Never played in one but I feel like Exalted and M&M would work well together

Cyberpunk maybe? There was a splat for Chtulhu punk, it could work. It would be shadowrun cranked up to 15.

Newfag GM/storyteller to be, got the basics for 1st ed and 2nd ed (that would be core, GM compendium and screen, because I like having a screen for reference and the compendiums were cheap enough), plus savant&sorcerer so I have some reference for more spells and stuff. I can work out some conversion or create spells inspired by the ones in the book if we end up playing 2nd ed. There's a cheap book of 3 circles around so I might nail that as well. The suggested books for 2nd ed like the books of sorcery are less cheap so they might come later. I always have PDFs in case I need them right away.
I read the Storyteller's vault style guide expecting a few tips and tricks, but it's just a few pages that are mainly about themes and moods, kinda underwhelming, but at least it says how the editions differ I guess.
Now taking notes on the Essence quickstart.

Getting pretty hyped ngl, looking forward to our first session in some time, and the books look like an interesting read.

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>>97483350
Excited for you, have fun brother

>>97483277
Tainted Grail: Fall of Avalon is a vidya but it's basically Exalted if humanity had to flee their homeland because of the Great Contagion and then the new lands they arrived at were full of Wyldness and Fair Folk, and they were losing the war against the Fair Folk so they figured out how to turn their king into a Solar exalt and push away the Wyld

>>97483420
Thank you man, the other guy that tried the system told me he tried 1st ed, so we'll have a chat and compare to what will come out of the test trial with essence. Haven't been this pumped in a while, I want to make a good first impression to get them on board. And then we all dive deep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQagJF5pgnw

It's an old Xbox 360 game but it always makes me think of Exalted and vice versa

>>97483463
Ah, I remember that. It was a pretty underwhelming Dynasty Warriors wannabe with a fantasy coating. Nothing particularly remarkable comes to mind.

>>97483491
You being the super powered main character running around slicing up armies with your daiklaive, while "supported" by armies of mortals feels a lot like 2e Mass Combat. At least to me.

>>97483507
Ah yes, no arguing that.

I think Devil May Cry is a great way to get inspired for what Exalted combat should feel like, but with less guns

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>>97483277
>Besides WoD and/or CoD, and maybe Scion or Godbound, what settings work best for crossover campaigns with Exalted?
Dungeons the Dragoning 40k proves that a 40k merger somehow works. The Cthulhu Mythos / Call of Cthulhu would be pretty cool, I think, and I've put some thought into making that happen. Shadowrun feels obvious, the Exalted are basically juiced up physads with a stamina bar and more love from the developers. There are some GURPS worlds that'd work well - Infinite Worlds and Monster Hunters for starters. You could probably do some kind of crossover with Type Moon / nasuverse stuff pretty cleanly, either in the urban fantasy modern time, in many of the historical ages, or even an outright setting clash or fusion where Gaia is Gaia and returns to Creation, fusing the worlds together the edges. Gilgamesh as a Solar is so classic a reference for people trying to understand Exalted it's a shock I've never actually seen it done.

>>97483277
>Predevelopment
Infernals Companion
Essence Extended
>First Draft
Alchemicals Companion: Avatars of Brass and Shadow
Essence Player’s Guide novella 2
Essay Collection lol last seen here
>Redlines
For the March Lords (Essence Player’s Guide novella 1)
>Development
Essence Storyteller’s Guide
Sidereals Jumpstart
>Post_Approval Development
Infernals last seen here
>Post-Editing Development
Riders from the Sunless Lands: The Abyssals Companion
>Art Notes Prep
Sidereals Companion (Agents of Heaven)
Champions of the Divine Flame
Infernals: Crowned by Hellfire
>Art Direction
Essence Player’s Guide
>Layout
Sidereals Storyteller Screen
Abyssals Storyteller Screen
Alchemicals: Forged by the Machine God
>Press
-Crowdfunded projects (including screens)
Exigents Storyteller Screen: At Studio2
Exigents: Printing. Proofing printed cover sample
Sidereals: Quoting
Abyssals
so alchemicals hasn't updated in a quarter of a year, frustrating as it's the closest thing to release. seems my estimation of the backer pdf releasing soon after the year start was optimistic
i'll be back with the weekly in a few days

>>97484048
You basically just described Final Fantasy 16, except 16 didn't have 1/10th of DMC's rizz

>>97485442
Does Final Fantasy itself not have similar aesthetics and tropes to Exalted? Like, that is to say, hasn't Exalted been deliberately taking inspiration from Final Fantasy from day one?

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>>97485644
Not really, except that the main character in FF7 had an impractically huge sword. Exalted is westerners aping eastern mythology, FF settings are asians take a sort of pick and mix approach to western mythology, especially nordic stuff.

>>97485651
>Not really
Wrong answer, dumbass.

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>>97485722

>>97485651
Exalted's also writers "aping" Tanith Lee, Moorcock, a bunch of other Western fantasy novels, various mythologies and so on. And throwing in WoD references, obviously.

>>97482242
That's not true.

>>97485644
The storyteller's guide does mention some FF games as inspiration sources.

>>97485871
nta, I'm the guy he was replying to. I didn't call him on it because depending on how much of a flaming imbecile your Storyteller is being, it might legitimately take dozens of Crafts to be as good as a medieval peasant. Some banal swamp rats think the work of a seamstress, a tailor, a lace-maker, and a pattern-maker are all different Crafts. That taking Craft (Blacksmith) does not let you craft with silver or gold or firewands or locks or clocks or machinery or magical materials, being purely the refining of iron and steel.

These todgers are the worst, and they smell of the sick they provoke in people. They do, however, exist.

>>97485959
Frankly, the Element-based array of Craft skills was a mess but it was infinitely less headache-inducing than the current paradigm.

>>97485959
You have to pay individually for languages, Craft is already powerful enough without giving it even more consolidated powers

>>97486009
The worst part of the Element-based array was that they stopped using it in favor of putting all the interesting crafting abilities into exotic crafts and thaumaturgies, resigning the base array to useless effects only by this negligence. Alchemy having no relation to Craft (Water) which includes such things as cooking, pharmacy, and poison-making. Geomancy having no relation to Craft (Earth)'s masonry and earthworks. Artifacts having no direct relation to Craft (Fire). Magitech, admittedly it's own bucket of worms trying to do the opposite by absorbing every other craft into one super-ability, having no relation to Craft (Air), which involves the crafting of the precision instruments and jewelry that practically define magitech. I don't know what Craft (Wood) is supposed to be doing off the top of my head, probably the Art of Enchantment, but that's mostly a function of Craft (Wood) seeming like the Craft for anyone who can't get better.

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>>97486051
What I'm hearing is that you want the list of craft abilities crafters have to take to look like
>http://exalted.xi.co.nz/wiki/Thus_Spake_Zaranephilpal/CraftList

>>97486179
That's a start, though obviously some of them need to be tiered, like traps or manse will need woodworking or masonry as bases to build on, and something like weapons is far too broad, considering it took at least four master craftsmen to make a sword

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>>97485959
This would apply

>>97486188
Does Craft (Needles) - a canon craft type by the way - apply to crafting nails?

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>>97486196
>perhaps at +1 difficulty
In practice this is disastrous due to the system's chronic lack of granularity.

So, did the creator of Quixalted Extended ever make rules for Getimians? I ask this because I found rules for Liminals floating around as well, so I wondered if there was any more material that was done later. In any case, where does he upload QE files?

>>97485442
This but all of Final Fantasy, ever. Final Fantasy has always been the video game franchise equivalent of that one girl at the party who's trying way too hard to be popular.

>>97486409
>So, did the creator of Quixalted Extended ever make rules for Getimians?
Not afaik. Liminals were at least in 2e.

>In any case, where does he upload QE files?
To be honest all of the ones I have were directly uploaded to the thread, but 4chan doesn't allow that anymore iirc so I don't know.

>>97485749
The weird thing about 3e Ligier is that I actually thought 2e Ligier had somewhat more originality to him. The 3e one isn't done as awful as, say, Lilith and the Lover were. But he is transparently Azrharn painted green instead of his own character.

The idea that ALL of Malfeas' souls embody his self-loathing in 3e, and that as a result Ligier no longer hates but actually loves him in a pitying kind of way, is kinda funny as a statement about the Yozis' own impression of how futile their escape is. In 2e Malfeas is a humiliated but active tyrant who still thinks he can win the salty runback. In 3e Malfeas is so depressed he barely seems to do any Demon Emperor things at all with Hegra running the Ministries instead.

>>97486290
Yeah, I much prefer the Elemental style of Crafting, less fuss

If I were in charge of design:
>Craft skills are all very broad, like Craft (Smithing) for anything based on shaping metal or Craft (Clothes) for anything involving spinning, weaving, sewing or working with cloth. There is no Craft (Artifacts).
>New Craft skills have a flar cost, like specialties.
>Every exalt type has a charm that lets them craft something with any skill, like spinning metal into thread and weaving it into a daiklaive. Or just getting new Craft skills temporarily.

Using 3e's social system, how hard is it to tell a follower of yours that they expect one of us in the wreckage?

>>97486823
That's a Life-Changing Task (which can explicitly include certain death), that requires them to have a Defining Tie towards you and then it's a simple Cha or Man+Presence roll vs their Resolve to make a Persuade Action.

If they don't already have a Defining Tie you first need to leverage another intimacy they hold to boost their existing Intimacy towards you to Defining level with an Instill roll. Since Followers have "flocked to your banner" I'd assume they default to Major level intimacy towards you so it'd only need to be increased one level, again with Cha or Man+Pre vs Resolve.

>>97485651
The hearthstones were ripped off from FF7.

>>97485749
It is more "WoD writers writing the fantasy equivalent of WoD, while pretending to not be WoD".

The more I read of 1e and its "inspirations", the more I notice that it.

