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In case anyone is interested in reading the lore blurb about the potential Wood Elf vs Tomb King conflict.

>TQ
None of them. Legacy factions aren't coming back. Enjoy your chinkslop and Ice Bears.

>>97484740
Wood Elves are the faction I was most interested in but I was put off by the amount of metal in their range. I really hope the starter box rumor is true.

What's the source of it?

>>97484726
It’s a quirk from this edition anon, don’t worry too much. I fucked it up the first month or two as well.
Honestly the rule should be put in with the skirmisher rule for clarity.
Skirmishers: bla bla bla.
In addition skirmishers us1 and below are harder to pick out and suffer -1 bla bla bla.


But yeah, hellblasters will fucking toast those dwarf copters, especially if you have a designated engineer nearby.
Double especially if you give him a gun to double tap afterwards. Just make sure to deploy so your hellblaster has coverage over where you expect the gyros to end up.

>TQ
I hope none. They shouldn't waste resources on making models for those boring factions.

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>>97484725
>Which of the legacy factions do you think will be brought back first?

Dark elves are the most obvious choice I think, they'll get the beastmen treatment. Most of their stuff is still on square bases in AoS store.

>>97484725
>TQ
vampire counts or vampire coast because i really want to make an army of them

>>97485144
>vampire coast
tww reddit memeshit

>>97485279
Yes, you just described TOW. Sorry, TWW is the new DOW, and just as with DOW and the 4chan of old most people interested in the setting got into it through that excellent video game. If you don't like it, the AOS thread is that way.

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>>97485144
Dude just use the 6e list for in tow, or alternately use the tk mortuary cult list- it’s a pretty close match man.

Coast is great fun and I enjoyed making them very much.

>>97485279
Played the first game. Didn't like the downgraded settlements and braindead AI that can barely navigate sieges. Still think undead pirates are cool though.

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>>97485144
>>97485303
Expanding on this, start making an army, here’s the old official list.
sgabetto.free.fr/Telechargements/War.CZombiePirates.pdf


It did actually receive an errata on the old gw forums but that’s lost to time. - have fun.
I think the real strength of the list is the move and fire caronades and the bloated corpses- I often took 4 bloated corpses as excellent redirectors.
Don’t run handguns- use mass pistols, charge with them and hit with was getting around wet powders shitty accuracy.

The dogs, rat swarms and handgunners are absolutely fucking useless- so just make a few to keep amongst the lot of zombies for variety.
If you desire.
I think my lists when I finally figured out how not to get tabled with them were:
Luthor
3 shipwight including a bsb.
3 or 4 units of 10 pistol gunners(wights go here)
2 big units of 30-36 deckhands
4-6 bloated corpses
2 carronades(mvps) , 4deck droppers (sometimes hulks)

Bess once you figure her out and land a shot puts the fear in your opponent for months afterwards- but takes up many slots and is so prone to misfire.
1 undead leviathan(really good)

Anyway anon just start creating the vamp coast, I would love to see how you paint them.

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Repostan my Necromancer. What are you dudes painting lately?

How would Kruleboyz look in an army with black orcs? .. too out of place ? ..

Just trying to find an alternative to normal boyz

>>97485298
>excellent video game.
Bait used to be believable.

>>97485040
Without a doubt Dark Elves are coming. The only question is when.

>>97485389
hes cool as ever anon, how many pts of undead do you have painted?
I just today finished painting my 21 stormvermin. Will take some pics later.

>>97485472
I think they'd suit better aesthetically with forest goblins and araknaroks. As they read very jungley to me. Probably the worst to rank up though.

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>>97485524
I'm actually fucking about with Mordheim and terrain at the moment anon, he's for my warband. I was working on O&G but took a break because recently I'm too busy to paint batches

>>97485527
They seem to be ranking up fine in other images. So far i just have night goblins, from highland, gw black orcs and stone troggoths

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>>97485389
Almost done with this dwarf slayer.
Hoping to finally finish Battle for Skullpass that me and my brother got 20 years ago.

>>97485551
Oh cool, well you may as well batch out the zombies for your mordheim band at least.
>>97485555
Oh that’s good, I had no idea.
I’m sure they would be fine then. I personally think they would look cooler with tribal paint like savage orks but that’s just me.
>>97485564
He looks like he’s taken one too many troll blows to the head, but the beards turned out really good anon.


>>97485389
Ratzzz at last. Next up, banner musician, and 2 more rattling guns incase my pals get more competitive and I start losing.

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>>97485609
Oops, they scurried off.

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>>97485472
aos stuff is too big to pass as a lower caste to black orcs

you could keep the idea of lankier underlings to your black orcs by using middle earth, oathmark or warlord games orcs

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>>97485636
or you could use a resin alternative like maxmini or kromlech or prints from avatars of war

kromlech also has enough heads that you could probably pick any bulky plastic kit, like mantic orcs, slap them on and still end with orcs that look like warhammer orcs

some recasters should have kromlech stuff, to get that cheaper too

>>97485611
Thwy look very nasty. Interesting bronze too. Is it normal metallic paint?

>>97485636
You might be right, might go for some highlander orcs instead

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My first 3 big uns, still need to base. I love these greenies!

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>>97485472

Avatar of war orc range is really nice and pretty close to Warhammer fantasy orc aesthetics.

I don't think Kruleboyz fit into TOW

>>97485515
About a week after I decide to finally start on Wood Elves and drop some cash on them.

>>97485748
I too am holding out on starting my Tomb Kings incase there is a refresh. Might get myself one of the new characters to paint to tickle my paintbuds.

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>>97485683
Thank you anon, its actually a custom recipe!
chain-mail silver base
Followed by a nice brown wash,
vallejo or army painter red contrast slightly thinned.
Add chipping/scratching via AHC chrome and chainmail mix.

>>97485753
We won't know until Adepticon at the earliest, and then it might be months away from release, like with this Cathay second wave.

>>97485389
trying to clear out my 40k and Aos backlog so I can justify starting TOW.

with any luck I'll have made enough space before that new starter comes out

>>97485040
Online only is worse than the holocaust.

>>97485844
84 dollars for 20 guys is still a little cheaper than most similar TOW infantry boxes

>>97485472
Anon its orcs. They are not exactly uniform to begin with, one branch of fucks being a bit weirder and taller than the other branch of fucks does not really make a difference.

