>>129267310
>that arm hair
Lol.
Lmao.

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>>129267310
Based and Chopin approved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBMlG01yi14

Liking Beethoven is a sign of low musical intelligence.

There's a reason why every FIRETRUCK composer for the past two hundred years has absolutely adored Beethoven and been deeply inspired by his work. And that reason is because the music that Beethoven created always seems full of forward momentum and rhythmic bluster, and always seems to be trying to be an advocate for some sort of emotional conflict or triumph. It seems very dramatic and self-absorbed.

If you Iove the romantic style compared to other styles thats one thing. But you have to loathe the lack of sublety of Beethoven's work.

Liking Beethoven is like liking young adult novels or reality shows. It comes off as ignorant.

>>129267337
unapologetically true. baroque and romantic periods were less mechanic and much better.

>>129267329
She's Greek, what did you expect.

>>129267384
She's our hairy hellenic goddess

Are Handel's keyboard works underated?

>>129267608
It is impossible to underrate Händel.

blonde hairs on tan skin is sex

Maria Callas has a chuddy face and body hair. Gross!

There is a world of difference between a Mahler eighth note and a normal eighth note.

you didn't put classical in the subject you fucking idiot

>tfw favorite composer is Mozart but this general will forever associate him with some fucking anime girl
>tfw no face

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>>129267847
>favorite composer is Mozart

>>129267901
fptmiu

>>129267714
>tan skin
Ugly, soon-to-become-leathery shit.

>>129267762
Speak on that.

>>129267143
Fine enough. You listen to that much Handel, huh

>>129268166
stfunf

>>129268185
are you even attracted to people? like be for real

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For today's opera performance, we listen to Wagner's Der fliegende Holländer/The Flying Dutchman conducted by Marek Janowski.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3_oMl0Vjgc&list=OLAK5uy_mVTAIEJPLWfpYlO2NX5PFH_AiJ_KjXiTQ&index=1

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now playing

start of Schubert: Symphony No. 9 in C Major, D. 944 "The Great"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqQeSjAYbo4&list=OLAK5uy_lKrLdVxSez5r4OdiH45jPhXdOrNWtVjFs&index=2

start of Krenek: Static and Ecstatic, Op. 214
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4clohUturY&list=OLAK5uy_lKrLdVxSez5r4OdiH45jPhXdOrNWtVjFs&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lKrLdVxSez5r4OdiH45jPhXdOrNWtVjFs

>The second album from Franz Welser-Mo¨st on The Cleveland Orchestra's in-house label pairs Schubert's "Great" C Major Symphony with music by the 20th century Austrian-American composer Ernst Kr?enek. These recordings serve as a unique document of the Orchestra's music-making, having been made only days before the coronavirus pandemic forced the temporary shuttering of Severance Hall. Schubert's majestic "Great" C Major Symphony dates from 1825 and was premiered by Felix Mendelssohn in 1839. Kr?enek's suite Static and Ecstatic is music of contrast and extremes, juxtaposing moments of strictly serial music with freely composed material.

Alkan
Beethoven
Bach
Bach (CPE)
Brahms
Buxtehude
Clementi
Durufle
Haydn
Medtner

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Clementi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDr9jZ3YvxM&list=OLAK5uy_moKtuz8zZ6jMSh7YawI1-QXMD_zDDXyIE

>>129268731
Ah yes, Beethoven, Bach, Haydn, Brahms and a bunch of teenage cringe garbage.

>>129269144
>a bunch of teenage cringe garbage.
In what universe is Buxtehude "teenage cringe garbage"? You haven't even listened to the composers, have no real opinions of your own, and are not of a proper human quality.

>>129268731
The Durufle is interesting. I love his Requiem and his motets but what else does he have? And I still maintain Alkan and Medtner aren't really top composer quality but we all have our personal favorites. Solid overall.

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>>129268364
take this random bitch for example
she's a bit old but she could get it because her skin is pale and soft
tanning is a boomerish aesthetic

>>129269374
Pretty much everything Durufle actually published is worth listening to (and really it takes very little time to listen to it all), but I consider the Alain Fugue to be of the highest quality.

https://youtu.be/FJpG1Qyv6e8?t=396

The Suite, Cum jubilo, Scherzo, and miniature Meditation are other all-stars besides what you mentioned. Actually Meditation is probably my favorite short piece of all time.

I suppose the main criticism is that he doesn't have many works, but I appreciate what is there very much so. His contemplative style is very rare outside of the renaissance from what I've listened to in my period with classical, I suppose there are some like Messiaen, but he is hard to listen to.

>I still maintain Alkan and Medtner aren't really top composer quality
There have been no other better pianist composers since Beethoven; maybe you can dislike Alkan's rather... unique personality, but his compositions are superior - Liszt wrote transcriptions of symphonys, Alkan actually wrote a symphony, enough said. And who really has an equal catalog with Medtner? Chopin with his inability to write long form, and poor counterpoint? Liszt with his programmatic slop and harmony gimmicks? Pure laughs. Godowsky would make my list as well if he composed more, his Sonata and Passacaglia are insanity.

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>>129267847
Someone say Mozart?

https://youtu.be/-JIjvKIka34

I will ask now that the topic is brought up, why does Mozart not at all have the same type of cult that Bach has?

>>129269927
Bach is the old man church teacher and mozart is the degenerate rockstar

>>129269927
>why does Mozart not at all have the same type of cult that Bach has?
Because Haydn was the real king of Classical era and Mozart is the showoff kid popularized by movies and his operas.

>>129269941
I mean haydn doesnt have a cult either. And while I know this is a shitpost, cmon.

>>129269954
Haydn's cult is limited to only the highest of classical listeners. The father of the symphony, the father of the quartet, and the father of the sonata (its true). His reach is so ubiquitous and omnipresent that there can be no denying his place as the summit of his era, if not of all eras. Yet it is very domination of the musical landscape that prevents a traditionally loud "cult" from appearing, as cults usually serve as outsider perceptive, while Haydn's influence is unending wherever you look.

>>129269927
Mozart was perhaps the most ambitious composer in the history of music. He produced at least one, and generally several imposing masterpieces in almost every genre of music— concerto, song, opera (serious and comic, German and Italian), string trio, string quartet, string quintet, quintet for piano and winds, trio and quartet for piano and strings, quintet for wind instrument and strings, divertimento for wind octet, double concerto for violin and viola, symphony,piano sonata, violin sonata. Although he left no completed major work of religious music, his two fragments—the C Minor Mass and the requiem— are monumental even in their unfinished state. In comparison, Haydn’s major successes were largely restricted to the two genres of symphony and string quartet; only when he was much older than Mozart ever became did he create his most impressive piano sonatas, piano trios, and the important vocal works with the late masses and the two oratorios. And only after Mozart’s Prague symphony had surpassed in size and weight any of Haydn’s orchestral works, setting an example, did he expand his symphonic style.

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>>129267310
too much pathos

>>129270124
The only reason Mozart wrote a decent quartet or symphony is because Haydn showed him how its done, and Mozart had to dedicate his quartet attempts to Haydn out of acknowledgment of that obvious reality. Mozart was among the most ambitious slop merchants, in which he published for everything no matter the quality, such as his piano sonatas.

During the time of classical's dominance in our societies, Haydn was considered the greater. As is obvious to anyone with any sense beyond hollywood movies.

