What are we expecting for the new Dragon Adventure mode in Sparking?

>>555966383
Gohanfags will finally win

>>555966635
What will they win?

>>555967167
Relevancy

Dr. Gero who didn't know what a Super Sayian was, and according to some (wrong people) didn't know what Frieza's power level was, built his weakest (non-movie) artifical human capable of one shotting mecha-Frieza

>>555970318
I like to liken Gero to those slop fanfic protagonists who grind super duper hard and oneshot all the opponents. Except Gero was planning to fight a goku who was maybe as strong as goku just arriving on namek at most so im not sure wtf he was on.

>>555970318
>and according to some (wrong people) didn't know what Frieza's power level was
He shouldn't, though? His computer clearly did know because of the spy drones but if he knew what frieza's power level was he would know about super saiyan, because trunks was there to fight frieza. I'm not even sure he so much as knew frieza existed

>>555970779
>I'm not even sure he so much as knew frieza existed
Anon... can you recite the component parts of Cell for me.

>>555970318
We know Gero didn't know about Freeza because he would know of SS then, dumbass. Or do you think he was watching the whole thing but conveniently stopped before Goku and Trunks went SS?

>>555970928
Anon I brought up the spy drones in my previous post, I know about Frieza and Cold being in Cell. Dragonball itself says that Gero delegated that task to his computer, as it would take too long to manage personally, given he doesn't know about super saiyan it would make no sense for him to know about frieza. As both were in the same place at the same time

>>555970928
I don't know if you are an amerifat or a frogcuck and your anime version fucked up here too, or if you just don't remember, but Cell was created by Gero's computer, Gero himself was working on other stuff while his computer crafted Cell. For Gero to know about Freeza but no SS he would have to selectively watch only certain parts of Freeza's first visit to Earth.

>>555971134
>>555971384
Where the computer find the cells then? Little Frieza bits found over a year after the fact?
>>555971384
>>555971102
Or maybe exceedingly high power levels destroy scouters and scouter like devices?

>>555971509
Anon the spy drones. It has spy drones watching everything the z fighters do and has it collecting samples right after the battle is over. Cell literally points it out and piccolo destroys one

>>555971598
...so the computer with it's own spy drones watched this happen, while Gero had one spy drone assigned to himself and he refused to check the ones he assigned to the computer?

>>555966383
People believe it's a second Story Mode but I don't think so since there seem to be battles against Scouter Vegeta and Perfect Cell active on the map at the same time

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The Relavent page in question

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>>555971771
No? Gero himself has not been looking at what the Z fighters have been doing at all since Saiyan Saga, as he felt confident he would be able to gauge goku's strength given the data he had since red ribbon up to that point.

>>555971797
>Dr Gero didn't clue you in *he* employed spy robots...
Why did Cell start referring to the computer suddenly, with a undenoted pronoun. The claim is Gero never saw Frieza.

>>555972313
well, yes. Gero was obviously the one to create the spy drones as well as the computer that made cell. The question here is whether or not he was checking them, Which he obviously did not going by his reply in the page above

>>555971509
Spy flies, Cell literally shows us one. The whole process was automated by Gero, he didn't know what kind of beings he was stealing from.

So, gamewise, anything happening for xenoverse 2, breakers or anything? Genshiki, Kakarot and Sparking Zero just got new stuff

>>555972479
No he did not say he was not checking them, he says he did not follow them to Namek. Mecha Frieza showed up on Earth.

>>555972830
His reply that he has a total grasp of their power and technique kind of implies he has no reason to ever check them anymore, anon. Like this isn't even some kind of plot hole It's literally just that he got overconfident and didn't check the cameras after Saiyan Saga

>>555972830
And if he had checked what happened to Freeza he would have seen the Super Saiyan. Two of them in fact. He didn't know what that thing was so he clearly didn't see Freeza and Cold.

>>555973030
Goku also trained in super saiyan during the three year gap if the chapter splash page is to belived too. He had multiple instances to see it if he was checking the cameras
Also as a complete nonsequitor, why was Gero trying to hide his identity from the z fighters wtf was up with that. It's not like it was some kind of big twist for the readers anyways given it's very casually revealed by 17 and 18

>>555973030
>And if he had checked what happened to Freeza
how if he can detect power levels those devices would be destroyed.

>>555973732
He can't sense powerlevels, anon. None of the androids sans 16 can. If he could sense powerlevels he would know immediately that goku is way stronger than he aught to be

>>555973732
We don't know if he could, but even if he did I don't see why would the scouter break, Android 16's own not!scouter didn't break, why would Gero's? We aren't talking about Kinoko's shitty job

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>>555966383
>>555971773
I don't think it's a story mode, but the usage of an overworld map does make it seem like a bigger mode than either Mission 100 or Survival. Maybe it's some sort of souped-up version of Sim Dragon that for some reason has an overworld?

>>555973818
16 is surely older than Age 764, or did Gero build 16-Himself in the three year time skip too.
>>555974554
The artifical humans have not!genki, so 16 can have energy sensing techniques powered by himself. Nobody with energy sensing abilities has ever been shown to explode when exposed to subsequently high power levels. Are the Bee robots going to be shooting not!genki energy blasts?

>>555975294
If it's like BT2 it seems fun, but if it's just flying around the map with random battles spawning there needs to be more rewards otherwise there's no point. They really shot themselves in the foot not making this the default story mode you play through the story with, that's what made the original so great

>>555975447
>The artifical humans have not!genki
Only 17 and 18, because they're improved humans and not robots like 16 is. Artificial humans is actually a misnomer when applied to them specifically

>>555970318
>>555970631
All Gero knew about Goku was this really
>got one-shotted by an assassin, three days later 'killed' said assassin
>destroyed an entire army only an hour after that
>(almost) won the tournament for the title of STRONGEST PERSON ON THE PLANET
>fought a demon immediately after, nearly died
>at the rematch, Goku one-shotted said demon
>fought another demon, the literal worst thing to ever attack Earth in its history by that point, and Goku 'died'
>only a couple days later, Goku completely overpowers said demon
>three years later he is unimaginably more powerful
>five years later, Goku literally dies fighting someone in order to win
>one year after that, he is so much more powerful that he basically one shots a guy five times as strong, and then goes toe to toe with the strongest guy to ever show up on Earth
If I was Gero, I would fucking estimate Goku's power to be in the heavens by the time I'm done, and then set my killbots to be twenty times as strong so Goku doesn't bullshit his way to victory like he has done every single time before.