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>>97486443
>the videogame franchise that has defined JRPGs for entire generations
>"the video game franchise equivalent of that one girl at the party who's trying way too hard to be popular"

In 1E Exalts just seemed to randomly Exalt (Panther being one of the stand-ours, standing on a balcony after a night of drugs and sex and realizing his life was hollow is a cool character moment, but not particularly glorious) and it might because in 1E Exaltations seem to look for people with "great destinies" rather than exclusively looking for people doing something glorious at the time, and I would guess that if the time of your "great destiny" has already come and gone, or maybe hasn't happened yet, it can still pick you (like how the Bull of the North had already completed his life or how Panther rose to be the best pit fighter)
Of course, a "great destiny" and being glorious/heroic often go hand and hand, somebody assigned a destiny like that will have the skills and abilities needed to complete that destiny

>>97487659
Overthinking the mechanics of Exaltation is the exact reason we're stuck in the numinous mudcore quagmire of joyless creative bankruptcy known as 3e. And before you jump up and ASCKHUALLY me, no, the shit they did towards the end of 2e was not good either.

>>97486469
Some of the lore got more one dimensional and also more homogeneous in 3e, all Lunars having a built-in rage against the Realm is another example.

>Malfeas & Ligier.
It is also because they want the players to not think about the Yozi, and push the 3rd circles as the Main Evil Bad Guy.

>>97487613
In Japan, it is Dragon Quest.

The aped Final Fantasy, can come as try hard if you started playing JRPGs before the Playstation 1 generation.

>>97487685
>the shit they did towards the end of 2e was not good either.
It was weird to read some of the end of edition charms, they were treated as programs to be installed.

>>97487806
Instead of focusing on gameplay that actually happens and making it more complex and enjoyable they focused on high essence play. This was a terrible choice. It was pure mental masturbation - literally - I'm pretty sure some of them were jerking off to their spreadsheets.

Imagine if all that work went into different styles of play for the essence levels Exalted was actually built for. It's rather sad if you stop and think about it.

>>97483277
Merging Exalted with other non white wolf settings feels weird to me. I've seen people try mutants and masterminds, which I imagine would work well enough. It's just that system, while flexible, is sorta boring to actually play.

>>97489125
Could do worse. Could have to deal with a spastic not shutting up ever about his totally epic Exalted/K6BD crossover idea.

>>97489151
Everything about that sounds shitty but I hope they have fun. I personally don't get K6BD, it feels very high school but in a bad way.

I will say that I've thought about running a Morrowind C0da x Exalted setting but that's more of a me thing. I like both those things. Or something like, I don't know, DC meets Exalted.

Unironically asking for a friend. The guy in question is a wod buff that has a shitload of books and is working on a big campaign hoping he will have the time to actually run it. In the meantime he brings oneshots as a GM and just plays as a player when he doesn't.
Now, there's a crossover of wod and exalted, but there are three files in the repository, with one being the core, one the compendium and a 1.1 version, Do we need all three of them, or is the 1,1 the superior, updated core.
He is very committed to playing so I hope I can bring him on board with this, and the crossover looks like the perfect opportunity.

>>97487685
Let's be honest, overthinking in general has been a blight on Exalted.

Ain't that deep niggas

Sometimes shining men can just hip toss mountains and box titans before getting drunk and shitting the bed, simple as.

>>97487806
It's a curious coincidence, but I'm listening to an exalted podcast and they just mentioned that there indeed was a theme of the end of editions focusing on alchemicals, where the charms were, as you say, treated as software to be removed or installed.

>>97489164
It's a case of the setting being infinitely more interesting than the story or the characters in it. The story for all of its subversive pretentions is very by the numbers and rather boring and predictable barring a couple twists, and the characters are a bunch of cardboard cutouts. The protagonist is the worst of them all, evey scene focused on her is an exercise in endurance.

>>97487795
Are you stupid? They're both considered pillars of domestic RPGs in Japan.

>>97489227
>Sometimes shining men can just hip toss mountains
Not in 3e, can't get the leverage on an object that pig

>>97489438
OINK OINK

>>97489125
The problem is that, it started over 1e, unfortunately, they copied WoD's elder paradigm.

>>97489245
Alchemicals being the responsible for the robotization, would be poetic.
Specially how Solars and Infernals take the misblame.

>>97489309
I don't even think the setting is interesting. It's empty, soulless and boring. I honestly can't picture how anyone actually lives an enjoyable life there and that's one of the biggest sins of a fantasy setting for me.

You can do weird and alien and high school philosophical but the moment it becomes a chore to be 'part of the setting' then I'm just not interested. Too many fantasy settings do that shit and I just don't care that you wrote a book with an infinite suffering machine. It's not even realistic - I'm no one special and my life has been pretty rad. People in the past also had pretty rad lives all things considered, even if the past was horrifying.

But I haven't check out that comic for years so I dunno, maybe it got better. Or less... edgy/dorky. It's why I love Morrowind so much. As weird and beginner level college philosophy it is, you can imagine ash yams being yummy and the bugs being weird to eat. Scribs are just cute. Kwama eggs look weird but you can see people eating giant eggs. A lot of weird fantasy misses the whole "I could live here and be happy" aspect. Or at least "If things got better I could see myself living here". Something to that effect.

>>97487685
I feel like numinous is trying to think less about the setting, draping a cloth over a box and saying "it just works" by trying to add mysticism to everything

>>97490073
>Numinous lore.
It is more to create mystery boxes m, and make the concepts grander than they actually are.

>>97490073
>>97490117
Consider that the overexplanation and navel gazing pushed literally every edition so far into weird corners that ended up sucking, such as the overabundance and importance of magitech, morphing Exalted into a sci-fi setting in actuality. It's okay for things to be miraculous and inexplicable, it's even okay for a lot of things to be so.
>>97489125
Mutants and Masterminds has, without question, been the best way to play Exalted for me. You could probably use other superhero systems too

>>97490170
I really love how simple but effective the powers scale in that system. Sadly, from what I recall, in practice it's "Roll a 20, maybe reroll it several time" which was very.... ehhh... It's possible it's more tactical then I remember though desu.

>>97490170
Exalted was a post apocalyptic magitech setting since day one.
The problem seems that the later 2e writers pushed things too far, now the same writers are pushing things too far in the other direction.

>>97490302
I get the magitech stuff and I don't mind it because people find it cool but damn if it's not my thing. Final Fantasy just takes things too far sometimes.

The sun being a robot is peak qualityslop.

>>97490364
Yes, like I said they took things too far.

Instead of "Solar charms are Essence manipulation techniques", they went "solar charms are Essence manipulation programs and files", now it is "charms are numinous capabilities of your character".

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>>97490364
>The sun being a robot is peak qualityslop.
It is more of a "contrarian"-exaggerationslop.

>Mythological sun gods had chariots and barques? Conky doesn't have a mere wood toy, he has a giant robot!!

>>97490460
I'll give it that it makes sense in the setting and that a sun train is objectively cool, it's just. Yeah. Plus it takes away a lot from Alchemicals imo, which is where most of the robot magitech should take place. Creation should be more... organic yet powerful? With a ton of variety.

>>97490460
I like the Daystar being both a sun and a giant weapons platform that you can visit, but it being able to transform into a mecha was always kind of meh for me

>>97490492
>Creation should be more... organic yet powerful? With a ton of variety.
I feel like First Age technology should be highly customized to the Solar who designed it, one Solar liked using highly specialized crystals grown in underground crystal farms, but another relied on specially designed six-armed three-mouthed bio-constructs that produced their parts by praying to certain gods in a factory-cathedral for highly specific amounts of time and needed highly specific diets so that they could vomit up the parts needed

>>97490575
I agree with this I think. Variety is the name of the game, each one master who knows how many axioms or whatever the flip.

>>97490278
The tactics are about conditions, learning when to shift yourself between accuracy and effect, and targeting the right defense.

>>97490389
The thing is that some charms should have always been just your character traits. I fully agree with some of them being intentional power and some of them being just part of your Exalted self.

>>97490575
>>97490714
Yeah, that's how I like to picture First Age artifice, too. I also tend to picture Shogunate magitechnology, and Shogunate in general, as more standardized.

>>97490170
Going to second (third?) mutants and masterminds just being a better way to play the game. No Dawn problem, no unchecked subsystems, no underpowered options. It just werks

>>97490983
I think lower level magitech should be more standardized, but the Celestial/Solar level stuff should be weird but powerful
The Shogunate can maintain a certain level of baseline through careful passing of knowledge, but once the great stuff is broken it's broken and the Sidereals don't have the time or manpower to fix the city water purification plant that also cleanses addictions and mental issues from those who drink from it

>>97491140
>Sidereals don't have the time or manpower to fix the city water purification plant that also cleanses addictions and mental issues from those who drink from it
Bro give me some more numinous over this shit

>>97491292
NTA but why the fuck? First Age shouldn't just be 21st century America but technology is magical, but basic shit like water purification, food production and such needs to be there, and as a part of First Age being grand and awesome, that stuff should be advanced.

>>97489217
>Now, there's a crossover of wod and exalted, but there are three files in the repository, with one being the core, one the compendium and a 1.1 version, Do we need all three of them, or is the 1,1 the superior, updated core.
Core was the first rendition of Exalted vs World of Darkness. The Companion was a supplementary book that came out later with bonus content for it. 1.1 Revised is both of those books combined and revamped into something like a new edition. You would either want both Core and Companion together, or Revised on it's own.

Whether or not revised is better is up for debate, but it's definitely a prettier package. I personally do think it's better and just using that is the way to go.

>>97491140
>Sidereals don't have the time or manpower to fix the city water purification plant that also cleanses addictions and mental issues from those who drink from it
The funny thing is that exactly this kind of shit with purely beneficial knock-on effects and which can rely on local manpower once it's set up is exactly the kind of thing Sidereals should put other things aside to have the time to fix.

>>97490553
That's my feelings on it as well. I'm fine with it being a place, but it being able to turn into a mech is a bridge too far.

>>97491472
As beneficial and impactful as that would be, it'd be a diversion from Sidereals' actual job of making sure that Fate keeps working.

>>97491473
A fuckhuge palace is what I think the Dun should. I mean, like, it should also be a giant ball of fire - or something fire-like, probably something distinct from the element of fire - but with tunnels and rooms and grand halls within. Maybe it could be a palace that can also fire beams of sunfire, that seems fine to me. I agree that it being a mecha is pretty silly.

>>97491504
>the Dun
Fuck, I should really proofread my posts. The Sun, of course, not the Dun.

