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DEUS VULT!

>>97503256
>DEUS VULT
>ALLAHU AKBAR
>???
wtf do jews say?

>>97499820
>they were hoping to starve the players of those games into playing WoD5. It didn't pan out obviously but that was the logic.
I don't get this line of logic. It's not like just because there's no more new books coming the old ones vanish in a puff of smoke?

Sure it's sad that there won't be new books for my favourite lines (except Awakening 2e, the quality was going down with each release, but the old ones are still there and I can use them to run games forever if I want to, especially because the 1e books + the 2e cores (when good) give me complete gamelines.

Hell given how much urban horror/urban fantasy material there is out there for TTRPGs in general I could run a whole Chronicle by adapting i dunno, DG Operations for Vigil or even Forsaken, or I could do something insane and try to adapt Masks to Awakening.

It's also why I don't see much point in wasting energy hating on say V5 beyond aknowledging it's not for me on moving on.

>>97503268
oy vey

I was going to say something but then I forgot.

New question. How do you yes YOU personally make Fortitude and Potence more interesting in your chronicles? If not playing Vampire, then the equivalent “extra soak/extra punch” abilities?

>>97503306
I just take the powers from V5 as devotions if I need something extra.

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>>97503098
>how would you save it
Remake 1st edition oWoD using the Exalted Essence system as a point of reference. Then take the old, pre 2nd edition Ghenna stuff, and flesh out and update it with cleaner writing and more vagueities and less 4th and 5th gen vampires being immediately apparent in the plot. Detail that these characters do exist, but only give them motivations, goals, rivals, weaknesses, strengths, blind spots, and generally make it so that there are numerous equally supported possibilities for the true nature of all of this. As in, maybe noddism is true, or maybe vampirism itself is actually just an alien parasite, or maybe Caine is real but noddism isn’t, etc. Leave the meta plot in the background for the ST and players to work out, make ancient unknowable things very real and present, but really hinge on that “unknowable” part. It is the world of darkness, after all. It should not be contained or explained anywhere at any time.

And then assuming that works, do the same thing with Werewolf, then Mage, then Changeling, then Demon. But make it so that they share design documentation and space, so that cross-splat is possible with minimal effort. Make it a cohesive, dysfunctional world. And make absolutely zero attempt to reign that in and simply let each splat excel or even exceed others in certain areas while really highlighting and honing in where each splat is weak and can’t mess with the others beyond just fog of war. Finally, I would make sure Demon is less of a vindication of Noddism and Caine and Abrahamism and make it very clear that you do not remember what you even were, with each Fallen having antediluvian memories that closely match whatever religion they represent, leaving it entirely confusing as to whether any of it happened, all of it happened, or if it even matters anymore, while also tying it and them strongly into the other splats.

Also I’d include lots of sexy goth and punk and alt and boss bitches in all the art.

>>97503098
>If you were in charge of the IP with unrestricted control how would you revive it?
Build on 20th Anniversary.

>>97501419
>Is there anything that can even beat a hypothetical all spheres/arcana at 10 mage?
Rape.

>>97502903
Who are they?

>>97502191
>>97502763
I got one story too. Not sure if I ever told it on /tg/ or anywhere else. Problem is that I don’t have time to write it today (at least not during work or during my DnD game). Someone should bring it up if I forget to post it.

Continuing a conversation from the last thread I was too late to join, WHY do garou despise the elderly among them? You'd think anyone who survived the high-lethality lifestyle of the garou long enough to start having grey hairs would be respected for their hardiness and the wisdom accumulated from their experiences.

>>97503306
Why do they need to be more interesting? Just roleplay that shit, shrugging off bullets and being able to punch a man so hard his shadow is burned into the wall behind him is cool enough.

>>97503641
It is a warrior society and they are all required to fight against the agents of the Wyrm in order to prevent the Apocalypse, which could happen at any moment now. Keeping an elderly werewolf who is no longer physically able alive is a waste of resources that could go towards keeping physically active werewolves fighting fit. If the elder has done his duty, he has already passed along his knowledge to those younger and more able than him. If the elder is worthy, he will live on as an ancestral spirit in the Umbra once he passes.

An elder who clings to life after he no longer has anything to offer his sept and only takes from it is selfish. An elder who holds his own wisdom hostage so that he will always has something to offer his sept and they will always have a reason to waste resources on him is manipulative, on top of being selfish.

>>97503641
Old people smell weird. Now imagine you have super senses. There you go.

>>97503641
Someone posted an answer to this question already, it's cause they're usually past their prime and it's no longer safe for them to really fight. Garou seem to not value wisdom and experience too much in their war really since chatting with Great Grandpa Wounded-Knee-Veteran is a free action even if it's just a lot of nonsense that he's saying

>>97503735
>Garou seem to not value wisdom and experience too much in their war really
And then they wonder why they're losing.

>>97503602
>Who are they?
setites who decided that the set and his church are stupid and they just would choose the cool kids option: party hard and corruption for shit and giggles they pretty much abbandon serpentis as a religous tool for setite sorcery paths that curse people including two of the paths you mentioned and a third unique one called The Revelations of Eden which removes temporary willpower of the target and let's you mess with their nature and demeanor and chill on the road of sin instead of the road of set

they finished off the trinity of constantinople, again pretty much for shit and giggles and because micheal said they wouldn't be able to and have the only known setite prince as the childe of their founder runs sydney

>>97503735
>Garou seem to not value wisdom and experience too much
They do, but they don't value people who hoard that wisdom and experience and eventually die without having shared all of it. An elder who truly serves the Garou Nation will share everything that he knows with it and won't take anything with him to the grave when he dies.

Also, the worthy dead manifest in the Umbra as ancestor spirits who can still be consulted for their wisdom and their advice, which makes living receptacles of wisdom less valuable.

>>97503306
I talk alot more shit when I get hit being able to just shrug it off then I would. My fellow players will in fact feel the wrath of 'Never punished' in every campaign.

>>97503098
>If you were in charge of the IP with unrestricted control how would you revive it?

Kill all this weird ass V5th and Nu-WoD shit, Return to 20th and move the plot somewhat head.

Stop hiring the lowest tier fucking authors for everything and sit down with like 1 'head' in charge of each splat and work out where its going/how its to go.

Bring back the rightful Discplines of the Vampires. Fuck you, killing Obten like that.

>>97503804
>Grandpa can you take care of the cubs soon the wife is really stressed
>I think not child, the C4 vest calls for me today so that they may ask me questions about the Ahrouns in a few years time
Being irresponsible is part of the Garou genetics

>>97503098
>TQ
Publish Shadowcity: Blood & Neon as VTM.

>>97503865
Childcare is what the Kinfolk are for.

>>97503641
Responsible resource management and long-term planning is of the weaver therefore it's bad. Having the old spend their remaining time raising (and indoctrinating) they young? Nah, get out there and die like your ancestors did, it's totally gonna make a difference this time!

>>97503877
And Gaian m*tts wonder why their children hate them and the Kinfolk leave them

>>97503881
>raising (and indoctrinating) they young?
It's literally an apocalyptic cult, not unlike evangelical Christianity. The world is always on the verge of ending, you need to be ready for the Rapture which will totally happen within your lifetime. Raising children properly and planning for the future comes second to being ready for the Apocalypse which will be on your doorstep any day now. The Garou Nation can't afford to plant trees under which they will never sit because they need to fight the Wyrm right now. And there's some value in that, because if the Garou did nothing to slow the Wyrm down, there would've been an Apocalypse a lot time ago. So the whole "we need to fight so that we're ready for the Apocalypse when it happens" is actually a self-cancelling prophecy.