>>555976367
To be fair to Gero, his actual power growth through all this is actually pretty low as far as power levels go. The before and after of namek is FAR, FAR larger than anything goku was shown capable of doing ever before. The real wtf was why did he assume this clearly non human person who does not and never has operated like a human would have their power growth slowed down in his 30s like a normal human would. As far as Gero knows he's biologically immortal

>>555975447
>not!genki
The cyborgs? Sure why not. But 16 is 100% machine, he's just an intelligent toaster, he doesn't have anything resembling a real life form, he reads power as a machine would. And yeah assuming Gero could make the machinery small enough, the spy robots would fire energy just like 16 does, there's no reason to think they couldn't.

>>555976323
No let's try that again. 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 are all in the category called "Artificial Humans" we can call them group Y because the name isn't important. All members of group Y, demonstrate a power set based around something that is not Genki, but functions similarly to Genki, but is not Genki. They can fire Altki blasts, they have altki enhanced strength, they can all use altki flight.
>>555976674
19 and 20 have the same power set, 20 is a cyborg, 19 is purely mechanical. They all, can fly and shoot alternative ki blasts.

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>>555976935
Just because a battle droid and a genetically modified human can both fly and fire some type of energy doesn't mean Android 16 (a battle droid) has some spiritual power. The thing he used to read energy was also explicitly called "power radar" in original english, too, so it's clearly nothing but a machine that reads power levels.
Gero wouldn't have a problem reading Freeza's energy, he just didn't because he didn't even know the guy was there.

you gotta remember that 19 and 20 absorb energy
whatever they use it's close enough to standard Ki that draining it out of someone else can refill their reserves

>>555977521
No? Energy conversion, as far we know Gero just built a device that sucks the mix of spiritual, mental and physical power of a life form (ki) and turns it into a more simple energy like electricity

>>555977521
...but also not close enough to be detected by Genki users.

>>555975294
>I don't think it's a story mode, but the usage of an overworld map does make it seem like a bigger mode than either Mission 100 or Survival
Also the fact that it's paid, it would be a bad look for them if the free modes where better than the one in the DLC expansion
>>555976170
>If it's like BT2 it seems fun, but if it's just flying around the map with random battles spawning there needs to be more rewards otherwise there's no point. They really shot themselves in the foot not making this the default story mode you play through the story with, that's what made the original so great
It was great in Budokai 3, where there was an actual point in visiting different places on the map that gave you new scenes, capsules or triggered What If scenarios. In Tenkaichi 2 you only go from paint A to point B like a glorified missions select screen. You could sometimes do stuff like go to Kame House or Kami's Lookout to have Roshi and Yajirobe join your party for the next battle but they always had the same stock dialogue and didn't affect the battle or plot at all.

Can you name a single difference between 17/18's powerset and 16's power set that is not dwarfed by the difference between different Genki users' power sets?

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When are we getting content about Cuu and Duu absorptions? I remember seeing like one piece of fan art about Cuu absorbing someone and never again. What are artist doing? What is Superdivers doing?

>>555977669
I don't think "electricity" really works as the example here, whatever they actually run on is vastly more efficient and dense than standard electricity

>>555977695
Correct, which is weird because there's a plot point in GT about them having Ki that can be sensed

>>555977994
We don't have to. Blame Toriyama for making life forms, glorified smart fridges and biocyborgs behave and fight pretty much the same. That still doesn't make them use the same power sources

>>555977994
Rocket Punch

>>555978297
They are using the same energy source because they are all Artificial Humans, we know it isn't Genki because it is explicitly stated to be diffrent.

>>555978516
Nice headcanon but Cell is a jinzoningen too, and he has ki. There's no reason to assume all other types of jinzoningen share power source, 17 and 16 being fueled by the same thing is 100% headcanon.

>>555978736
Cell is not numbered, and we know he doesn't use altki since he is sensed repeatedly by Genki users.

>>555978052
GT is full of completely retarded shit nobody sane should even consider in any educated discussion.

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>>555978051
Superdivers already started adding Heroes original characters so it's only a matter of time until they bring Fin back and make him absorb Buu, Kuu and Duu to form the ultimate demon

If a character is never stated to be sensed by another character, we can not say they have Genki, saying a character who is not explicitly stated to have Genki is bullshit.

>>555978845
>Cell is not numbered
And why does that matter? Having no number means you aren't a jinzoningen? That's retarded and you know it.
>and we know he doesn't use altki
Exactly, we know for a solid fact your claim of all jinzoningen using the same thing is wrong. Explaining what part of the lore proves you wrong does not excuse your mistake duh

>>555979248
All artificial humans function the same unless explicitly stated otherwise. Otherwise should we conclude Vegeta would be physically unable to go SSJ3, it's just your head canon that any sayian can go SSJ3.

Do you guys think Age 1000 is going to be a CAC game or will twink be the protagonist?

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So what new characters are confirmed for Sparking Zero DLC? I know the base game has 182 characters and DLC adds 27 new ones for a total of 209 characters, how does the number look after the announcement?

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>>555979519
>all artificial humans follow this rule I entirely headcanonned unless it's explicitly proven to be wrong, in which case only that specific case acts as exception and every other artificial human, no matter how fundamentally different one from other, still follow this rule, look at this strawman
Okay I have nothing else to add to this conversation. It was fun I guess.