>>97491493
No as in specifically it would have beneficial knock-on effects that would make the Sidereal's actual job easier in the long term. A large amount of the bullshit that Sidereals have to deal with ultimately tracks back to essence-users doing something unreasonable like summoning demons or the undead or fracturing reality to pursue their mad obsession or whatever. Fae coming into the world regularly use addiction to substances only they can supply to influence people and that's another major source of essence users being assholes. A wide-spread addiction and derangement cleanser is exactly the kind of thing that would curtail or mitigate fate errors across a wide area as the locals get effected, spread word of the miraculous effects, and it knocks on to people from further away who're hotspot problems getting urged to travel to place with miracle mind-healing waters.

>>97491459
Thank you anon.

>>97491389
Sorry, but I read water plant and you lost me. Make that shit overtly magical, or the result of some grandiose heroic action. My ass is not here for water utilities.

>>97491732
My ass is not here for details of the First Age in general, but if First Afe was to be detailed, then the way mundane but necessary shit is handled should definitely be a part of the details provided. Also how do you picture a water purifier than heals addictions and mental issues if it doesn't seem overtly magical to you?

>>97491732
>>97491389
>>97491744
Instead of a water purification plant, it should be something like a magical spring from which flows pure healing water. It was created with an ancient hero struck down a monster with such a mighty, sanctify blow that his blessed power remains deep within the Earth ages. However without his essence, or perhaps due to a fisher king kind of scenario, it's blessed waters have begun to foul and rot. Only the true king can restore it. Boom, simple.

>>97491756
Damn I had a few typos in there. Goes to show I shouldn't do this at work.

>>97491756
It could be like that. Doesn't have to, though. I think that fairly banal uses of magic with the First Age just fine and underline the sheer amount of power and respurces available for various purposes back then. A magical spring with healing water can be a First Age thing, but it could just as well be an Age of Sorrows thing. A magical water purification plant where water, I dunno, flows through filters made of magical material or has the impurities eaten out of it by sesseljae or something, on the other hand, is more distinctly a First Age thing.

>>97491777
Also >>97491765 yeah, I shouldn't do this at work either, as I seem to have made some typos of my own.

>>97491756
>Instead of a water purification plant, it should be something like a magical spring from which flows pure healing water.
See the thing is, with the way the setting sometimes gets described and one of the things people have a problem with in 2e, we would still call that just a water plant, or a water treatment plant. Even if it's a tree that filters groundwater and rains from the leaves, we'd just call that an irrigation plant, and if there's a prayer wheel that spins thanks to the burning souls of the slaves used to create it, if they hooked it up to a pulley system we'd still just call it an engine. The shape of the thing often goes undescribed over it's function when it's not in focus, and then when people think of it they fill in the gaps with whatever they expect to see. With the names being so functional, often they expect to see something highly functional and utilitarian, and in most peoples minds that means industrial/modern/magitech.

>>97489608
This post was written by someone who never set foot outside his upscale neighborhood.

>>97491796
I think it's incredibly important to not abstract things into these utilitarian names. If you want your world to feel fantastic, you need to keep things fantastic sounding.

>>97491817
We also do it with barbarians. A lot of the places they've introduced in the Threshold in 3e absolutely would have fit in 2e... they just would've been called barbarians. Once you remember that Haltans fall under that bracket it gets pretty clear that the world was always vibrant if you wanted it to be.

>>97491853
Yeah sorry, it should just be like that all the time. I'm going to nitpick like crazy about it because it sucks.

>>97491817
The ppint kind of is that these things were fairly mundane in the First Age. They absolutely should have fairly utilitarian names to reflect that. First Age wonders should have fancy, poetic names in the Age of Sorrows, sure, but the Life-Giving Tree of Eternally Flowing Waters originally being just water purification plant no. 107 or something is completely fine and setting-appropriate.

>>97491853
That's because "barbarian" is racist now.
Ignore the fact in the modern day "barbarian" is used almost exclusively to refer to white people while non-whites are usually referred to as savages.

>>97492149
I will ignore that fact, thanks

>terminology.
It gets really funny with how old some words are.

>The word "machine"originated from the Latinmāchina("device, engine, contrivance, trick") and the Greekmēkhanḗ(or Doricmākhănā́), meaning "contrivance" or "artificial means" to achieve a task. It dates back to the mid-1500s in English, originating from roots implying power or ability, specifically the Proto-Indo Europeanmagh-.

>>97492062
>purification plant no. 107
I think it should have that name in the First Age too
Have it be a big ass crystal tree with rotted away prayers strips on every branch, with taps set seemingly randomly into the trunk, from which the saps flow into the floor which is inlaid with complex channels that purify the sap into water somehow and then bring it to the city

>>97492893
>I think it should have that name in the First Age too
rather I think it should have Life-Giving Tree of Eternally Flowing Waters in the First Age too

What Exalted splat is the best at being a waifu?

>>97493285
Infernals, unless you're into robots then Alchemicals

>>97493290
Explain your reasoning.

>>97493504
Infernals > Lunars on shapeshifting and everything else (unless you're a furry). Alchemicals are fucking machines, if you're into that sort of thing - https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1770140110042305.webm" target="_blank">https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1770140110042305.webm

>>97493631
Alchemicals can't get pregnant by the way. If rawing a girl is your thing, you can't go wrong with an Alchemical waifu.

>>97494171
>Fertile Benediction (15m; Simple; Instant; Eclipse; Essence 3): Afondha blesses the supplicant with fertility, ensuring conception with their next informed and willing partner regardless of whether they could normally conceive a child with that partner, as long as at least one of them has a womb.

Charm doesn't say functioning womb, so as long as you build a spare section into your alchemical she can give you all the cyborg children you want

Henlo, new player to essence. If I'm wanting to play someone who's pretty tough, is starting with fortitude 4 and force 3 decent or should it be vice versa? I am playing a casteless lunar for what it's worth, and looking to use white reaper style.

>>97494559
Force 5, Close combat 5, always max out the rolls you'll be making the most often as that's how the enemies will be built

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>>97494622
How do I start with force 5?

>>97494182
GENTLEMEN! I have just made love to this machine! And in retrospect, I ask, WHY?

>>97494634
You don't, that anon is simply offering advice without knowing how the game works.

>>97494559
Vice versa, Fortitude 3 / Force 4, would be what I would consider normal for a tough character.

Fortitude 3 is the breakpoint you would usually care about if you wanted a tough character, that's where you get the extra point of Soak. Fortitude has a bit of second child disease because of that - it's the attribute that's going to be the most difficult to actually leverage towards doing things, in play, because it's mostly passive, but +1 Soak is an important benefit so it usually comes second. Going further with Fortitude is pretty much exclusively for characters that want to be able to tough out phenomena, things like fatigue and harsh conditions, rather than for characters who want to be more difficult to damage in combat.

>>97493290
Lunars are the only splat to have ever had explicit waifu mechanics. The infernal glaze must stop

>>97497079
>Lunars are the only splat to have ever had explicit waifu mechanics
Sidereals and Dragonblooded definitely have waifu mechanics. I feel like half of the Joybringer charms are waifu charms (Lover's Oath, for example), and astrological houses like the Pillar are just that. Dragonblooded have breeding mechanics.

>>97497128
I think you may be deeply confused about what waifu means

>>97497079
>>97497128
>>97497201
Before this becomes a big thing, I think the point is that only Lunars have specifically had being joined to another with a significant (often romantic) bond as a major part of both their story and mechanics. Others can pick up charms that might make them better at relationships or be able to make an oath, but it has always been an intrinsic part of what makes Lunars

It's definitely lunars. They have tried to dilute it, God knows why because it was one of the few distinctive things they actually fucking had, but you can just be Sailor Moon without having to change anything. Reincarnated Moon princess falls in love with her reincarnated fiance all over again, and that's just a plot they give you off the rip for signing up. Sure, you can argue that you can do that with anybody, but it has been a highlight of the Exalt type

Infernals are best waifu because they can summon plenty of demons to help out. Lunars are best husbando because they can have horse cock or dog dick. This is simple shit people. You should see the toys women keep, it's fucking insane.

Raksi would be best canon waifu though.
Not sure for husbando.

>>97497526
I'm going to restate that I'm not sure what definition you're going off of.

>>97497526
What does that have to do with waifu potential?

>>97497079
>The infernal glaze must stop
It's not glaze if its true. You've had three editions to prove it wrong and failed.

>>97497805
How do I prove an opinion wrong? Personally I think they're the worst Exalts, barring the weird nu-exalted. In first edition they didn't meaningfully exist, in second edition they were tied to the worst source book imaginable. Even inside the ultra positive echo chambers the splat was criticized for shifting the focus to high level play (Devil Tigers and when the exalt finally had enough purchases to "come online") and the implications of being able to rewrite Yozi being detrimental to the setting. Essence is still absolutely laughable on how they tried to make the splat about social justice and 3e proper doesn't dial that back all that much. You're free to like them in spite of all this, but they do nothing for me because of this and more.

>>97497805
I think it's glaze, to be honest. At least in my experience in 2e, they were weaker in actual play than Solars and sometimes got out done by Lunars. People always say they ooze with cool flavor but I honestly don't think they're that cool. A lot of their shit is pretty cringe. Kind of feel like it's one of those things where if it's your vibe you love it, but if you are not the specific person this appeals to then it's absolute shit.

>>97497873
>in second edition they were tied to the worst source book imaginable
Schizo anon is that you? Infernals aren't Lunars as much as some people want them to be.

>>97497932
? RoTSE is the worst Exalted book by far. It was so bad that people still complain about it, and it was absolutely built on Infernals. I get that people want to memory hole it or say it doesn't count but come on. We can be honest here.

>>97497294
I completely agree. I would have expanded on it. Heck, I would have introduced more kinds of bonds and have it so Lunars had Charms to take advantage of it. The bond with your Solar is consistent between lifetimes, but Sidereals can set up an Avatar-style teaching system for martial arts with their students and Lunars can boost Dragon-Blooded by being a part of a Sworn Brotherhood because of the Luna-Gaia thing. As far as Dragon-Blooded Solar stuff goes, this was already touched on in 2e with a Charm that let a Solar lend Tiger-Warrior Training to a Dragon-Blooded subordinate (I would allow this to happen with Lunars too). I'd probably allow Solars to do that sort of thing with Dragon-Blooded or a Lunar/Sidereal they have a bond with.