>>97503942
Grandpa still doesn't need to die in a pointless sacrifice that accomplishes nothing before his hip gives out and he starts needing a cane fetish though

>>97503958
Except he might actually accomplish something in his final blaze of glory and the werewolves do objectively need to spend less resources on keeping infirm werewolves alive if they off themselves before they reach that state. Less of a problem now, more of a problem in the past, though even in the modern era, a housebound elder might still occasionally maul his Kinfolk carers in bouts of rage.

It's a flawed rule of the Litany and it's meant to be, in order to give the players yet another aspect of Garou culture that they need to try and fix. However, there are reasons why it came to exist and it's not quite as retarded as it's being made out to be in this conversation.

>>97503992
I agree but unless an Elder has dementia (unlikely except for a Silver Fang) they'd still could be quite useful in teaching others of the nation without engaging in coinflippy risk taking. It's just another part of WtA though, it is what it is.

>>97503942
>Raising children properly and planning for the future comes second to being ready for the Apocalypse which will be on your doorstep any day now
Why not have the old prepare the next generation of cannon fodder? Any good army needs to be trained and properly supplied. They've been fighting the wyrm for a long time, I'm sure they understand the need for planning at least a week ahead. Kinfolk make the money and interact with humans, the old make sure the brainwashing is there and everyone else does the whole fighting bit. Division of labour would let them optimize their whole operation. Any successful cult understands that people are resources to be used. They drank too much flavour aid to realise that their unwillingness to change is their biggest enemy.

>>97503873
Alright, I'll bite.
Sell me on the game, anon.

>>97504014
>Nu cannon fodder instinctively know what to do
>Nu cannon fodder can always ask Great Great Gandpa Genocide for some info
>Nu cannon fodder has super powers
Admittedly I think it would be helpful, but much of WoD simply isn't running on real world logic and that's fine.

>>97504014
>>97504048
>>97504011

You guys are both forgetting something silly here.

Even if Grandpa takes himself for Holy Jihad, Praise be upon his rank. You can still summon his spirit if you REALLY gotta ask him anything unless his been put back into the oven. So theres no real reason to need them around or care for them or have them raise kids when they can do that post-death and usefulness to physcial gaia.

>>97504014
>Why not have the old prepare the next generation of cannon fodder?
The next generation of cannon fodder will not be needed if the Apocalypse happens tomorrow and unless they are limited to training teenagers who have just gone through their First Change, there's always the chance that the elders might accidentally kill the prospects in a rage. An infirm werewolf is still a werewolf, all it takes is a yet-to-change Kinfolk kid standing too close when his grandpa is in a bad mood and suddenly, his head is quite literally bitten off. This suggestion involves putting the retired killing machines in charge of childcare and I'm just not sure about the wisdom of that.
>>97504011
The Garou response to that is that a good elder would have already taught the younger generations of his tribe everything that they need to know before he reaches the age of uselessness, but it's a valid point. In the current age, in which keeping the infirm fed and housed isn't all that costly any more, there's nothing wrong with keeping physically incapable werewolves around as rite leaders and educators of Garou fresh out of their First Change. It's just a case of convincing the traditionalists to abandon the old ways and that maybe the Apocalypse isn't happening tomorrow and that the Garou should think a little harder about the actual future and a little less about the end of the world.

But putting Garou Grandpa in charge of teaching Kinfolk children, especially Kinfolk children who will actually become werewolves, is just going to end in a lot of dead kids.

>>97504065
This is true but a spirit can never help emotionally or physically the same way a still living elderly Garou can with kinfolk or children. Yeah he can be summoned as a spirit and watch over you or something, but he's fundamentally different now and more of a caricature than a complex creature. On top of that, I think having Patriarchal or Matriarchal figures that used to command emotional and physical respect like that might be very helpful to keeping Garou families more stable and functional even if said Patriarchs are bound to be chuds with regressive views. At this point though, I'm arguing with headcanon and imagination based on real life like some Marauder so I can admit that things probably wouldn't work out that way in WoD. Like some anon said, it's just an aspect of the nation for the players to change so that Grandfather Garand-Thumb doesn't kill himself trying to have one last hero moment for no reason. I'm not saying having elderly Garou around actually contributing to family stability would help or hinder the war against the Apocalypse, but it would certainly be an interesting idea to explore.

I really can't believe that the Werewolf fans took the bait again.

>>97504072
I think Elderly Garou would know better than to act on their rage like that so suddenly and considering that few manifestations of rage are actual Crinos murder in the books I don't think there would actually be that many dead kids. Either way, Rage isn't something that builds up from idle nonsense the way kids are it's a bit more complicated. Yeah it's a little bit risky but is it any more risky than having most Garou being raised by effectively single mothers/fathers or being drafted into a doom cult as teenagers? A lot about the Nation isn't exactly wise or well thought because the apocalypse COULD, not necessarily will, happen within the next few years. Besides, until an elderly Garou becomes senile there's not more risk than just a regular Garou, only you would think their rage tempered by a long life. I guess that also just isn't how Garou are written, they're boastful and prideful even into encroaching dementia

>>97504116
>Honest question about the role of older generations in WtA
>This is bait
Not every point of discussion is bait anon, have your (you)

>>97503268
Your Apr is at 35%

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>>97504125
It's enough of a health hazard that even adult Kinfolk who know how to behave around Garou know that their lives are at risk. Werewolves are supernaturally angry killing machines and they just shouldn't be trusted around children, even if elders likely have a better handle on their rage than younger Garou. If werewolves can't be trusted to not lose their shit around their loved ones, I don't think they can be trusted to serve as Sunday school teachers.

>>97504163
I always took the Kinfolk book with a grain of salt. It is... bleak... one might say

>>97503098
>If you were in charge of the IP with unrestricted control how would you revive it?
If the goal is to do things my way with no regard for fans or profit, I'd make a ghost line (similar but different enough from Wraith: the Oblivion) as the "baseline"/flagship game.
If the goal is to make a profit, I'd probably just pander to the Vampire: the Masquerade crowd.

Also, each tribe has their own typical interpretations of each law of the Litany, including this one.

>Black Furies
They abide by it regarding old age, but not regarding crippling wounds suffered in battle.
>Bone Gnawers
As long as a Bone Gnawer can survive on their own in the streets, any physical or mental illness they suffer is tolerated, or even celebrated.
>Children of Gaia
They basically say "fuck the Litany" regarding this rule and care for all of their sick, crippled and elderly.
>Fianna
They abide by it, full stop.
>Get of Fenris
It's a last resort, if they have no choice. If someone is able to perform their duty in some capacity, they're allowed to live.
>Glass Walkers
Those who are unable to fight are allowed to retire. As long as they have the resources to make it happen, they can live out the rest of their days peacefully wherever they like.
>Red Talons
They abide by it, full stop.
>Shadow Lords
They step it up. Anyone incapable of doing their duty, no matter the reason, gets removed. They do not suffer uselessness.
>Silver Fangs
They abide by it in theory, but they do not recognise the madness that comes with a long reign as sickness, unless it's so apparent that it can't be denied.
>Uktena
They abide by it, though they often wait so long that they have to euthanise truly incapable elders.
>Wendigo
They abide by it, full stop.

>>97504230
>If the goal is to do things my way with no regard for fans or profit, I'd make a ghost line (similar but different enough from Wraith: the Oblivion) as the "baseline"/flagship game.
An unconventional decision. Would you like to tell me more about it? Why start with ghosts as the baseline?

>>97504364
>Metis Makers Fianna
>Abiding by the Litany full stop
I don't know about this, but it's certainly an interesting interpretation. I generally agree I would say
>>97504402
NTA, but starting metaphysics and fantasy from the underworld first sounds like a solid approach. WoD was also first conceived using Wraith before releasing Vampire first iirc

>>97504430
They abide by the "do not suffer thy people to tend to thy sickness" law of the Litany, in case I didn't make it clear that I was talking about that in particular.