>>555979080
>Superdivers already started adding Heroes original characters
Mira is a DBO character, and Chronoa is a Xenoverse character (Technically also DBO, but she wasn't shown there, Dimps came up with her design and changed her from Kaio to Kaioshin).

>>555979935
If it was exicitly said that Vegeta physically couldn't go SSJ3 you would assume Gohan couldn't go SSJ3?

>>555979956
>, and Chronoa is a Xenoverse character
Didn't she debut in Heroes?
Dispatch Time Patrol (manga) released on August 5th 2016, and Xenoverse 1 released on October 25 2016.

>>555979956
do you think that if chronoa's lore gets revamped for the current era they'll buff her station again to be something of the level of a GoD or angel or something?

>>555979565
>So what new characters are confirmed for Sparking Zero DLC?
King Piccolo
Super 17
Super Saiyan Bardock
Grandpa Gohan
Champa
Devilman
Tao Pai Pai
Zangya
Pikkon
We were at 208 so it's 217 now, and It's confirmed these aren't all the characters we are getting

>>555979545
we don't have nearly enough to go off to make a solid judgement on that we'll have to wait til the battle hour I think he's another Shallot, he's a character but his fighting style is using moves from others like Shallot does.

>>555979935
Android 16, 17, and 18 have appear to have literally identical powers, which are more likely to your audience at home that Android 16, 17, and 18 have identical powers, or that 16 has an entirely fundementally diffrent power set despite there being no evidence of that. It seems far more silly to invent three entirely diffrent power sets that a re fundamentally diffrent from each-other for 16, 19 and 20 despite all five having the same basic abilities.
It is your head canon that there are 5 sets of powers that give flight, super strength, and blasts of undetermined nature.

>>555980552
>It is your head canon that there are 5 sets of powers that give flight, super strength, and blasts of undetermined nature
That's the powerset of literally every single Dragon Ball character? What are you going on about

>>555981029
Yes, and if it wasn't explicitly stated that the (non-cell) Androids were different, I wouldn't be suggesting any divide at all.
You are suggesting a non-expliciitly stated subdivision, between each type of Android, when you admit these things are identical in function.

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why isn't 21 in SZ?

>>555981851
Not everyone is the same person dude

>>555980226
>and Xenoverse 1 released on October 25 2016.
2015. You're thinking of Xenoverse 2. IIRC Xeno Trunks was added to Heroes as a Xenoverse cross promotion (He's also a DBO character, but Xenoverse is the more relevant game), then at some point Heroes stopped retelling GT and went the time patrol route.

>>555980235
I'm not so sure. Beerus is part of Xenoverse 1 and she's strictly below him in authority, but that's before Zeno. If they were to update it I'd imagine she would be on equal footing to him (Specially since later stuff revealed gods of destruction aren't even meant to be above Kaioshins in authority, they're equals who should work together, but Beerus is an incompetent asshole).

>>555983728
Beerus is part of Xeno 1 yeah but only BoG movie lore, yeah? We have a lot more stuff since then

>>555983018
because the games aren't made by the same people?

>>555979080
I wanna fug fin

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This latest batch of DLC reminds me of all the datamined characters back during launch. I wonder if we're getting everyone listed here.

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>>555984768
Well we got Pikkon, King Piccolo, Spike the Devilman, Tao, Zangya, Grandpa Gohan, Champa, Super 17, and Super Saiyan Bardock confirmed
That's already eight out of the 27-28-ish (the blank one between Baby and Syn is definitely Super 17), plus Super Saiyan Bardock (makes me wonder if they'll give his Minus outfit the transformation too)
More TOP characters are highly likely (the furries are an easy pick), some like Jaco are easy inclusions, might even see Arale return alongside someone new like Beelzebub

I want to see who /vg/ plays, who are your top 5 Sparking Zero characters?

>>555987380
>some like Jaco are easy inclusions
I now expect Jaco to be pushed back for the eventual Galactic Patrol pack

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>>555987696
>Vegetto (Base, SSGSS)
>Kale (Base, SSJ, LSSJ)
>Goku Black (Base, SSR)
>Z Broly (Base, SSJ, LSSJ)
>Kefla (Base, SSJ)
i pretty much never use Kefla's SSJ2 form. i like the spiral beam as a Pretty Cure reference, but the red and green color scheme is not my favorite color way.

>>555987696
I only play Raditz

They should add Gogetto SSJ4 Blue Ultra Instinct Ego to the game

I have made sweet love to a saiyan space pirate woman and have decided to become evil

>>555983018
she doesn't like kusoge

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>>555987380
Super 17 wasn't a separate slot, all transformations and alt versions of characters are coded under the base forms. Though for some reason Nail is listed under Piccolo and Cell Jr under Cell as shown on the previous list.

>>555988073
Nah, Jaco should've been in the base game. I feel like a Galactic Patrol Pack would look more like this:
>Giant UI Goku
>Grand Supreme Kai
>Merus
>Irico
>Jiya
>Pybara
>Cranberry
>Saganbo
>Shimorekka
>OG73-i
>Elder Moro
>Full Power Moro
>73 Moro
>UI 73 Moro
>Giant 73 Moro

>>555990110
Odd, didn't think he would count as a Transformation but guess it kinda makes sense.

>>555984768
I want to play as Grand Minister.

>>555990220
Considering what we saw in the trailer, it wouldn't surprise me if they actually DID make Super 17 a transformation this time around.

>>555990110
>Irico
>Jiya
>Pybara
>Cranberry
>Shimorekka
I like your enthusiasm but these are not happening, and I also feel like you too many Moros. I would like his old form but I think it would be just Full Power and Fused with 73. And his "Giant" form is definitely not making it in except maybe as an attack, it's just too deformed to be playable.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOTi9lHUYoU

Full video for age 1000

>>555990590
Yeah pretty sure we're getting Hellfighter 17

>>555991026
To be fair, there was that guy in the last thread who made a moveset and stats for each Moro form, though even he made Giant Moro an ultimate. It'd just be weird to have Giant UI Goku without a Giant Moro to fight.

