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Daily Learner Bike Thread - /dbt/ 600cc is the recommended minimum edition 01/20/26(Tue)08:39:42 No.28814286
Daily Learner Bike Thread - /dbt/ 600cc is the recommended minimum edition 01/20/26(Tue)08:39:42 No.28814286
Daily Learner Bike Thread - /dbt/ 600cc is the recommended minimum edition Anonymous 01/20/26(Tue)08:39:42 No.28814286 [Reply]▶
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Daily Learner Bike Thread - 600cc RR is the standard learner bike edition
Picrel, a standard learner bike
>THE daily learner bike thread
This thread is for real learner riders, who want to learn properly on a 600 or higher, so that they can get ready for a liter bike. The other thread is for advanced literbikes of 900cc minimum edition.
>Bikes under 900cc - 600RR's are the standard learner bikes
>Learner Motorcycle tricks, like wheelies, stoppies, and the foaming dragon
>Learner gear advice from successful bike chads: you don't need gear if you don't fall off
>Learner Motorcycle Success discussion with literchads, their prospects, and one permaseething chameleon tranny - Who has never posted bike or hand. Never.
>Pulling on strings attached to manifest better cornering in the universe
>600 is the recommended learner bike minimum don't let cowards tell you otherwise
CBR600, GSXR600/750, R6, and ZX6R
>(New map! Email dbtmap3@gmail.com with pic of bike (hosted) and location to be added):
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1oTvWWrLIUa0wWsds9QQdGmsYzFVY nyxs
>Moots pissed, and mods are fed up
gay Links
>https://msf-usa.org
>https://cycle-ergo.com/
>https://superbikeschool.com
STICKY: >the shittest nonsense one could ever read.
Optional viewing
>Twist Of The Wrist: 2
https://youtu.be/ClmFaHuJUDU?si=FU6pnfI1fp4OtgJC
>chameleon tranny Javascriptfags still seething and pretending to be various different posters
>he is MINDBROKEN and CANNOT POST BIKE
>By the way, did you know 125's are actually just scooters and not bikes|?
Its true.
For those who have not got the memo, 125's shaped like bikes are indeed scooters.
>previous learner thread >>28806968
>Literbike thread: >>28812166
276 RepliesView Thread
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The sticky is useless, hence we have removed it.
Here are the standard learner bikes for those wanting to know, in no particular order:
>Honda CBR600
Seen as very user friendly and forgiving, if a bit bland.
Fast enough, and a great choice for those looking for a solid learner bike
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>Laughs in fumes
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(2)
The GSXR 600 and 750
Really fantastic bikes.
A little long in the tooth design-wise, but if it aint broke dont fix it.
Often seen as able to handle more abuse than some of the othe bikes out there.
The 600 is a great starter bike, and for those who are naturally good riders, there is the 750 option for a bit more power for almost the same weight.
An early 2000's to 06 one of these is still a formidable bike, even against today's bikes.
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(3)
Triumph 675 daytona
Fucken awesome engine with really different character to the jap i4's, and enough power to mix it with them.
Very nice bike, but be prepared for old people to talk to you at events about how they had a triumph bach in the 70's
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zx6r
Similar to the CBR, but with Agry Alien styling.
Actually a decent bike, just don't buy one new, as they have a fault from the factory that is causing them to blow up.
Old ones are fine and can be had cheap.
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>>28814286
>>28814300
>>28814308
>>28814319
>>28814337
You are fucking retarded for recommending 600+ for starter bikes. That's why no one posts in these threads, you've failed the "op is a retard" litmus test.
300-450 bikes are the absolute best bikes to learn on; point-period, end of story. Only a consoomer manlet would consider a 600+ bike. You don't need loads of power to learn the limits of grip. You don't need more than 2 cylinders to go over 100mph. You don't need 50+ HP at the top of the rev range when you don't have the confidence to perform good body dynamics.
>t gigachad MT-03 owner, 4 years riding
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>>28814453
>40hp is more than enough for anyone
AHAHAHAHAHHA
PERMALEARNER PUSSY DETECTED
>Lil bro butthurt that actual bikers are riding real bikes
>And that the learner and liter threads are the most popular threads on /o/ since november
Jej
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>>28814453
>4 years riding a lawnmower
>Take my advice bro, im really advanced
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Whats the best way to learn this steering thing?
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>>28814486
Got to try the two string method.