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>>97504402
>Why start with ghosts as the baseline?
Ghosts are the classic, cross-cultural "monster". And each culture has a slight variation on them. Even when they are non-threatening, there is something scary about ghosts.
They are a presence of what is absent, frightful reminders of tragedy and loss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1zbLW4YtIk

>>97503992
That's kind of the joke and point.

>Getting old
Couldn't be me

>>97504718
Being 467 pounds is my angel card

>>97504718
Drone or v*mpire, call it

>>97504784
Too much personality for a drone, must be a filthy Cainite

>>97503268
>Shalome.

>>97504364
I always love the Glass Walker one.

"Uncle, You still able to pay rent?"
"Wolf noises"
"Understood, Enjoy retirement until you run out of money and have to be put down."

>>97504784
What if it's a vampire drone?

>>97504991
Glass Walkers typically contribute to a retirement fund whenever they know that one of their own is on their way out, so they rarely have to follow that law of the Litany. Almost every Glass Walkers that reaches retirement likely has enough connections and the right Gifts to generate significant passive income anyway.

>>97505086
GWchads can't stop winning.

>>97505086
>>97505118
>tfw retiring to some italian village with your domestic kinfolk servant woman
They really do keep winning

>>97505184
>elderly Glass Walker mob boss who still hits like a truck and commands an army of kinfolk mobsters, lesser garou and mortal thugs
Welp, I know what I'm throwing at my players next.

>>97505191
>Come to me on the day of my daughters wedding, A leech. Pray tell why I should not ruin your wyrm tainted blood across the streets?

This talk about woof elderly inspired me with my ronin woof concept Lemon Wolf. Another thing to add to the list of stuff to rebel against.

I think I’d translate it with the mentor merit, with an old garou that was inspired by Lemon and chose to break that part of the litany to support his changes to the system.

>>97501467
just because they have ten in all spheres doesn't mean they have a spell active

>>97505218
>Look how Pentex massacred my boy...
>*camera pans to a dismembered, grossly mutated body

>>97503268
They just cry out as they stab you

>>97505228
That would be interesting but I imagine as well older werewolves just get depressed that their legs don't work like they used to. Kind of an interesting situation
>>97505355
>grossly mutated
Won't be the only thing gross about it after the Fomori had their fun

>>97503268
If you want a serious answer:
>Chazak v’ematz!
Or:
>Be strong and courageous!

>>97505355
Checked, and understandable.

>>97505374
I like to imagine that it would also add to the struggle of establishing a new faction if you have to spare some of the few resources you have on the elderly

>>97503098
>If you were in charge of the IP with unrestricted control how would you revive it?

Id basically just fill in my homebrew & take out the little parts I dont like.

Go back to 20th Anniversary base.

Develop Mummy a whole lot more

Develop Demon too.

Make more Cyber/Tech elements into Wyvr. Borrow from the God Machine stuff where something like a local Starbucks might be completely artificial & the employees are NPC puppets on filament spider strings. Stuff where if you look behind the curtain you find out its all astroturf & fake shit.

Make more of a separation between Gaia & the Wyld. Change WtA in a lot of small ways. Id give them a third faction of Litany breakers that arent Black Spirals. Bring in some elements of Forsaken, & really play up the shapeshifting & spirits.

Replace Mage with Dark Age rules. Turn the Technocracy into evil wealthy elitists robbing the world of magic to make their own lives easier & to put them on top of the pile. They are using stolen magic, they are not properly awakened themselves & they are equally envious of Traditions while disparaging them for being left behind.

Lessen the Metaplot. Stuff is happening in the highest levels, but the middle ground & street level is up to individual tables to decide.

Make Hunters closer to Vigil & consolidate all the separate Hunter/Inquisition books together.

Make a Frankenstien splat similar to Promethean but make it more inviting to play. Maybe even just fold them into Mummy? Not sure.

Really push snake cults & serpents being evil & tied to Lillith/Lucifer & the fall of man.

I just realized how fast this general is compared to other shit like 5e

I guess this place is really the last bastion for owod fans (i dunno if cofd fans have other places)

>>97505440
>Develop Demon too.

Are we talking DtF or DtD? Cause man, would be wild to finally have some good Fallen food.

Please help, I have 1 dot of faith left and nobody else is out of the abyss more.

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>>97503098
there's no salvaging this shitshow of an IP

>>97505431
This is a fair point too, any faction you're going to cook will end up with quite a bit of difficulties like that

>>97505463
Fallen. I would have Fallen have three factions, the redeemer who feel like theyve learned their lesson & want to do better, the Lucifer loyalists who still hate humanity, & the guys who just want to be out of the fucking Abyss & hopefully never go back. Id make the demon part more fractured & the personality blending with that of the human they embodied. Call it stupid, but I think it would be interesting to actually use the Wraith, Shadow mechanic with Demon instead. Imagine having a literal Demon on your shoulder telling youbto do fucked up shit for advantage. The human & demon kind of need to copilot & if the demon assumes direct control then they trigger their apocalypse form.

>>97504364
>four out of eleven tribes properly follow the "cull the dead weight" law to the letter
>four out of eleven tribes significantly bend the "cull the dead weight" law
>three out of eleven tribes basically don't follow the "cull the dead weight" law at all
Is there a point in having a Litany at all if not even the majority of tribes follow it to the letter?

Are the Technocracy's Devices listed or collated anywhere or do I just need to pull from every fuckin book ever written on the subject?

>>97505549
https://www.scribd.com/document/941684274/eBook-RPG-White-Wolf-Mage-the-Ascension-Technocratic-Device-List

>>97505549
Just make shit up, anon.

>>97505537
How many tribes actively make Metis because they're horny gooners? All of them, litany is a meme

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>>97503098
>If you were in charge of the IP with unrestricted control how would you revive it?
Might as well use this an excuse to post my ideas for Wraith
>dial back the scale of Stygia, making it more of an underworld bureaucracy like in Beetlejuice, most Wraiths operate in the Shadowlands
>ditch Guilds because they're boring and they suck, Legions are your main splat option, though it's more of a set of traits determined by how your Wraith died and doesn't necessitate actual membership in a Legion
>Legions are the three letter agencies of the afterlife responsible for reaping and enforcing the Dictum Mortuum, Wraiths don't automatically spawn in the Underworld so the Legions' duties often take them to the Skinlands
>to account for this certain Arcanoi that allow a Wraith to interact with the skinlands should become intrinsic abilities and Risen would be much more common
>also give Arcanoi some unique mechanics so they're not just Disciplines again, no idea what they could do though
>Soulforging is still a thing but it's significantly less grimderp, Relics and Plasms are abundant enough in the underworld that it's not necessary to Soulforge for basic resources and it's more often used as a punishment or a last ditch effort to prevent a Wraith from becoming a Spectre
>Soulforging can also produce complex items with multiple parts from a single Wraith if they have enough Pathos and an emotional connection to what they're being Soulforged into, i.e a gun nut can be forged into a fully functional firearm
>expand on Mediums as a Ghoul/Kinfolk style sidekick splat
>keep Renegades and Heretics more or less the same, just flesh them out so they're not as generic
>no idea whether I want to ditch the shadowguiding system or not, on one hand it's the most unique and interesting mechanic Wraith has, on the other it's kind of a shitty mechanic that isn't fun to play in 90% of situations

>>97505537
the litany is mostly there for garou to eat each other faces over it like nearly tribe book has a member trying to rules lawyer they way out of the litany and a not small number of red talons flat out don't think that their tribe signed it

the only people who really care about it are abomination because breaking it is a sin in their morality system

>>97505441
"And the full sum of the earth's living will come and live in the Last City, called Gehenna. And there will be a reign of one thousand years, and there will be no love, or life, or pity. The mighty will be as slaves, the virtuous will be made foul. Every good gift, every perfect gift will be tainted by the Father of Darkness, whose power will come from the nether realms."