>>555993156
Alright, having 3 separate base 17s is pushing it a bit. I feel like Super 17 should be a transformation for DBZ 17, while also giving him his ranger jacket as an alt costume.

>>555993228
The big UI susanoo Goku should not be a separate character that is ridiculous. Same with "Giant Moro", it's just a big goofy arc finale thing and would not work as a character

>>555993358
and Daima ssj4 should have been a transformation for Endku but they are clearly not mixing any iterations of characters

>>555993070
If Age 1000 is another CAC game like Xenoverse, they should give us more than 8 slots for our CACs. Games like Smash and SF6 let players have up to 100 CACs to switch between.

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>have to level 100 CaCs to level 199

>>555995727
That's why they should also have the CACs share experience, that way players don't have to slog through the campaign a zillion times for each slot. I mean, if I remember correctly, isn't that how XV1 did it?

>>555993597
>but they are clearly not mixing any iterations of characters
IIRC Vegetto is an exception to the point both End Goku and Vegeta, and DBS Goku and Vegeta, can fuse into him, and I think the Z versions just can't go SSB.

I wonder if SSJ4 will appear in the Super remake, that would be the perfect opportunity to introduce it. I also still wish for the day of SSJ4 + Ultra Instinct to have a white version of SSJ4

>>556001862
>I wonder if SSJ4 will appear in the Super remake
It won't
>I also still wish for the day of SSJ4 + Ultra Instinct to have a white version of SSJ4
This on the other hand is guaranteed to happen if Toyo ever gets to continue the manga with any sort of creative input, but that also seems unlikely

>>555976963
powerlevel fags talking about how consistent power levels used to be ignoring how the actual narrative itself was completely unhinged

>>556003714
SS4 will happen.
I had a drea where Goku said
>WakuWaku Desu ne~ I had a really powerful form Bills-sama but I can't seem to use it *crusty ss4 Daimaku jpg flashes on screen for a split second*
Then Goku kissed Whis on the lips getting both of them pregnant with that Natrual perfection guy, you know the green guy who wears Jiren's outfit? Him they give birth to each half and need to fuse them together to birth him.

>>556007747
this is why angels are forbidden from relations

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>these old MCU roadmap meme pics came true
>but instead of new stuff for new characters
>its simply rehashing Super all over again
Saiyan's Paw.

I have a question, you know how Miura died before Berserk was completed and his assistants have taken it upon themselves to finish the story?

Is it possible for that to happen to Dragonball and still be accepted? As far as I know the series has had about 20 chapters since his passing but I honestly haven't heard how receptive to this the fans are or if anyone is even still keeping up.

I do however feel a bit conspiratorial and these remakes and the galactic patrol arc being adapted are a test run to see how profitable the series can be with Toriyama's death they really don't seem willing to accept he's dead and gone considering how that event talked about him like he was still alive and slapping his name on every single dragonball thing that came out while removing toyotaro, he wasn't even invited to the event.

I mean Dragonball is such an iconic franchise that without Toriyama and Nozowa being there it probably won't survive or rather japan doesn't want it to survive without them, she's gonna be 90 this year, there's no way she's gonna live long enough for them to adapt all of super into a psuedo merge with manga content along with the the two manga only arcs and the retelling of super hero from prequel to main event to epilogue.

This entire project could take 3 to 6 years entirely.

>>556015624
No, because Toriyama wouldn't have left any fucking notes outside of the projects he was already working on. Not to mention we already have the end.

>>556015624
toriyama name is there cause it's all shit he worked on almost 10 years ago, galactic patrol arc was more than 6 years ago. Even the new age 1000 game they said it's been worked on for 7 years now, nothing they talked about is new and/or stuff Toriyama wasn't there when they were made

>>556014015
It's hilarious that the person who made this thought that Granola was worth 24 episodes, that arc is at most a movies worth of content.

>>556015624
DB's story is essentially over. If Age1000 is a successful game they can just move Toyotaro to adapt it into a manga format because it's far ahead in the timeline with OCs galore.

Black Frieza may never get arc of his own, he's there just to show that threats will always exist so Goku & co have a reason to constantly train to get stronger.

Can they even sell Black Freiza as a form in games since he only did two punches? all we know of him is that he's strong enough to fight UI Goku, UE Vegeta, CLSS Broly, Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan all at once. In fact, it's kinda doing the Boruto thing were we entered the story with a flash forward of boruto vs kawakii among the shattered remains of Konoha village, we're ending super on the beaten but not defeated main characters in their strongest forms fighting the main villain in his strongest form with no idea how the conflict started nor how it's gonna end.

Well, that's not true, end of Z is still the ending of the franchise we just don't know how this happened in between and how they came out of it okay.

I don't think they're being truthful about age 1000 being concepted that long ago, they said the same bullshit about Kakarot being canon and Sparking Zero taking 5 years it sounds impressive when the reality was likely bullshit meant to market the product more.

>>556017967
The way he pierced Gas can be Rush attack, same with him hitting Goku & Vegeta. And then what-if ultimate move like Black Supernova.
I mean Bojack's first form barely fought but he's still in plenty of games.

>>556018774
wasn't he in base when he did that?

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>>556019021
It's debatable, but colored version makes him quite black.

>>556017967
>I don't think they're being truthful about age 1000 being concepted that long ago
I'm sure the concept art for this character existed for a while
>Sparking Zero taking 5 years
In modern game development that sounds right for the product we got because well idk why it takes so long but that is just how it works nowadays for some reason

>>556020035
Man, the manga really loves the hand through the chest stab move, I think only Goku black and Zamasu didn't do it on that note, how the fuck did Gas not know he was dying? He not only looked like shit, his skin and bones were exposed, he didn't feel that at all?

>>556020817
The entire fight he was pumped with adrenaline. And yes there is a panel where he looks at a reflection of himself and he wonders what tf has happened to him.