>>97485849
the other boxes you can get with discounts up to 25%

>>97485609
>>97485611
>He looks like he’s taken one too many troll blows to the head

Yeah, now that you mentions it, he does look a bit drugged. I'll just say he chugged an entire keg before battle.

>but the beards turned out really good anon.

Thanks, I spent way too long on it, so glad it paid off.

Nice looking rattos, I really like how you made the metal.

>>97485849
I don't really care about the price as much as having to order from GW directly instead of being able to pop down to my LGS and rummage around.
It is simply detrimental to the hobby experience.

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>>97485860
Sure, but you're still getting the models from GW cheaper than you will when they get reboxed for TOW.

So it's not worse than the holocaust, it's maybe worse than, like, the Katyn massacre. Not a big deal.

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>>97485923
sigmar, i love big boobies…

>>97485923
>Sure, but you're still getting the models from GW cheaper than you will when they get reboxed for TOW.
No, because when they get reboxed you'll be able to get them with the discount since they won't be online-only.

Are you daft or something that you buy from gw directly?

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I finally painted my first minotaur. Real happy with how he turned out.

>>97485995
20 dark elf spearmen are 84 bucks from GW
20 high elf spearmen are 76 bucks from Amazon.

That's a difference of 8 bucks.

Of course I'm not happy about the 8 bucks. But if I really wanted to start Dark Elves, and I liked those models specifically, I'd probably be willing to spend the 8 bucks to have them months ahead of time. I probably wouldn't go to a full tournament army of official GW models at that price difference, but get started on some guys, figure out my color scheme, maybe even do 500 points so I could try some Foray games? Why not? Especially when for all we know TOW Dark Elfs might be on the other side of another price raise.

But if spending 8 bucks isn't worth it for you, that's fine. It's an issue of personal priorities.

>>97486154
>Amazon
Nigger, are you being serious right now? I can walk down a nearby store and grab them for 62 bucks

move your fucking ass and look for better deals from your local stores

>>97486203
Nta but all the stores in my area sell on full gw price, and it's not even like warhammer is popular here, even 40k gets drowned out by cardgames. I can get a discount but I'd have to order from retailers online which kind of cuts into the value in the first place.

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Made myself a border princes bombard

What are you working on?

>>97486272
for when you switch from the chivalric code to the chode

>>97486283
This is for Renegade Crowns but close enough (hence why I've used the empire stuff as a base)

>>97486154
High elves come in boxes of 32.

>>97486272
Basing my men at arms. I'm annoyed because I got a dropper bottle of whatever the dryad bark equivalent for army painter is according to conversion tables and it doesn't look like dryad bark at all.

What is the easiest army, besides tomb boys to paint ?

>>97486344
Warriors of Chaos.

>buying age of shitmar miniatures to play a faction that's been abandoned by GW
lmao

Owning models? Playing the game? A preposterous notion.

I dont see legacy armies coming back at least until savage orcs come back.

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I want to have my BSB have a picture of the Lady on it like how some Christian tapestries had Jesus or Mary on it, but I'm not confident in my free hand skills.
Are there any decal sheets or transfers that have somthing like pic related on it?

>>97486505
If you're not confident in your skills, then practice until you are. Paint on paper, paint on other pieces of plastic (primed of course), then paint your actual banner. Practice makes permanent, anon, so get to it! Now! Go! No shortcuts!

>>97486505
>putting an elf on your banner

>>97486096
Good job, would raid with! Going to use him WYSIWYG?

>>97486553
nigga this ain 40k

Pretty sad when you realise that a large chunk of sales, from some AoS' factions, are not actually from players of the intended system.
Another evidence on how moronic GW is.

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>>97486505
I think you could just grab that, after having that colored, and glue on top of a golden foil (fortune cookies are an alternative source)

>>97486611
>a large chunk of sales, from some AoS' factions, are not actually from players of the intended system.
source?

>>97486612
the main issue is that golden Christian imagery wasn't meant to flow, gold layering didn't work like that, it was mounted on a wooden board

which technically makes things way easier for you

>>97486096
Is that from the realm of chaos line?

>>97486635
My girlfreind's bvll works at Games Workshop as a diversity consultant

>>97486710
even he wouldnt know the intention of customers for what system they are buying thos minis.

>>97486553
Thanks. Yes he will be wysiwyg (minotaur with great weapon)
>>97486707
It's a 5th-6th edition whfb model.

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>>97486505
i like her nice perky healthy firm round boobs :DDd xP

this is what marauders should have looked like

I need art of female chaos warriors please

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>>97486791
full women chaos warrior art pretty rare

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>>97486791
I think the only official art will be of Valkia, Dechala and Frydaal.

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>>97486791

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>>97486791

>>97486791
We’ll get plenty art with the new chaos wave. Along with minatures.

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>>97486791
any armored helmeted chaos warrior could be an foid anon

gotrex and felix has a cool female chaos lord/chosen or something

I am looking forward to new Tomb King core kits as I am sure they will look amazing. I am also sure they will be a pain in the ass to assemble. I look forward to seeing what new torture the designers come up with this time. Maybe having to glue in bones individually starting from a spinal column.

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>>97487496
it will probably be on a similar level to the new tomb king charecter kits from last year

>>97487516
This looks like a mess

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>>97487516
for a moment I was shitting my pants thinking anon's exaggerated fears were justified

>>97487496
>new Tomb King core kits
Are there even any rumors about these? I sure would be happy with new skellies and horses

>>97487625
It was not fun to build.

>>97484725
Which books have dragon related stuff in them? I'm researching dragons from different ttrpgs and settings, I'd be grateful for some pointers.

>>97487709
too many and not enough, you won't find any particular depth to their worldbuilding

>>97487709
Konosuba dragon maid, also look up vrita and Indra.

>>97487516
no it won't because the tomb king character kits actually exist. Also modern GW skeletons are fucking awful to assemble, worse than the old if that is possible.

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This is my chaos sorcerer

>>97487932
You seem to have misunderstood what "28mm scale" means.

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I've only ever been a GM but a friend I've ran games for in the past invited me to his first time GMing WHFRP and I'm so excited. I've never touched this game before and this is such a cool opportunity.

I'm making a Warrior Priest inspired by pic related, I was thinking he'd be a Tileian-bron soldier in the Empire who had a Visitation by Morr in the middle of a cruel fight and decided to drop everything to go to the nearest temple and dedicate himself to his new God.