>Book of Nod, Chronicle of Secrets, Signs of Gehenna, page 103.

>>97505572
Not bad stuff.

>>97505553
>doesn't say what they do
>2001

Yeah ok thanks, I guess I really will just have to do it myself. Pray for me.

>>97505570
Didn't the Mokole had a similar problem or am I tripping?

>>97503306
For fortitude equivalent stuff, I like to frame it so that the power doesn't make their flesh tougher. They're not bulletproof or anything like that, they just keep coming. A shotgun blast still takes a huge chunk out of the vampire, you can see clean through them. But they don't flinch. Or if they do, they aren't inconvenienced by it.

>>97505699
the only fera who don't have that problem are the ones made with a ritual and the kitsune (they are very smug about this)

I’m trying to make cool groups in a game set in the 80s I’m gonna run.
I thought about making a group of Malkavians (or maybe Toredore actually) who’s obsessed with photography. This guy or group sets up cameras all around the city, and even get ghouls to get picture of locations during the day. They set up almost a museums or display in an abandoned bank, and in the vault rooms they make 1:1 replications of places during the day, so they’ve got like thousands upon thousands of pictures that give almost a glimpse of what that location is like during the day.
I need to develop (lmao camera pun) the idea more but I have an idea how they’ll work with either the sabat or Cammies, but does it sound like a cool idea?

>>97503098
How much money and blackmail would you need as a Toreador to "hire" a Tremere, Salubri, and Tzimisce to work together and not kill each other to create a way to reliably and effectively cure diseases? Asking for my master, btw.

>>97505751
i am more questioning why you would need a tzimisce both the tremere and salubri can heal blood-borne diseases already, but the tzimisce offers literally nothing here

>>97505441
I suppose it's because WoD fans are probably more dedicated to the IP on top of fighting off a massive content drought and lmao no games

>>97505727
>smug foxes
Requires rape correction
>>97505748
This sounds extremely cool but is there some overarching reason for the coterie to interact with them? Maybe have them paint on their photographs and capture some scenes that they aren't supposed to know or something of that nature?

>>97505797
What if the Tzimisce is the disease they need to cure?

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>>97505441
r/WhiteWolfRPG isn't a ghost town but there are rules about dogging too hard on other editions, and the WoD Discord has a 'legacy' chat

>>97505441
It's the reward of oWoD possessing a rich and compelling setting with factions that have a lot of character and personality. It creates a lot of conversations, discussion and yes, arguments, but that's what you get for having a game that people actually want to talk about.

>>97505866
DnD used to have shit like this in good settings until Wizards turned everything into Faerun. I'm not even sure where it went wrong, though the questionable quality of Forgotten Realms books is probably part of it

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So, in Mage discussions I've heard the derogatory example of a phrenologist as an archetypal example of a tradition Mage, but how would I go about actually playing one?

I can see a mechanical cosmos as paradigm and Phrenology as practice, but how about the focus? I could see some charts and a mannequin head be enough for a base, but unless the man in black shooting at you will allow you to carefully examine the lumps on their cranium and determine his particular combination of aggressiveness, ambition, and amicability determines he is going to turncoat and shoot his coworker next, I don't see it working. Perhaps spheres like mind, time, and life could come in handy but I don't see such a character teleporting with Correspondence or shooting fireballs with Forces or turning lead into gold with Matter.

>>97505797
To keep the Tremere in check.

>>97505751
The Saulbri would do all the work
The Tzimisce would try to fuck the Salubri
The Tremere would diablrize them both & present the Salubri's work as his own

>>97505863
so you want to cure ebola?

V5 removing unique disciplines was a good call

>>97505228
Out of curiosity, what tribe was Lemon? I always assumed he was a CoG

>>97504967
That's exactly what a drone would want you to think

>>97505941
Limiting it just to phrenology is a bad idea, I'd also go with physiognomy and go with a blend of Life and Mind. I'd honestly take inspiration from the modern looksmaxxing culture.

>My character is going to use Mind 2 cause a flash of rage in one of the two bouncers, in the hope that the other one will apprehend him before he causes a scene and while they're occupied, the way should be open for us. He's going to do this by mogging the bouncer with his superior canthal tilt and FWHR, so he'll be using his Expression + Appearance to enhance this Effect. If he's successful, this should cause the bouncer's cortisol to spike, hence the angry outburst.

>>97506011
I prefer devotions. I'd rather play requiem 2e with Masquerade's lore than touch V5 with a stick.

>>97505864
Every subreddit related to WoD is filled with unironic paid shills and paradox employees. Is 0 fun allowed because they patrol each site to control the narrative.

>>97505911
It was 4E. Before that DnD still had different settings and some level of deep. 5E has reverted some damage but it never returned to being the same.

>>97504967
drones can have personality (they are static not dead) that's the entire point of using them instead of a spirit

what they can't have is character development without direct weaver involvement and control over it.

>>97505941
>>97505941
I think the Phrenology would be just the most prominent trick in an SoE toolbox. Your character might use Life + Mind to discover someone's skillset, mental attributes, nature/demeanor bla bla bla.

When you get into high weirdness and sphere count you fuck with the shape of your skull to unlock psychic potential and use telekinesis or whatever the fuck.

Some paradigms just don't get to play around with some major aspects of the game and that's ok.

>>97506113
In other words they are more often used as archetype/stereotype themed agents rather than tools.
Like here's Dave the Drone, a frat boy or some shit like that

>>97506076
To expand on this, people in that community basically think that appearance is everything and that looking good is a social cheat code that allows you to hack the brains the people around you and get away with anything, so a phrenologist mage would have a similar approach and perform all sorts of skull altering exercises, that enable them to socially dominate and outwit everyone around them with their superior cranium. A focus on the mage's own phrenology is easy to work with, I think.

>>97506047
CoG technically, but right after his rite of passage and before being officially inducted into the tribe he just told everyone to fuck off and that he’d be doing his own thing.

He’s the garou equivalent of a college kid who graduated in social studies and immediately try a career in politics without any experience, fundings and a (corrupted) party.

>>97506140
>Life + Mind to discover someone's skillset, mental attributes, nature/demeanor bla bla bla.
this would be just Mind

What clan would be the most formidable for a hunter turned vampire who retained his true faith after the embrace?

>>97506240
You're not just probing their mind your probing their skull features too

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Does anyone here have a copy of Guide to the Camarilla they can share that isn't missing half the fucking pages like the one in the mega

>>97506341
and does a dreamspeaker need spirit for everything they cast too? NO!
the analyzing of skull features is the spell itself just like how the words used by a hermetic isn't a sphere of it's own

>>97506359
what pages are missing?

>>97506261
Anyone with Celerity.

>>97506359
did you check all the megas?

>>97506261
would the near immunity to vampiric discipline you can get with a few dots in true faith null seen the unseen? if so then city gangrel

>>97506387
>Missing Entirely
4, 10, 18, 34, 60, 80, 101, 104, 109, 118, 150, 160, 176, 194
>Misplaced
38, 102, 108
>Duplicated
71, 204
>>97506408
I've checked the other megas and the copies I could find by googling, they all seem to be this same copy

>>97504967
Depends on how high a drone's autonomy stat is

>>97506431
I have a copy I got from a torrent like a decade ago that seems to be complete. Quality's kinda ass tho.
https://files.catbox.moe/ckgabw.pdf

>>97506464
Thank you anon, I'm pretty sure this one is even slightly better scan quality than the one I had

>>97506421
It only nullifies mind altering effects likedominate, presence, obfuscate, and chimestry

>>97506367
True, but it helps and it's a nice way to work with the paradigm of a phrenologist. Yes you can just probe their mind but perhaps their skull has some features you can force on the person through your weird ideas about proper skull formation or something similar.