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For today's opera performance, we listen to Mozart's Don Giovanni conducted by Carlo Maria Giulini.

opening overture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsoLlmxppgo&list=OLAK5uy_m2j087RZhk00cYd4lH4hCwunjLx0Mvx04&index=2

random vocal movement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYH9hwAo_s&list=OLAK5uy_m2j087RZhk00cYd4lH4hCwunjLx0Mvx04&index=37

>This is, in the opinion of many critics, the best recording of the greatest of all operas. The cast is a who's who of great singers from the early stereo era (1959) when the recording was made. At the top of the cast, the young Joan Sutherland, whose fresh, agile voice, opulent in tone even at the top of its range, had recently hit the international operatic scene like an earthquake. In the title role, Eberhard Waechter portrays a man obsessed with sex as a game that he must win at any cost--and keeps on losing. Giuiseppe Taddei brings depth and ingenuity to the comic role of the valet Leporello; Luigi Alva treats two of the greatest tenor arias ever written in limpid bel canto style; Carlo Maria Giulini leads a great orchestra with a superb, synergistic balance of musical and dramatic values. --Joe McLellan

>>129269737 this answers evertything, “”””thanks””””

>>129270309
and by "it", haha, well. let's justr say.
My peanits

>>129269927
He is too popular with normies, and even his deep cut works are still relatively easy to understand and appreciate, unlike with Bach.

>>129270913
>normies
Only normalfags say "normies".

>>129270931
Oh, I'm sorry for not fitting in. Let me rectify that. Ahem: NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER
Ahh, much better!

>>129270977
Correct.

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>tfw Mahler 10th 1st movment bursts into sudden dissonant climax of unsurpassed force

>>129267847
>liking a degenerate poop inhaler
Haydn and Boccherini are better

>>129268731
You had me with half of those composers. Eclecticism for the sake of eclecticism is still bad taste, and any list with Clementi, CPE Bach or Brahms is bound to be bad

>>129271580
3/10 ragebait

>>129271588
Sorry, I forgot to add Mednter to the list garbage as well, my bad

best Bruckner 5?

>>129271826
Karajan of course

>>129271561
>Haydn
Third-rate composer. I'm sorry, but it's just true. That doesn't mean he's bad, but he's nowhere near the first tier, consisting of Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, inferior to the likes of Chopin, Schubert, Handel, Mahler, Verdi, Wagner, and Brahms, and he should ranked alongside the likes of Debussy, Vivaldi, Ravel, Sibelius, Dvorak.

So much of what he wrote is, at best, a less cultivated, less polished version of Mozarts output. In his vast, vast output, its very difficult to find things that compare well with that of Mozart, and it is in many ways like comparing Bachs works to that of his best contemporaries, like Telemann, Scarlatti, and Handel, but that actually makes Mozart look better, for while there are numerous beauties, perhaps of an inferior kind, found in the works of Bach's contemporaries compared with that of Bach, (especially valuable and unique are the sonatas of Scarlatti, which are excellent, yet totally different in character from the keyboard works of Bach), very little valuable is found in Haydn not found in Mozart. Exceptions I would say are the sonatas, (which some pianists have, I think rather tastelessly, esteemed higher than those of Mozart), and a handful of movements scattered among his London symphonies (though you might as well listen to them all). I would also recommend the entirety of Symphony No. 97 in C major, which is in a style very unique and really captures a playfulness and provincial quality that is simply not found in Mozart, yet is quite musically solid.

I cant recommend for or against his string quartets, having little appreciation for them, but I have little to no taste for chamber music. As for his applauded two oratorios, I cant recommend them either, and while I have little taste for choral works as well, I know what I like, and compared to the best masses of Mozart, Bachs Mass in B minor, and Beethovens masses (which I think are fair comparisons), I do think Haydns best efforts compare well.

>>129271867
bait used to be believable.

>>129271867
>but I have little to no taste for chamber music
You should lead with that next time so that we know not to bother with the rest of your post.

>>129271148
I’ve yet to hear any music in Mahler.

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>>129267310
Best Verklarte Nacht? Going to a performance tomorrow and want to prepare.

>>129271925
>I want to listen to the perfect studio recording of this piece so that I can be disappointed by the live version

>>129271940
I generally find live performances superior desu. I mean ok, shitty performances can be shitty, but good live performance of a piece is better than any recording.

>>129271925
https://youtu.be/zhd9i6CMos8

>>129271826
Sinopoli

>>129271925
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzYyJsN70e0

>>129271884
Correct.

>>129271925
don't forget to choke on some water and go into a coughing fit.

>>129267381
Incoherent post.

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now playing

Rued Langgaard: Symphony No. 12, "Helsingeborg"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8im3ejw36E&list=OLAK5uy_m39o38dS0ytNVlb9vVXrxyIhm5fJDhzYw&index=2

start of Rued Langgaard: Symphony No. 13, "Undertro" (Belief in Wonders)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHMSgq4UyXU&list=OLAK5uy_m39o38dS0ytNVlb9vVXrxyIhm5fJDhzYw&index=3

start of Rued Langgaard: Symphony No. 14, "Morgenen" (The Morning)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1YFYvbCDFE&list=OLAK5uy_m39o38dS0ytNVlb9vVXrxyIhm5fJDhzYw&index=9

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m39o38dS0ytNVlb9vVXrxyIhm5fJDhzYw

Indulging in indulgent yet quality post-romanticism.

>>129271826
Dohnányi or Skrowaczewski

>>129269144
the projection is palpable

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>>129271867
Chopin, Schubert, Handel, Mahler, Verdi, Wagner, and Brahms
>any of those better or as innovative as Debussy, Ravel, and Haydn
>thinking Mahler could touch Debussy's creative prowess let alone Ravel's

I'll stop green texting and just laugh at you, and scoff at you until this entire expires

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now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chaXhba3hXw

>>129272026
Thank you, Karajan delivers.

>>129271969
Thank you. I liked it less, but also quite a nice recording, even if quality understandably suffered. Nice art though (even if it's more fit for his later escapades).

>>129271925
Schoenberg Quartet

Haydn is as good as Beethoven btw (meaning that he is A tier. S tier is Mozart and Bach exclusively)

>>129272813
Mahler is far superior to both those filthy french"men"

>>129267336
Why do the Japanese love Chopin so much?

>>129273099
it's superficial, emotionally manipulativale, and easy to understand, just like most Japanese entertainment

>>129273099
it's the sonic equivalent of oriental fairy food.

>>129273135
What did Chopin do to you?

>>129267329
that's the master stroke

>>129268364
99.99999% of people are utterly revolting and repugnant. they are walking filthy.

>>129273167
nothing, I was just answering a question

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Regina Spektor years ago did a show with the DC National Symphony Orchestra. They also put together a list of her favorite classical music that inspired her own music career. What do you guys think

String Quartet No.1, Op.50 (Prokofiev, Sergey)
Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 8 Op. 110
Hebrides Overture, Op. 26 "Fingal's Cave"
Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis
Piano Concerto No. 23 K. 488 by Mozart
Fantasy-Impromptu C-Sharp Minor. Op. 66 Chopin
Enigma Variations, Op. 36: Var.9 Adagio "Nimrod" by Elgar
3 Black Kings No. 3 Martin Luther King by Duke Ellington
Piano Concerto No. 2 Op. 102 Shostakovich I-III
Scythian Suite Op. 20 "Ala i Lolli" II by Prokofiev
Romero and Juliet Suite No. 2 Op.64b I Prokofiev
Khachaturian: Suite from Masquerade Op. 48a I. Waltz by Khachaturian
Khovanshchina: Dawn on the Moskav River by Mussorgsky
Piano Conerto M. 83 II by Ravel
Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade OP. 35 1-IV by Rimsky-Korsakov
Variants on a theme of Tchaikovsky Op. 35a by Arensky
Glazunov: The Seasons Op. 67, Pt. 1 No. 1, 3-8
Glazunov The Seasons Op. 67, Pt 3 (No. 9, 11)
Glazunov The Seasons Op. 67 Pt 4 (No. 14, 15)
Glazunov: Concert Waltz No. 1 Op 47
Glazunov: Concert Waltz No. 2 Op 51
Agony: Waltz by Khachaturian

Can you guys recommend me a good recording of the brandenberg concertos

>>129273062
In your cucked wet dreams Fritz, Germans suck after Wagner, Mahler and SVS are schnitzel cope

Is this /classical/?