>>97497945
I would have given Lunars a constant power boost for affirming their bond. Really boost them up to kind of fulfill that idea that they were the near equals of Solars, but then explain why they lost the miracle after the Usurpation

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>>97497995
>Lunars
>near equals of Solars

>>97498013
Bro I know, I'm just repeating the fluff they keep handing out (and isn't true)

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Despite Lunars being the designated waifu splat, they are too poorly designed to be so, being easily out-waifued even by the Dragon-Blooded.

>>97498013
Lunars never recovered from their 1e depiction, to this day, the devs are trying to make it work.

>>97498163
Literally all the devs have to do is be like "Okay, look, this isn't working. Here's your anime catgirl waifu" and everyone would clap

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>>97498552

New Lunar idea:

Lunars are the product of Solars attempting to reverse engineer Celestial Exaltation and succeeding. There were no Primordial War Lunars (what would they even do? it's not like Lunars can shapeshift into daeva or behemoths or anything on their level). Lunars are tied to Solar Exaltations because the Solars made them that way, and empowered the Lunar Exaltations directly as their patrons.

Their numbers waver from as many as there are Solar Exaltations to slightly above that because while making one wasn't too taxing on the Solar Exaltation, making two+ had exponentially escalating negative effects. Lunars reincarnate when their Solar patron does and in roughly the same area, which is why they've had relatively little impact since the Solars were sealed - many went down in the Usurpation and haven't reincarnated, and for the rest it's scary to risk not only your life but your whole chain of being, the only chance you'll ever have to overcome the Betrayers.

>>97498675
Hrm nyo.

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>>97498675
>Lunars are Solar exigents
>Silver Pact.jpg

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>>97498580
Sorry anon, but 3e is below the curve and culturally irrelevant

>>97498840
Breeding king and accidental pregnancy would seem to be opposites, no?

>>97498847
It's not hard to contrive a scenario where they coexist. Protection failing because they're so "potent" is the easiest way.

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>>97498847
Not really, specially with interspecies.

>Hoarded by the Dragon (Elder Lunar).
>Yalll this one was just what I needed to get me out of my reading slump!

>Sub-genre: paranormal romance/urban fantasy

>Pairing: M/F, dragon shifter/witch, immortal/mortal

>Tropes/themes: surprise pregnancy, paranormal pregnancy, forced proximity, protective/possessive MMC, hurt/comfort, grovel (but more on the angsty side), loss of a former (solar) mate and child

>Spice: 5/5 because knotting, breeding kink, heat, and two penis’ with actual dp (unlike * cough * Katee Robert)

Rating: 4/5 (would have loved some more grovel and detail to the labour/birth scene)

>A witch Twilight (FMC) sneaks into the Dragon’s (MMC) hoard to steal an object as a favour to her former mentor. She’s stopped by the Dragon who’s in heat (limit break). She makes a deal to help him through his heat in exchange for the object. One passionate night leads to a surprise pregnancy. Leaving FMC no choice but to rely on the MMC to help keep her warm (literally) throughout the pregnancy and keep her safe from his enemies.

>I’m usually not a fan of loss of wife/partner/mate and child, but it was done well imo. MMC is reluctant to accept that he could mate bond again, but still cares for the FMC - for the most part, but grovels for his mistake.
It is surprising how well it fits exalted; I'd this tge secret of fixing Lunars? Turning them into a bunch shadow daddies and dummy mommies?

>>97498675
Nah. Honestly the issue goes all the way back to Lunars being Werewolf derived, and thus shapeshifters first and everything else second. Change it up:
At the core of Lunar identity is the concept of the mirror, as the moon is a giant mirror to the sun. This extends across them in many ways. First is the obvious shapeshifting by mirroring the image of another creature, though this is more explicitly magical construct than simply having protean flesh. Next is "smoke and mirrors" where the Lunar employs illusion and and tricks of the light to achieve results; with the power of essence these images can be as functional as the real thing. Finally is the obvious ability of reflection itself, writ into a greater and more magical sense. Lunars can take the power of others and redirect it in some way, like sending it back at the origin or cloaking themselves in it. Because of the intrinsic nature of the sun and moon, Lunars have a lot of innate abilities to power up through working with their specific bonded Solar (or maybe any Solar). As a splat, they'd be the one best suited for playing with another Exalt type (Solars) because their power level would naturally adjust up to be on par.

>>97499026
>Nah. Honestly the issue goes all the way back to Lunars being Werewolf derived, and thus shapeshifters first and everything else second. Change it up:
It is noticeable in 1e, how Lunars were a nation of terrestrial exalted forced in the mold of a celestial exalted type.
And Grabowski did everything in his power to keep Lunars in their tribe.

Having the Lunars mostly be sealed in the Jade Prison with the Solars neatly solves the issue of "what the fuck were 300 Celestial Exalted doing for 1000's of years"
Having less than a dozen Lunars running around is still dangerous, but something that an assload of DB's and Sidereals could keep in keep in check

>>97499045
But then how did the Lunars become the monsters at the edge of the map that terrorize the corrupted masses

>>97499049
The joke is that the chimera corruption only exists to justify Lunars having tribal tattoos.
Or you can replace them with Aurorals/Hearteaters, who fulfill the "tragic fallen exalted'" niche better than Lunars ever did.

Mirror lunars sounds much more promising than a lot of the other ideas.

Just have more Lunar Dominions and more satrapies that the Realm lost to Lunar invaders/rebels.

I swear to god, everyone in this thread has the stupidest ideas on how to reinvent the Lunars.

>>97499026
>as the moon is a giant mirror to the sun.
but it isn't in Exalted right?, I think the moon actually gives its own light off

>>97499085
The problems with Lunars are conceptual and on the most basic level. Territories are utterly irrelevant to their basic issues.

>>97499085
>Just have more Lunar Dominions and more satrapies that the Realm lost to Lunar invaders/rebels.
If the Lunars were able to take out the Wyld Hunt, why haven't they stomped the Realm in the last thousand years?

>>97499085
Or how about no?

The lunars can go fuck themselves.

>>97499087
Obviously if I'm changing the lore of Lunars, I'm probably also slightly changing the lore of Luna. I'd axe the gaia connection and reconfigure Luna to be a much more explicit companion and counterpart to Sol, including soaking up his excess light or something.

>>97499090
>If the Wyld Hunt was able to take on Lunars, why haven't they stomped Mahalanka or Luthe in the last thousand years.
Your argument is a non-sequitur. The Wyld Hunt being a threat to individual, young or unsupported Lunars doesn't mean that Lunars cannot be a threat to the Realm in other circumstances, and Lunars being able to conquer Satrapies doesn't mean that Lunars automatically would be able to crush the Realm. They were in conflict for centuries, and the balance of power was never stable for too long.

>>97499133
I think this is correct but I don't think adding Lunar dominions will fix what's inherently wrong with Lunars as a splat.

>>97499143
The main thing wrong with Lunars is that they are lame. They cool shit so that they feel strong and relevant in the setting. That fixes 90% of their problems. Everything else is people overthinking old lore.

>>97499159
To be clear, I don't give a fuck about them having dominions or not, because the splat is not inherently cool. Solars are cool and they have nothing. Lunars could have everything and still be lame. What's lame about them is being Werewolf derivatives with nonsense lore

>>97499165
>nonsense lore
you can actually split up 1e Lunars into 2 or 3 more functional splats; the werewolf port, the fallen exalted and the Solar's mates.
Ironically enough only the last one requires them to be celestial exalted

>>97499133
>If the Wyld Hunt was able to take on Lunars, why haven't they stomped Mahalanka or Luthe in the last thousand years.
>Luthe
They don't know it's there.

>Mahalanka
The forbidden city is isolated as all hell, stuck in a jungle, most scholars don't know where it is, is entirely apemen and wyld barbarians, and Raksi forbids all interaction with the rest of Creation. Mahalanka is also tiny with it's population of >75k, and it's demographics are pretty hostile to spies with ~35k wyld barbarians and ~20k apemen.

Mahalanka might be a big deal to the Lunars, but it's also small and insular enough that the Realm probably either doesn't know it exists or thinks it's just a barbarian city of no import. If they know there's a god-queen there's little reason they'd know it's a Lunar specifically instead of another god or raksha playing king.

The fact of the matter is that the world of Exalted makes a hell of a lot more sense if the Wyld Hunt has been competent and powerful enough to handle the Silver Pact for centuries. Yes, you want Lunars to matter more and Dragonblood are poopy stinky heads, but also no, because if they couldn't smash anything from the Realm to the Bordermarches then a bunch of basic assumptions stop making sense.

>>97499184
Yeah, they're nonsense.

>>97499191
>Mahalanka is also tiny with it's population of >75k, and it's demographics are pretty hostile to spies with ~35k wyld barbarians and ~20k apemen.
This gave me a really funny mental figure.

>Raksi: Thanks for my barbarian genius Mahalanka reached 75000 inhabitants!!!
>Raksi: and you, silver python, what fruits your attempt of c*ivilization bore?
>Silver Python: oh, huh... we didn't count, but the capital has around 1 million or 2 inhabitants.

>>97499165
>solars are cool

No.

Lunars are a pretty great splat. Shapeshifting is cool, animal and moon powers are cool. Hunting, dominions, tattoos, quicksilver, being an outcaste. I honestly have no idea how you three people have so much trouble thinking of ways to roleplay them. I can't really say much about them because it's not really my thing but if you want to be a shapeshifter/furry/witch/a moon-mate then there you go.

Mechanically, I really like how they can apply there excellency to attribute roles. It's just if you're not interested in moon powers, shapeshifting, being a divine monster, being the thing, having tattoos, or the tons of other things you can do as a Lunar then there isn't much reason to play one. Which... duh, you know?

All of this is moist though because Infernals are the best splat in literally every edition they show up in. Who cares about turning into a T-Rex when I'm a demon god. No offense to you beast-boy lovers out there.

