dX9fPpaBEWyeguhCTQtZJhVQn6U&index=4

>Indeed, I think Suzuki’s performance of this great work is one of the finest I’ve heard in a long time. ---- John Quinn, MusicWeb

>>129259133
I'm sorry, but I don't remember you being a part of the official /classical/ council. We here on the council all agree that outcasts and weirdos are appreciated and beloved here.

Recommendations for lesser known lieder composers?

Schreker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS6rm7alKqk&list=OLAK5uy_nPX73laCek959xBNqEBHDKH3unyh3qiGs&index=7

Zemlinsky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dci6QXHA7ho&list=OLAK5uy_knfeNk8ysoMh1pFE5nvpvsLC99QoNx5I0&index=8

>>129259256
Unless they spam and/or are idiots.

>>129259226
>>129259173
If I were a musician, pouring my heart and soul into a performance then recorded for all eternity, with the goal of brining the music to life, improving my professional portfolio, and of course making some money, I'd be so disappointed if this is the quality of artwork the label decided to use and publish. Especially since both of these recordings are very high quality, yet from the album cover you'd think they were bargain bin refuse from third-rate labels and musicians.

Not to mention I feel like it ought to be easier than ever to pay some artist a few hundred or a thousand to produce something in quality using an image editor + photography, given all the tools at our disposal in 2026. I just don't get it. Maybe they feel with everyone streaming, album covers don't matter anymore, which I can understand, but they're wrong.

>>129259173
The ai artwork on an album cover tells me all I need to know about the quality within.

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Comparison time: who released a better Brahms' A German Requiem (Ein Deutsches Requiem) in 2025 -- Masaaki Suzuki (from >>129259226) or Raphael Pichon?

Suzuki
II. Denn alles Fleisch, es ist wie Gras
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of-ckrxYS7A&list=OLAK5uy_mxNXo5dX9fPpaBEWyeguhCTQtZJhVQn6U&index=3

V. Ihr habt nun Traurigkeit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP5tfhAbrZc&list=OLAK5uy_mxNXo5dX9fPpaBEWyeguhCTQtZJhVQn6U&index=5

Pichon
II. Chorus. Denn alles Fleisch, es ist wie Gras
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYWqmLkh2m4&list=OLAK5uy_lkyTjk9pB_qxgsbDGZaO2fY5rjLYJNwFg&index=2

V. Soprano and Chorus. Ihr habt nun Traurigkeit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diS2YokbcFc&list=OLAK5uy_lkyTjk9pB_qxgsbDGZaO2fY5rjLYJNwFg&index=5

>>129259315
Case in point, this album cover for the Pichon release. Couldn't have cost much money or effort to make, yet it looks great, absolutely worthy of a classical recording in 2026, and one that'll stand the test of time if the recording endures, which ought to always be the goal.

>>129259347
It's quite good, I promise! But fair enough :(

see LPO, your cheapness and lack of effort -- hell, given the use of AI, it's even negative effort -- on the album cover cost you another listen and potential fan

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Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs3KTAWuf6I&list=OLAK5uy_lYp4XEzZEDwjWSG2ocvGRHyypzO0ekUrM&index=14

>>129259265
Wolf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsSIsJBlbDs&list=PL6CB7501EC743F243

>>129259173
man, I'm sure AI can make better artwork than that by now. WTF

>>129259362
>>129259226
For an optimistic reading of the work (most performances tend to be brooding and melancholy [it's a Requiem after all!]), the singing on the Suzuki recording is perfect. That said, I'd give the edge of Pinchon's. Both are certainly instant classics which will endure.

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For today's opera performance, we listen to Saint-Saens' Samson & Dalila conducted by Sir Colin Davis.

opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22GYf2k9OiY&list=OLAK5uy_kfHsrBvdKQYT5JZKG2lGIqJQ-WGT1zGe8&index=2

random vocal movement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqKyScKfv64&list=OLAK5uy_kfHsrBvdKQYT5JZKG2lGIqJQ-WGT1zGe8&index=11

>>129259791
forgot this review excerpt,
>Samson et Dalila is having a renaissance, and not because it's great music. Though there are patches of seductive stuff, the opera is being pressed into service for the growing number of acclaimed mezzo-sopranos, since the role of Dalila is one of the few 19th-century star vehicles for that voice type. This recording boasts the vocally resplendent Russian mezzo Olga Borodina, but tenor Jose Cura is the dominant presence, heard here in his strongest operatic recording yet. While his voice has been known to go slack at lower volumes, he seems uniformly secure. His characterization also has all the necessary heroism, along with thoughtful, touching pianissimos after Samson loses his strength. Borodina isn't as electrifying here as in her live Metropolitan Opera telecast (she's often too careful in the recording studio) but is often close to ideal. Minor roles are vocally patchy. But conductor Colin Davis, the real star of the set, gives this opera the same shimmering aura of his great Berlioz interpretations, as if this were a poor man's Les Troyens. Shimmer comes courtesy of the fine London Symphony Orchestra and the slightly-too-reverberant recording venue, Walthamstow Assembly Hall. --David Patrick Stearns

>>129259762
you ever checked Harding?