>>129266114
>>129259430
>>129260546
>Performing Bach on the piano
A DISGUSTING act

>>129273676
you bait is stale.

>>129273738
It’s authentic commentary, not bait

Sorry, but not everyone supports your disgusting behavior.

>>129273643
Leave, but kill yourself first

>>129273838
I won’t be doing that, sorry

>>129273534
study music before posting here

Bach
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=po-GHqYHLA4

>>129273266
Is she Jewish?

>>129273266
As solid as one could hope for. And quite authentic and consistent.

>>129274042
Very. Russian Jewish. Her family fled the USSR

>>129273269
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4amnD3yZdIw&list=OLAK5uy_mJmdoPpkjEtknWVcyC5yoDUHgV8KlT9mw&index=6

>>129273643
Most of the time.*

*don't quote me on that

>>129274312
disgusting.

>>129274312
Weren’t Marx and Lenin Jewish?

>>129273889
Stop listening to German slop

>>129273099
High IQ

>>129274692
stop coming to these threads and go to ones about music you actually like

>>129274316
Thanks, this is pretty good

>>129267901
>what?! your favorite composer is the same as Schubert's, Tchaikovsky's, Wagner's, Haydn's, Albert Einstein's, and Rossini's, and one of the favorite composers of Beethoven and Chopin? Nonsense!

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Mozart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYxKzFnJcxI

How do I find what works from a composer to listen to when a lot of them have hundreds of compositions? Ive mostly been going off spotify and lastfm, surely there is a better way

>>129275420
1. Check out the FAQ in the OP (RECOMMENDED WORKS LIST - TALKCLASSICAL)
2. Watch Hurwitz 10 beginner piece videos (by genre or composer)
3. See what people are discussing, both here and other places(talkclassical, youtube, whatever), ask questions about which specific composer/period/genre you're interested in, you might get recs
4.Listen to albums, as they often contain multiple composers/styles by a single performer, from there you will discover new styles and composers
5. Try to look up specific pieces you already like, read something about them (for example, on wikipedia), it might lead you to other pieces

Most importantly, don't feel overwhelmed, we all did at first, but for no good reasons.

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>>129275420
Listen to what interests you, a lot of the great composers are great because of their versatility in various styles. Mozart being an especially good example.

Obviously you should listen to the essentials eventually. But I think enjoying the music is a pretty important prerequisite.

>>129275587
Mozart is not for everyone. The first reply is more useful. Let them pick what they like by themselves.

>>129273269
alesandrini
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxNkgDzc2gA

now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2c1XjcKLxs

>>129269927
bach was autistically obsessed with counterpoint and pseuds conflate this with genius talent

>>129275763
fuck off, retard.

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Bach to Bux

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkEzgZZWB48&list=PLmHS2s--U8TlL9sk_LzR4pNbUHCkeW-EM&index=17

>>129275142
>Schubert's, Tchaikovsky's, Wagner's, Haydn's, Albert Einstein's, and Rossini's
>Beethoven and Chopin
Besides Beethoven and Haydn this is a very condemning list towards Mozart tbqh.

>>129275876
based

>>129275689
Mozart's opera arias are for everyone.

>>129275988
Not really.

>>129276063
NTA but operaslop is literally made for the masses.

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Didn't even know pedal harpsicords existed.

https://youtu.be/1Pwb4IaMBUk?t=307

Pedal Erards are still the supreme keyboard instrument, but this was bretty cool.

Perhaps if you stopped trying to associate him with your transgender Japanese toons, more people would listen to the Moz.

>>129276230
We love Morrissey here actually

>>129276250
Who?

>>129267329
>arm hair
look at her thigh :O

>>129268364
Only to attractive ones. Preferably with skin that doesn't look like leathery shit.

Been listening to classical for over a month now. So far the best artists are: Bach, Handel, Schubert, Debussy, Beethoven, Stravinsky

>>129276390
I've been listening for years and still indifferent to Stravinsky. Nice job.
Have you tried Rachmaninoff?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2xQodIz01s&list=OLAK5uy_lgVzHhxfdv3NXjHGu_2cb1jEuh7RdahIQ&index=33

Speaking of tranime avatarfags, why doesn't that Ukrainian Mahlersperg who hates progrock post their avatar here?

>Stravinsky
RIFFS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qAoUzT-VyM&list=PL4f18WuwYZcrpVZeodH5h592mjGI3Gk0m&index=4

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>>129272026
I love Schoenberg. I also hate Schoenberg.

>>129276530
I hate him for not sticking to composing late romantic chromatic sludge. just imagine all the suites and tone poems that could have been... sad!

Why do the Ich ru zu dir chorale and prelude have different melodies? I thought he was using the same hymn melody.

>>129276630
what an idiotic question.

>>129276630
...they do have the same melody.

>>129276650
I'm new to classical music why are you so mean?

>>129276653
Why don't they sound the same?

>>129276661
Because the prelude heavily ornaments the melody. Look up the scores of the chorale and the prelude on imslp.org and compare the two.

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>>129276661
>I'm new to classical

fuck off and die.

>>129276566
Neurosis. He suffered from neurosis. You can feel it in his music.

>>129276677
Ah okay that explains it. Thank you.

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>>129273534
But mahler was austrian jewish

>>129276810
Like Hitler, based

>>129276824
But then y did hitler ban mahler from being played?

>>129273534
>Germans suck after Wagner
You mean Germans suck because* of Fagner.

>>129276846
Wagner raped your mind.

>>129277033
Fagner was gay and died of AIDS.

Ginastera

https://youtu.be/MfEofnPFVzc

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Alkan op.35, the 12 Major Etudes. Not as good as the minor ones, and there is to my knowledge only one decent recording by Mark Viner, who I generally don't find as good for Alkan interpretations, but beggers can't be choosers I suppose.

Crazy how we get a new trite and derivative Beethoven slop cycle played the exact same way as everyone else every few months, but can barely even get a recording for even slightly obscure composers. Complete nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tciWGtWWFyw

>>129277315
Wait, there are two different 12 Etude cycles by him?

>Crazy how we get a new trite and derivative Beethoven slop cycle played the exact same way as everyone else every few months,
sigh, I hope one day you come around and understand the magnificence of Beethoven's piano sonatas.

Fuck off Hector

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I listened to Ansermet's Debussy Pelleas und Melisande last time as I fell asleep, and y'know, there actually is a certain aesthetic, sonic appeal to older opera recordings. Given this, I've decided to give Knappertsbusch's Wagner a chance.

Ansermet's Debussy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRbzp_4WZM4&list=OLAK5uy_kO8gcrz8bjtEOWgqqACCYzfSKmezuQY58&index=2

>>129277337
Yeah, he has all 24 keys for Etudes split between major keys (Op 35) and minor keys (Op 39), and also all 24 keys for Preludes (Op.31). Although honestly his Op 39 doesn't really consist of "Etudes", unless the idea was to practice sounding orchestral I guess.

>I hope one day you come around and understand the magnificence of Beethoven's piano sonatas.
I listen to Beethoven's sonatas all the time, I just see no reason for endless new recordings that offer nothing of any interest. Gould at least understood that in the era of recordings there is no point in just releasing the same takes over and over and over again.

>>129277360
listen to Desormiere's Pelleas

Schumann is just a shit composer. I heard his cello concerto randomly on the radio today without knowing it was his. And I was like, who wrote this horrible concerto? I also heard that Carnaval piece once on the radio and was perplexed at the repetitiveness and why they were even playing it. Turns out this is hailed as one of his good pieces kek. I can get you suck at orchestration or a lot of forms. But if even your works for solo piano suck that much, you are a failed composer.