>>97499239
>Shapeshifting is cool
maybe on planet retard

>>97499239
Everybody can get tattoos, and Lunars don't really have moon powers; the apocryphal Dream-Souled are somehow more lunar than the Lunars themselves ever were.

>>97499241
Well, that's like, your opinion man.

>>97499254
mine and everyone else's, including the devs

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We're never getting an edition where Solars are not just conceptually cool, but also mechanically and lorewise as well, are we?

>>97499255
I have the oddest feeling that this isn't true and plenty of people think shapeshifting is cool. I also think whatever the devs have to say about lunars would also be more complex then you're making it seem, if it's even true.

It's weird because I'm not sure what sort of bubble 4chan is but Lunars are also a pretty popular splat. I'm pretty sure they've always been a fav favorite since 1e. Never perfect but well, nothing is.

None of this matters though because Infernals are best.

>>97499252
At this point we'd just be arguing what counts as a moon power and that feels like a huge waste of time. More sailor moon stuff in general for Exalted sounds great though.

>>97499275
>I have the oddest feeling that this isn't true and plenty of people think shapeshifting is cool.
lol

>>97499268
2e and 3e are both plenty playable, you just have to not be a miserable fuck. Give them a try, run a few games with either system. Try to avoid mashing in as much homebrew as humanly possible. I personally have a lot of neat and fun moments with this game so I don't know what's going on with the other anons. Something really gay probably.

>>97499279
>If we pretend no one wants to be lunars, then no one will want to be lunars!

okay anon.

>>97499298
>pretend

>>97499255
The devs are aware about the issue, they solution was to turn Lunars into "Barbarians as culture Heroes" as seen in the essence player guide.

>>97499275
>At this point we'd just be arguing what counts as a moon power and that feels like a huge waste of time. More sailor moon stuff in general for Exalted sounds great though
Holden admitted that that Lunars aren't even based on Luna.

I wish people would stop comparing Lunars with WoD Werewolves because Werewolves are WAY cooler than them.

>>97499310
The cool aspect of Apocalypse, accidentally went to the Dragon-Blooded instead.

>>97499310
WoD Werewolves are pretty cool. Dorky, but cool. Probably second or third best splat for WoD, old or new. Them being retarded holds it back but it's WoD, everyone is literally retarded.

>>97499268
Golden Calibration makes Solars as good as 3e allows

I like lunars and I like shape shifting

>>97499026
I don't completely disagree. While I think shape-shifting should still be one of the things Lunars should do, I've thought for a while now they should be good at support, not only in reflecting others, but increasing their capabilities too (moon controls the tides).

>>97499045
>>97499049
I'd make it since Solars were the priority and Lunar Exaltations are "slippery," only about a third of them were sealed away. On top of that, a lot of Lunars could have straight up left Creation and are returning because they instinctively sensed the release of the Solars and other Lunars. This is mostly to help differentiate them from Solars. Solars are still the big shiny guys who have returned from the past, with Dragon-Blooded and Sidereals only realizing later that there are a lot more Lunars around.

>>97499075
Steal a bunch of Holden's Heart-Eater stuff and give it to Lunars. As for the tattoos, I'd make it so Lunars always had shifting Castes and the tattoos were created back near the beginning of the Primordial War.

>>97499085
Agreed

>>97499090
For me, I'd have it so they don't hold onto conquered satrapies.They either do sabotage to cause rebellions, or lay waste to them. They have trouble holding it and Dragon-Blooded have trouble striking at the Lunars because their civilizations are on the edge of Creation, creating logistical issues fo the both of them.

>>97499143
It'll help, because it will give them more of a presence.

Finally, on top of all this, I'd have it so Lunars have been largely responsible for keeping the Deathlords in check outside of the reach of the Realm. Deathlord immortality would only sort of be a thing though. You could get rid of a Deathlord permanently in three different ways, only one of which is viable for Lunars: Forge them into soulsteel, have them be killed by the Solar who inherited their Exaltation, or through the Abyssal perma-killing Charm.

>>97499279
Shape-shifting is cool. They should just be more than shape-shifters.

>>97499045
Just let them do things for those thousands of years instead. Like this anon suggests, >>97499085 for instance.

>>97499087
That's my recollection, though to be honest I wouldn't swear on my memory on this.

>>97499089
Thay's arguable. What's less arguable is that Lunars having had surprisingly little obvious impact on Creation for Celestial Exalts who've been around all along is a problem.

>>97499090
That's like asking why Parthians didn't conquer Rome despite being able to defeat Crassus. If Lunars were peer-level opposition to the Realm, the logical consequence of that would be that both sides sometimes win and sometimes lose when they clash.

>>97499255
Shapeshifting's pretty common power in fiction because plenty of people do actually find it cool, anon.

>>97499363
Me too, anon. I think the weirdest thing about Lunar discussions here isn't that some people really dislike them, but that some of these people seem to think that their personal dislike means that Lunars should be rewritten into something completely different while ignoring objections of people who kind of like Lunars as they are, or at least some things about them.

>>97499640
If we were to listen to people who kind of like them as they are, Lunars wouldn't have social charms, and with only "activate DBT" as a viable build.

>>97499640
>Thay's arguable. What's less arguable is that Lunars having had surprisingly little obvious impact on Creation for Celestial Exalts who've been around all along is a problem.
In the early Shogunate, it could be justified by the DR'S and Sidereals being on top of their game, and having lots of fancy First Age tech and infrastructure to rely on. In the later Shogunate it's less justified. Directly after the Contagion and Balor Crusade, it coukd be argued the Lunars got heavily reduced and needed to rebuild their own numbers, but the Realm is nowhere near as strong as the Shogunate was. The Realm should have ventured deeper into the Threshold and found dozens of hostile nations loyal to the Lunars by the time they got there.

>>97499972
I agree on them being a lot less viable, but they shouldn't be completely impotent. One thing I like about 3e Lunars is how the Shogunate once collapsed into one of its civil wars because it turned out a Lunar managed to con their way into the position. Personally, I'd make it so during the Shogunate, a lot of Lunars moved to the Underworld so they could continue living in the remnant of the First Age. The Deathlords were a minor power up until the Great Contagion, where the massive influx of ghosts and the need to defend Creation from the Balorian Crusade destroyed most of the Lunar civilizations. The Black Lion is a poor substitute for his Divine Lunar Presence, so I'd make it so his mainline equivelant is the despot of one of the few remaining major Lunar kingdoms in the Underworld. Also, he collaborated with the Sidereals and Dragon-Blooded during the Usurpation (to reflect how he slew his Solar mate in Heaven's Reach) because of his desire for political power and jealousy of the Solar dominated Deliberative, but him and the handful of Lunars who joined in the plot were stabbed in the back. The 3e Shadow Deliberative would be changed into Lunars being in charge of the Underworld in the First Age because the Solars didn't want to do it and they needed a way to distract the Lunars who wanted political power.

>>97499239
Your opinion is bollocks because of your infernalfagging

>>97499640
>Me too, anon. I think the weirdest thing about Lunar discussions here isn't that some people really dislike them, but that some of these people seem to think that their personal dislike means that Lunars should be rewritten into something completely different while ignoring objections of people who kind of like Lunars as they are, or at least some things about them.
I feel like this is an incredibly disingenuous take to have about people trying to address Lunars and their problems. The idea posted in this thread is is purely additive to how Lunars would work, and so have a lot of other ideas. I know for a fact most of the people ITT who are being so adamant about not changing things are not even Lunar players primarily so I seriously don't get the objection to being transformative with their concept

Lunars doing fuck all is a secondary problem to the splat being conceptually pigeon holed into """"culture heroes"""", which if you've ever actually tried to play Lunars at a table you'd realize it's the most do-nothing descriptor for what the splat should be. Every Exalt is a hero to their own culture, Solars and Outcaste DBs are capable of doing the barbarian aesthetic without sacrificing any of their other themes while your ass has a whole lot of nothing to show for it. On their charms and abilities, they've historically been quite uninteresting. Weaker Solar charms with a sprinkling of garou stuff here and there. Most of the time the optimal way to use shapeshifting is to modify your dicepool, but that's just an Excellency with extra steps. When you DO try to use shapeshifting outside of the context of regular dice stuff, it's going to be being the fly on the wall 9 out of 10 times. Which is, I guess, alright if you are not playing with a stealth focused character and your ST never has the otherwise preternaturally aware opposition scrutinize your animal form. Even if you get the nice Homebrew treatment and you can copy Spirit charms and such, that's mostly a Band-Aid on your own stuff just not being fun. Yapping about which NPC or whatever did something in the past is not going to undo these flaws and neither is plugging your ears and saying "I think shapeshifting is cool" when I can tell your asses don't play the splat

>>97500485
A group of enterprising autists went and fixed it, but the most vocally retarded portion of the fanbase (which sadly is the portion of the fanbase that has the devs' ears) called it "muh silver wizard shoggoths" and suppressed it out of petty spite.

>>97500306
Some weirdos have been whining and crying about the same thing for almost twenty years due to severe mental illness. That's bigly different then people 'ignoring the problems with lunars'. Objectively, people like lunars and shapeshifters. I don't get how that's so hard to understand. You can be a giant animal. Or a small animal. Or an underwater animal. Or, depending on the edition, The Thing. Or a Witch.

There are so many things to work with here, that people DO work with and play games with. You can literally see people playing as lunars and having fun. This isn't some conspiracy, this is just people playing a game as a furry.

>>97500485
>neither is plugging your ears and saying "I think shapeshifting is cool" when I can tell your asses don't play the splat

The irony and projection is insane. I'm glad that you play Lunar's though, you are among plenty of other people who also do so.

>>97499363
I like Infernals.

>>97500963
It makes more sense once you realize that ink monkeys were 1e!Lunars defenders.

>>97500963
I assume you are talking about Terrifying Argent Witches. I've never read it, so can someone give me an overview of what it actually changed about Lunars?

>>97501297
Out of head, correct me if I am wrong.
>Lunars always had 3 castes.
>tattoos are a built-in thing.
>no corrupted fail state.
>Raksi isn't a baby eater.
>Attributes are closer to Sidereal design paradigm for their charms.
>Proto protean key word to deal with Eclipse charm share.