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>guise there totally will be a new movie source: i made it up
What the HECK did he mean by this???

It just dawned on me the reason why Gekishin has barely included Super stuff is that they are waiting for Super Kai

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>>556022972
>is the guy Frieza is based on
>people flabbergasted that he's a megajew not to be trusted

Toei during the TOP was way better at doing gimmick / ability based fights than Toyotaro was with Moro.
There was more thoughts put into Freeza's beam cage to counter Dyspo's hyper dash than in any counter in the manga.

>>555980552
lmao android 18 literally has the same abilities as Krillin
They have different powers because they are different types of beings not because their moves are different, dumbass

Since the thread is focused on android autism do you think Cell could have grown exponentially stronger like 17 did

>>555993228
Spirit avatar Goku should be an ultimate move, not a character.

*Susanoo Goku

>>556030610
it's definitely Susnaoo Goku. lol

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>>556020035
>>556019021
It's not debatable.
>you see Freeza aura up for an instant the moment Gas is about to approach
>the shading of his skin around his mouth is lighter than the rest of his head
>has the big brow Golden and Black have but normal Freeza doesn't
For someone who abuses speedlines so much Toyotarou was actually pretty smart with them here, he first used a low angle shot where you can interpret the shading as just a shadow on Freeza's body and then the speedlines of the attack to mask Freeza's body has changed to a darker tone all so you don't notice at first Freeza has a new, darker form, but once you have seen the next pages and look at Black Freeza you can easily spot the form appearing here-

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>>556030610
Giantification is a spirit control ability, narufag

>>556031462
>unintelligible tracetaro babble
it's literally just susanoo

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>>556032453
I'm sorry you keep getting banned and trying to pass your narufag illness on to others.

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>>556032874
>posts more traced scribbles

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>>556033395
>I swear my favourite yaoi created the energy avatar trope
Your ban was deserved, I see. Consider yourself discarded.

>>556031462
That's not gigantification tho, it's a giant energy avatar.

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>>555983887
Yeah, which's why I said if they were to revise Chronoa, they might put her on equal footing with Beerus. Though little would change in that case, her and Beerus almost never interacted after Xenoverse 1 in any continuity (IIRC, they have a brief interaction in Heroes' Big Bang Mission).

>>556020817
>I think only Goku black and Zamasu didn't do it
Black has no need to stab someone with his hand directly.
>>556031060
I did feel Toyotaro was hiding Black Freeza here, but didn't realize he used speed lines to hide it. Pretty clever.

>>556017967
>Can they even sell Black Freiza as a form in games since he only did two punches?
Not like this would be the first time game have added in characters who haven't done much. Shanks from One Piece has been in a couple of games despite not having a fight.

>>556017967
goku black got added to XV2 before he even premiered I think, they can figure something out

>>556034551
Yeah that's a weird point to make. Super Perfect Cell only did four things (Freeza's ki blast, a karate chop, another blast that broke Gohan's arm, and Solar Kamehameha), and we have a few cases of forms that did nothing at all getting in games (Z Broly's base form, Super Baby 1 who only ever threw a single punch). Black Freeza isn't unusual in that regard.

>>556033768
You literally see Pybara's gigantification glow as he undoes the trick, it's a body of energy as well

>>556023454
That would make sense, but it makes Toppo being added post release a little weird, plus Gammas and Hit are in base roster. Maybe Super Kai is planning to do more with regular Toppo?

>>556030073
Cell is Potential Man incarnated.
>Could have 17's growth
>Could have Freeza's growth and Golden/Black forms
>Could have Goku's and Vegeta's capacity of getting new forms with god ki
>Could have Piccolo's awakening/Orange forms
>Cell Jrs could have one of those things at least, or all of them at most

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YOOOOOOOO, get IN HERE, cute nigguhhhhhHHHHH!!!
>>>/vt/109097071

I hope we get a Black Frieza and Gronala arc, but we don't get Moro arc just to see how people react.

>>556037128
What? Moro arc is the confirmed one, we only expect Granolah because they have already confirmed to be working on the previously manga-exclusive arcs with Moro

>>556035281
Yeah they only need an original rush attack, his other blast 2 will just be a super duper blacked death beam and his ultimate can be a Beerus-like blacked death ball. They can even give him a move FF/Golden Freeza had in Super but they didn't include in the game, too

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>>556037851
Yeah, in particular, I can imagine them giving him something like, a Death Ball into his dash move that he used to knock out Jiren in the manga. And all of this is assuming the anime doesn't extend the Black Freeza vs Goku and Vegeta match to include a few more attacks (While still making the match one sided).

I hope Black frieza isn't the last Super arc. I want them to go on a vacation to Sadala.

>>556038560
We'll get the Ruby Frieza arc after instead and Goku White will show up and fuse with Rubyza

>>556035304
>That's your normal size?
Learn to read, anon. The page is showing him shrinking.

>>556036478
I'd guess the opposite. The super characters already included probably won't change much if at all

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just watched a 5 year old who was so lacking in brain function he kept walking into the GoD zone WHILE they were unavailable, STILL somehow manage to chip away at the thing until it was destroyed while i was sitting on it (due to the rest of my team also being 5 year olds and/or AFK)
they have GOT to change that shit man

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>>556040413
Are you shitposting? Or just this retarded?
>Toriyama's yardrats are small
>the elder is big
>he says "oh we do gigantification too" as he becomes small
>Vegeta asks if that thing he's seeing now (a small yardrat) is his normal size
>previously we had another yardrat talking about how they use their techniques to scare potential threads
>again, "GIGANTIFICATION"
Pybara is small, he just uses spirit control to appear himself bigger. And no, it's not an illusion, because we see Pybara physically interacting with others before that. If you can control ki like a yardrat (what they call "spirit control") you can make a big ass ki reproduction of yourself.