>>129277423
>>129277315
>>129277204
>>129276170
>>129275876
thanks for the imbecilic posts metalslopper charlatan. maybe go back >>>/metal/?

>>129277476
>>129277033
>>129273534
>>129272813
>>129276837
thanks for the imbecilic posts metalslopper charlatan. maybe go back >>>/metal/?

Thread reeks of disappointed parents and semen-encrusted anime bodypillows

>now I'm going to schizospam!
kek

>>129276417
>>129276390
>>129267329
>>129275859
back to /metal/ imbecelic metalslopper
>>129277484
excellent post metalslopper

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>>129277484
Good job schizo.

>>129277509
thank you imbecilic charlatan

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>MFW Chopin was insulted and I'm having another episode again

Always thought jazz was the genre of choice for Dunning-Kruger-afflicted spergs, but this general proves me wrong

the /metal/slopper tactic: falseflag and spam randon replies so no one knows who the real stupid of the thread is
lmao

More like Chopin my dick off

>>129277467
>1941
:O

I'll check it out, thanks

"Hans Knappertsbusch at Bayreuth
1951
Das Rheingold (Conductor)
Die Walküre (Conductor)
Siegfried (Conductor)
Götterdämmerung (Conductor)
Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg (Conductor)
Parsifal (Conductor)

1952
Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg (Conductor)
Parsifal (Conductor)

1954
Parsifal (Conductor)

1955
Der fliegende Holländer (Conductor)
Parsifal (Conductor)

1956
Das Rheingold (Conductor)
Die Walküre (Conductor)
Siegfried (Conductor)
Götterdämmerung (Conductor)
Parsifal (Conductor)

1957
Das Rheingold (Conductor)
Die Walküre (Conductor)
Siegfried (Conductor)
Götterdämmerung (Conductor)
Parsifal (Conductor)

1958
Das Rheingold (Conductor)
Die Walküre (Conductor)
Siegfried (Conductor)
Götterdämmerung (Conductor)
Parsifal (Conductor)

1959
Parsifal (Conductor)

1960
Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg (Conductor)
Parsifal (Conductor)

1961
Parsifal (Conductor)

1962
Parsifal (Conductor)

1963
Parsifal (Conductor)

1964
Parsifal (Conductor)"

damn he really liked Parsifal

>>129277488
Thats just the Wagnersisters and Chopintrannies, forgive them, they have no where else to go besides /lgbt/.

>>129277532
>>129277533
>>129277541
excellent posts imbecilic charlatan metalslopper

>>129277554
Most Wagnerstans do. But if you have even a slight doubt in Wagner you're probably going to hate it. To me it's a borefest, even the prelude.

>>129277574
How one man can be this filtered is perplexing.

>>129277587
He filters out bad music like Fagnarianslop, working as intended.

>>129277574
>To me it's a borefest, even the prelude.
Yeah, back when listening to just the preludes and overtures and orchestral excerpts, I was always surprised by how much Parsifal sticks out, and disappointed in its stolid, atmospheric tiresomeness.

And now listening to the opera, I'm not a fan of the monotonous male monologue of the first act. But I'm coming around. You should check out the second and third act on their own, maybe.

Eating McDonald's value meals while listening to Akan and Jute Gyte.There is no better feeling.

>>129277617
>Eating McDonald's value meals while listening to Akan and Jute Gyte
There's no need to repeat yourself.

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For today's opera performance, we listen to Berlioz's Les Troyens (The Trojans) conducted by Sir Colin Davis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZRKENqw_Oc&list=OLAK5uy_n_5PgVfUu6v51E2wmnV05aPD9PWw__jf0&index=2

>The work is a dramatization, by Berlioz himself, of the second and fourth books of Virgil’s Aeneid, with some changes, contributions from elsewhere in the poem, and, in one famous passage – the love duet – from Shakespeare’s Merchant of Venice. Berlioz himself said the work was ‘Virgil Shakespeareanized.’

>>129277647
damn, I should have linked the opening too, it's magnificently gorgeous and exuberant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpCZA3HNN-o&list=OLAK5uy_n_5PgVfUu6v51E2wmnV05aPD9PWw__jf0&index=1

You can't listen to that and not be hooked!

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>>129277617
We prefer in-season caracara oranges with our Alkan and Buxtehude here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4g6-ecKSVI&list=OLAK5uy_kxloaXEJQziL9jUgz9SgNLeqrQXhQ-EhQ

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Bach and Wagner, who apparently have radical differences, are the musicians who basically resemble each other the most. Not as musical architecture, but as a substratum of sensibility. Are there two creators in the history of music who have expressed more widely and completely the indefinable state of languor? The fact that in the first it is divine and in the second erotic, or that one condenses the languor of his soul into a sound construction of absolute rigor and the other dilates his soul.

>>129277423
It's true Beethoven's piano sonatas don't have the same interpretive potential as, say, Bach or Mahler, but there's still plenty of room to maneuver. For me, consistently listening to new and different recordings helps keep the music fresh, even if the interpretive ideas aren't necessarily original nor the performances particularly groundbreaking compared to the handful of greatest cycles. I see it as, if I'm gonna be listening to the music anyway, why not try a different recording a majority of the time?

>>129269875
>There have been no other better pianist composers since Beethoven
X_X

alkan a hack

>>129277647
I'm listening to all of the operas you post. Been thoroughly enjoying discovering them.

>>129277716
>why not try a different recording a majority of the time?
NTI(Not That Imbecile) but if the interpretation is below the standard it's simply unenjoyable for me. So if I know the performer isn't good why would I torture myself? I'd rather stick with performers who I know plays well

>>129277745
>I'm listening to all of the operas you post.
Genuinely makes me happy to hear <3

>Been thoroughly enjoying discovering them.
Me too, it's great there's this whole trove of classical music left unexplored, many of them masterpieces, plus to finally enjoy all of these composers and works I've heard endlessly praised by others like Wagner and Puccini and Mozart's and Strauss' operas.

This Berlioz one is off to an auspicious start, I can tell it's gonna be a work of genius (plus I've always loved the other non-opera Berlioz pieces I've heard).

>>129277730
Name what you believe is better. Skrjabin? Interesting and unique style, but meandering and lacking direction in his later outputs. Rachmaninoff? Just Medtner without the depth, slave to the consumer. Prokofiev? Circus melodies, inability to be genuine (turns every melody ironic), and general piano banging. Sorabji? Same issue as Skjabin but magnified 100x fold with his Vagner length compositions. Shubert? Poor man's Beethoven and just as deaf, only hes also wearing a skirt and makeup. Liszt? Formless slop, programmic memes, thematic transgenderism with no development, harmonic gimmicks. Chopin? Pretty melodies and nice harmony, with nothing else.

Who do you have as your best post-Beethoven pianists?

>>129277792
I'm not suggesting listening to bad recordings. There's a wide range between 10/10 and 1/10. If you genuinely feel like there's only one 10/10 recording for you for any given work, and the rest are 1/10 by comparison, then, well, sorry to hear that. To me, the variety and splendor of recordings is one of the biggest assets of classical music. Check out any professional music critic/reviewer and they'll have long, curated lists of great recordings of any given masterpiece, instead of saying "here's the one, nothing else is worth your time."

>>129277807
That's the great thing about opera, it was arguably the foremost medium for a lot of musical history so there's an almost endless supply.

>>129277730
Chopin and Debussy evidently.

>>129277809
>Skrjabin? Interesting and unique style, but meandering and lacking direction in his later outputs
"Meandering and lacking direction" is a strange claim for a composer obsessed with thematic development, narration and dramatic continuity. Shallow analysis.