Another player was making his character at the same time and he decided to do it randomly... And ended up pulling the Priest career so we decided we're both from the same temple and have been sent to Reiksland to deal with a sudden increase in undead and cult activity. The dice rolls landed us in a situation where I'm thinking of playing my guy as sort of the party's dad and specifically aimed at the priest he's guarding; gruff and stoic but genuinely caring for his ward(s).

Anything I should get in mind or read up? I'm not a minmaxer but I'm a forever DM AND this is my first time playing anything WHF related so I might be going a bit overboard and overthinking everything.

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>>97487709
Dragon Masters: the Dragoning, or at least one would assume so.

>>97488207
2e? 4e?
In the latter case, the careers more or less play themselves. Do your GM a favor and read the rules for miracles and how to cast them. And all talents that are available to you. Your GM needs to juggle a lot, so you can help them by understand your own career well.
Regarding 4e:
Reminder yourself that talents add a bonus to their respective rolls. Not all of them, but this is a pretty big deal that a lot of groups are missing, because the layout of the book.
In case you are wondering what to do with your money, once you have a lot (depends on how much the GM hands out): improving your armor, for instance making it lighter, is a great investment.

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>>97488278
Yeah, we're playing 4e.

I did end up taking Blessings so I'm familiarizing myself with them, too early to worry about miracles but I'll read about them all the same.

One of the things I was struggling with is the weapon tags; my hammer has Damaging but I'm not sure I'm clear on the specifics of it.

"A Damaging weapon can use the higher score from either the units die or the SL to determine the Damage caused from a succesful hit. For example, if you roll 34 in your attack Test and the target number was 52 you can choose to use the SL; which in this case is 2 or the units die result which is 4. "

Any hope for an ELI5?

>>97487653
>Are there even any rumors about these?
Just the TK vs WE box rumors. Core infantry and cav seem safe bets for refreshes being how old they are.

>>97488368
It'd be pretty hilarious if tomb kings got another starter set with the ancient sloppy seconds skeleton warriors.

>>97488396
I'd get pretty triggered not gonna lie

>>97488367
>Any hope for an ELI5?
What?
"Damaging" means that for the extra damage, you can chose to take single digit of your roll, instead of the Success based on the target number and your roll.
In that example, that would be the 4 of the 34.
Rolling a 34 with a target number would mean 2 Successes, added as extra damage on top of the weapon's base damage + your strength. But with this trait, you can instead take 4 extra damage.
If you, in this example, rolled 39, you could instead add 9 extra damag.

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>>97488414
Oh I'm retarded. Thanks for the explanation!

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tag urself hehe :p

What if instead of tomb king vs wood elves it’s actually Ogres vs Dark Elves how cool would that be

>>97488653
Me one up from the far right bottom corner

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>>97488659
Would be booting.

>>97488676
Boring*

>>97488659
I'd still prefer Kislev vs Vamps. New models, refresh on vamps. Could pull double duty on skeletons by just adding some shield options that could fit tomb kings.

>>97488735
Nah let’s be honest, any new skeletons will be blinged out rather than basic. For tks the bling level will probably be between current basic skellingtons and tomb guard

>>97488744
If they were vamp skeletons they might be fairly basic. But otherwise yeah I agree with you.

>>97488735
fuck that shit, vampires already have the now unused 7th ed kits for skeletons and grave guards

it's only fair that tomb kings are allowed to have their time in the sun with their own skeletons for once

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>>97488832
The 7th edition VC skeleton kit is to this day my favorite kit ever produced by GW. I was appalled to see what they sell for on ebay sealed/nos now.

>>97486761
Tbqh I wish the Norscans existed as a non chaotic tribe of northmen, feels like they would serve well as a road bump alongside Kislev. The Warhammer Renaissance rules for them are kino.

>>97488874
There’s nothing stopping you from making secular your dude raiders. Except for the concept of being secular doesn’t make sense in the Warhammer world but still, you can do it. Just run a wolves of the sea raider type list.

>>97485717
Nice work anon, how many more do you have left?
>>97486272
That’s turned out really well, now for the true test: painting!
>>97486344
Ogres, don’t use gnoblars and you’ve got a 12 model 1k pts

>>97488872
Me too man, I have kitbashed together tha kit, the old pre tk split skeleton warriors kit, and the wargames Atlantic skeletons for my 50 or so skeleton warriors. No regrets.

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>>97488902
The new marauders are still pretty decked out in chaos symbols, but perhaps gw will try something like that with a future arcane journal or army of renown

>>97488902
They wouldn't be purely secular, they have ancestor gods, earth spirits, "totally not chaos gods", and even some southlander gods like Ulric. Theres a bunch of dark age minis I really love but they all feel a little out of place with warhammer minis.

>>97488653
Vampire.

>>97488929
Indeed, but I think the way you paint them would be more than enough to convey your desire.

>>97488955
>ancestor gods, earth spirits, "totally not chaos gods
Aren't these already the basis for Norscan religion? All of these three simply being different ways to unknowingly worship the Chaos Gods in their various forms.

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>>97488990
southern norscan at least worship a lot of gods, not just chaos gods, but Ulric, Taal and pic examples of sea gods

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>>97488976
vampire?? hmm maybe the chaos sorcerer you mean? he was a weird awkward little sculpt and design lol

>>97488872
Really sad these fellers aren't in circulation. In lieu of this, I've been kitbashing tomb kings skeletons with modern skulls from the skulls box, leftover hand weapon arms from my graveguard and leftover round shields from my ungors (the left hand holding the shield is still hilariously big but they're partially sanded down and hidden by the shield, noone but me is going to care)

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>>97488919
Thanks man. None, i finiahed tonight besides basing. Here are the Command Big Uns

>>97486639
luckily there are no Christians in this setting

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Wip of my Sisters of Avelor. I already fixed that spill on the cloak. I will give them a brown base with grass on top of it to make the white more stand out. I. unsure about using gold for the scabbard,
I really like where they are at now. I got 20 to this state in a single evening.

>>97489870
gold isn't going to start flowing like tissue just because christ isn't involved.

>>97489913
Looks good. I need to learn how to do white cloaks, yours are very clean,

>>97489994
My method is pretty simple, I spray an off white primer like wraithbone, shade with grey shade like smoke grey two thin coats, I spray with valejo white primer. Gives some easy shading. Otherwise i recommend just using grey shade in the recesses and then highlight over the edges with a true white. I also always thin whites with medium.