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>no SSG regeneration at top
>the bottom scene was originally in the movie version but with SS
Are we removing the healing powers and absorbed SSG? If so good riddance, it's criminal how until UI the best modern form we had was SSG and manga aside we only got to see it vs Beerus once.

>>556045646
honestly i didn't actually mind the idea of god ki getting absorbed... if it had actually mattered PAST the movies
as is they're better off getting rid of it unless they feel like remaking fucking everything just to work it back in properly instead of dumping it immediately afterwards

>>556045646
My bad I forgot it was also in the ToP, very briefly, the part with the giant robot was meh and he only used it one second against Jiren. So it was more like twice, first Beerus, then Kefla. And god damn SSG Goku vs base Kefla looked so much better than SSB Goku vs SS Kefla

>>556045646
How many times is SSG used in the manga? I don't think they will add all those to the new anime but some should be adapted

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>>556046632
>>556046821
The manga had
>first Goku uses it against Beerus
>then against Hit, saving SSB for the very last moment
>Goku uses it just for one second to oneshot Trunks
>then Vegeta uses it in tandem with SSB to fight Black
>at same time Goku uses it against Zamasu
>then Goku uses all his forms against Toppo to entertain Zeno
>Vegeta uses it in New Namek to make Moro reveal his plans
>both Goku and Vegeta bodies revert to SSG when Moro is draining them also in New Namek
>later Goku uses all his forms except Blue to test Merus
>and he goes SSG right away to fight Granolah('s clone)
There are eleven SSG transformations in the manga, ten if you don't count picrel. If I'm not missing any, the anime had
>the Beerus rematch from the first arc
>copying manga strat of switching from God to Blue to exchange a few blows with Dyspo
>Annilaza episode
>vs Kefla until they powered up to blue and green

>>556042095
caulifla sex

>>556043820
Yes, he make himself bigger, it's not like Susano Goku, it's like Piccolo growing. You are retarded.

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>>556048878
>making a big energy projection of yourself isn't like making a big energy projection of yourself, it's like Piccolo physically becoming a big organism

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NARUtaro

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Cute father and daughter moment

>>556050703
>It's a big energy projection despite not looking like one and not being called that, with the name directly saying it's making yourself giant because I said so based on nothing
You are retarded

>>556052416
You mean grandpa and granddaughter, remember Pan's father is Gohan, the son of Vegeta who inherited his RUTHLESS behaviour that solves pretty much everything

>>556053671
>it doesn't look like energy except for the energy we see glowing as the technique is undone, it doesn't mention energy except for the part when they say it's control of "spirit" and "spirit" is ki (energy) and they call it gigantification before explaining it's merely an energy thing, but I can't read so I have to assume gigantification just means his body growing, can we please just pretend he's doing the same thing Piccolo did???
No. Take the (You) and go back.

>>556054441
Gas was also using an even more primitive version with just the limbs and we know he gained spirit control from the wish too so it checks out, if that was really an UI ability Gas would have to go silver like Goku to pull it off

>>556054441
>>556055131
>the energy we see
Except there's no none, we just see the guy shrinking, you are once again retarded and your headcanon is shit.
>before explaining it's merely an energy thing absolutely nowhere except my ass while you have to assume what is clearly shown and said
Cool so Susano Goku was a completely different thing as is obviously shown and explained and it's obvious to everyone except your retarded ass.

The headcanon is having a tantrum again? He does that whenever people don't accept the weird shit he just came up with and that appear nowhere in the shitty manga pages he post.

>>556052416
writers for dragonball, including both fanfic and official products, will do ANYTHING but have pan interact with gohan it's bizzare

>>556056103
The only use Pan has to Gohan is to die so Gohan gets a power-up.

>>556035281
SS2 Goku and Vegeta barely do anything in the manga and even taking into account filler, it would at best be one super.

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>>556055875
There's a fucking light effect not present in Piccolo's case (the guy who became big in such a literal way Goku could enter his stomach).
Last time I tell you, take the (You) and go back, I don't care you were banned, try not to be a retard next time.

>>556056103
I mean, tbf, GT also had like maybe 2-3 scenes where Gohan and Pan interact in any meaningful way. Hell, even in EoZ, Pan spent more time with Goku and Goten then she did with Gohan.

>>556056282
>Last time I impotently schizo babble at you, don't point out my retarded headcanon isn't true again!!!
Lol, no.
>There's a fucking visual effect completely different Goku's Susano to show the shrinking movement!
So still not Goku's Susano
>literal way
You mean the same literal way as the big ass entirely physical Yardrat that then got physically smaller under our very eyes?

>>556056514
GT is what I was talking about in terms of official product, anon

>>556056282
I think he's taking the W instead of the (you), anon.

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>>556054049
>the son of Vegeta who inherited his RUTHLESS behaviour that solves pretty much everything
Including putting Vegeta on a leash.

>>556056514
>Hell, even in EoZ, Pan spent more time with Goku and Goten then she did with Gohan.
In the manga she's solely defined by her relationship with Goku, since she doesn't talk with anyone else. The anime version at least showed her interacting with Gohan a little.

>>556046409
What

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>gee I wonder why it's impossible to criticize DBM in the comment sect-

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>>556063185
>Sorry, but this is off topic. You can discuss such things on the forum or on our discord server.

>>556063185
>people try to talk about the universes, one of the few things DBM actually has
>ERM THIS ISN'T RELATED TO YOUR DOSE OF GASTSLOP, PLEASE BE QUIET AND KEEP THE COMMENT SECTION CLEAN

>>556046060
A few """insiders""" have come out and say these episode counts aren't correct.

>>556063083
That VTuber was REALLY into Piccolo while playing Kakarot.
>>556063185
Jannies are so retarded

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>>556023950
I thought that was pic related

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>>556030610
>>556030750
ripoff another 90 anime award

>>556068880
Narukeks...

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So i guess we're just going to berate Toriyama again but for not doing a golden warrior trope first in manga since Astro Power already did it via his 1 million horsepower state.