Reposting KEYBOARD COMPOSERS TIER LIST (most informed and on objective basis)
>ELDER GOD TIER
Chopin
Debussy
>ELDER GOD TIER 2 (THE POWER GAP TIER)
Nobody.
>GOD TIER
Rachmaninoff
>GREAT TIER
Liszt
Fauré
Scriabin
Beethoven
>GOOD TIER
Mozart
Schubert
J.S. Bach
Brahms
>PASSABLE TIER
Reger
Haydn
Satie
>MEH TIER
Scarlatti
Byrd
Sorabji
Clementi
Poulenc
>BAD TIER
>SHIT TIER
Most others

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>129277892
>Scarlatti
>meh

>>129277678
No vegan ever made a meaningful contribution to classical. Meat and milk form the brain.

>>129277887
>>129277887
>thematic development,
Something every composer has even Liszt (but only sometimes)
>narration and dramatic continuity
Shallow analysis with no real meaning.

The pseudo-atonal murk of later Scriabin intentionally avoids any sort of direction and focuses instead on the atmosphere and feeling he wanted to present. It creates a very unique method and style, but he failed to incorporate a structure anyone would find perceivable outside of sheet paper. Feinberg was better at attempting to grasp the slippery muck and wrestling into a real purpose. Maybe if Skrjabin had lived longer he would have found a way to eventually create something more cohesive out of his late methods.

>>129277845
That plus I believe it's where many composers put the greatest concentration and highest peaks of their talent, eg Mozart, Strauss, Berlioz, Britten, Janacek. Perhaps even the likes of Debussy (with only one opera), Prokofiev, and Berg.

>>129277923
True, fuck Fagner and Mahler.

>>129277716
Not sure why you place interpretive potential of Mahler to be equal to Bach, or that either of them are that open to such things. If you really love interpretation then just listen to any other Baroque composers, most of the melodies are just skeletons for you to style on.

Ignoring that side tangent, I'm not saying to not listen to new interpretations if thats your thing, I'm just saying how about instead of 5 new Beethoven cycles, we get one new one and spread the other four to composers who don't even have their entire works recorded yet. Seems a lot more usefull to get unheard of compositions out there instead of Appassionata recording #91321738712.

>>129277908
500 sonatas that sound the same. Unidiomatic to the instrument since pianos didn't even exist then. What does Scarlatti offer that can't be found with more variety and color in Bachs?

>>129277943
>Something every composer has
I didn't say "has thematic development", I said "is obsessed with thematic development". Learn to read illiterate.
The fact is that Scriabin isn't meandering and lacking direction, it's just that you personally don't like the direction he takes.
>atonal
Lol. No point in arguing with you, you're completely musically illiterate. You have much to learn, buddy.

>>129277997
>500 sonatas that sound the same
And yet you haven't heard more than 2 or 3, if that. Curious how you can have such a strong opinion on something you're clearly clueless about.

>>129278009
He's the /metal/slopper that can't even read a sheet of music let alone write anything, he's the biggest charlatan I've ever known.

>>129277943
>he failed to incorporate a structure anyone would find perceivable outside of sheet paper
Funny, I thought it said 'sonata' on my CD. He also repeats stuff. Seems pretty structured to me.

>>129278017
your commentary was quite unnecessary /metal/slopper

>>129277943
>sheet paper
What's that?

>>129277984
>Not sure why you place interpretive potential of Mahler to be equal to Bach, or that either of them are that open to such things.
...my ears and brain, plus the words of musicians themselves. Why, are you suggesting this isn't the case? Surely you aren't that much of a madman.

>I'm just saying how about instead of 5 new Beethoven cycles, we get one new one and spread the other four to composers who don't even have their entire works recorded yet.
I feel you, but it's tricky because while ideally only those with something new to say would record the standard repertoire, I'm sure most of the musicians do genuinely believe that they do, even if they don't. Plus new great recordings of the standard repertoire are in fact still being released. For example, for Beethoven, there's Igor Levit, Rudolf Buchbinder, Louis Lortie, Paul Lewis, Angela Hewitt, Barenboim, Fazil Say, Jonathan Biss, Andras Schiff, Bavouzet, Scherbakov, Boris Giltburg, and Brautigam. All sound distinctive with a unique vision, approach, and sound. Now, if a handful of those cycles didn't exist, and instead they put their time and effort toward recording less-often heard repertoire, would anything be missed? Not much, though then again, the cycles I'd choose to be on the list of expendable might be the ideal cycle for someone else, y'know? A cycle to fit any taste.

And finally, maybe they just don't feel those lesser known compositions and composers are worth their time. As I always say, in classical music, the best stuff usually rises to the top. Maybe they all love Beethoven that much.

>>129278032
You ok there, buddy? Did you quote the wrong person?

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Scarlatti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH9e0TUvM9U&list=OLAK5uy_ltqXLKFYdoE2sK1DJX30Gb81UU5DVkmYM&index=3

Scarlatti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3bhe7PgWgo

>>129278055
Damn, this is really good. Might be time to finally give Scarlatti a proper listen.

>>129278009
>lol.
Bit ironic that you screech about ["has thematic development", I said "is obsessed with thematic development"] yet intentionally took out the "pseudo" of "pseudo-atonal" even with the hyphen there. Talk about a bad faith hypocritical actor.

>The fact is that Scriabin isn't meandering and lacking direction,
Well you are free to believe whatever you like Scriabincel, just like he was free to believe that he was going to end the world with his Burning Man festival.

>>129278026
Yes well, Chopin also put "prelude" to pieces that don't prelude to anything. Lots of silly things happened in the Romantic era. However I am not suggesting Scriabin did not write a sonata, but rather that there is no structure in the sense that there is any building up, tension, or journey to his late pieces. Instead you are floating around in his fantasies and atmosphere mood piece, and then it ends at some point. Its pseudo-atonal murk that fails to have a real drive towards anything beyond evoking a feeling or mood.

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>>129278046
Hes having an episode again. We are lucky he isn't in full schizophrenic spam mode.

>>129278117
Why are you talking about yourself though, seems like you're the real schizo here

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Wagner is god.

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>>129277953
>>129277555
>>129277574
>>129276846
>>129277204
Such blasphemy. Wagner, just what was your crime? Why do they slander you so? They are disrespecting you again. Please forgive them, for they don't know of who they slander... I understand, I understand your fight, please Wagner have mercy on their soul, forgive them of their trespasses. Wagner your purity will not be polluted as long as I breathe. I will place lilies on your grave, sell everything I own to Bayreuth and charities. For you I - a mere apostle, your voice my command, your order my struggle. Just, forgive the masses. Peace Wagner. Peace.

>>129276170
Kino instrument
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cobaQ4PFsZg

Are Mozart's operas the peak of his output?

>>129278223
They are a close second behind his piano concertos.

>>129278223
No.

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now playing

start of Malcolm Arnold: Symphony No. 7, Op. 113
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZjRinUgUBU&list=OLAK5uy_lpODqPaAfbkjz8SvX8LzScRGAcSFXoidk&index=2

start of Malcolm Arnold: Symphony No. 8, Op. 124
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpet0tsiw9o&list=OLAK5uy_lpODqPaAfbkjz8SvX8LzScRGAcSFXoidk&index=5

start of Malcolm Arnold: Oboe Concerto, Op. 39
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ_ZhcQrv4Y&list=OLAK5uy_lpODqPaAfbkjz8SvX8LzScRGAcSFXoidk&index=8

start of Malcolm Arnold: Symphony No. 9, Op. 128
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgeyzVQI7yU&list=OLAK5uy_lpODqPaAfbkjz8SvX8LzScRGAcSFXoidk&index=10

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lpODqPaAfbkjz8SvX8LzScRGAcSFXoidk

Some nice 20th century English classical.

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scarbotti :DD

Wagner was not human.