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>>97489733
I followed the suggestion to have the two bosses scrap. The shield one had Heavy Armour, Hand Weapon and enchanted shield.

The Warboss mini, acting as big boss, had great weapon and meteoric iron. The boss with the great weapon flattened the other twice, so guess I am going with him as my leader

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>>97484725
it's called war of vengeance OP
on another note i finished my second ranger, only took a year or so, by 2030 i should have a minimum sized unit

>>97490135
Hell yeah! You painted the classic orc quick! Looks dope. Not to sound cliche but your post drips of soul.

>>97490262
You may be very slow/busy but you paint beautiful models.

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>>97490450
been busy drinking myself to death for the past year, i'm better now, one month free whoo
thank god for tww, playing dorfs helps with the will to paint

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>>97490468
wrong pic

>>97490468
>>97490472
oh it’s you!!! I remember you posting these from a long time ago! Congrats on the month away from the drink. It can be a terrible affliction. I am so glad to see you back and to hear you are doing better now.

>>97490468
I'm glad you're doing alright, NMMdwarfanon. Please continue to take care of yourself as you would someone you love.

>>97490262
>on another note i finished my second ranger, only took a year or so, by 2030 i should have a minimum sized unit
Get back to the blood angel mines!

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>>97490477
i'm glad to see myself back as well, feels like i lifted a fog over my mind
>>97490478
eh, still working on the "loving myself" part but i'm objectively not a bad person, so there's that.
>>97490482
kek, maybe i should update the picture of the blood angel army, it's been growing steadily, i should be over 250 marines by now
if i can keep a steady life i should finally have a thousand playable points this year

>>97490522
>250 marines
thats 2,500 pts of tacticals alone, surely you have over 1k already

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>>97490543
i was talking about a thousand pts of dwarfs
i'm well over 9000 with blood angels

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>>97485389
I'm pretty new to actually painting minis still, but I always wanted a Lizardmen army. They've still got a long way to go, but I'm really happy with the start.

>>97490562
That’s a lot of blood angels

>>97490608
They look cool anon. Great job on the bases and using flock. So many new painters nowadays just slop on texture paint and never bother how to base traditionally. It’s a nice thing to see.

>>97490562
Do-do you have a titan? I swear ive seen a similar image with a titan.

Also its shocking how big sicarans are.

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>>97490650
i do, he has a funky dragon on the knee

How good are the dark elves?

>>97490666
Fuck thats cool.

Also, its funny that theres a horus heresy off topic in WFG and a WFB off topic in HHG

>>97490686
In TOW? Not very.
Their infantry arent very good and their special rules are kinda sub par (lmao murderous).

They can still win games (they have dragons, and dark riders are pretty good) but a lot of their units are quite bad and a lot of their gameplay is going to feel subpar/abusive

>>97490686
As >>97490704 said.

But I wanted to add that Dark Elves are 99.9% (imo) going to come back as a full core army. The only question is when. As someone else pointed out, they never even rebased them for AoS. If you buy them today they come with the old smaller squares.

Is it me or is Nuln Oil kind of mid now?

>>97490798
I agree.

>>97484725
>TQ
Dark Elves for sure. I would like to see the Vampire Counts come back. A buddy of mine who I got into WFB would buy a whole army in one purchase if they brought them back.

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>>97489653
There are recasts available

>>97484725
so when will the new cathay stuff come out? the peasants and the crane gunners i mean.

god cathay really needs more units. im already bored of them and i played like 4 games.

>>97491581
They said late winter so depending of what that means late february or early march.

>>97491597
alright thats not so bad. i only play like 1-2 games a month so i can just play something else until then.

>>97490686
Like most legacy armies, not very good or fun, nonsensical rules.

Doesn't help that elves generally are pretty meh at the moment. You're paying premium for lmao 3S 3T infantry.

>>97486272
That cannon is from an ogre leadbelcher, isnt it?

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Hey anons, I've been steadily working on my Hochland army, and I've been wondering what I should do for a secondary army for around 750 points.

I thought it might be fun to make my own knightly order for the Empire, especially as I like the sculpts for the knights and archers (and can get them from a few LGS here), but I don't really know which miniature would fit well for a chapter master. The current chapter/grand masters available are too obviously part of their respective canon orders, and there isn't really another alternative available, so I thought about getting one either through a reseller or a third party one that fits.

I thought about tracking down a Kurt Helborg miniature to use, but does anyone have other suggestions that could work? The order is going to be Sigmar-themed.

>>97491699
you could just use the mounted general of the empire plastic kit, which has a lot of sigmarite imagery especially on the horse

>>97485844
Well for starters online only is real

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>>97491699
Like earlier anon said, get the empire general kit.
It has amazing kit bash potential and lots of bits.

You could maybe get the flagellants kit as well.

>>97492167
Forgot to add this is featured in WD325.
A great inspiration on how to use the general kit.

>>97486341
Anon I've been in the hobby for close to 2 decades. Conversion charts are always bullshit marketing ploys - they never line up. Different batches of the same colour can even have minor variations, as can colours from the same brand that are sold as both paints and sprays.

It's a chore, but once you figure out how to mix paint properly AND record the recipie you'll have a far easier time sourcing constant colours.

How's this list? I know mortar isn't the most optimal choice but I'll probably be facing big blocks of infantry

===
Renegade Crowns [997 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Renegade Crowns, Grand Melee + Combined Arms
===

++ Characters [185 pts] ++

Renegade Captain [105 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Great weapon
- Full plate armour
- General
- The Might of Miragliano [Stubborn
- Tilean Stoicism]
- On foot
- Sword of Sorrow
- Charmed Shield

Outcast Wizard [80 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Wizard [Level 1 Wizard]
- On foot
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Dark Magic

++ Core Units [622 pts] ++

19 Veteran Sellswords [240 pts]
- Great weapons
- Full plate armour
- Shields
- Veteran Officer (champion)
- Standard bearer

21 Sellsword Infantry [174 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Heavy armour
- Shields
- Heavy Infantry
- Phalanx
- Officer (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

10 Sellsword Infantry [70 pts]
- Crossbows
- Light armour
- Shields

6 Hireling Outriders [138 pts]
- Brace of pistols
- Heavy armour
- Shields
- Reserve Move
- Vanguard

++ Special Units [90 pts] ++

Border Princes Mortar [90 pts]
- Mortar
- Hand weapons

++ Rare Units [100 pts] ++

Border Princes Bombard [100 pts]
- Bombard
- Hand weapons
- Light armour

>>97491868
>>97492167
>>97492178
Thanks! I didn't know that that kit had enough variation like that.