>>97501297
Do you have a link for people who want to read it? I remember it being pretty cool and rather well written.

>>97483277
Weekly Update
>Redlines
Alchemicals Companion: Avatars of Brass and Shadow
The Alchemicals stretch goal book is all together and getting redlined!
>Final Draft
For the March Lords
One of the two novellas from the Exalted Essence Players’ Guide campaign is now in final drafts!
>Layout
Alchemicals
>Press
Exigents – Manufacturing done, printer prepping to send books to fulfillment shippers
couple of early projects have moved from >>97484731, though the later ones appear stuck
additional reminder. for those who ordered hardcover exigents and stuff with it, payments get processed in a week on the 11th. i know taxes are soon for many of you so if you can't swing it get your ducks in order

>>97500963
TAW is just Infernals.

>>97501944
It would explain why it's good, seeing as how infernals are the best splat in exalted.

>>97501952
Okay dude, if you're going to be a witless fanboy what the fuck is the point in talking to you? I disagree with your viewpoint and I don't want their design

>>97501960
I'm not even sure what you're upset about desu. Lunars are neat. TAW was a fun homebrew. These are just facts.

>>97501968
Those are opinions, not facts. I don't like Infernals and how they operate. I don't like TAW because it's just an Infernals expansion.

>>97501944
TAW is closer to Alchemicals or Sidereals in design, 3e writers even copied some of it for 3e

>>97502016
I'm going to ask you a question. With how I seem to be reacting to it, do you really think trying to slice the influences that thin matters to me?

>TAW was a mistake, and Infernals ruined Lunars.
>Actually, the devs aped it for 3e Lunars, and TAW is more influenced by Sidereals and Alchemicals.
>Do I look like I care for facts or logic?
Numinous.

>>97502088
Don't be a little bitch.

>pointing out my logic's problems, means that you are a little bitch.
Numinously weird.

>>97502088
>>97502128
>>97502156
Here I'm going to break it down because you are clearly autistic and do not understand how other people have different opinions and feelings than you. Something that happens far too often in this thread is that somebody will say they don't like something, and they will give whatever personal reasoning they had for that opinion. And then, just like now, someone will say you can't have that opinion for some reason that is entirely irrelevant to why they may have those feelings.
In this case, Anon is saying he doesn't like the TAW fanbrew because he feels it's too similar to Infernals and he doesn't like how both of them operate. Stating it has stuff in common with other splats doesn't mean anything in regards to their lack of enjoyment. The flaw in logic is thinking this would be relevant to their opinions

>>97502171
In this case, it is less "opinions based on feelings" and more "countering slander and fake news".

TAW is based on Alchemicals charm loadout design adapted for Lunars, with the attributes being thematically configured similar to how Sidereals' abilities are with the constellations' themes.

>>97502195
This is why people call you autistic. That doesn't have any significance when the complaint is that their design paradigm is not something they enjoy, whatever the parallels or influences may be. You're speaking to a completely different topic

>>97502209
Sorry anon, you can ad homien to your heart content, but I will not let that anon keep spreading feeling based misinformations.

>>97502242
Nobody cares dude. It's not an ad hominem because you are so fixated on this detail and being "right" that you're not engaging with the actual topic. Literally missing the forest for the trees. The worst part about it is you could have stopped several posts ago and just pretended to be a new person actually discussing the meat of the matter. But this, frankly, irrelevant quibble is doing so much psychic damage to you that you can't even begin to talk about it.

>>97502264
>Statement: TAW ruined Lunars, by turning them into silver Infernals.
>Counter statement: Actually they turned them into silver Alchemicals.
>Ad homien 1: you are a little bitch, I don't care for logic, I only care for my own feelings!!!
>Ad homien 2: you are autistic for not letting feeling based misinformations vê spread out!!!
>Nobody cares bro.
Numinous.

Lunars were a mistake, they should have been removed from the setting by 2e; Exalted was already popular enough to stand on its own legs without the help of the garou's fanbase.


>>97502264
>The worst part about it is you could have stopped several posts ago and just pretended to be a new person actually discussing the meat of the matter.
Ironically enough, he was the only one who actually argumentted his points.
>>97502301
You are discussing with malignant narcissists, a thing of note, is that no anti-infernalfag is neurotypical.

>>97502301
I'm not sure how many ways I can reformulate this. The topic is the dislike of TAW and its design. The attribution of those design elements isn't. You can absolutely be right about the attribution but it doesn't matter to the topic. How much more simple can I make it?

>>97502316
Bait used to be better

>>97502328
>The topic is about TAW and its design.
>So stop talking about its design.
A truly numinous moment.

>>97502351
The topic is the dislike of the design, not the history thereof

>>97502373
Nah.

>The topic is the dislike of TAW and its design.
>and its design.
Only retard anon talked about TAW design, the others went "it is Infernal and bad", without explaining why it is bad or Infernal-like.

TAW link
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P2AuLM6D1Et9mWQVJp-ugWujFJhTi2VwQBtOazOW1Mg/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.5jh5rtmc77po

>>97502405
Sorry but that's just not factual. The entire thing led off with complaints about playing Lunars, then somebody brought up TAW and then the response was that they didn't like it and it felt too much like infernals to them. Nobody has been arguing the design origins of TAW except some loser trying to "um actually" it's always been about not liking Lunar as written and not liking TAW.

>>97502351
nta but are you having a giggle or something? how do you not know the difference between talking about whether or not you like something and why vs making sure you got your references right?

>>97502436
Autistic anon, the conversation changed with time, you would understand it if you were neurotypical.

>>97502462
Too many years argumentting in exalted threads and forums, I saw too many people going full Getimians talking how their feelings define the truth of the setting, and trying to gaslight others into believing the same things even if it was a blatant lie.

>>97502467
No it didn't. The first emergence of talking about alchemicals and sidereals in relation to this was immediately followed up by the guy (who clearly doesn't like it) saying the influences were not something he cared about. Since then, I have been trying to tell you that it's about that opinion and not anything else

>>97502479
okay but that's not what's going on here. this really is about a dude's opinion.

>>97502420
Oh, thanks for it.

>Sorcery.
Heh, it also has a similar idea that I had for Lunars as red mages, combining Sorcery and Necromancy.

>>97497942

It wasn't that bad. It was the logical conclusion of everything that came before. It had some good ideas in it.

>>97502518
It was absolutely atrocious

>>97502518
People kind of forgot about the 2e metaplot, that was running through the comics and some texts.

Putting more focus on the fact that Lunars can be skinwalkers would be neat.

>>97502546
We wanted to forget it because outside the weird Forum people nobody liked it.

>>97502479
Holy fuck, man. Of course people's feelings matter a lot in a goddamn game. How the fuck is that gaslighting?

>>97502518
>It wasn't that bad. It was the logical conclusion of everything that came before. It had some good ideas in it.
No. It was bad because it had the gall to taint good ideas and obvious conclusions with it's own terrible execution. Having good ideas is not a good thing in and of itself, and in the case of RotSE every 'good idea' it had was bad for the franchise because they were killed in the crib by association with that dumpster fire.

>>97502677
He's right. People's feelings don't matter to the facts of the setting. They matter in play, but they do not change canon. Some absolute fuckers recently have been arguing as if their feelings did take precedence over canon in discussions about the setting, when in fact your feelings are irrelevant when discussing what is canon or not.

>>97502683
Actually that's wrong. This is not a comic book universe, the setting of Exalted (and any role-playing game) is provided at the convenience of the people playing the game so that they have to come up with less themselves. Especially in the context of these threads, where people will often vent their frustrations about aspects of the setting, it is extremely valid for them to strike down canon and replace it with their own. The world of exalted is not a factual universe, it's not a real thing you need to acknowledge unless you want to.

>>97502683
Not even Wahammerfaga are this dogmatic. They frequently argue for and against portions of the setting and will gleefully tear stuff out that they don't like and insist that they are correct. And you know what, they are.

>>97502705
You can argue that you don't like certain facts of the setting, and you can argue that certain parts of the setting are lame and shouldn't be there, but no argument based purely on what you think should be there beats a single word from the actual books when it comes to what is actually there. This is the hard line between canon and headcanon.

>>97502695
>This is not a comic book universe, the setting of Exalted (and any role-playing game) is provided at the convenience of the people playing the game so that they have to come up with less themselves.
Literally irrelevant.

>Especially in the context of these threads, where people will often vent their frustrations about aspects of the setting, it is extremely valid for them to strike down canon and replace it with their own.
Exactly my point - it's entirely reasonable for people to strike down canon for their own games... but CANON is not what is happening in your games. Regardless of your headcanon, your houserules, what you've struck down or not, none of it is canon. You are a twit rambling on an anonymous imageboard. Nothing you say changes what's in the setting everybody uses.

>The world of exalted is not a factual universe, it's not a real thing you need to acknowledge unless you want to.
You're arguing that the books aren't real so I'm going to just call you delusional and move on now.

>>97502743
This isn't even unique to warhammer, it's common across the virtually every single rpg that people will present their own version of the setting and talk about that, ignoring what was in the books if it doesn't suit them. I've literally only seen this kind of attitude, where we have to strictly talk about what was written by devs, here in this thread.

>>97502420
Thank you.
>>97502479
It's a game. All that really matters are our feelings while playing it. Plus, desu, the whole "facts over feeling" stuff just outs you as an autist. Worse, it outs you as an OLD autist.
>>97502518
I didn't like it because infernals basically didn't exist. It's weird to me how important Akuma were in a book where you would THINK all the exalted types would be important. Seeing as how it was the end of the line.

I don't hate it. I just don't like it. It gave us some cool names and ideas which is all I really ask for. Just, my god, the dumb parts were dumb and it felt like it was written before infernals even existed.
>>97502677
It's an ancient meme from an ancient time used by really weird autistic people. I wouldn't think so hard on it.

Normal children learn pretty early on that they don't need to word their thoughts in a way that makes everyone hate them.

Anyways, and let's be real - the worst content written for exalted, far worse then rotse, was all the ink monkies high essence wank. By miles. Along with all the broken sidereal shit that got written back in the day.

>>97502743
You were wrong from the beginning when you think that there's a priority of importance in pretend game settings. What I say absolutely trumps "canon" every time because I'm the end user of a game.