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>>129278287
bugner

>be me
>hmm I feel like listening to a composer's entire symphonic cycle in a row, that'll be fun
>find/assemble a playlist of composer's 4-to-11 symphonies
>partway through the first or right as it finishes:
>"alright, that was nice but I actually feel like listening to something else now"
>change music
>next day
>okay, let's finally listen to that entire cycle
>start from the first symphony again because I want the complete experience
>same thing happens again
>repeat forever
>month goes by and I've listened to the first symphony 20 times and the rest zero
fug

>>129278329
That's so autistically retarded holy shit. You don't have to listen chronologically my man.

wtf is the "complete experience" before the 1950s it was literally impossible to listen to a composer's entire symphonic output in a row and there aren't any composers who had this kind of "experience" in mind

>>129278039
>Why, are you suggesting this isn't the case
Because one is an obsessive romantic who wrote every detail in, and the other is an obsessive Baroque composer who wrote every note in (sometimes). I mean you want some interpretive potential, go check out the unmeasured preludes of Couperin. Hell just about any other Baroque composer would be a better option than Bach https://youtu.be/2HynpKOlESU?t=25

>Now, if a handful of those cycles didn't exist, and instead they put their time and effort toward recording less-often heard repertoire, would anything be missed
Which is basically my point, and thats not even counting the endless cycles you listened to and never remembered even their names. I would say Beethoven has so many cycles that it would be impossible to not find a cycle someone likes, so what are we really printing these out for? Hell, keep making more, but take half and use these pianists to record forgotten works that have literally 0 (zero) recordings.

>the best stuff usually rises to the top
If it did then we wouldn't have to suffer through Liszt's fame, Buxtehude wouldn't be an obscure composer, and the positions of Medtner and Rach would be reversed. Classical is subject to the same faults as any other genre's fans.

>>129278369
>If it did then we wouldn't have to suffer through Liszt's fame, Buxtehude wouldn't be an obscure composer, and the positions of Medtner and Rach would be reversed.
No, no and no.

>>129278386
>Le gimmick man with no form is le worthwhile composer
>Ehrm is that any baroque composer besides Bach? Not listening!!!!
>Big dumb simple melody = epic composer!!!!
NGMI.

>>129278394
Buncha strawman and musical illiteracy, as per usual with you.

Anyway, Horowitz's Scarlatti

https://youtu.be/5t_aVNWzR8Y

>>129278403
Thank you Chopintranny. When the peak of form to you = Schumann's 30 min fantasie slop, you can't really go around calling others musically illiterate though. The only thing you value is open faced melody, and you're submissive to authority - its why you'll defend 10th rate garbo like Liszt.

>>129278438
>Schumann's 30 min fantasie slop
Imagine being filtered by a name of the piece this hard.
>you can't really go around calling others musically illiterate though.
Yes I can. As long as the illiterate in question is hotheaded charlatan who does nothing but spam, shitpost and post literal nothings disguised as thoughtful essays, it is the right thing to do. You don't understand form in any relevant way. The only way you CAN understand form, is if you study haemony. Quit shitting around and return to >>>/metal/ with your pseudsloppery.

>>129278438
>>129278492
>study haemony.
Or rather at least* study harmony*. You're a charlatan. No one here wants to read your essays.

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>>129278492
>Imagine being filtered by a name of the piece this hard
Its literally (literally) not a real sonata, try laying off the Wikipedia, which even itself can only barely describe it as a """"loose"""" sonata, because thats the best they could could up with after attempting 200 years of analysis on it. Its a 30 minute piece of semi-improvisational romantislop, just as the title dictates.
>who does nothing but spam, shitpost and post literal nothing
>Quit shitting around and return to >>>/metal
Another day of projection from our faithful black metal listening Chopintranny.

https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/122809004/#122811073
https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/124786759/#q124795739
https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/124786759/#q124795857

>>129278578
>Its literally (literally) not a real sonata
The first movement is literally (literally) a sonata form with clear exposition, development and recap with the tonal scheme of a sonata (excepting recap which is in parallel minor at first). Cope moar.
>semi-improvisational
You don't know the meaning of words you're using, charlatan.

Keep your schizo ramblings and pseudessays over at >>>/metal/

>>129267310
fat maria > thin maria

>>129278627
>The first movement is literally (literally) a sonata form with clear exposition, development and recap
HAHAHAHAHAHA AND YOU CALL ME MUSICALLY ILLITERATE?
“Charles Rosen uses the first movement of the Fantasie, Op. 17 to portray ‘the death of the classical style’
Isn't this the same guy you used to "prove" that Chopin has excellent counterpoint?

>Keep your schizo ramblings
Speaking of schizo, here is your epic battle with sisterspammer, where you two would fill entire threads of spam - its easier to search by his keyword spam for you (indian child), but every deleted reply is directed to you who would spam back in return about "back to psych ward insomniac" or "thank you schizo" and so on.

https://desuarchive.org/mu/search/text/indian%20child/page/2/

Funny now that I think about it, didn't sisterspammer accuse you of being musically illiterate as well? is the only thing you do project your own issues?

>Many have criticized Schumann's compositional style as being incompatible with sonata form. For example, his Fantasia, Op. 17 appears to be a series of cleverly interactive themes which, by virtue of their poetic diversity and dramatic momentum, manage barely to function within the confines of a quasi-sonata form. Schumann's discomfort, some would say, is made evident by the absence of developmental sections in the outer two movements, by the invasion of literary and musical quotation, and even by the rhetorical presentations of his too lyrical themes.

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>“Schoenberg often time cited Schumann’s music, especially his works in the larger forms, primarily to exemplify negative features of post-Beethoven music. Popular texts told how Schumann could not ‘find his bearings on this road’ and decried his ‘flabbiness and lack of intellectual fibre.'”

>>129278796
>Isn't this the same guy you used to "prove" that Chopin has excellent counterpoint?
There's no need to prove something that should evident to anyone.
>Speaking of schizo,
Speak on that, except on >>>/metal/

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>>129278817
>lack of intellectual fibre.'”
More like the peak of intellectual fibre. Shame Schoenberg was just an educated moron, not an intellectual. Not like he could grasp the actual genius with his dry formalist bias.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjw6aTXXoZA

>>129278839
>>129278821
>The digression as a sonata form is problematic, as the framing sections lack the tonal and dramatic features that typify sonata form.(11) The tonal opposition that lies at the core of a sonata exposition—realized through a large-scale motion from a point of tonal stability to one of instability—is conspicuously absent from the section regarded as the exposition. And, as Daverio himself has acknowledged, no development section can be identified. At the same time, the purported recapitulation fails to bring thematic materials previously heard outside of the tonic into its realm. Only the first statement of the lyrical material—initially in ii—is restated in the parallel home key, while the actual home key is established only in the last few measures of the movement.
I can keep this going for days btw, my dear musically illiterate norseposter.

Got laughed at for wearing my Jute Gyte shirt and my fox tail to the Beethoven recital

>>129278870
Should have gone to the Schoenberg recital lass. 12 tone rows are beloved there.

>>129278880
Based Surrey Furry

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>>129278885
The ears and mittens on Timberly was no joking manner.

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What is the diapershit of classical?

>>129278862
>realized through a large-scale motion from a point of tonal stability to one of instability—is conspicuously absent from the section regarded as the exposition.
This is verifiably false. The secondary theme, which is in F major, is a subdominant of the tonic and therefore introduces an instability. Instability is not, in any concievable way, absent.
>no development section can be identified.
The development section is very much identifiable and begins on 129 marked "Im Legendenton", which ends the exposition. This is bunch of horseshit coming from musically illiterate (You) charlatan who is not familiar with the musical language and should return to >>>/metal/
>>129278908
>>129278950
thank you /metal/slopper, now return to your schizocave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aImFbPQ8cZI

>>129278346
yes you do

I'll be on vacation in Berlin in a few weeks and I'm debating with myself whether it's worth going to see the Junge Deutsche Philharmonie playing in the Berlin Philharmonic Hall.
Anybody who listened to them and wants to offer an opinion?
Program includes Richard Strauss, Szymanowski, Benjamin and Debussy.