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>By the way, did you know 125's are actually just scooters and not bikes|?
>Its true.
>For those who have not got the memo, 125's shaped like bikes are indeed scooters.
I caused this seething kek
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>>28814454
>>28814482
>Permalerner
>4 years riding a lawnmower
Please, keep going, surely someone else will bump the thread
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>>28814500
>I have been riding a shitty lawnmower for four whole years (4)
>But heres a pic of someone else's cruiser in a car park
>Im an expert biker, no ine can ride a 600, anything more than 40hp is just too much
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Posting in a two smoke thread (learner mode)
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Girls are riding proper learner bikes.
You are not weaker than a girl, are you?
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>>28814710
yes.
The new sticky is pretty much what we have said in the last few learner threads.
>600RR is the standard learner bike; eg CBR, GSXR 600, R6, ZX6R, Daytona 675 etc
>RR derived 600 nakeds work too; eg FSZ600, Bandit 600, Hornet 600 etc
>off roads are tiny engines generally, and usually slow anyway, so shoot for a 600
>for learner who are naturally better riders than others, try wildcard leader bikes like gsxr750, Ducati 848 etc
its that simple.
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Naked learner
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>>28813564
So the issue ended up being that the ignition button was corroded. They fixed it for free and are now delivering it to my city for free on Thursday. Hopefully it's a good ending. For tomorrow and Thursday I'll have to ride the cuckbus to school, then I'll finally have my bike.
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>947 cc
>dyno 115 at the rear wheel
>going to be homologated for WSSP 2027.
>Performance in the same ball park as the new Ducati V2 and R9.
At this point I cant help but think the whole industry was in on phasing out high RPM middle weight bikes, particularly I4's.
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>picrel, chameleon spamming and arguing with himself because people wont post how he wants, in one big thread
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>>28815507
If you want a specific thread about something then make one, otherwise it's dumb to have multiple generals about niche subjects when one thread can satisty all, especially on a board with more cars than bikes.
Also what if someone with years of experience has multiple bikes of different cc and power? and wants to discuss about the hobby with likely minded people? do they have to use a learner bike thread?
I'm not a regular in this general so I don't know the drama behind it, I'm getting into bikes and I remembered that this place existed some time ago that's why I'm asking why the split.
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>>28815512
>want a specific thread about something then make one
Lad, the learner/ liter dichotomy has been in place since November, and they have been the two most active threads on /o/ throughout that time.
Congrats on getting into bikes, have you got a bike yet?
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>>28815518
>Ok but why.
Different topics, and it makes a lot of sense.
Same as you wouldn't really talk about a wrx i. Classic Car General.
>>28815518
Ahh fair enough, what bikes are you looking at?
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>>28815512
>>28815518
stop responding to him and just post in the main thread >>28815363
he thrives off attention, (You)s and his thread being on the front page
so all you have to do is s*ge and not engage and he'll fade away - probably thrashing and screaming making 8 new threads along the way
and now he's just simply lying by saying "it's been in place" since november, he hardly even started spamming them in december, and the only reason for them is so he can garner more attention
the threads are only "active" because at least 70% of the post are him bumping it with stock photos and replying to himself
/o/ isnt a fast board, we dont need multiple threads
bikes, like you say, are a niche, we dont need multiple threads
he's an attention seeking faggot and by his logic there shouldnt just be a thread for every type of bike, but in fact an entire board just for bikes
the only person in the main thread thats going to screech and seethe at a "learner" posting in there is this retard himself
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>>28815521
>Same as you wouldn't really talk about a wrx i. Classic Car General.
Yes, but like I said here >>28815512, bikes are a minority in this board so a split only discourages a good flow of people and discussion (I've seen this before in other generals), shit even a classic bike and modern bike split makes more sense if there's the userbase population to justify it. The activity from what I've lurked seems to be inside drama and not discussion.
>>28815522
So I can post in that general just as normal? Ok
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>>28815534
>So I can post in that general just as normal?
thats a liter bike thread lad.
Post wherever you want, but like I said, posting about learner bikes in a liter thread is like posting a WRX in CCG.
The "user base" is fine, as I said, these two threads have been the most popular threads on the board since they were sorted in November. Before that we had one retard copy/pasting the same lame shit every day for two years lol.
Now he just tries his best to shit up threads for real bikers, as he doesn't even have a bike (weird lol.)