I have my eye on an oldhammer Helborg sculpt right now, but I'll look at the general kit as well.

>>97492263
Disclaimer. My experience with TOW is limited. While I have played plenty of empire I have not played any renegade crowns but I assume the factions are similar.

Drop the great weapon on the captain. He already has a magic weapon. Drop the shields from the great weapon vet sellswords.

Outriders are cool but I would drop them and get 2 more units of 10 crossbowmen.

Can that wizard be bumped up to Lv2?

>>97486203
No store with 100 miles of me sells Warhammer products below GW prices

>>97492332
Thanks for the reply
>Drop the great weapon on the captain. He already has a magic weapon.
Sword of Sorrow is actually a missile weapon with 30" S5 AP-1 and multiple wounds (2). Something to harass the enemy from turn 1 (BS4)
>Drop the shields from the great weapon vet sellswords.
I've been enjoying my 3+ troops but I'll think about it
>Outriders are cool but I would drop them and get 2 more units of 10 crossbowmen.
Normally, I'd probably do it, but there's a 0-2 limit on core and they can contest objectives from turn 1
>Can that wizard be bumped up to Lv2?
He can but I don't really see the point right now, I wanted a cheap missile platform (doombolt + ruby ring)

>>97492263
I've wrecked renegade crowns with empire twice now and I still don't understand how. On paper they just seem better except maybe not having the steam tank.

>>97486203
of the 3 lgs I frequent only 1 of them has a small corner of tow and they dont do more than a 5 percent discount.

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>>97490798
It is, unironically no one makes better washes than Army Painter now, and they're cheaper as well

>>97491699
Yourdudes knights would be badass. I know I'll get accused of being perryfag but you should really look into 3rd party knights, there are some great ones (pic related)

>>97492452
What Army Painter washes would you recommend?

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>>97490798
the formula changed im still holding into my old big pot, the new one is like water it sucks

>>97492462
Soft tone and strong tone are the two I use for everything. Strong tone is nuln oil with a slightly browner flavor, but they have a black nuln oil equivalent that I forget the name. For fantasy and historical models I don't have much use for pure black wash

>>97492462
nta but dark tone and strong tone will cover 99% of your needs. I like the color ones too for stuff like capes

>>97492452
Those look amazing anon! Where are they from?

My Hochlanders are from a mixture of GW I bought from a nearby LGS as well as Warlord's and Wargames', as I don't have a printer and I don't have easy access to someone else that has one. For the Battle March force the aim is to use what comes down to just one box of knights and one box of Empire archers, and for both I've had a hard time finding good proxies that are easily available to me. There are some new knight ranges that released last year, but I think 3D would be better in this case.

>>97492734
https://steelfistminiatures.com/

>>97492748
Nta but how do they scale?

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>>97492761
does it even matter in TOW?

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>>97492748
Thanks, I'll check them out!

As for my knights, I've been thinking of trying to work with white and black more now that I have much more experience with a good white paint I've found, either primarily white with black crosses, patterns and feathers, or the other way around. The latter appeals to me a lot, but it might be hard to pull off with adding little white crosses on the archers' tunics, for example.

It's probably going to be a little more obviously Teutonic / Hospitaller, but I always liked the idea of seeing those crusaders in that elaborate 1500 full plate armour from Germany (picrel for something similar to what I mean).

I think the Tomb King on bone dragon looks shite - I'd prefer one on foot, but is that a pointless option? Mostly just want it to paint, but no idea whether he really should be mounted or not, or whether the bone horse option is doable

>>97492770
clearly a GOT reference to the mountain

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>>97492877
the sphinx comes with a spare kang too

>>97492770
>norscan in disguise

>>97492770
I wouldn't be against the occasional unnaturally big bloke, but I just cannot suspend my disbelief that this is anything but scale creep.

>>97492770
I don't play TOW. 6th ed minis don't have retard gorilla proportions

>>97493037
Cheers anon, but I was more thinking if it was a viable option to have him on foot, or does he really need to be a mounted lord? I like the look of the on foot ones, and am much less keen on the mounted. Could stick him in with some Tomb Guard?

>>97493514
tomb kings are a top tier army so pretty much everything you do is viable. I usually have my king on dragon and a prince on foot with my tomb guard, when playing 2k points.

>>97493514
Foot lords suffer the eternal curse of "if you invest a lot of points into it, they dont get to do combat because people avoid them". But a foot lord SHOULD be fine. Undead are a solid faction for infantry because they dont break. And TG are pretty decent.

These historical spammers are tiring and it’s the same script every time. Wish Janny niggers would do their jobs.

>>97493881
I'm sorry, but the proxying will commence.

>>97493904
It’s not proxying it’s off topic historical spam. Not once in that historical spam exchange was a single model from fantasy shown. The only off topic models were shown on round bases, so not for any edition of fantasy. Coming from the dude claiming not to be Perry. But showing off historicals on rounds. Janny niggers do your jobs or take a pay cut.

>>97493927
Yet he posted his miniatures that could still be used for fantasy! Or, would you rather only have people buy the official Games Workshop© The Old World™ models? The apes of Middenheim?

>>97494001
You don’t play fantasy perrynigger. You come here to spam your historical vomit because the hist threads here are dead. Not only can you not produce a single timestamped fantasy miniature, you can’t even produce a square base. Because you don’t play and have never played any edition of fantasy, and simply come here to spam.

It’s obvious as you do the same thing every second day. Can you go have a heart attack and make the world a better place.

>>97494020
Absolutely no vril.

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>tfw you just failed a terror test

>actually just spamming
Worthless nigger janitors

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We should turn empires aesthetic into something like dark souls or turnip28

>>97494068
I'm sorry, I'm the one who posted the drawing of a man being scared because I thought it was funny.

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>>97494097
Never, you should literally DIE with your mudcore shitsthetic

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>>97494097
But theres literally nothing connecting dark souls and turnip 28?

Dark souls has a combination of very conventional fantasy aesthetics and very conventional high medieval designs, esoecially for the regular humans. A royal swordsman from DS2 is LITERALLY just a greatsword with a helmet instead of the funny hat.