>>129259853
Back when the work was still kinda fresh for me, yeah. I remember thinking it was quite good, though not enough to make it into my regular rotation. I generally enjoy Harding's conducting too (ex. Mahler, Strauss, Bartok, Brahms' and Berg's violin concertos with Capucon). I should revisit it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRU7Nwp2FoM&list=OLAK5uy_k-l0Yn5XzuATZ5stn6tEvYTVtKCg8wsBg&index=7

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>>129258985
interesting
>Rachmaninoff secured him a tour of the United States and Canada in 1924
just proves the point that Rachmaninoff was a better manager than a musician (fully devoted to the art)

>>129258886
thanks, I'm a sucker for Bruckner

>>129259939
Aren't we all! Hope you enjoy.

>>129259430
yes but this recording https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1osi_pQcUdM&t=3740s

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now playing

start of Beethoven: Violin Concerto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0vuRmQV16E&list=OLAK5uy_k7UayWddn4Lmbzvo1sjXBPWarOgzO2zxc&index=2

start of Brahms: Violin Concerto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6k3Ajsw5cw&list=OLAK5uy_k7UayWddn4Lmbzvo1sjXBPWarOgzO2zxc&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k7UayWddn4Lmbzvo1sjXBPWarOgzO2zxc

>>129259430
Never heard of his pianist or his WTC before, I quite like this performance, I'mma check out his full set, thanks.

if you see WTC and think of the World Trade Center before thinking of the Well Tempered Clavier you are never gonna make it

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speaking of oldschool WTC sets I'd never heard of before, just came across this one by Jorg Demus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnEKIIcELfY&list=OLAK5uy_mFPSSeuZ6M-vya6APqHgv4FP0jSKjpalc&index=15

apparently he has a big box Bach set with a lot of the other keyboard works too

I see "WTC" and think "Want Timberly Coochie" personally.

What are the /classical/ power rankings of WTC performances?

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>>129260319
never4get

>>129260461
GG>who cares> everyone else

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>>129260461
Richter's is the unanimous choice. Beyond that, depends how you like your Bach. But I'd recommend:
Poblocka
Hewitt
Koroliov
Gulda
Aldwell
Crochet
Nikolayeva

then for ultra fans
Papastefanou
Schiff
Pilsun
Barenboim
Aimard
Gould
Zhu Xiao-Mei
Tureck
Ashkenazy
Crossland

It's that magnificent of a work which such wide possibilities of interpretation, that it warrants keeping multiple sets on common rotation, and even more for occasional listens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Ux1mpXutw&list=OLAK5uy_mV2fKy2RwJhFxR0AoPf50U7lmDs6T78ug&index=19

>>129260461
1. Richter
2. Inconsequentialius
3. Irrelevantez
4. Insignificantson
5. Unimportantshvili

>>129260546
>>129260461
To demonstrate what I mean about the wide spectrum of interpretive possibilities the WTC and Bach's masterpieces in general enable, check out these two polar opposite sets,

Gulda's, which is acetic and joyous with transparent poise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cui9-Mtej5Y&list=OLAK5uy_lTU7Y20sUpDXE89qyYXe1wXCT1xufESCI&index=65

Barenboim's, which is sentimental, affected, and romantic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQPtg6vm-LY&list=OLAK5uy_ntWwXTj7Yu8J13e6_3qW2ngUraUYzDch8&index=65

Aldwell's, which is kinda in the middle -- tasteful emotion, melodic, and warm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSoWMupF-bg&list=OLAK5uy_mGN-s_gTCkIXCDQfB5gyfisNkkeCeP-qM&index=17

>>129260461
>>129260546
Well tempered clavier isn't supposed to be listened to, they are exercises.

>>129260667
And yet...

>>129260667
there's no such thing as "exercise" unless you are playing scales or smth
but yes, solo piano (including "lounge music") and chamber music mostly exist for people to have fun or at least to interact with those around them through it

>>129260658
Man I can’t stand Barenboim. Did he fail upwards with the help of a rich uncle or something? What does >>129252650

>>129260817
Well, if you want your Bach/WTC to sound like Chopin, then his set is right on the money. I had a brief moment when I liked that set but it's certainly too heavy-handed and plodding for me now.