Why does Bardock in Gekishin wear a bandana? Why does he talk about changing the future? None of this shit is canon

Why didn't Goku use Kaiokek 100x on Perfect Cell? Is he stupid?

>>556073574
Because fans overwhelmingly prefer that version and it's the one they used in Kakarot

>>556073574
Because of some shitty special nobody likes or cares about.

>>556073574
You question that and not his capacity to turn super saiyan?

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i hope they do more stuff with universe 6 in the remake, so much potential

>>555971992
Anon sensei
So gero just over prepared just in case?
If so then he is a genius, because in one time line he kills goku.

>>556073574
Nudock is shit

>>556073574
Because it's the CHAD Bardock

>>556074739
I don't think there's room for it in the remake. I just hope they trim the stuff that doesn't work and then expand on it in stuff after the remake

>>556074739
The best they may be getting is actual muscles like in the manga and nothing else. In fact they could even lose SS2 since that's something Toei made up entirely

>>556073598
I assume because Cell would just match it. But then that raises the question of why Cell didn't do it against Gohan? So either he didn't think of it in his panicked state, or it has an upper limit. The choice is yours.

>>556076502
My personal headcanon is that super kaioken isn't really viable until blue due to ki control issues. If cell tried he'd wreck his body damn near instantly due to constantly being in a state similar to super saiyan

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>>556075929
>CHAD Bardock
he's not super saiyan 3 though?

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>>556077149
But he is a brilliant scientist!

>>556077042
>Kaioken is possible again due to SSB ki control
>oh yeah did we forget to mention SSB drains a lot of stamina?
What did toei mean by this

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>Fandom keeps glazing Bardock as this strong saiyan that could've beat Frieza if he was at least SS1
>Got one shotted by Dodoria's burp
>Only cool scenes is beating up Frieza Force fodder
Has there been any character that's propped by side material more then Bardock?

>>556065418
Could Goku beat him?

>>556074739
I like that monkey.

>>556078370
SS4 Gogeta.

>>556078370
Bardock going SSJ would still lose to Freeza's first form.

>>556078370
present trunks

>>556078370
>Fandom keeps glazing Bardock as this strong saiyan that could've beat Frieza if he was at least SS1
Since fucking when??? I've never seen anyone actually claim such a thing, nobody thinks Bardock was as strong as Goku was at the end of the Namek arc, so clearly SS Bardock wouldn't do shit
Also to answer your question, GT Gogeta, he's a tavestry and an insult to Goku and Vegeta but he was technically the strongest character and Toei somehow thought he was cool, despite being a glorified adult Gotenks (fursuit edition), so videogames made him an ultra OP monster and people got to like the guy.

>>556067904
>female
>thirsty for Piccolo
Many such cases!

>>556080371
>nobody thinks Bardock was as strong as Goku was at the end of the Namek arc, so clearly SS Bardock wouldn't do shit
Most people just ignore the whole "Super Saiyan is a multiplier" thing and assume turning SS would just push Bardock all the way to Final Form Frieza level

>>556080371
>Since fucking when???
Since the special where he kills one of Freeza's ancestors.

Raditz is substantially stronger than a Cyberman.

>>556080778
>people think Chilled is as strong as Freeza
Since fucking when?

>>556080780
What's funny is the statement I'm thinking of is probably from some Funimation dubism, but I'm fairly certain they have explained that because Raditz has battle tactics unlike a Saibamen, he is barely more formidable as a fighter.

>>555987696
>who are your top 5 Sparking Zero characters?
GT Goku, GT Goku (Super Saiyan), GT Goku (Super Saiyan 3), GT Goku (Super Saiyan 4), Pan (GT). GT Goku is the best character in the game :)

>>556083346
>Pan (GT)
Wait... that's not a Goku, you tryin' to trick me again?

>>556075205
Cell wasn't supposed to kill Goku. He was a separate project. Gero expected to kill Goku years before he'd have matured.

>>556081416
Retards always assumed that, don't ask me why.

You know speaking of cell and that other anon earlier who brought up Cell being a non-numbered android, Why DOESN'T he have a number? You can very easily chalk this up to it being an entirely different project to the artificial human stuff and therefore not subject to its naming scheme, but then you have android 21 which doesn't account for cell at all and pretends he doesn't exist as a number despite her following the same biological plan as cell

>>556083406
She has 1/4 of Goku's DNA, she is a Goku unlike Turles

>>556084017
That's not a Goku though, you won't get me this time

Sex with Goku

Sex with Pan

>>556084768
:(

>>556084587
Pan...

>>556084587
Vegeta...

I think Pan is a shit
I play as her on Sparking Zero as a sacrificial slot.

>>556084768
Goku...

>>556084768
Pan...

>>556084768
Majin Ozotto...

>>556084768
Piccolo...

>>556084768
Dolltaki...

Pan is a tailless monkey and that makes her worthless.
But this applies to all Tailless saiyans.
Age 10000 better have tails for saiyans if it's a cac game.

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Rough sex with 21

>>556085816
16...

>>556085816
I don't remember making this post...

>>556084768
Based

>>556085816
reminds me of a 4koma someone made back when she was popular

panel 1 she and some sap were in bed just as 21 pulls the covers over them
panel 2 covers russeling with hearts coming out of them and plap onomatopoeia, 21's tail is sticking out from under the covers
panel 3 bed is covered in an aura as the splurt effects show up
panel 4 21 removes the covers is now naked eating a cupcake with it's frosting on her face like a cumshot it's kinda wild that someone from Toriyama has this much sex appeal to her, usually it's just Bulma, 18 and Videl as a teenager nobody gives a fuck about her as an adult, oddly enough people started caring about Caulifla, Kale and Kefla more when they told us those two are around the same age as Trunks and Goten just a little older Cabba too.

>>556084768
Poperu...