The reason everything looks decrepit and fucked up in DS is because theyre UNDEAD, because these designs have rotted for hundreds of years as the curse of stagnation and madness eats away at the kingdoms of the setting. The actual kingdoms werent weird mudcore, they were colorful high medieval fantasy kingdoms with very grounded designs for the most part. Thats the horror, that these were once normal functional places and people.

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>>97494165
"man, its such a shame the empire just doesent have armor like this"

Except it does, because this is literally the sort of armor they wear in the empire. The guy looks scary because hes a ZOMBIE. Because he is a mindless remnant of a once noble warrior lashing out at any interlopers in an instinctual rage, driven by an endless hunger for souls. Not because hes got weird armor.

The setting you are looking for is Lords of the Fallen, not Dark Souls (or Demons Souls, or Elden Ring, which have much of the same aesthetic).

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>>97494125
what is it about empire that triggers secondaries so much? If it isn't some inane comment about it literally being the holy roman empire its something about the aesthetic not been fantastical enough or hating on the steam tank. Not sure if its the usual crowd hating on whatever human faction is in a setting or if people are weirdly conflating empire with muh controversial colonialism but its fucking irritating. The Empire is the soul of the game, if you don't like it play something else.

>>97494097
Silly FROMslopper, why do your kind always troon out? Why is Eldensoulsborne so inherently queer-coded?

Reminder to report and not engage samefagging spammers.

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>>97494189
what a wonderful image i wish i was a girl but yeah i love the empire and it is the protagonist of Warhammer.
>>97494208
huge overlap between autism and gender-nonconformism amongst other things idk the details

t. fromslopper

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>>97494125
You can be landsckenct and be mudcore at the same time

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Settra attacked the Border Princes in the middle of a snow storm

Does Warhammer fantasy have anything where Australia supposed to be?

>>97494322
Kino, give us some close ups

>>97494189
its simply just in a boring state. I dont even care if the current empire army gets updated to match its art perfectly, I want the good ol power metal sigmar had in his prime with shirtless barbarians.

>>97494189
Unironically it's trannies and non whites, who seethe about Christian white European supremacy, so any reference to these men in fantasy makes them mald

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I'm gonna be honest, the ONLY way the empire aesthetic could possibly be cooler is if it was based on the Napoleonic French instead of the early Renaissance HRE

>>97494510
The Empire are a pagan nation with zero pretenses of or allusions to monotheism retard

>>97494189
>>97494510
>what is it about empire that triggers secondaries so much?
What are you guys on about secondaries fucking love the empire

>>97494592
They're based on the GERMANIC chads known as the HOLY Roman Empire, whether you like it or not, Shlomo

>>97494591
>could possibly be cooler
I dont think its cool at all to begin with.
>based on the Napoleonic French instead of the early Renaissance
This however, would in fact be mega based.

>historical spam has gone on for hours with 0 Janny intervention
Worthless janitor niggers. No wonder this shithole website is dying.

>>97494591
We can do both.
On the same model.

>>97494608
The holy roman empire that worshipped a barbarian king as some kind of mythical deity

>>97494626
>NOOOOOO I DON'T LIKE THIS CONVERSATION!!!! JANNIES!!!! JANNIES ARREST THOSE GUYS AT ONCE!!!!!
What a truly pathetic existence

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>>97494591
Based and Hussard pilled

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>>97492263
I have tried sword of sorrows for 3 games now with a Skaven Master Assassin (bs7) of all bloody things. -(since I thought oh shit it's sort of a shitty modern way of doing warp stars)

still not sold on it due to the ap -1 meaning it bounces off any target massed shitty shooting would.

what's your ideal target? I tried shooting at chariots to get value from the multiwound.

would 10 more naked crossbows achieve similiar?

>>97493881
>>97494626
This may surprise (You), anon, but traditionally the genre of fantasy has always shared a lot of overlap with the enjoyment of history. All the major fantasy pioneers and authors were historians or history enthusiasts, and this is especially true in Warhammer Fantasy when you look at all the people who created it, from the lore to the rules, aesthetic design choices, etc. were all histfags. Priestly, Stillman, Perries, Johnson, etc.
Again, this might blow your mind, but MAYBE, just perhaps, some of the anons ITT that enjoy wh fantasy also enjoy history and they are able to draw inspiration from both and they can recognize the hobbies aren't mutually exclusive.

The real problem ITT isn't the people talking about historical influences, it's your dumb ass schizo rambling shitting up the thread every time someone mentions something you don't like.

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>>97492770
6' vs 5'11".

Is this place unmoderated? You'd think this would be pretty open and shut spamming at this point.

>>97494945
basically, yes

Did previous editions, ideally 6th, have Armies of Infamy-like army compositions that gave rules/items but with restrictions?
My group is exploring doing some homebrew for Legacy factions and it'd be convenient to have something to pull from directly.
Things like book expansions or White Dwarf etc...

>>97494738
Im almost certain it's the same retard who would spam PERRYFAG PERRYFAG if you said something he didn't agree with, usually if mentioned proxies, historicals or criticized TOW. Notice how that poster got banned a few weeks back with their posts deleted, and since then the perryfag accusations spam has nearly disappeared. In its place an obsession with "historical trolls" has arisen. But the same pathetic appeal to jannies and schizo accusations.

Dude is a serious loner with no life.

>>97494954
Yes, they were called Appendix armies and they were based as fuck. Not every army book had one but Empire and VC had some flavorful and fun lists.

>>97494954
yes, at the end of most 6ed armybook there were alternative rules for an army

but they were not really meant to be balanced, so they can be quite bad or too good

>>97494965
Shut up perrynigger.

>>97495007
He's not perrynigger, I am.

>>97494327
Lost Isles of Elithis or Lumbria

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>>97494970
>>97494973
Thanks anons. We have to start somewhere for ideas

>>97495064
lumbria is just an in-setting misidentification of lustria

you're thinking lemuria, maybe

>>97495130
Lemuria doesn't exist in the Warhammer world

Having to wait until Adepticon for more news is lame. Wish they would hurry up with the releases. Not to sound like a paypig but I’m waiting on Kislev and ive literally already waited years

>>97495153
Of course it does, it's where giant pygmies come from, silly.

>>97495186
>I’m waiting on Kislev
you'll probably have to wait way more, next in line is a second wave of chaos models.

>>97495186
They will run out of news for 40k stuff before Adepticon, so we might get more TOW news before then.
WFRP 5e should be releasing soon as well

>>97495206
Yeah I am sadly aware. At least it should be this year.

>>97495208
That’s probably true but at the same time they still have to release the new Cathay stuff before chaos before Kislev.