As for his work in general, he's a pretty good conductor and pianist, capable of truly great recordings as either.

>>129260781
>but yes, solo piano (including "lounge music") and chamber music mostly exist for people to have fun or at least to interact with those around them through it
String quartet is literally the single most serious genre there is. You are an idiot.

>>129260853
what's wrong with serious fun

>>129260846
Does he even have a style other than sentimental slop for the masses?

>>129260867
As a conductor, yes. While he does like that classic Germanic/Teutonic sound for most things (Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Elgar, Schumann, Brahms, etc.), he is capable of lightening up at times (eg. Bruckner). As a pianist... hmm... again, just depends on how you like things played and how you feel about his sound, but yeah, his Mozart, Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Bach, Chopin, and Schubert are all overtly played in his signature heavy-handed, uber-romantic style. I prefer to say sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

What are things you hate about classical music (besides the fans etc.)?

>minor pieces ending in triumphant parallel major
I wish this never existed. I wish someone recorded WTC without the picardy thirds. Fuck the score, play what's right.

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>>129249722
what's /classical/ consensus on Carl Vine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F89fz09pbHs

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>>129261104
>t.

>>129260461
Richter is too slow too often. My favorite is Nikolayeva

>>129261198
There are 12 major pieces. Why should all 24 end in major key? Why even write for minor key

>>129261254
Bach is a chad and rejects the minor key in concept. He introduces it only to defeat it.

>>129261278
So why write for minor then? He's retarded, because some of his minor pieces end in minor. In fact, he realized he was wrong, and half of the minor pieces in WTC 2 end in minor. It's what the succeeding composers failed to learn though. Bruckner should've realized ending in major is cringe too.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nnmVKINLB0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHD2Nit2sVg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a0wkAXbCj0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4OHtnggZ9A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TTuTUJbg7o

kek

>>129261414
>"damn that's one fine cover"
>clicks on it
>ADVERTISING SONGS
advertisingsisters, are we this obvious

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Mozart's serenades are what his symphonies should've been: short, sweet, straight to the point. Instead we got 41 numbers of monotonous majorkey meandering mess (except a couple), which leave you numb or put you to sleep. A bit more orchestral touch and color and the serenades would already be better than the symphonies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jrIou3kebw&list=OLAK5uy_mTkj0xkvHSV7dOPq4f5_FG1jqUeXeSd3I&index=1

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Parry
https://youtu.be/UA3Uz5Let6U

The Major and Minor key ruined music, everyone is too afraid to be adventurous and use a new key or mode

>>129261414
the plurodent one is actually pretty good.

I went out but the desire to return home and listen to Lohengrin proved too powerful for me to resist. Fuckin' Wagner...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM0Gmn0aep4&list=OLAK5uy_lB8q27tuvK610-g1Tc7YV6X3u6yhyzcis&index=18

>>129261170
>Australian composer

garbage

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>>129262512
When I recall the day that I listened to Lohengrin, it sends chills down my spine. Just the prelude itself aroused my cock up to 90* perpendicular, I tore my clothes off and ran naked to the streets shouting "JUST FUCKING RAPE ME ALREADY GOD". This is what listening to Wagner for the first time did to me. Wagner was not just making ordinary music for ordinary people, he was sound-raping his listeners and fucking their brains out until they attained nirvana or musical pleasure.

https://youtu.be/XdolW_A3tD0

Kinda strange how much better Prokofiev's ballets are than his symphonies. Like, hello, use some of that material in your symphonies, or split one of those ballets into three symphonies of their own??? idk i just really don't care for Prokofiev's symphonies anymore but still love the rest of his output. shame

>>129262570
...so you feel me?

>>129262589
Another composer who prostituted himself for the dollar by writing program music instead of pursuing absolute art music. Shame!