>>97503098
>If you were in charge of the IP with unrestricted control how would you revive it?
Bring back limited publishing of WoD and CofD books to curb backlash to a third new setting that is a fusion of the two, taking the best ideas from both rather than shoving the worst ideas of 1e CofD into WoD like 5e did. Possibly with online supplements that work like the translation guides so you can better use anything from everything. Also, provide free rules for playing mortals and certain minor templates like psychics and CofD skin-thieves online.

>>97506109
Based. You are supposed to make your own setting in d&d not read shitty novels.

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Now that I actually have the page I can ask the question I had. Putting aside the extreme amount of limitations they put on actually getting it, how worth it would it be to take thaumaturgical countermagic? I'm specifically wondering about the Revised version since that's the version I play.

>>97506109
>>97506606
Yeah you can make your own setting but some of the published settings like Dark Sun and Planescape were quite kino. It's more of a problem that these are not well supported by current editions and that you end up doing excessive work as a DM that might not be satisfactory to you or the players.

>>97506627
unless you are a tremere messing with assamites a lot or a tremere in a entire chronicles about hunting traitors? unlikely to be very worth as most st general don't bother to go all out with npcs using rituals and stuff

>>97506464
NTA but thanks too. Seems like the pages missing was art from the original book and good quality one at that. Now I wonder if other books in the mega are missing content. It would be a good idea to replace or at least add this copy to the second MEGA.

>>97506654
In this case, I was thinking of an Assamite messing with Tremere stuff.

>>97506207
First based CoG to ever exist

Hedgefag
I know you made this thread
Fucking die retard

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>>97507462
Hedgefag hates you, human.

>>97507462
We consensused him out of reality, he's not real anymore

>>97506531
Obfuscate is a mind effecting power like Chimestry.

>>97507462
well I'm not Hedgefag and I say it's a based OP

hey leave hedgie alone!

No. I don’t think I will.

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Time for a quick survey:
-what's your favourite splat?
-are you a cat or a dog person?

>>97506261
Tremere, but good luck getting your ST to go with it

>>97507787
>Favorite splat
Wraith
>Cat or Dog
Dog

>>97507787
Vampire
Dog

>>97507355
I'm sure they exist, they're just stopped caring after hitting the CoG polycule jackpot

>>97507787
-vampire
-i like both

>>97507787
>-what's your favourite splat?
Demon the Fallen
>-are you a cat or a dog person?
Cat

>>97507787
Changeling followed closely by Mage; unless we're including fan splats, then Princess.
Cats.

>>97507787
Demon
Dogs

>>97507787
Hunter (not HtR) has to be my top pick with Mage coming in second.
>Cat/Dog
I'm a bird guy but I think I'll go with a cat

>>97507787
Vampire, second would be Demon
Dog but cats are cool too at least #3 I would put raccoons at #2

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>>97507787
Werewolf
Cat

>>97507787
>Favorite splat
Changeling the Dreaming, surprisingly enough. I always thought that I would primarily be a Mage guy or a Vampire guy, but after getting into Dreaming it's probably my favorite out of all of them.
>Cat or dog
I'd say dog, but probably just because I've had dogs throughout my life and barely any cats. In truth I feel great love for all animals that I get to know.

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>>97508100
>Werewolf
>Cat

>>97507787
CtL, Cats.

>>97507787
>favorite splat

V20 with HtR (not H5) being a close second. Anarchs Unbound and HH2 are my favorited (and the best) supplements. Gangrel and SAD Hunter >>>>

>cats or dogs

I don’t want pets and no that does not make me a psychopath.

>worst splat addition
Demon’s lore

Anons should explain what they like about their favorite splat too, I guess I can start
>Wraith
I like the Arcanoi and Stygia even if it is probably a bit much sometimes. Dead people the RPG is surprisingly quite fun with enforced schizophrenia

>>97508135
>tfw born to Bastet forced to chud Garou

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>>97506076
>>97506140
>>97506178
Hey these are all great ideas thanks, it helps expand the idea from "stuck-up snobby scientist" to "the ultimate mogger". Rather than struggling to prove a kooky biology model, you are using your superior genetic dotage and proportions to bring enlightenment to the cranially inferior. Turbo-mewing, nose microfractures, tape to get the exact angle for your hunter eyes, a high medicine skill to make the required modifications and stimulate brain wrinkle growth through massage, semen retention for maximum protein conservation! Eventually one could develop pyrokinesis or telekinesis with the correct modifications...

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>>97507787
Spider
Spider

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>>97508164

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>>97508152
grim

>>97507787
Mage
Cat

>>97508146
>I don’t want pets
Yeah, but there's gotta be one you like to give a few pets to when at someone else's house that does.

>>97508243
She needs to find a better fitting bra.

>>97508148
Yeah, you're right, I should explain some more
>>97508070
I like demon because
>a lot of its themes really speak to me.
>the houses, factions and court structure and the interplay between these provides a lot of interesting potential for politicking
>its morality system is more impactful than Vampire's, but less restrictive than Mummy's
>evocations are extremely jank and unbalanced, even by WoD standards, but it gives each house its own fairly well defined themes
>from an RP perspective, I love the interplay you can do between your mortal side and demon side
It just really suits my tastes

>>97508320
Based, it does sound pretty neat when you explain it like that.

>>97507355
Thanks, will do my best to live up to your expectations

Making a White supremacist mage with a voodoo black gf. Which faction would suit him best?

>>97508541
Euthanatoi

>>97508541
Verbena

>>97507931
I am the ST. I had an idea for a mid/late game antagonist. Either an enemy to be taken out or a tool that they can manipulate into killing their other enemies. I kinda figure aside from the initial 3 discipline dots, he wouldnt aquire any more disciplines. He would see it as stones that pave the way to damnation. He would use the disciplines he starts with but rely on his attributes and skills primarily. Im mostly trying tonfigure out a clan that has the best disciplines and a fitting bane for him.

>>97508541
I mean. Etherite is the only real.answer. make him a bully boy from the depths of Argatha, & he's got a cutie girl he plundered grom the Dark Continent

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>>97507787
vampire, specifically dark age
dog

>>97508731
Okay then. Harbinger of Skulls.

Give him some Auspex, Fortitude, the biblical Necromancy Paths, & Lure of Flames Blood Sorcery as an out of clan.

Dude will be a fucking beast & scary as he'll to boot

>>97506261
Malkavian. Religious delusions + religious delusions. Hunters thrive on ambushes and info gathering, Malks are very good at both.

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What kind of games does DAV20 lend itself to? I’ve been thinking about doing something in Cairo or Alexandria, but it seems like it’d be pretty different from running a modern nights game

I’m reading the Assamite Revised book, and I’ve noticed that one of the primary roles of their Sorcerer caste is to hunt demons. How exactly does one build a demon hunting Assamite Sorcerer?

>>97508877
Embracing the feudal lord role. Like, these people are your food source but also your subjects & you need to have a strong land & people to fend off threats.

>>97508941
What kinds of PCs are usually for it? As in, I imagine “adventurer” isn’t quite as normal here

>>97507787
Mage, Cats

>>97507787
To play? Vampire.
Lore? Changeling.
Cat. I miss my cat. Shes long gone but I still hear her now and then.