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>>97495153

>>97495257
Well, MU can't be a Warhammer fantasy continent

>>97495130
>>97495272
mu is in the pacific, lemuria is in the indian ocean
and neither is australia

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>>97495323
what about this?
>red: australia
>orange: new zealand
>green and blue: the same continent that periodically sinks into the ocean and emerges in the other location because it's actually the mother of all dragon turtles

>>97495323
Lemuria was imagined as connecting Australia, Madagascar, and southern India.

>>97495400
Are dragon turtles a thing in Warhammer Fantasy?

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>>97495582
A bit.

>>97495582
>>97495646
>>97495400
Okay now I'm thinking of The Last Airbender in the world of Warhammer fantasy not the first time I done something from another country and we'll have a fantasy I done Pinky and the Brain gets transferred there and some people from Ultimate Muscle gets transported there with AI just to entertain myself,

>>97495646
Is the bottom left image from Dreadfleet?

>>97495646
Midright looks fuckin' rad. It's like all the best parts of goofy 80s fantasy, w/ 2004 "just put a buncha spikes on it and it's punkrock!" I love it so much.

>>97495683
yeah terrain feature

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>>97495683
ye
I still don't get how big these ships are meant to be

>>97495798
Its not "accurate" most likely. But the bloody reaver is a literal castle kept afloat through magic (with a bunch of stuff stuck to it).

Its like the worlds smallest and shittiest black ark.

>>97495798
I would have taken a literal flying ship over the mortis engine.

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>>97495798
Yes yes Dreadfleet is cool and all but what about Warmaster?

>>97495865
I'm kinda surprised Dreadfleet didn't have any Dark Elf representation in it, but did have an Araby ship

>>97495886
I saw that Warmaster Revolution have moved to doing Man O War rules now

>>97495886
Boo, boo I say. 28mm 4 lyfe, 6mmfags (or is it 15mm? I honestly don't know) go and stay go. I don't care how good your rules are, I like painting my models so I don't want them to be smaller.

>>97495891
A black ark would have kinda clashed with the bloody reaver being there. Daniel and cooler daniel stuff.

Plus it also had no chaos representation either. A lot of the villain ships were from more obscure or random factions. I suspect this was intentional.

>>97495886
I would prefer legion imperialis to get some actual diversity in it before warmaster coming back.

>>97495904
The Araby ship is the Chaos representation since the Golden Magus was a Chaos sorcerer

>>97495904
the bloody reaver shouldn't have been a thing in the first place, there's already a ghost ship

>>97495904
>>97495919
Oi, skaven? CHAOS dwarfs?

>>97495923
The bloody reaver isnt a ghost ship. And the bloody reaver is very cool and works as a suitably imposing "big villain" vessel. Its a classical "vampires evil castle" aesthetic transported onto a naval setting.

>>97495931
The skaven are undead in that one. And the chorf representation is a rogue engineer from a normal dwarf hold.
Meanwhile ManOWar had all sorts of crazy chaos ships, flying tzeench things, giant mechanical monsters that ate people, chaos lords firing laser beams... it was pretty nifty.

>>97495931
Skaven were undead in dreadfleet and the chorf was not a normal chorf but an outcast from the mainline dwarfs.

>>97495940
Also, on the topic of the bloody reaver and not belonging.

A point of the entire story is that thats kind of the case. Nautilius (not his real name iirc) was a minor and not very important vampire count who did a strange and unusual thing (turning his castle into a ship). The bloody reaver SHOULDNT have been a thing, thats why its so fun. Its an unexpected villain leading a band of random fuck ups from other unexpected sources and being stopped by a misfit crew of pirates and an elf whos there for reasons.

How neckbeardy is your LGS?

>>97495945
yeah it's meant to be sartosans rather than man'o' war factions

>>97496036
The LGS varies depending on the who’s game night it is. Any TCG nights as a rule are pretty bad, Pokémon being the exception as it’s a younger crowd. In terms of GW games, the 40k crowd is the neckbeardiest/sweatiest by far. AoS is a mix of boomers and social reject degenerates (colored hair as an example). TOW is mostly middle class boomers and adults in their late 20’s/30’s. We do have two really fat guys who play so that maybe counts for you as neckbeardy. Although other than ordering food to the store they don’t act like gross neckbeards. The MESBG group is like all normal boomers with like 2 guys who joined recently in their 20’s (one of whom is me)

>>97496036
not really at all. my city has 2 big FLGS and they're both pretty modern and clean.

there was another one that was a musty hole in the wall with a crowd of bearded ogres who never seemed to not be in the shop. it went out of business though due to low sales and low foot traffic (turns out having an unwelcoming smelly shop and catering to grogs who dont spend money is a bad idea).

>>97495886
Honestly I always found it kinda boring. With 40K "zooming out" to Epic scale brings in all sorts of awesome new units and mechanics and playstyles, but Warmaster is just Warhammer with all the fun stuff taken out in exchange for being a medicore "command & control" type system.

>>97495798
does this play like battlefleet gothic? I fucking love bfg.

>>97496211
The two main LGSs in my area are close to this. I'd say the TCG nights, especially anything involving the MTG crowd specifically, are by far the worst for anti-social and autistic behaviour, with 40k nights being the runner-up. The only other difference is that the AoS scene at one store collapsed because the owner went on the warpath after a tranny got a little too handsy with a kid.

>>97496036
One in my city almost exclusively caters to neckbeards. It's disgusting.
The other two are pretty good though. They basically don't have any ever from the times I've been there. They do feel way too loose on rules though as well, like one guy who never used a measuring tape but just eyeballed everything from movement to attack ranges.
I avoid all of them like the plague. I only play at the local university club which has been running since early 2000s and still has 5 of the original members. About 20 people regularly show up, but the majority are 40k or kill team. Only 6 of us play fantasy in any degree, and 3 of those only play OPR which I'm not directly opposed too, but don't particularly like either.

What's the point in Heralds of Darkness? You can reroll 1s on charges but in return you just take a fuck load of extra necessary stuff, seems a shit tradeoff.

>>97496636
There isnt one. Its a really bad list.

The issue is that the HoD "playstyle" is (or certainly WAS) the optimal way to play the faction as it is. So making an army of infamy which would do that but better would have been just a replacement for the base army. Which is presumably why its so underwhelming and conditional.