>>129262605
Hmm, when you put it that way, I suppose my point is when it comes to orchestral music, Prokofiev sounds better when he's trying to appeal to the masses. In his ballets, he's looking solidly backwards toward melodic romanticism; in his symphonies, forward to dissonant modernism. Or maybe I'm the pleb for not 'getting' his symphonies more.

now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSXFCObuPaY

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fresh(ish) release of Mendelssohn's and Enescu's Octets, get it while it's hot

start of Mendelssohn: String Octet in E-Flat Major, Op. 20, MWV R20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr-Z0-ylyB4&list=OLAK5uy_kpRGFc7FH0vbA8pS9I0Uly3vH_oaDDPpo&index=2

start of Enescu: String Octet in C Major, Op. 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiyAX91KsoA&list=OLAK5uy_kpRGFc7FH0vbA8pS9I0Uly3vH_oaDDPpo&index=5

review,
https://theclassicreview.com/album-reviews/review-mendelssohn-enescu-octets-quatuor-ebene-belcea-quartet/

>This coupling of two celebrated Octets by Mendelssohn and Enescu has appeared before, but the interest here lies in the collaboration between two established ensembles: the Belcea Quartet and the Quatuor Ébène. The division of roles is neatly conceived: the Belcea players take the role of “Quartet 1” in Mendelssohn’s Octet, while Quatuor Ébène lead in Enescu’s.

[...]

>Captured in spacious, well-balanced sound, this release makes a strong case for both Octets. Without overstating the point, these performances are persuasive enough to be considered among the most compelling modern accounts of these two works.

Sounds worth checking out to me.

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Mendelssohn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3iFb47ZcWw&list=OLAK5uy_kuFn7qQ-l44-WPvsqyTjgvLGaLvwwPoII&index=7

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>>129262772
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci9ODbbVn3c&list=OLAK5uy_kK4lyZTq3xznD95PpUhQz6AdLoRQbjZxk&index=9

postin on /classical/

>>129262853
tru, my apologies

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Maltempo's Alkan is better than his Scriabin, I think the interesting thing about Maltempo is that I believe his pedal use is pretty light, bit Gould-ish, and it gives him a lot of articulation at the cost of some smoothness and emotion. Although I will say that being light on the pedal is something one ought to do with Alkan, as he is not a Chopin rubato legato character, but rather a playful jokey staccato one. Maltempo does use it for the melodic sentimental melodies in any work he performs (hes actually very good at that), but once the dense sections come hes almost off the pedal. I went to find a live performance of him after thinking about this and wanting to confirm it, wherein I found all 12 minor etudes played live (what a legend), except there is someone's head positioned perfectly to block the view of his foot. Bit unfortunate. So maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like that to me.

Anyways, Maltempo has great articulation no matter what I've listened to him play, but even for Alkan I prefer others, Gibbons in particular, and maybe Hamelin too, although I hate the tempo Hamelin takes the march and Menuet at.

Here's Maltempo's live performance, starting at the Symphony, just for proof of that dedication
https://youtu.be/_VW2ms-jpCY?t=1250
That has a lot of sound quality issue, so I would naturally still suggest the album over it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFN7or7Zptk&list=PLvcyvwXUt5hGqfQvCrz2FdC_NDQcTmzzk&index=5

>>129263000
I'm sold on listening to the 12 Etudes finally.

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me at the center

>>129263037
Klemperer and Furtwangler lookin' like they've seen into the furthest depths of man.

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>>129263036
Its probably one of the greatest "Opus" works for piano ever (although kind of cheating because it has an entire symphony AND concerto stuffed in it). As mentioned before, I do prefer Gibbons, but Maltempo and Hamelin are both good too.

Besides the symphony and concerto there are 5 other works, of which four are exceptional and I personally only feel like the one is lacking (No.1 funnily enough).

The closing piece Le Festin d'Esope should be as famous as his monster pieces imo. Its so thoroughly Alkan as well, no one else would compose something like it with the lighthearted and grim planted so close to each other. I love how much his personality shines through in his works, hes a totally odd character. The form is obviously variations, very obviously, but wow what he does in 25 variations, and what an ending.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z9BG-hlYzA&list=PLLsr9s_7lqEGr8AZCc9WBqf3VNmTZsh2P&index=13

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Giuliani

https://youtu.be/FT8xGKTSbkc?list=RDFT8xGKTSbkc&t=1368

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Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Veq-2ssCUmI&list=OLAK5uy_lDx1LALi9s1xdEnowa0feMPAvc1hTV4P0&index=9

I've been listening to Bach's Cello Suites by Anastasia Kobekina and what's up with Fifth Suite Gigue? Did they really pick up her breathing? So strange considering it's way less present in earlier parts. Or is it something else? I'd assume they clean these things out in post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJEwtTSh8WY&list=OLAK5uy_l44cbAgveIkTF20O1eMOYNJls8cFgJVSc&index=30

>>129262853
Backhaus is god

>>129263730
Intentional stylistic choice, ye

best Mahler 5?

>>129265308
Best? Walter for every single one he recorded.
Acceptable? Bernstein, Chailly, for 5th Schwarz/LSO. Honeck is alright also.