Anyway, you do you boo
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>>28815534
>So I can post in that general just as normal? Ok
yes
the only purpose this thread serves is to split /dbt/, because we made fun of OP for being a faggot, and now he's made it his lifes mission to "ruin" /dbt/ by making threads early and splitting the userbase
a "learner" thread is so backwards ass retarded, its like having a 6th grader teach a 5th graders class, you will learn little and have no sage wisdom imparted on you by other learners
just post in the main thread and if anyone tells you to go to a "learner" thread, tell them to end their own life
he'll probably freak out saying something along the lines of
>ALL BIKES WELCOME, QUADS WELCOME, TRANS WELCOME
but quite literally just ignore and filter
anyone who actually rides a bike cares more about the fact that you ride, rather than what subclass or category of niche you belong to
>>28815363
28815539
its incredible the lengths of schizophrenia this faggot will go to, lying and deceiving, just for a crumb of attention.
retarded nigger, kill yourself
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>>28815546
Kys chamelion tranner. Posted the same stale JavaScript thread for a fucking year at all times lmao, look at you now. Every day shitting and pissing yourself not even talking about bikes kek. It's so beautiful
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>>28815556
Bruh, you need one of these if you are having females onboard.
Also, ride a decent bike.
A chick won't get wet for a guy on a sub-600cc bike.
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>>28815570
Already ride a litre twin but thanks
Wet spots are not uncommon.
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>>28815587
I will stay, and save the world when the great collapse comes
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Uh oh, pics of learner bikes.
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I'm a real girl that just rides scooters. Am I welcomed here /dbt/?
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>>28815664
Rady boy?
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What bike to get a girl like Holo?
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Nc750x. Sv650. 21 years riding 4 different continents. Only amerisharts will need more BHP to avoid Nissan Altima Shaniquas. Nc750x is insanely good low C.O.G, good on fuel. Indestructible. Retard proof. Center stands a must. Knee downs are for race dudes. Scraping pegs is possible with suspension upgrades on both the NC700/750 and the SV650. Fix the front forks first then the rear.
I've had 23 motorcycles over the years.
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>>28815728
Hello Senpai, I'm on my third. I've enjoyed all of my purchases, for different uses. G310, 125 scoot and F850GSA. Its cool that you have owned 23 motos? Can you tell your other faves other than the SV and NC? Did you try any super sports, sumos and ADVs?
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What bike to get rid of this feel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7R3X_ms3Ng
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>>28815830
I would've liked it if it didn't have a stiff rear. Its so close to a great bike. It doesn't have to ride like a GS, but just like a himmy 450 would be enough.
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good thread is over here >>28815363
>>28815970
thats not a post for this thread
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Are these poo bikes really as bad as people here are saying, or is that bullshit?
No pun intended
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>>28816142
I don't have one. I see them around, talked to owners. Peeps seem to like them (the RE twins, I mean.)
They are tuned to ride like an original brit twin (which I have ridden) from what I can tell. So easy going and comfy rather than franetic like a Japanese bike.
The RE 650 twin is something like 45 HP. If you want 65 you can install the S&S cam kit. But then it will also feel like a jap bike (according to the guy I met who did it, then changed it back.)
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>>28816146
Thanks man, I appreciate it but i didn't realise they were that low on power.
They look good, but to be honest triumph have decent small nakeds like the street triple which has decent power as well as the looks. If RE did a street triple type thing i would be interested i guess, but again i end up back looking at triumphs
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>>28816149
They are like the Moto Guzzi V7, for people who want a particular kind of experience that isn't hooning. It's a bike that's just nice to ride around on. I feel that with my 1982 GS450, I keep it in part because it feels like my 67 Bonny did but without the constant strandings.
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>>28816151
>constant strandings
Based british bike enjoyer
And i hear you, but for the same money id take a used street triple and get that sweet i3 engine man.
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>be me
>following behind pickup 3 car lengths or so at 30 mph in left lane
>about to crest a blind hill
>retarded alzheimers boomer bitch in Subaru forester in the right lane ahead of me decides she must occupy the space I am about to be in at this very moment
>at the same time the shitty pickup truck with nonfunctional brake lights starts slowing down hard
>whatever, just accelerate and swerve into the gap ahead of subaru and into her lane
>crest the the hill instantly after swerving and see the back of an SUV rapidly filling my field of vision, there’s a quarter mile long line of traffic stopped immediately over the blind hill
>ohshitnigger.bmp
>somehow manage to squeeze into the center of the lane and split all the way to the light at the bottom as it turns green still at 30 mph
>didn’t even so much as tap anyone
Br/o/s I haven’t had a close call like this in years. Shit didn’t even feel real in the moment, maybe divine intervention really exists because there’s no way I should have escaped that.