Personally? I would have played into the fear theme knights had in previous editions. Make it unmarked (obligatory) and then give knights fear/-1LD aura or whatever. Or alternatively if they want to do the retinue thing, make marks free one way or the other (or make knight chosen core if you take a lord/exalted champion on horseback)

>>97496651
Another way to fix the list is to remove the fucking dragons. All characters MUST be either on a chaos steed, demonic mount or chariot. But in return all cavalry and chariots in the army get to reroll charges or add an extra d3 to charges or some other moderately significant buff. Maybe give them furious charge for the funsies.

Also make the obsidian dread glaive actually good, either by giving it monster slayer or by making it Ap-3 or something.

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>>97496036
I can really only say I’ve assimilated to two of the lgs since my time moving, and it’s pretty fucking bad with that demographic. The cleanest looking guy looks like asmongold on a very good day, I usually joke about it, but beyond that I can’t find it within me to describe the rest. The tow scene almost got ruined when some guy brought his child custody issues to the LGs when he brought his kid there when he wasn’t supposed to or something, and the police got really involved. The other one that’s unfortunately a little bit farther away from me just has fat people but they’re generally jolly group. They fucking eat a lot at the store though, which I think is gross.

>>97496714
I don’t know why fat people think eating at the store is ok. Just fucking don’t eat for like 3-5 hours you lardasses

>>97496754
For the same reason people think eating at a game at someones house is okay, I would assume.

Sure, its not a challenge to avoid eating for the 5~ hours youre playing and then the 2~ hours of travel there and back. But its a question of "why would you inconvenience yourself, however mildly". Youre not attending some grave matter but a game you partake in for your own leisure (in a shop that often sells food and drinks anyways). So why would you not? Why have a late dinner when you can simply grab a bite while youre there?

When people say neckbeard is it just refering to appearance or behavior too?
IIRC wasn't neckbeard used as an insult for guys that sperged regarding nerdy shit and rule lawyered like crazy, being condescending and having bad social skills etc.

>>97496825
Its a behavioral insult with a visual stereotype attached.
Its not for no reason, theres a likely correlation between people who are in bad shape and take poor care of their physical appearance/grooming and pathetic behavior in various traditional games, but the insult is specifically there because of the behavior, and not because theyre ugly people in the otherwise attractive and fit community that is warhammer/dnd/magic the gathering.

>>97496754
I hate when people bring food to the game store. Eating their pizza right on the table next to my books and miniatures.

>>97496802
For the sake of propriety you clown

>>97497035
So "no reason" then. Your LGS is not the theater, it is not the opera, it is not a place of high culture and decorum.

>>97497040
>not the theater, it is not the opera, it is not a place of high culture and decorum
So you only act civilized and polite in certain public settings but not others? I am not saying you need to wear a suit to go to the LGS. I am simply saying you shouldn't stuff your face for the few hours you decide to go to the LGS.

Eat at home prior to arriving. Throw a scoop of whey into a shaker and take a water bottle. Leave it in your car and mix them and chug it if you really need to fill your stomach mid way through an LGS day.

In civil settings for tournaments, time is allotted at points in the day so that participants can retire for a meal in the middle of the day. They don't have people eating by the tables.

>>97497073
>So you only act civilized and polite in certain public settings but not others?
I do not wear fancy dress to go see a movie and I do not eat popcorn at the opera.
The LGS is neither of those places.

The LGS is a place where you go to play for fun, it is not a setting of decorum or propriety, there is no obligation to inconvenience yourself in whatever way minor or major to play there. If you in particular have some psychological issue with others eating at the LGS you should voice it, and then get told to shut up because those places often sell food for a reason.

>eat before you depart
Might not be in your schedule, might not be hungry then.

>goyslop from a cup
Whatever works for you anon.

>They don't have people eating by the tables.
They very much can and do. You can absolutely eat by the table (instead of some designated eating area if there is one), nor are you even forced to go eat (or prevented from eating outside of that time while im listing things)! The lunch period at events exists for organizational reasons, to ensure that play is not disrupted in a scenario where games need to continue and resolve in an orderly manner.

Ultimately, the act needs very little justifying because there is no obligation being broken, you are doing a thing for fun in a casual context, it is a leisure activity which is generally performed in as comfortable a manner as possible.

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Anyone have the assembly instructions for the nurgle Rotswords?

>>97497339
Get it from Reddit.

>>97497350
It isn't there, GW hound dogs the instruction reddit for stuff that is too new

>>97496915
I personally agree that it's a little bit gross to bring food to a store and as such I never eat anything while I'm at an event, I suppose it would be acceptable provided everyone washed their hands before they resumed play. If you're going to eat, fine, but don't touch your models until your hands are clean!

after the peasants, what are the chances for another cathay wave this year?

Is this TK/WE box/refresh based on anything substantial or not? Want to work out whether I should wait or not to have a go at TK

>>97497755
French youtuber who also called the faq's iirc

>>97497722
this year? zero

>>97497755
if the box is really coming in summer, than I will propably announced in march during adepticon. I think you should at least wait till then.

>>97497967
*it will propably be

>>97497755
>>97497871
Yeah they leaked a bunch of other things. Other than the box they are 21/22 correct.

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Sisters anon here. I finished 20 Sisters in 2 1/2 days of work. I only got bad pictures because my Goyphone died and the new one only arrives in a few more days.

>>97497755
I wouldn't bet on it this year, at best you are still looking at a September release.

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Oh yes, its coming together

Lafs, I am getting tired of stirland mud for basing. What alternatives are there in GW brand?

>>97498318
Why gw brand? .. use something like krautcover instead

>>97498318
ak or vallejo have big pots for all your basing needs

>>97492167
Are Empire clockwork cherubs canon

>>97495940
The Bloody Reaver was fine, the Heldenhammer on the other hand was lame
>the Empire flagship
>just a big ship
>no cool engineer weapons, just a big silly hammer
>not even a crew of angry sigmarite priests and templars, just a bunch of gay sartosan pirates whose only contribution is "dying a lot"
Literally mogged by every other ship in the game

>>97498450
Isn't that mostly due to Roth stealing the ship from Altdorf before it was finished, since he was a hurry and Volkmar refused to help him?

>>97498462
I dont remember him asking. He just stole it.

The big empire ship being a normal ship with at most a hammer on the front was fine though, even if it was too big.

>>97498450
the Heldenhammer was the buffest ship in the game and the pneumatic hammer was a one shot for most other ships, did you play the game?