>>97507787
>what's your favourite splat?
vampire or demon
>are you a cat or a dog person?
birds then cats

>>97508981
really any social class or trade works as a vampire. while the classic is the dark lord and lady of the night there is also nothing stopping a vampire from having been say a farmer. depending on what you are doing the farmer might have an easier time than the noble, it's not like commoners would feel very relaxed near a noble while when the farmer talks to them they don't hold back.

>>97506627
Depends on your chronicle. If you are going to face large amounts of Vampiric Magic from Thaumaturgy to Necromancy to Sadhana, it is very worth it. Sometimes even the only way for you to face those.

But if you will not or worse, though it will be useful against normal Mages or non-human Magic, don't bother. It is waste of XP, effort and sessions.

>>97509436
>though it will be useful against normal Mages or non-human Magic
Literally says it's not effective against non vampiric magic

>>97508877
>What kind of games does DAV20 lend itself to?
Mudcore if are in the low or no XP bracket. Local lording as >>97508941 points out and copy pasting Arthurian legends at high tier play.

>>97503641
Garou run hot headed by nature. They all thing that they have all the answers and get pissy when they are told what to do or how to do it. Basically, everyone has PC behavior. If your running a game and your group of Cliath are ordered by someone higher ranking to do anything they don't want, they're going to bitch and moan profusely and plot the NPCs downfall.

>>97507787
>kot
kot

Go fuck yourself hedgefag

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>>97509576
Lazy bum won't even fuck the changeling

>>97503958
There's not an actual rule that they need to die. They just are no longer a respected leader of the himbo muscle club, and most Garou stop feeling that life is worth living when that's the case. It's also not like you hit a certain number and the Nation Logan's Run's you. When you can no longer keep up with the pack, you are risking their lives. When you can't tell a pup how to hack into Pentex's mainframe, your knowledge is worthless. When you can't reliably call on the spirits, why are you at the moot? Different tribes have different ways of dealing with it to. Get of Fenris will share their meals with the elderly when they're able to share wisdom with them. Bone Gnawers actually see age as a respectable thing. And most of the time, a philodox will turn a blind eye if you were to ask your kinfolk to put you in a home or let you live with them in your old age. But your average garou is too proud to ask that.

>>97509718
The earlier discussion established that it's a law of the Litany that less than half of the tribes really follow and even then, all that the law asks is that Garou don't mooch off of the Garou Nation when they can no longer contribute to it for whatever reason. So you're right, so long as a crippled werewolf doesn't ask for hand-outs or slow their buddies down, they can keep on living.

It's only the Fianna, Red Talons and Wendigo who really insist on the whole "you must die when you are too old or crippled to be useful" thing.
Your typical Shadow Lords take it a step further and dispose of anyone who they consider a detriment to the cause, no matter the state of their health, because of course they do.

>>97507787
>splat
WtA and CtD, they're the most nuanced.
>cats or dogs
I like dogs too, but cats make for better companions.

>>97504430
>WoD was first conceived using wraith before releasing vampire first

Really? Where did you get that from?

>>97510067
nta, but old interviews discuss how the idea from WoD came from a game (forgot the name of it) about being dead souls trapped in hell. it wasn't very good but the base idea was eventually reworked into wraith

>>97509794
>all that the law asks is that Garou don't mooch off of the Garou Nation when they can no longer contribute to it for whatever reason.
Alll the litany does is ban pensions, got it.

>mfw I realize werewolves are culturally mandated to put down useless parasitic boomers instead of letting them leech off their descendants in perpetuity
Werewolves are based actually.

>>97509718
>>97509794
Perhaps Garou Boomers just really don't like their family

>>97510102
There's still workarounds, like the "retirement fund" of the Glass Walkers. If you give a retiring werewolf a large lump sum of cash as a gift, technically no rules have been broken. If the retiree wants to use that money to support themselves after that point, that's their choice.

New WtA antagonist concept.

An extremist Shadow Lord Philodox of the Judges of Doom camp who considers it his Gaia-given duty to go from sept to sept, culling any infirm Garou that he comes across in order to rid the Nation of dead weight and weakness. He's technically not doing anything wrong and is just enforcing the Litany and by defending those who are unable to defend themselves, anyone who protects their sept's infirm is tending to their sickness and is therefore violating the Litany as well.

>>97510274
This is just your usual non-PC shadow lord encounter

>>97510274
>Total Boomer Death enforcer
And this makes him an "antagonist" how?

>>97510316
>he doesn't know a single old person who he would like to protect from an "everyone over the retirement age must die" mass murderer

>>97510402
I'm sure there are some, I don't dislike boomers overall. All the boomers in power though, there should be anti-geriatric laws

>>97510402
I don't, and neither do you, hand over meemaw.

>>97507787
Vampire
Cat

>>97510620
Syndicate m… I mean enlightened businessman fighting reality deviants on the field

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>>97508939
Any advice anons?

>>97510688
I rarely see discussion of the Coldsteel ibn Al-Zutt clan, sorry

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>>97510626
>Syndicate is run by the jews
Much, much worse...they're Irish

>>97510684
Heh, this was good

>>97510684
Kek

>>97510688
>>97508939
you don't have much unique anti demon stuff at all. the assamites are kinda all talk no show when it comes to their demon hunting rules wise
the only thing really is
>Blessings of the Great Dark Mother
to sense and null supernatural pacts and know who the pact was between but that's not really a assamite sorcery as it's a "recent" true black hand only path created by the bahari of the sect together with the molochim baali that just happen to also be Dur-An-Ki because the baali are also from that region so acording to the V20 true black hand book half of them are using that and the other half use koldunism (but only the anti demon path they made for that with the old clan tzimisce) but never together for some reason

so hope that your st just let's you take it because it's on the wiki together with the rest of assamite sorcery...

beside that you just have good ol' spirit manipulation, but even that was added in v20 in revised they really had nothing to justify that lore

>>97510734
justify is a bit... play out that lore might be a better phrase

I am a master of Correspondence but I have never ever studied nor do I use any other sphere :)

>>97510695
Unfortunate but true
>>97510734
Yeah I was hoping that there was just something that I was missing or not looking at right, but I guess not. Maybe I should just pivot from Demon hunting to "Demon"(Tremere) hunting

>>97510786
> Maybe I should just pivot from Demon hunting to "Demon"(Tremere) hunting
well most of their claim to fame seems to be from demon (baali) hunting and the spin off demon (setite) hunting instead of demon (actual demon) hunting because everytime a named demon shows up in lore they get their ass kicked for some reason

so demon (tremere) hunting seems right up the alley

>>97510778
Do you just send spicy mail and hope it has the intended effect then?

>>97510800
>>97510786
Hey look on the bright side friend, even if the odds are stacked against you you could always be the one (1) Assamite that isn't all talk. ST willing of course, the amount of reality bending bullshit that exists in the setting is phenomenally unhinged

>>97510814
I also support the idea of playing an Assamite that slowly realizes his entire clan is full of shit, but powers through anyway to be the demon hunter the world needs.

>>97510814
>>97510833
bonus points if it get's the guy true faith in a religion ur shulgi the baali brat that he is would purge them for

>>97510833
>>97510838
At this point, you can just be the Vampire Hunter D gigachad you want to be. That does sound rather dope

>>97510684
I'm sure we've done this before but in WoD what is Dorian Gray?

>>97510814
>>97510833
>>97510838
I don't think that I'm going to get the chance to have True Faith, but maybe I could petition for getting one of the two paths from the Islamic blood magic that gets folded into Dur-An-Ki in the modern nights. Gifts of Faith's first 3 powers are giving a willpower boost to a group after prayer, keeping someone from attacking you my praying and maintaining eye contact, and effectively exorcising a Frenzy from someone. Wouldn't help against real Demons, but it would help with their vamp pawns

>>97510965
Enchanted in oWoD or Immortal in CofD

>>97508939

Divine Hand might allow you to remotely use your True Faith Powers. Justify having Path on Conjuring/Path of Focused Mind too & you could just summon a model & then destroy shit in the same turn

>>97510998
Honestly the True Faith would be a stretch I agree, there's like what, 2-3 official examples of vampires with true faith, and besides one the ratings aren't terribly high.