>>129279462
>Richard Strauss, Szymanowski, Benjamin and Debussy.
Borefest. Avoid.

>>129273676
>Performing Bach on the piano
>A DISGUSTING ACT
A fellow lautenwerck connoisseur, I suppose?
https://youtu.be/-w5Fpw__QCI?si=ngNapFWEQIIvXAKE

Why is Schoenberg more remembered when Webern mogs him completely?

>>129279621
Because of the innovations that Schoenberg brought upon art music, chiefly dodecaphony.

>>129279640
>chiefly dodecaphony.
so nothing of worth.
funnily enough, it was not even his innovation to begin with.

>>129279094
>The secondary theme, which is in F major
You mean d minor.
>The development section is very much identifiable and begins on 129 marked "Im Legendenton"
You mean the completely incoherent section that destroys any notion of a development? Norseposter is too musically illiterate to perceive ternary vs sonata form, which is the best case scenario for this formless slop.

>>129279621
>mogs him
By being even less listenable? Hum us a Webern tune on vocaroo from memory.

>>129279462
>Richard Strauss, Szymanowski, Benjamin and Debussy
sounds good, you should go for sure

>>129279462
The Berlin Philharmonic has pretty bad acoustics compared to most concert halls from what I've heard.

>>129279712
D minor is relative of F major, the theme is in fact in F major and functions as subdominant.
>completely incoherent section
Not just musically illiterate, but legitimately deaf. Go troll your own schizocave
>ternary vs sonata form
Use terms you do not understand over at >>>/metal/ dear charlatan.

Wagner is order.

>>129279937
He’s the arch-decadent with deep, nostalgic longings for order.

>>129279932
>the theme is in fact in F major
It is not, it is d minor and appears in your """"""development"""""" section while the F major closes that section. Not that any of this even makes any sense because the entire form of the piece is an incoherent mess.
>Not just musically illiterate, but legitimately deaf
Is that why your idol Charles Rosen himself specifically mentioned this piece of garbage and even more specifically this movement as the death of classical form? Why would he say that if its sticking to proper classical form? Face reality, this is an incoherent pile of formless slop.

>>129280100
thanks for nothing musically illiterate charlatan. next stop, you'll post your shitty takes over at >>>/metal/

>>129280180
If anyone needed further proof you have no idea what you are talking about, its devolving back to spam upon confrontation of your knowledge of the piece and cognitive dissonance where your sad idol Charles Rosen agrees with me. Imagine thinking some shitty incoherent section where a totally unrelated theme gets introduced, played around with in random rotational styling, and never mentioned again in either outer sections is a """"""development"""""" of anything besides the formless romantisloppery that defines these garbage composers.

>>129280235
thanks for schizophrenic verbal diarrhea musically illiterate charlatan, now go back to >>>/metal/

>>129280267
The main theme of the """"development"""" has no relation to either outer sections and can only function as a B in the ternary that would be the best case for this piece, with the final section is just a restatement of the beginning. Its a junk piece typical of romantislop exuberance. Not that I'm even really talking to you anymore (more for lurkers), after all, you're having another spam episode like you usually do whenever you're upset. Its no wonder your title here is "indian child", you certainly act like one. Anyways, I'll take my W, enjoy spamming away again.

>>129280318
>The main theme of the """"development""""
schizophrenical delusions and illiterate charlatanery should go back to >>>/metal/

>>129280318
This is some sophisticated stupidity

>>129280389
Perhaps you can take on norseposter aka indian child's effort and showcase how. Or you could just leave this short useless comment made in frustration over the insult of a piece or composer you enjoy all alone and without defence. Maybe a third option of stating you don't even like the composer and just wanted to leave a useless reply for no reason, which we would all understand to be a poor lie. What will you pick?

>>129280414
Take your meds.

>>129280442
Mind you, here is an argument made by someone IN FAVOR of a sonata form
>The developmental space acts as an episode between the exposition and recapitulation; the episode is rather closed off from the rest of the sonata (even separated through double bar lines at the beginning and end). The development is in c-minor and introduces a new theme in a rotational form. In each rotation, the material is expanded, altered, and sequenced; in this way, the episode does act as a developmental space, although not developing material from the exposition.
The reality is that there is no proper defense for the B section in the Fantasie, it is not a real development, the movement is not of any real sonata form. It is a typical romantic disgrace of form. Even Schumann himself realized it was a pile of shite:
>Schumann himself grew critical of the Fantasie within a year of its publication. In a letter to Hirschbach from 1839 (Schumann 1886, 142), he wrote: “a new Fantasie of mine, in C major, was recently released by Breitkopf and Härtel. Look at the first movement, which I believed the highest achievement at the time (three years ago). I now think differently.”
And so it is with gimmickry and destruction of form: at first a wonder and interest, eventually turning sour with time upon realizing that the ruins and rubble of your destruction were not greater than the structure of the original building you tore down.

This is so sad. Hector's lowest point so far.

>>129280414
>showcase how.
the /metal/slopper expects to be spoonfed while supposedly citing analyses of the very same piece he hasn't even listened to. how embarrassing can one get?

>>129280448
>introduces a new theme in a rotational form.
No new independent thematic material is introduced in the development section (the burden of proof is on the /metal/slopper). This is what happens when /metal/slopper tries to cite some half-assed analysis while being musically illiterate charlatan himself.
Holy shit you're literally doubel digit IQ aren't you

Nebula nox won.

>>129278369
Yet everyone performs Bach and Mahler in their own way is my point.

> so what are we really printing these out for?
I already told you, because the music is the best of the best, and the musicians feel they have something to say.

>>129280485
I suggest you stop replying to our resident /metal/imbecile he's not sentient.

>>129280485
>Yet everyone performs Bach and Mahler in their own way is my point.
If by "their own way" you mean a 5% change in tempo here or there, sure. I mean look at the meltdown people had over Gould's Appassionata. While different interpretaions can have value, they are ultimately in this day and age very, very similar to each other. In the past with people separated from each other, there were likely much greater variations of interpretation. Just as the cultures of each country were much different before globalization and the internet for them to learn from and analyze each other.

>the musicians feel they have something to say.
It is actually the publishers who allow for and push them to make endless repeats, just as Hollywood today can only shovel out repeat movies, repeat franchises, and remasters. Why? Because they sell. This is the model for investors, not for Art. I'm sure (almost) no one who plays a Beethoven cycle in 2026 actually thinks they are bringing anything new to the table, not when they play in such standardized and generic methods.

Performance was more interesting and useful before the advent of recordings and the internet could set standards forever, and be available for endless listening in order to achieve perfect replication. Not that I'm saying there is NO value in modern interpretations, but for crowded composers like Beethoven's solo piano music, there is indeed a strong argument that there is no real purpose of continual recordings in such similar manners.

>>129280544
thanks for pseud rundown /metal/slopper

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For today's opera performance, we listen to Massenet's Thais conducted by Yves Abel and headlined by Renee Fleming.

opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYOyH1rmrsE&list=OLAK5uy_ldV1KMBgbOMwh87935GRe_nNE7Mk5g3MI&index=2

random movement with vocals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slisUyxwtB4&list=OLAK5uy_ldV1KMBgbOMwh87935GRe_nNE7Mk5g3MI&index=1

After this, I'll probably go through Karajan's Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen. Also, when searching up this recording, I saw Massenet has some orchestral suites and the like, so I might check those out too at some point, as I've never listened to Massenet before.

>>129280576
Dude shut up you queermo spaz!