>>97502757
>we have to strictly talk about what was written by devs
Not what was claimed, get your strawman in check anon. What was claimed is that when you're talking about what happens in the actual, real setting, the shared setting we all care about, not your homebrew or houseruled setting, the actual things in the books, your opinions don't change what's there. When your claims that are presented as true and not stuff you made up because they sound nice or are what you use at your table are actually factually provably false, you don't get to claim that it was just your opinion mannnnn.

You can discuss your fanfiction all you like, and we regularly do, but we're also pretty goddamn clear that what we're talking about isn't canon and we don't try to pretend differently. We make it clear by saying things like 'Here's an idea...' or 'Wouldn't it be cool if'. >>97498675 This anon does it even if their idea is trash and people engage with it properly. That is common and frankly assumed by most reasonable people, regardless of what fandom you're in.

>>97502789
>the shared setting we all care about
Nobody does this. Everybody remixes the setting a little bit to their own preferences.

>>97502798
>Everybody remixes the setting a little bit to their own preferences.
And then they don't try to claim that their own remixes are true for everybody, because they have object permanence and recognize that people exist outside their own circle.

>>97502802
Actually you're wrong, people will often bring up their own remixes and talk about that over whatever they decided to get rid of. Again, in literally every other thread in every other game. Taking issue with that is 100% a you problem.

>>97502798
>>97502813
>Everybody remixes the setting a little bit to their own preferences.
Take your argument and apply it to literally any other game. Let's take it to Shadowrun for example. Let's say that at your table you've set the datakrash in 2200 because you want more realistic tech development or something.

If you went into Shadowrun General and started talking about how the metaplot dates don't make any sense because XYZ technology wasn't developed at that time, you'd be rightfully called a schizo. Because nobody else is reading your fucking fanfiction. And if you tried to then say 'Oh it's in my fanfiction' they would tell you to get the fuck out because no you didn't establish that ahead of time so what you're actually doing is trying to save face after acting like a retard.

Funny thing is I bet you 100% that the devs use stuff and ideas that the fans seem to like or suggest. If they think they're good ideas.

God I love c0da. Too bad no one else really gets it. Vivec is a pussy.

>>97502802
People shill their own ideas all the time. In many communities, the fan idea becomes so popular that they forget the developers thing and that's perfectly okay

>>97502817
I am a shadowrun player. Nobody would call you a schizo. Mostly because shadowrun barely has enough players to maintain a general, but also because we appreciate hearing about everyone's vision

>>97502819
Again, people shilling their own ideas isn't what's being discussed. People talking about their own ideas as if they were canon, trying to pretend and convince people that they are canon, is the problem. Not whether they should be canon, whether they already are.

>>97502827
>we appreciate hearing about everyone's vision
Didn't say shit about someone presenting their vision. I explicitly pointed out that the person was not presenting their own vision, in fact.

>>97502833
And I'm telling you nobody would care. This is you, this is you having a personal problem and trying to call everyone crazy.

Bro nobody is trying to gaslight anybody here. You are just overly sensitive to critiques and alternative ideas

>>97502833
>>97502817
>>97502802
>>97502789
This fag is inventing problems to be mad about. I have half a mind to spend the next month just talking about my own personal Creation with made up book citations for the next month just to piss him off.

>>97502777
>I didn't like it because infernals basically didn't exist. It's weird to me how important Akuma were in a book where you would THINK all the exalted types would be important. Seeing as how it was the end of the line
That book was a capeshit summer mega event in written form, in these, the writers commonly will introduce enemies whose powers are "strong enough to be defeated in droves by the heroes", sometimes with a strong variation for a thematic boss fight.

Since only 50 Infernals exists at any given time, akumas and cultists were used as the variable strength minions.

>>97502837
My only argument has been that gaslighting people with the justification that your opinions matter is still gaslighting, and gaslighting people is bad. Somehow this was and is up for debate. I came in after people talked about TAW and Lunars and so on.

>>97502849
Nobody is trying to deceive anybody and make them feel crazy here. That's actually not happening in the slightest. The players feelings are much more important than the vision of the devs, that's just a known fact and often printed in the very books people cite. Get the fuck out.

>>97502843
You can enshittify the thread if you want to. It's not like we can stop you. I'm not sure what the motive to drive people away from the thread/game is, but you do you.

>>97502855
Honestly if I was a new player, you would be the problem, not a dude posting his homebrew without disclaimers

>>97502847
I mean, it was the culmination of something that was being written back before Exalted even existed. It really felt like someones project that they just couldn't let go of to me. I honestly think Infernals didn't even exist when the whole "Ebon Dragon escapes and make Scarlet Empress his wife" was thought up.

Exalted is defined by autism as much as it's defined by being super gay, so this just makes sense to me. I can't really prove it though.

>>97502864
It was the culmination of something bad.

Okay anyway, I don't like TAW because of all the monstery weirdness.
I think this is a really cool idea though. >>97498675

>>97502907
I was this guy >>97500485, and I agree that TAW doesn't hit because it's just too weird. It might just be personal preference but I don't feel like Enkidu with it. I'd rather go with like the mirror idea that was posted earlier though, that seems like it has some legs underneath it

>>97502925
>the mirror idea that was posted
At least it might get Lunars out of the rut of being restricted to animals, and even then not getting all of the animal's powers. The whole thing of Lunars being restricted away from special powers the things they're shapeshifting into get because that would make the Lunars too powerful is just absurd to me when Solar Circle Sorcery has stuff like Evocation from the Mirror proving that it should be possible to mirror powers regardless of how powerful they are. If Malfeas can get mirrored and have a duplicate Malfeas pop out, and the Lunar can eat Malfeas, why can't the Lunar take Malfeas' shape and use his powers?

>>97502955
Realistically, the most balanced and quicker to resolve in session way to do it would be to have a bunch of effects associated with creatures of each type.

>>97502955
Personally I'm much less interested in directly lifting charms than I am in the idea of being able to catch and redirect essence

>>97502978
Technique Mirror instead of Evocation from the Mirror, then. The point that 'sorcery does this so why would Lunars having it be too powerful to ever be possible' remains the same.

>>97503025
It's a fair enough point, just saying Id be more interested in new ways to use harnessed essence instead of straight up being a copycat

>>97503073
>>97502978
>catch and redirect essence
>new ways to use harnessed essence
I honestly dislike charms and abilities that are or are based in direct essence manipulation, in general. I don't think the Solar essence-lending/willpower-lending/absorbing charms make any sense in context of the themes of Solars, I think the Glorious Solar [Object] series of charms only work thematically when they're supposed to be an expression of the soul rather than making something out of solar essence, and I really dislike the spells that go on and on about 'threads of essence binding the target' or charms that're like 'collect essence into a blast' or whatever. I dislike essence being used as mana, as generic magical energy that has form and substance. I think it was coolest by far when things were always made up of essence, rather than essence being the thing itself, with maybe exception being made for first age magitech i.e. essence projects and suchlike. I would much prefer if they blasted people with obsidian butterflies (which, yes, are made of essence but in the way everything is), or redirected attacks like Crane Style, or rather than magical essence binding someone make it, Iunno, unbreakable red threads or suddenly growing vines or something.

Throwing essence around directly stops being fun flavorful fantasy and starts being generic ki blasts and green lantern without the passion real quick.

>>97503139
As the guy who originally suggested the idea, I think it can take a lot of forms. I think there will be some direct Essence power because honestly ki blasts are cool, but reflecting or harnessing the essence of others can also be stuff like how Sasuke adapted Rock Lee's technique into his own.

>>97502677
You can feel about something any way you want, it doesn't give you license to barefacedly lie about it and try to influence others' perceptions based on a fraudulent version of the facts, i.e. gaslight.

>>97502818
>Funny thing is I bet you 100% that the devs use stuff and ideas that the fans seem to like or suggest. If they think they're good ideas.
It's an open secret that half the stuff in 3e was blatantly ripped off from 2e fan material.

>>97503519
That's not what the conversation was about. You're an oversensitive ninny making extremely serious accusations about people for no reason. This isn't your discord, this isn't Reddit. Get over yourself.

>>97503519
>You can feel about something any way you want, it doesn't give you license to barefacedly lie about it and try to influence others' perceptions based on a fraudulent version of the facts, i.e. gaslight.
Yep.

>>97503585
>That's not what the conversation was about.
I'm the anon he's backing and yes, that was exactly what I was talking about.

>>97503585
>>97503519
I feel like this guy's autism is treating the complaint to that taw is like infernals as if it was some kind of ploy to get people to hate it. I'd argue it's not even an untrue statement, but rather than strictly mechanically, it's very similar in the transhuman monstrous nature. That's probably why people call it silver infernals but anon is a faggot and thinks people are trying to somehow brainwash him because he can't think beyond charm structure.

>>97503610
The whole gaslighting discussion started after TAW/Lunars were discussed, and the only relevance is that one sprung from pointing out a blatant fallacy made during the tail-end of the argument, one which is incorrect independent of the points made about Lunars. You're trying to relate two things that aren't related. Cyberpunk has more relevance than Lunars to the gaslighting discussion.

>>97503638
Nigger I'm reading this stupid reply chain. This gaslighting thing is 100% some autist having a shitfit about nothing and everybody would be better off if he shut the fuck up. The original complainer made some really salient points, and then said he didn't like TAW because it's silver infernals to him and that spiraled into somebody being mortally offended. It's fucking stupid, this entire reply chain has been fucking stupid and the people complaining about gaslighting are the most retarded of all. Fucking stick to your private discords if you feel mentally attacked by being in this thread

>>97502864
I know, it is a sequel to 1e's "totally not a metaplot", I was explaining the lack of Infernals involvement.

>>97502683
Anon, I start here. Which is where the discussion shifted, and from then on nobody talked about Lunars except to say that I was talking about Lunars when I wasn't talking about Lunars, after which I would tell them I wasn't talking about Lunars and never had.

If you've been reading, and that's your excuse for being an asshole, then maybe you're bad at reading and your opinion is worth less because of it.