To be honest, a standard Assamite might be the better bet mechanically if you wanted to kill demons and their bitch boys. Blood Magic has a lot of busted stuff. But Celerity + Obfuscate + Aggravated damage is the win button to most combat encounters because it helps you get the drop on your foe (ambushing is extra OP in WoD), Celerity is multi-attack, and Quietus 4 gets you agg, though that is a strong investment, it's agg you can put on a weapon, which is potentially an insane amount of agg.

Though I'm not the biggest fan of clans getting "castes" myself, if you wanna go the Sorcerer route godspeed. Kill them demons and expose the rest of your clan as a bunch of frauds.

>>97511030
divine hand is setite sorcery which plays into the great irony that setite sorceres and baali would both make better demon hunters than the guys who hunt them for being demonic cultists (however justified in most cases) because they are actually given abilities that interact with demons/spirits/spectres and the like (kolduns too to a degree)
for example divine hand works on
>spirits who manifest on Earth or in the Penumbra or Shroud.
after getting 3 dots in the path
>Divine Hand might allow you to remotely use your True Faith Powers.
divine hand 5 does mention that it works with disciplines, path and ritual powers so other numina like true faith would be out

>>97511019
>Enchanted in oWoD
Elaborate on this

>>97511068
Its the all the same shit. It should count but as always ask your ST

>>97511073
Enchanted get a boon when enchanted. That boon can easily be the subject of the painting stuff

>>97510695
>Coldsteel ibn Al-Zutt clan
Underrated.

Realistically, can a Mage have True Faith or is a Paradigm much too incoherent with actual belief? I imagine Mages already have actual belief, just in their delusions instead of anything standard

One thing I think they should have done with the Nephandi and Threat NULL is given them a version of the Internal/External Divide present in the types of Marauders.
External Instances are the more obvious usages of the Posthuman Consensus (An Umbrella term I've created for the Enlightened Sciences used by Threat NULL) and the Shell Magics (That Edgy Shit The Nephandi Use), both of which Paradox can clean up on its own.
Internal Instances of Threat NULL and the Nephandi are just as dangerous as Internal Marauders because they can get both Mages and Sleepers to go "Wait, that's actually a really good point."

>>97511109
I mean the Knights Templar have it, but I think that's it.

>>97511109
one of the two celestial cloister books talks about it, but in the end just throws it hands up and let's the st decide

it should be noted that there are however cloisters npcs with true faith and magic

>>97511109
I think you need to have a belief in some higher power

>>97511117
>>97511135
Interesting
>>97511151
Is a mage who believes in a power higher than that of the mage actually capable of being a good mage? I just figure it's one of those things that sort of start being mutually exclusive but then again Choristers are Christian wizards

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If I (crow from Shadow Lords tribe) sucked off my lord, would I gain (serving my lord) or lose (having sex with other werewolf) good Garou points?

>>97511302
Is your Lord a degenerate (gay) or a degenerate (Litany breaker)?

>>97511263
You already said it yourself, choristers work. There's no issue with believing in a higher power for a mage. Maybe their avatar is just a piece of the One, of course it can work magic.

>>97511314
I would say that he isn't a degenerate at all and throat you for offending him.

>>97511349
Throat you in which way? Anyway, the Get Ahrouns have proven that it's within the Litany to be engaging in sex with your bro to blow off steam so surely this cannot be bad

>>97511302
Only the most hardline Philodox of today would argue that oral = mating

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Wheelerbros, woofs keep attacking us. How do we stop them?

>>97511421
is there anything these furniggers won't call wyrmish?

>>97511421
>turns out wyrm taint is just jhor

>>97511427
Well, there's a Garou saying. ''If two fish in the river are fighting, Pentex is behind it.''

>>97511427
garou called mokolé wyrmish just because they are reptilian, reptilian just like gaia intended them mind you and to this day refuse to consider that this might be wrong despite none of the wyrm sensing gifts working on mokolé

so no, no there isn't

This post >>97511446 seems wyrmish to me.

The Mokole caused the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs and blamed it on the Wyrm, pass it on

>>97511109
I don't remember why but I was under the impression that mages using any non-mage supernatural powers were just emulating them through their spheres.
In that case for example a chorister with "true faith" would still suffer paradox for it.
I might be wrong though.

>>97511427
Of course, they blame anything they can't blame on the wyrm on the weaver.

>>97511464
True Faith would probably be coincidental, it's not a big or flashy power and a sleeper seeing a vampire recoil from a cross wouldn't question it because that's how they'd likely expect it to work

>ugh i can't believe that werewolves associate the mages with such a strong connection to death and destruction with the spirit god of death and destruction
?

>>97511427
Yeah, themselves.
Take a look at the sky, dogs of war, and may the light of Anthelios remind you of your oh so honourable ancestor's failures to keep the balance.

>>97505549
>>97505553
>>97505559
>>97505693

Someone already did that
Look for Mystic Armory by Charles Siegel; if its not in one of the MEGAs, you might ask in the PDFshare thread

Enlightened Grimoire by the same dude also collates all the canon spells. Both are also on DriveThruRPG

>>97511427
>>97511450
>>97511583
Is gay sex with your Wolf friend wyrmish? Asking for a friend.

>>97511561
They have all these Wyrm sensing gifts or they can just ask directly like reasonable people(?) and someone that clearly does not worship the Wyrm will ask you what the fuck you're blabbering about while a Wyrmoid while cackle like a hyena and talk about how they gave STDs to Dave from accounting unprompted. Ferectoi not withstanding

>>97511561
You seem a little thin-skinned there, pal.

>>97511464
I always sort of assumed the price of being a true Mage(tm) was that you just cannot do hedge wizardry. You can emulate it with rotes and spheres but you can never quite do it off of whatever sort of mental resources and planning a sorcerer is using. So like Occam's sunlight collecting in HtP can be emulated, but you can't passively collect sunlight to fuel your magic the way he can.
>>97511534
I can see this happening too, though I don't know. I legitimately cannot imagine a Verbena having true faith in the Christian sense, maybe in Gaia or spirits or something. Werewolves can't get True Faith either can they?

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>>97511625
Wyrm taint can be entirely incidental, it comes from everything associated with the Wyrm (death and destruction), not just actively serving the Wyrm. In that context, Jhor is absolutely going to seem like Wyrm taint to a werewolf with Sense Wyrm.

And while more sensible werewolves are smart enough to realise that the average slaughterhouse worker with Wyrm taint probably isn't a fomor, even the most liberal Garou is going to be suspicious of mages who ooze hardcore Wyrm stink.

>>97511664
>Werewolves can't get True Faith either can they?
There is an example of a Werewolf with True Faith in Gaia in some of the books, he's even one of the most adept True Faith users in the setting
>https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Garret_Faithful

Which groups should have the most skilled true faith users?

>>97511669
I can understand now why Garou moments happen so frequently. I too would distrust a guy giving off the heebie jeebies if I saw him remote open a car

Is Jhor the same thing as entropic resonance or is it ultra strength wyrm juice?

>>97511904
In Revised, Jhor was Entropic Quiet. M20 treats Jhor like a type of Entropic Resonance that is specifically the Resonance of Death. The most famous type of it is the madness that afflicts Voormas.