I have learned that I am overestimating the IQ of drivers in NoVA and to NEVER be next to anyone for more than a few seconds. Maybe should have just braked hard too but there were cars behind me, and I didn’t think I had enough stopping distance if the subie got in front of me and also stopped behind the truck.
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>>28815978
No, not at all. I love my Himmy. The little jeet is far better off-road than it has any right to be. Its suspension absolutely cucks the 300l Rally and even some of the bigger Jap bikes.
The 650s won't blow your socks off with power, but they've got tons of character and are loads of fun. Royal Enfield hired a bunch of Brits to do their recent design and engineering, so it makes sense that you'd get a vintage Bong vibe from them, just without the issues that come with owning a vintage Brit bike.
Pic related, I took my Himmy out on the trail today.
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>>28816137
probably best to ask in the real thread >>28815363
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>>28815978
Honestly good bikes. Obligatory fortnine vid comparing oil quality. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9GAUo8eUXeU&pp=ygUMb2lsIGZvcnRuaW5l
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I'm gettin somewhere, dbt. Finally getting a little motion with the wheelies.
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Wheelies were all trash but it's only my second day back to practicing seriously.
https://youtu.be/PpkcnQ-BFNU
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>>28816265
>>28816291
Based, how have you been learning?
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>>28816198
What is the quality of the metal like on the frame etc?
To be honest the low power is a deal breaker for me.
If they had a 100hp 600 i might be up for it, but like i said to the other anon, i end up back looking at triumph street triples.
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>>28816377
Just been going for it. Revving it up and dumping the clutch until I can get a feel for when the front wheel is going to come up. I can get the wheel to come up now. Now I need to get a feel for riding it out and how high I need the front end to come up in order to modulate the throttle to ride it out.
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>>28816385
Build quality is fine. I'm not going to go start taking my frame apart and send you a mass spectrometer reading, but it doesn't feel cheap. Power is plenty off-road and satisfactory on-road. With its gearing, it's plenty comfortable cruising at California highway speeds without feeling stressed. It's not a sport bike with loads of power, but that's not the point.
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>two threads
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>>28816387
Basically like he said here
>>28816431
Thank you test-case anon.
In my head i was picturing the metal to be akin to those early Chinese generators. The kind of thing you might put the kickstand down and wonder if it will hold the bike up.
I think the speed would be an issue for me, to be honest its a deal breaker, but they are a nice looking bike nevertheless.
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>>28815664
>Obvious thot
No.
Why can't most 'biker girls' just set aside their gender and simply be someone that rides a fucking bike. Imagine the severe anxiety of actually enjoying a hobby instead of making their gender their only worthwhile input.
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>>28816570
Why would I be?
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>>28816454
Two threads
My country is on the brink of civil war
At least I've got booze.
No time to die like the present I guess.
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>>28816688
Faggot. More girls for me. Yay!
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Ok, pic rel girl for me. Imagine me and my wife Holo on a GSXR 1000 where she hugs me from the back when we are doing triple digits.
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>>28816698
We have a beautiful child and I move on to R1250GSA and become an ADV dad.
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>>28816704
Or just stop waffling around and get an M72 instead, can fit both your wife and child on board.
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>>28816704
My wife and my daughter love me a lot and we live happily ever after.
Thanks for reading my blog post.
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>>28816708
When its the three of us, I choose a Suzuki Jimny. If its just around the town, with either my daughter or wife, running some errands, I'll take my 125 scoot.
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>>28816713
Thanks anon, you are the best.
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>>28816720
My daughter learns to ride on a pw50. My wife has a DR650, thanks for asking. My lil daughter is learning to do small whoolies. Kids these days learn so fast anon.
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DR650 mentioned
I flew across the country and rented one to go riding with a mate, good bike and had several people along the way say they'd had one at some stage and talk about how capable they are
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>>28815664
You know, you could just post and leave your sex out of it, and nobody would know the difference. You are a woman, though, so of course you had to bring it up for attention.