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Mass in B Minor is a extremely comfy work to me, I don't know what it is but it gives me the feeling of being inside a warm church while its snowing outside

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEGAYlGtBiQ

Also while I think Sviatoslav is a better keyboardist than Karl, I think Karl is a better performer overall just due to every recording he has of Bach's vocal work being my definitive recording

Imagine if Mengelberg had recorded the entire Mahler cycle....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HQpJdORX6w

Life would have objective meaning.

Someone recommend classical that sounds anything close to either of these two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnu6lx9OmjE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnu6lx9OmjE

>>129265655
The second one was supposed to be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5P8TzBEPR0

>>129265308
Barshai or Levine

>>129265383
What do you think of Bach's Christmas Oratorio?

>>129265655
Romantic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDoWJLLXqvI&list=OLAK5uy_nK-6foHYidLyKDXioc63E_pjISl_x5u7U&index=1
Classical
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kkbnqmDp7A&list=OLAK5uy_lOD5g2tNG3M-_kbDvhbw8CDVOwfFHOFPo&index=5
Baroque
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV6PiEEBYdc&list=OLAK5uy_lyZI45OHNRrA5f3N51AMInsAhawnoyHOI&index=3

>>129265905
I like the Baroque one. Do you have anything slower?

>>129266074
You're in luck, because there's 48 different pieces in Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, which span the entire gamut of human emotion and musical color.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3LjyXrwUR8&list=OLAK5uy_kS4zh1-semo1JK4Gz6er6yM5zamTuBcVA&index=4

that links to the playlist too. go nuts

>>129266097
Really nice. I'm still looking for more contemplative stuff. Like how Satie has long pauses to let you reflect on each note, they have a very unique feel.

>>129266074
Of course. You really should listen to the entire Well-Tempered Clavier - and also explore different recordings, some pianists play much slower, others play faster. I like Richter myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqqPc0OnONk&list=OLAK5uy_lyZI45OHNRrA5f3N51AMInsAhawnoyHOI&index=12

An even slower one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXnRl6VHzjI&list=OLAK5uy_lyZI45OHNRrA5f3N51AMInsAhawnoyHOI&index=8
And one more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4EY0Zt2KtU&list=OLAK5uy_lyZI45OHNRrA5f3N51AMInsAhawnoyHOI&index=22
And Chopin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMrKxEpTeuE&list=OLAK5uy_mejcVqY3WwdbrdxncJJYqeRlJvl4SKPqo&index=20

>>129266114
Thanks, the second one is what I'm looking for.

>>129266113
Well if you know about Satie, surely you already know about Debussy.

Have you tried
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRjKo0QEIuI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCvIhO0Qrvg

>>129266125
Yes, I like Debussy too. I'll check those out.

Bach is like Shakespeare in that he contains the entirety of the human condition within him.

Parsifal is now my go-to sleep music.

>>129266290
Do you get woken up by Kundry's scream?

Fagnarian lullabies.

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fugg-ner.

:DD

>>129266379
>>129266446
it's actually

bogner :DD

>>129266303
When does that happen?

>>129266566
It's one of those Wagner moments that call for a non-musical vocal expression that every singer handles differently and sometimes like a looney tunes scream:

https://youtu.be/2gl5uE47vU8?list=RD2gl5uE47vU8&t=284

>>129265383
Amen, brother.
Glory to Christ!

>>129266882
Shut up nigga

>>129266114
Whom?
I only know Karl Richter.

>>129266911
Begone, demon

>>129266923
Kek fuckkng schizo

We all know about the trope of the minor key that is defeated by the major in the end, but what are some great works that are in major key and then defeated in the end by the minor?

>>129266940
If I am schizo, then so was Bach.

>>129266941
The minor third is more dissonant than the major third so that wouldn't make any sense.

>>129266989
Yes well, the point is that it would be an ending in tragedy. Like a story where the evil guys win.

>>129266989
shut your hole, retard.

>>129266911
>>129266940
>>129267046
Thank you for the cliquespam.

>>129267046
Make me, tough guy :)

>>129266971
Confirmed for schizo ;^)

>>129266941
>>129266989
Chopin's 2nd ballade, Mendelssohn's 4th symphony
>It is among the first large multi-movement works to begin in a major key and end in the tonic minor, another example being Brahms's first piano trio.

My 10 most listened composers in the last 5 years, arranged in alphabetical order
>Bach (JS)
>Debussy
>Fauré
>Handel
>Mozart
>Scarlatti
>Scriabin
>Telemann
>Vivaldi
>Wagner
Thoughts?