>>129280544
There's more difference than you either notice or are admitting. If you aren't able to tell the difference, and therefore are unable to see the value, then there's nothing really I can say. All I know is Levit's Beethoven isn't Buchbinder's Beethoven isn't Schiff's Beethoven isn't Guy's Beethoven isn't Barenboim's Between isn't Scherbakov's Beethoven. And again, with how great Beethoven is, and how mediocre many of those lesser-known, underperformed composers are, I'd rather spend my days listening to Beethoven's piano sonatas over and over by different musicians with unique visions than the latter. If you disagree, well, then, there's nothing I can really say, because as I said, the multitude of interpretive potential for masterpieces is one of the primary virtues of classical music -- there is no final word, there's always more to say, performance will never die.

>Les pêcheurs de perles (French pronunciation: [le pɛʃœʁ də pɛʁl], The Pearl Fishers) is an opera in three acts by the French composer Georges Bizet, to a libretto by Eugène Cormon and Michel Carré... Set in ancient times on the island of Ceylon (Sri Lanka), the opera tells the story of how two men's vow of eternal friendship is threatened by their love for the same woman, whose own dilemma is the conflict between secular love and her sacred oath as a priestess. The friendship duet "Au fond du temple saint", generally known as "The Pearl Fishers Duet", is one of the best-known in Western opera.

nice

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now playing

start of Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto No. 1 in B-Flat Minor, Op. 23, TH 55
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy3a87QIWh0&list=OLAK5uy_lPUPbBCI9osJG3WMlEjKiCM0F1hiuiiSA&index=2

start of Tchaikovsky: Violin Concerto in D Major, Op. 35, TH 59
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KD48XG_vPA&list=OLAK5uy_lPUPbBCI9osJG3WMlEjKiCM0F1hiuiiSA&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lPUPbBCI9osJG3WMlEjKiCM0F1hiuiiSA

>David Oistrakh was one of those violinists beloved by people who don't especially like violinists. Don't get me wrong, plenty of violin aficionados love him too. But the fact that he played with such warmth of tone and musicality, never indulging in the screeching cat-music stuff that some violinists think sounds flashy, makes him uniquely listenable to folks not into violin playing for its own sake. Perhaps the fact that he was also a distinguished conductor had something to do with it, for he always seems to know where he is--how everything fits together. His performance of the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto is a case in point: soulful, exciting, never ragged or overblown. Add Emil Gilels' epic rendering of the Piano Concerto and how can you refuse? --David Hurwitz

>>129280722
>start of Tchaikovsky: Violin Concerto
I was really surprised what Hurwitz said about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7DsO-BG0i0

The classical period seems like the most round and solid statement of western (European) culture and the classical ideal, but it’s not so. When I listen to Baroque I can hear the music of an entire civilisation that reaches as far as Anatolia, that sounds almost exotic at a time because of its sheer breadth. By comparison the classical period just sounds like the ideals of the Enlightenment and the pressing concerns of a western intelligentsia.

>>129280754
Classical was nothing but a gateway for Wagner. Baroque was nothing but a gateway for Beethoven.

>>129280630
>There's more difference than you either notice
I actually bet with how frequently you swap between interpretations that you wouldn't be able to name any of these people in a double blind controlled test. Given enough time with one interpretation you may memorize each idiosyncrasy of each performance, but when you cycle in and out with new performers each day and each time you listen to a full cycle (not even just repeating one piece again and again), I highly doubt anyone could truly "know" that performance. Maybe if they were as strange as Gould or Pogorelich, sure, but when the question is slight variations of rubato and minor tempo differences? Not a chance.

>performance will never die.
It realistically already has, very few are producing live recordings, and and just as few consumers are listening to or buying them compared to studio recordings. There is this idea that a performer has one special "style" to them, which is modern outlook, in the past people would consistently play things differently for different performances. Peaked in this manner during the Baroque period obviously, and then over the period of the romantic era the performer was gradually choke-holded into being a repetitious robot for the composer, merely acting as a voice for his compositions, rather than a creative artist himself.

>>129280775
That's the most elegant way to put it.

>>129280782
>performance = recording

>>129280782
>I actually bet with how frequently you swap between interpretations that you wouldn't be able to name any of these people in a double blind controlled test. Given enough time with one interpretation you may memorize each idiosyncrasy of each performance, but when you cycle in and out with new performers each day and each time you listen to a full cycle (not even just repeating one piece again and again), I highly doubt anyone could truly "know" that performance. Maybe if they were as strange as Gould or Pogorelich, sure, but when the question is slight variations of rubato and minor tempo differences? Not a chance.
The fact you don't think this is possible at all tells me everything I need to know. Have a good one.

>>129280775
Wagner was western culture soiling its diaper one last time before the modernists ripped its guts out, let’s be honest.

>>129280782
Here you go free interpretationigger
https://youtu.be/V8wL1AR7iqo?si=DWT-FXzS_u2ZUt0Q

>>129280820
But have you ever actually blind tested yourself? Every wine tester thinks they can tell each wine, and yet in a blind test they all magically lose that ability. Not to say you couldn't or haven't memorized a performance through large repeated listenings, but in your case you simply cycle through sets so frequently I highly doubt you have that ability. I mean how many Beethoven cycles have you listened to by now, 30? 50? 80? Nevermind all the other music you listen to, of which you cycle through sets as well.

The idea you could actually memorize all those performances is nonsense. Do you have some sort of higher level memorization that you fail to mention? Were you doing your PHD at age 17? Probably not.

Put 30 different performances of a different Beethoven sonata that are all recorded in modern fashion (IE no obvious hiss/distortions to make it easier to recognize) in a folder, rename them all to the same thing, press shuffle on them, and write down the name for each performer as each performance is played. I bet you that you wouldn't even get 50%.

>>129280630
>isn't Barenboim's Between
Lol

>>129280880
The error you're making is you think the differences between interpretations and cycles are strictly technical, eg various levels of rubato and tempo, when in fact it's emotional/aesthetic. You don't have to know how Gulda and Barenboim precisely play a series of notes on X bar to distinguish the difference because their emotional and musical goals and outcomes are diverse.

>>129280880
>>129280941
In any case, if the differences didn't matter, then it'd be impossible to have preferences. So again, I'm sorry you don't care for one of the best parts of listening to classical music, and I hope one day you come around. There's nothing really left to say if you don't get it.

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Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

The interpreters of 19th century are evidently far more diverse. The effects of isolation period before recordings and the internet - and also centuries-old schools (of singers, pinists) which simply died outleaving only its imitations, pic related - is hard to ignore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kti06UKEJdk
No one is as radical as those two, not even Gould. Almost no one is nearly as good either, with few exceptions.
As no one is as good as Maria Callas. Or Battistini. Or Furtwangler.

>>129280992
I should say the internet was irrelevant here. Performance died way before the internet.

>>129280941
>emotional/aesthetic
Are just various levels of rubato and tempo. Its fine to not believe me, and I don't think you wouldn't be able to recognize ANY performance, but I think you like the rest of humans would only truly care for a small amount of performances enough to do so. It is easy to remember things when they are given a story in our mind, and that is usually done by larger contrasts or routine familiarity.

>>129280963
>if the differences didn't matter, then it'd be impossible to have preferences.
Not what I'm saying, although this isn't actually true. Humans seek patterns even when there is none, in an infinite white room with no distinguishing features we would find certain spots more favorable than others, regardless of actual difference.

Regardless I have never said there is NO difference,

>>129280992
Cortot brings the smiles, Hofmann brings the tears

>>129281020
Speak on that

>>129280992
You still hanging around here after being btfo over the fantasie?
>The effects of isolation period before recordings and the internet
Hilarious how you'll start regurgitating my words the second you agree with them because it feeds your "OLD GOOD NEW BAD", just like you regurgitate the words of youtuber that pushed for your shitty Cortot/Hofmann/Maria Callas meme.

>not even Gould
Complete delusion.