There are actually are one or two girls who post in dbt semi-regularly and mostly nobody is the wiser.
You are a whore, go away.
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CB650R (w/ E-clutch) or ZX4RR for my next bike. What do anons think?
I live in the US, so the Kawi's wind protection will be appreciated on the highway, but I also don't like dealing with plastics when doing oil changes and such. I've never ridden a bike with e-clutch or quick shifter but my impression is that the e-clutch functions as a quick shifter but also offers clutchless riding from a stop.
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>>28816730
What's wrong with it?
It's fairly normal in my opinion.
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>>28816800
I'd choose either the CB650R or CBR650R with e-clutch. IMO fairings and windshield is nice for highways given the riding posture is comfortable enough. Your understanding of the e-cluctch is correct. Take a test ride of CB and CBR, see which one suits you better. You'll learn how to remove the fairings if you can do your own oil change. They are not that difficult.
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>>28816800
Fairings really are not that big of a deal. It's not something you have to deal with that often since it's not an old shit bike breaking down all the time (pic rel).
Typically you can just take a couple screws loose and pull them back far enough to get in there to change the oil.
I would personally do a CBR650r instead of either of those.
The zx4r does look really nice though.
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>>28816832
I mean it's just a shaft drive bike, BMW still makes bikes in that configuration.
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>>28816854
>>28816841
By the way, regarding the 636, do not get a new one. New models have a fatal flaw that is bricking people's bikes. If you want a 636, get an older model.
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>>28816862
Google refuses to translate that lol
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How often do you guys do track days, if at all?
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>>28816922
>yamme noob
>opinion disregarded.
Srsly tho, WTF Kawasaki?
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>>28817081
meant for
>>28817033
Clearly I am no smarter than YN
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>>28817081
>>28817083
I mean, there are a fuckton of articles about it out there.
Its cool,.just dont buy a 23 onwards one.
If its a learner bike,.you dont want it new anyway as you may well drop it
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>>28817091
>>28817068
Just trying to convince myself to do a track day this year. Sportbike Track Time has cheaper track days in my state now at Talladega Grand Prix. So I thought it might be a good chance to see if I like it. Long drive for me but I really want to be able to say I at least tried a track day.
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>>28817102
Honestly worth doing just to test the water if nothing else.
If you go hard they can be actually hard work, like "drenched in sweat" hard work.
Were you going to use your own bike, or use theirs?
Most have a track day school where you can use one of their biles. Might be easier to do that first.
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>>28817053
The track doesn't really hold any appeal for me anymore, personally. I prefer exploring and riding to interesting places on cool roads myself.
Pic related, found this imprisoned Yeti on my way to Borrego Springs.
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>>28815292
First time riding it out. To the gym. I kept accidentally honking when trying to turn the indicator on. Put it in neutral once or twice when I didn't mean to. But otherwise fun.
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>>28814286
She cute
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>>28815323
>Bloated large displacement low rpm twins and triples that produce less performance and less joy
We're going backwards. At least we can count on Suzuki to keep producing the exact same gsxr 600/750 for another decade and a half, probably, hopefully.
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>>28817251
>old
I wouldn't even say old. They are still modern, more advanced and built to a higher standard than 99% of the shit on the road. Not just bikes. The only truly new technology that actually matters are those coatings (nikasil or we) they put on shit like the bores and bearing surfaces.
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>>28817387
mental illness.
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Betcha this thing doesn’t sell for shit and goes away in two years
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>>28817370
Do they not do silicate coatings on motorcycle engines? I don't imagine the engines would last very long of they didn't.
>>28817251
They are amazing machines. Tried and true.
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Halp
Which color should I get? I'll be wearing it on the street (under a jersey or jacket or maybe over idk) and in the desert. Will white keep me cooler than black? Will I look like a space man in the white? I guess I can always paint it.
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https://youtu.be/5CG56bH53jU
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>>28817522
no, it looks like general grievous head
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>>28817387
>>28817400
YOU ARE A WATERMELON TRANNY
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How come BMW didnt do a S600R for learners like yamaha did with the r6, kawasaki with the zx6r etc etc?
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Hello Anons, I'm planning to take my 300 to office lunch and not my nice bike. Am I being paranoid? I don't want people to know I got a nice bike recently. I've never had to care before because I've only owned poor people things.
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>>28817522
"How's it hanging?"
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>>28817854
Danke senpai.