While it's exclusively a Mage thing, the mystical resonance of death magic is exactly the sort of thing that would ping as Wyrm taint in Werewolf's cosmology.

What colors best match each of the triat & Gaia?

It's almost valentine's day.
You ARE going to fuck that cute toreador, aren't you?

>>97511978
Wyrm: black and purple (and noxious bright radioactive green)
Wyld: all other greens and yellow
Weaver: white and blue

>>97512042
Gaia?

>>97512025
I'm a volcel chud and all the Kindred are scared of my superior Tzimisce existence

>>97512025
No I'm gonna fuck my cute changling wife

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>>97512271
>volcel
>superior Tzimisce existence

>>97512025
>V*mpire
I'd rather kill myself

>>97512192
Mix 'em altogether.

>Assamite
>"Old Clan" Tzimisce
>Salubri
>Giovanni

All lame.

>>97512288
Tzimisce chads do not goon for others, they goon for their art form (torturing people by turning them into fleshblobs

>>97512352
If you're doing the classic "ugh, I hate all of the clans rooted in human cultures/ethnicities" bit, why exempt Ravnos?

>>97512025
Probably drink a case of beer and grope my Kinfolk cousin (if she screams I'll kill her)

>>97512370
>"ugh, I hate all of the clans rooted in human cultures/ethnicities" bit, why exempt Ravnos?

Because I'm not doing that bit. Use your brain when reading. Salubri aren't rooted in an ethnicity. Ravnos are okay when there's like one or two of them tops and they're being sheisty tricksters. It's not really "main clan" material but it's fine as a bit role.

Setites are similarly fine. Not because they're deep or anything, but because I like having evil snake cultists to gun down en-masse. Every campaign needs fodder villains, and Conan proved Egyptian snake vampires works for villain fodder.

>>97512422
In which case, what's lame about the ones that you listed?

>>97512377
>Cousin
Fucking Silver Fangs

>>97504430
Fianna are one of the few tribes to follow each law of the litany without compromise. They don't have little twists on it that say "yes, but actually we don't". However, Fianna are also the biggest fuck ups in the nation. While a Child of Gaia may spend cycles arguing why it is moral and necessary to break a law of the litany, a Fianna will break it in a night and shrug it off with a "shite happens".

>>97512548
That sounds about right. Must be all that drinking making them impulsive. I wonder how the rest of the tribes react to litany breaking like that? I assume Shadow Lords would just mull it over a day and just deny it ever happened

>>97512444
>Assamites
They change the lore on these guys every edition, and every time it just sucks in a different way. The bigger problem is their existence made the writers think that Assamite lore = Middle East lore, which is why the Middle East is so underbaked and one note in official lore.

>Old Clan Tzimisce
So do you mean Old Clan Tzimisce "I'm just an independent Tzimisce from eastern europe", Old Clan Tzimisce "I fucking hate vicissitude", or Old Clan Tzimisce "I'm just a Koldun I don't know why people think that's what Old Clan Tzimisce is."? Putting that aside they're just Ventrue/Lasombra for people too hipster to play a Ventrue/Lasombra.

>Salubri
I do not care for the good boy vampire clan. I think that good vampires should be the result of an individual character overcoming the immense incentives to be a bastard and the constant tug of the beast. Making a clan of "good boys" undermines the value of holding on to your humanity.

>Giovanni
Jack of all trades, masters of none. Even if the lore insists they're the masters of every single one. Ventrue make for better richfags and old money aristos. Tzimisce do fucked up inbreeding better. Lasombra make for better psychotic mystic mobsters. And with the inclusion of other clans/bloodlines with Necromancy, there's really not much of a reason to have these guys who do the same stuff as other, more interesting clans/bloodlines.

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What spheres does she possesses and at what rank)

>>97512580
Mafia Necromancers is kind of an interesting faction as a bunch of independents. An underground for the underground that is Vampire society, I think it's neat. I can see why you might dislike it though.
>>97512596
Who dis

>>97512548
At the same time, it’s a kind of healthy approach. Yeah, they try to respect culture and tradition and all of the laws, but they also respect that it’s hard to remain true to all of them while also enjoying life, causing them to be one of the more forgiving tribes. So they end up in that weird spot of simultaneously being one of the most conservative tribes and one of the most liberal tribes.

>>97512635
The Liberal-Conservative spectrum depends on how drunk and horny they are though

>>97512635
>causing them to be one of the more forgiving tribes
Unless you're metis...

>>97512612
Magia Baiser, with her crop she can turn objects and animals into BDSM themed servants. She’s powered by lust and if she’s horny/inspired enough she can raise her power exponentially. Her pseudo super form can also freeze people in place with webs of pure energy. That’s a short summary skipping a few feats.

>>97512741
On the other hand, a Fianna metis would be the one of the most emotionally vulnerable and easiest to manipulate Garou.

>>97512025
No thanks, I'm a Wraith (killed myself when I realized I'd spend yet another Valentine's all alone)

>>97512949
Imagine killing yourself for being alone only to realize your entire undeath will also be alone because social skills transfer and a voice in your head reminds you you'll always be alone, that shit would double end me

>>97512798
SHOO SHOO SHADOW LORD

>Track Morrison is the creator and host of The Right Track, a moderately successful right-wing podcast with especial ties to MRA and "anti-SJW" rhetoric. As of recently, he has also transformed himself into a Stolen Moon.
>Becoming a Stolen Moon also has revitalized his career as a podcaster. Something about the Rage he feels helps him connect with his fans. He feels their anger and their fear and knows how to feed it back to them to fuel his growth as a public figure. The main shift in his rhetoric came from ditching outdated “alpha male” ideas he clung to before he became a werewolf. Every one of his listeners is an alpha now because they all feel the weight of knowing the truth of the world and feel the weight of the battles to come to put things right. Track howls to begin each episode of The Right Track and he knows that his true fans, the ones he calls his “palphas”, howl along with him whenever they listen to the latest episode.
Who /palpha/ here?

>>97513010
Shadow Lord, Mage, or Vampire trying to make abominations. Call it.
>>97513136
This was a hilarious read

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>>97513136
>it's real

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>>97510695
>Coldsteel ibn Al-Zutt clan
Kek, had to look it up but that's a good one
>>97508939
>>97512352
>>97512580
>their existence made the writers think that Assamite lore = Middle East lore, which is why the Middle East is so underbaked and one note in official lore.
Which is funny when you consider how pivotal Noddism and biblical stories are to the setting.

I personally dislike the Ravnos simply because I can't think of a single cool thing they did besides that time they all got killed and Zapp soloed like 4 different splats. Why do they exist? Brujah make better rogues, Gangrel are better wanderers, Nosferatu make better thieves, Tremere, Setites, Assamites and Malkavians make better Mystics. Even with the Romani association I can't think of a Transylvanian gothic setting and think "oh yeah, the poojeet clan is also there". And nemesis to the Gangrel? Really? When the Assamites with their Lawgiving Hunters schtick VS the Savage Beasts is right there? That's just silly.

>>97512979
In the bright side you have someone that can't ever leave you.

>>97513136
Lmao, which W5 book is this from?

>>97513425
Consider that someone is also you, and the "I can make you worse" version of you.

>>97512580
Hear, hear!

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>>97512596

>>97513136
Do these alphas eat Ananasi?

>>97513697
Curiously, only if they're stolen moon Ananasi.
Whatever that would be for Ananasi. Stolen Silk?

That sounds like a decent nickname but it would probably be something like "petty poisoners" because they would need another ritual.

>>97513717
Stolen Silk sounds interesting but maybe something that doesn't sound so borrowed. Perhaps Silk Bandits? >>97513749
Interesting as well

Why didn't we get a Renaissance booklet for Vampire when it was probably the most interesting era for their politics in history?