>>97503648
>>97503686

>>97503686
I'm stating the entire conversation started with it, and if you are the guy who just came in by yourself to be offended at nothing then you're even more retarded. Especially if it's you who introduced the idea of gaslighting. I reiterate, this doesn't make you look better. It makes you look more stupid because you don't even have a dog in the original race.

>>97503720
>Especially if it's you who introduced the idea of gaslighting.
No, I just pointed out that your feelings don't change canon, repeated that point a few times, and agreed with the person saying that gaslighting people about what is canon or not is bad when it came up.

>>97503738
Careful, don't play his game. He's trying to deflect from the actual point of the discussion. Take notice of how he's redirected the conversation to a meaningless "NO U" spiral to distract from his lack of actual coherent criticisms regarding TAW.

>>97503738
There is no gaslighting and there never has been and rule zero > book lore all day every day. I swear this is the only thread on the board where we have to have this conversation on the regular.

>>97503747
Nigga go back to the trannycord. I was there when TAW first came out on the now defunct forums. I was there win a lot of lunar fans were upset about how transhumanist and monstrous it was. And yeah, that's definitely a complaint you can lodge against it because it's such a departure from the hero myth side of Lunars. If you're not into the wacky weird, the book's not for you. Is that a coherent, cohesive, and cogent enough complaint for your autism? Do I have to go redownload it and then point out specific paragraphs of things I don't like or are you going to just shut the fuck up and allow people to have opinions?

>>97503750
>I swear this is the only thread on the board where we have to have this conversation on the regular.
Anon this is only the second time we've had the discussion. I haven't left, so when you espouse the same opinion not so many months later of course I'm going to refute it.

>There is no gaslighting and there never has been
>rule zero > book lore all day every day.
Wow you described two things I didn't argue for or against successfully good job making those straw men.

>Rule zero > Book Lore
IN YOUR GAMES YES
In MY games, YOUR Rule 0 at YOUR table doesn't beat MY books, let alone MY rule 0. On this public forum, your rule 0 does not beat the books everybody uses and generally agrees exist as a shared setting for roleplaying unless those people agree to do so, which they do not by default do. You are not the main character.

>Gaslighting
I haven't claimed anybody in the thread has been doing it, only that it is bad to do and that people in /exg/ threads have done it in the past.

>>97503763
>On this public forum, your rule 0 does not beat the books everybody uses and generally agrees exist as a shared setting for roleplaying unless those people agree to do so, which they do not by default do. No other thread is as uptight as this. People just spout off their homebrew without having to qualify it as not being canon at all. This is what people are telling you to relax about, because it's not normal to be this uptight.

>>97503780
Oops. Mobile posting be mobile posting. I'll repost my bit for clarity
"No other thread is as uptight as this. People just spout off their homebrew without having to qualify it as not being canon at all. This is what people are telling you to relax about, because it's not normal to be this uptight."

>>97503760
>And yeah, that's definitely a complaint you can lodge against it because it's such a departure from the hero myth side of Lunars.
This is a lie, Lunars never had a hero myth in the first place.

>I was there win a lot of lunar fans were upset about how transhumanist and monstrous it was.
Lunars fans also defended the lack of 1e social charms, or the fact that you could only play 3 characters with them.

>>97503780
>No other thread is as uptight as this. People just spout off their homebrew without having to qualify it as not being canon at all. This is what people are telling you to relax about, because it's not normal to be this uptight.
Okay, previously I said that I hadn't accused anybody of gaslighting. That's going to have to change because this is the second time you've said it and this is matter of fact gaslighting. This is an accusation: You're trying to gaslight us on this particular topic with this particular claim, which is false, but difficult enough to prove either way that it's not worth arguing, which would let you seem to win de-facto.

Gaslighting is bad, and you suck for trying it.

>>97503786
It's not gaslighting. I challenge you to find examples in other threads of people having to put disclaimers on their homebrew or else face the ire of the thread. Do it. I'll give you time.

>>97503799
>It's not gaslighting. I challenge you to find examples in other threads of people having to put disclaimers on their homebrew or else face the ire of the thread. Do it. I'll give you time.
lmao
I literally just said that this is exactly what you were going to do and why it was bad and then you just went and did it anyway, you're so fucked up anon.

>>97503784
Neither of those are evidence to the contrary, just some snark. I will add that it's largely deserved snark, but it's just that.

>>97503809
Oh I see you don't have to back up your accusations or claims. My bad, I guess you're the main character.

>>97503814
Lunars were never based on myth, they were made to bait Apocalypse players into playing this game.
And it is well documented that Holden defended 1e!Lunars during 1e, he even saw "Changing moons as the singular caste" as a small quick.

>>97503822
Anon you had nothing backing up your assertion that other threads were telepathic, bowing to the whims of any homebrew that came through without indication that it was homebrew or clarification on what the homebrew involved in the first place, don't put this on me.

>>97503827
I mean yeah, those are pretty bad attitudes to have, although the game has always attempted to create the idea of a heroic myth. It has often failed spectacularly because they do not treat the splat with the respect it deserves nor do they have a clear vision for how to achieve it. I'd go so far as to say that the lack of a clear vision is why there are as many lunar ideas out there, because there's no real rallying point. TAW is a more wrought out example, but it's definitely not for everybody and it is not what some people think of when they think lunar. Some people really just see them as the anime cat girl splat

>>97503833
You're looking at the evidence right now. Go browse the catalog.

>>97503847
>You're looking at the evidence right now. Go browse the catalog.
We call this trick... gaslighting.

>>97503859
Gaslighting would be if I didn't allow you to independently check my claims, and instead controlled your perception of what is happening to make you doubt yourself or feel insane. That's not what's happening here, I'm inviting you to go look for yourself without my supervision or influence. Fact check me

>>97503843
It failed more because Exalted was never meant to be heroic/mythological fantasy, it is a facade so players would be lured into playing Grabowski's WoDesque epic tragedy.

With Lunars being utterly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, with the only reason of being celestial exalted, being that Solars used to keep them as mail brides.

In before: I play exalted to play exalted, and WoD to play WoD; so I ignore the devs attempts of fantasy WoD such as "character sheet, you lose".

>>97503868
No, lying about the evidence right in front of my eyes, that you yourself are directing me to, is gaslighting. This controlling perception stuff is just altering the definition to better fit your message. I can and have checked a dictionary just now and what do you know you're wrong.

>>97503585
>>97503648
>>97503760
Nice try gaslighter-kun, but it's precisely the Trooncord-dwelling subhumans that dishonestly smear TAW like you're doing.

>>97503882
It sure is a good thing the gameline moved past Grabowski. His good ideas were cool, but his bad ideas were horrible

I want to fuck Lilith.

>1e Lunars.
It was weird to see people people defending it, specially Raksi who was full Epstein in it.

>>97503885
>Read the books or the old threads.
>Stop gaslighting me.
Turns out the "TAW = Alchemicals" anon wasn't the autistic ones.

>>97503885
If I'm lying about thread culture, post the evidence. How can I possibly be psychologically manipulating you by telling you that you are free to gather the tools to prove your point?

>>97503889
It only did with ink monkeys who weren't properly trained during 2e, than they went full "Grabowski 2: Lunars weren't implemented right".

>>97503907
If you think I'm happy about the job they're doing right now, I got a surprise for you.

>>97503915
Not even remotely? They removed the wyld charms, since those detracted from the "petting zoo" themes, and gave them culture heroes powers, so they can be the right kind of barbarian.

>>97503928
I just said I wasn't happy with them.

>>97503901
>How can I possibly be psychologically manipulating you by telling you that you are free to gather the tools to prove your point?
I'm going to take this as an honest question independent of your clearly hostile and fallacious position. The way you go about manipulating people into thinking that the evidence before them is what you say it is, even though it's not, is by claiming that it is what you say it is and pointing them at the whole breadth of potential evidence out there. Citing all-encompassing sources like, "The history of /exg/ shows that..." or "The catalog proves that..." or "Everyone else agrees with me," are ways that you can make people question what they know or perceive, and do it without proving your point. It's just throwing the burden of proof away from the person making the claim and onto the person pointing out that it's unsubstantiated, and when questioned saying 'go prove it yourself, you'll find the evidence to support me'. It's a deceptive and dishonest way to fake evidence, force someone out of the argument (because they can't be assed finding your evidence for you) so that you can seem victorious as the last man standing, or in the absolute best case have someone do your work for you. Whichever of those ways it lands is good for you, but bad for anybody trying to come to the truth of whatever matter is being discussed.

>>97503959
Or it's because posting entire threads worth of screencaps of nobody getting called out here would be even more pointless spam than we're already engaging in. There's an element of practicality here.

>>97504001
>There's an element of practicality here.
So you acknowledge practicality on your side but not on the side of the person pointing out that you're talking out your ass, noted. We call this one hypocrisy.

>>97503959
Third party here. You aren't being gaslit and it's kind of fucked for you to think you're being mentally sabotaged by this. Gaslighting is what abusive spouses do, but this guy just has a different take on the board culture.
>>97504024
All you have to do to prove him wrong is quickly scan a thread and screenshot something that supports you. He would have to clip the entirety of each thread he wanted to submit as evidence and let you inspect each one. It is much more practical for you to post evidence than for him to post evidence of absence in this scenario.

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I think 3e actually got most of the ways there to making Lunars good, the main issue was just the Silver Pact are still jobbers in the setting, a lot of Lunar charms got powercrept and made more fun by later Exigents/Abyssals/Sidereals and we're still going nearly 25 years later on making illusions into a hassle.

I like the weirder parts about Lunar charms in theory, especially 3e, but the way they're written is very meandering. Concepts are there but the execution was bad. I know they have to be less broad and not as powerful as Solar charms, but you can still do that shit while playing into their fantasy as being apex predators/prey of nature. You can still also have the so called 'blue mage', faerie and illusion charms through the lens of being a monster.

For the lore, it genuinely cannot be fixed unless you clearly integrate Lunars from the corebook onwards and also make other splats acknowledge them. The way the DB books talk about Lunars are as an annoying pest rather than existential threats and the Sidereals/Abyssals book barely gives a fuck about them. Exigents book doesn't either.

>>97504024
I really have no words for how you're acting like a victim despite me letting you do everything you want or need to in order to disprove me.