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>>28817852
I can't bring my BMW motorcycle when my boss comes in a ratty 20 year old car. Its his choice, he is not poor or anything. Also, I don't want my coworkers to even think of me, I just want to be invisible, except to that one cute girl that I don't talk to. Its a struggle isn't it?
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How would you distinguish learner crusiers vs advanced crusiers?
Displacement and whatnot is vastly different so how would it work sorting them?
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>>28817918
I'm just asking in general because the thought came by my mind and I didn't know.
>>28817921
So whats the cut off from learner to advanced? What constitutes an advanced crusiers compared to a easier to ride learner one? Seems less rigid than sport bikes
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>>28817974
gatekeeping itt
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>>28818009
Yep, more CI's, less power.
>>28818011
>Cruisers use cubic inches, which are three time tbe size of a cubic centimeter
American's can't into math. That's why they lost their place in the world.
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Thread needs moar bikes in dirt.
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>>28817974
Is it just the torque that's the skill factor or just managing the sheer weight of it all?
>>28818003
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>>28818130
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>>28818114
I have '04 600S as the first bike I actually own, actually getting to rev it out completely to redline and it sings great with carbs and custom muffler. Last carbed ones are so pretty as well. The only dislikes I have are regarding front brakes (too sharp and non-linear, felt this on other Bandits too) and poorly mounted foot pegs. Supposedly they have weak frames but at least it's steel (LMAO yamaha). The bike is just so simple with the oil radiator.
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>>28818161
How does one turn like this?
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>>28818225
https://youtu.be/GSRhGCl4_rk?si=Z9nirwUudHppT_1E
RELAX THE SHASSY
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I'm so excited to go back to the snake tomorrow, got my fazer working again and I'm ready to fly through those corners.
This one corner is so pretty I'm glad it's a slow corner
https://streamable.com/rfgkzy
>>28818124
>moar bikes in dirt.
Agree
https://streamable.com/rcqeya
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ECU came for the Ninja650. Can't wait to see how how much better it feels with a tune, k&n filter, and a new chain
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>>28817974
>1200+ is for advanced cruisers, who are now qualified to HYB
kekkin
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>>28818003
>gallon cruiser
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>>28818225
Try it, preferably somewhere soft to start with.
I think my first time drifting was with a YB100 my brother bought.
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>>28817836
>>28817877
>>28817881
are girls with purple associated with BMW??? Hijiri is purple and is associated with Ducati.
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my gf is getting her moto license currently and im thinking of buying this gladussy for her. 27k km on the odo and the previous owner even replaced that disgusting original front light, and all that for only 2k€. would be a perfect first bike for a girl, right?
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>>28820022
I'm not a tiktok homosexual so I'm not interested in crotch rockets. I already got pic related a while ago.
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Is dbt dead now? Did discord kill it just like it did with the trucker general?
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>>28821270
Migrate to the new thread when this one is done or now. It's up to you.
>>28821208
>>28821208
>>28821208
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>>28821424
Nah bro those are too small realistically.
The minimum for a learner is a 600cc i4 for sports bikes, and more for other classes.
A CBR500 (lel) is slower than a fuggen prius.
>Picrel. A shitty "bike" for people who are too scared to ride a real learner bike
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>>28820723
To be fair the scariest part was trying to avoid stalling when pulling out on any main road. If I buy myself a liter it will be because I like the tall gears and riding at lower RPMs when I have to go longer distances. ZX9R felt really comfy and planted considering how raw it is otherwise.
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>>28821689
It's C2 I think, 1999 model. Dad's bike and he still keeps it. One that still had a single large headlight. Speedo goes to 300kph if I'm not mistaken, though it got swapped for a new one later as the old one caught moisture and started showing like 50% less speed lol.
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>>28814286
>>28814453
In my country you can only ride up to 150cc for the first year after getting your license.
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>>28821908
Argentina, motorcycle license which is separate from the car license. Just checked and that's only if you're under 21. If you're over 21 you can ride up to 300cc for your first year.
https://www.argentina.gob.ar/seguridadvial/licencianacional/clasesysub clases
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>>28821850
>1999
Congrats anon, you have a C2 bike. While not as refined/upgraded as much as the E1/E2 bikes that specfic bike did recieve updates that remedied issues with the C1. Izza good bike. If you ever get a chance to jump on a 00' E1 or 01' E2 then do not hesitate swapping.