>>556084587
If Girlku yes

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>>556090920
>Girlku

>>556091172
Why did they sexualize Vegeta

>>556091506
Who wouldn't?
He's the most kissable manlet.

>>556091609
Bulma...

>>556091609
Bulla...

>>556091609
Frieza...

>>556091609
Krillin on Pooicide watch!

>>556091609
Goku...

>>555970318
Why would you make an android weaker than that?

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>draw game

>>556096296
Based

>>556085783
Tailed Super Saiyans are so powerful that they refuse to animate one.

>>556100684
Bardock

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>>556100684
anon...

>>556101093
>brown tail
Why

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>>556101173
Because that's how GT did it

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>>556101329
Only for SS1, 3 had the golden tail

>>556101885
that's inconsistent between shots, isn't it?

>>556102145
I think it was just different between ssj and ssj3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9dU9b6MklA

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>>556101885
>>556102145
>>556102532
There are inconsistent shots of it. Some of them are gold, some of them are brown.

>>556103901
It kind of just looks like it's in his shadow for that frame but it could be

>>556105098
I'd just say it's uchiyama's usual cheap, ugly, poor art direction making it inconsistent
clearly they wanted it gold at the start but not all colorists got the memo and the "corrections" didn't bother to fix it

>>556101173
Because that's how Toriyama did it. Only the hair changes.

>>556102145
Yes. I can only imagine not everyone got the memo.

>>556109317
When has Toriyama ever illustrated a super Saiyan with a tail?

>>556109837
napkins probably

>>556110348
kek true

>>556109317
>>556109837
Toriyama hates tails, so he'd censor it. So the color is actually unkown when tansformed.

>>555976649
there is no sensical reason in-universe, Toriyama made the mistake of making Mecha Frieza and then having Trunks go super saiyan to defeat him, destroyed the power scaling in the arc. the Androids saga is trivially easy to fix by simply making it so Goku and Piccolo died on Namek and none of the remaining saiyans achieved super saiyan in Trunks' timeline, and also have none of the earthbound saiyans in the main timeline achieve super saiyan until they train in the hyperbolic time chamber in preparation for the Cell Games. Goku is already out of commission because of the virus, which neatly explains away why 16 17 and 18 are able to make mincemeat of the Z Fighters.

>>556042095
cauliflower is my favourite vegetable.

>>556111609
roasted or steamed?

>>556115758
creamed

>>556110656
He's certainly commented on it, if only to those that need to know. As it is a very consistent thing. Otherwise, ancient saiyans wouldn't be the canon exception.

>a bot in Squadra has clear path toward my DB which already had the shell shattered
>but because I chase it, it goes back to fight me (I'm a Bojack, it's #18, so I couldn't catch up on my own)
>I die, it narrowly survives
>it again has a clear path toward thevDB
>but (presumably?) because it has so little HP left, it teleports back to spawn point
>we win

Toriyama never drew a tailed SSJ, but because his SSJ4 has the hair including tail go red, I think by analogy we should consider the issue settled: golden tail.

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>>556117438
There are better ways of bumping the thread, sir.

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>>556117438
GT and episode of bardock are the only times we see tailed super saiyans, in EOB it's brown and in GT it's sometimes gold and sometimes brown. I think logically it should be gold though and they just forgot to colour it most times when it isn't gold.

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Episode of Bardock depicts Super Saiyan Bardock's as brown in the OVA itself, and that continues into everything that uses Super Saiyan Bardock afterward (every single game featuring him up to GS and SZ now).
Heroes is very consistent about the tails: they stay brown, no matter who. Radtiz, Nappa, Saiyan Arc Vegeta, the avatars, etc.
Legends gives a counterexample in the form of Shallot, but he's an exception because he has a black tail, same color as his hair, not a brown one like most other Saiyans (Bardock's remains brown in Legends, like other depictions).

Shallot's tail changes from yellow to red to blue so I imagine that the tail changes with the form so if Shallot gets Beast or Ultra Instinct or even Ultra Ego then his tail will change to the same color.

I only think about him because he's a toriyama character like 21 is

>>556119501
>>556122648
Shallot is an exception by virtue of being an ancient saiyan or some shit like that

>>556123440
Exactly. His tail is black, not brown.

>>556109317
>>556116776
Toriyama never drew tailed Super Saiyans. Ever. Your headcanon is baseless.

>>556125842
you could say he pulled on all their tails

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Wait did Piccolo really not hear the guy? Or feel?? Did it go like this in the manga?

>>556128129
He heard him in the manga but couldn't detect where the attack was coming from so he got ringed out anyways

>>556128129
He did sense Damon but couldn't locate it, in the manga he notices him with his hearing first but Damon was too small and eliminated Piccolo after the first attack missed

fusions 2

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Test

http://twitch.tv/xrdmain

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The goat shall return to the sparking realm.

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Since it seems they're adding Devilman to SZ, I wonder if they'll update the devilmite beam's damage values to be a little less silly.
>Gohan and Uub taking damage at all
>Grandpa Gohan as evil as Cell Games SS2 Gohan
>SS1 and SS2 Cell Game Gohans taking the same damage
>Various forms like Semi Perfect Cell and Third form Freeza taking less damage at random
>Kid Buu and Syn not taking the highest damage
>SS1 Goku (Mid) being treated as about as evil as SS1 Goku (End)
>SS1 and SS3 GT Goku inexplicably becoming more evil
>Recoome being treated as less evil than someone like Piccolo (Early) and only slightly more evil than SS4 Vegeta

>>556145547
>Grandpa Gohan as evil as Cell Games SS2 Gohan
I don't see the problem here, Gohan was pure of heart even if he was really mad and had malicious intent, Gohan, a pervert like his master, can just be evil enough to match that, still not actually bad guys, but still not pure.
>Kid Buu and Syn not taking the highest damage
Buu is supposed to be just pure and devoid of agenda which is why it was reincarnated so easily, he's not pure evil like the grey one, King Piccolo, etc. I agree Syn should take max damage tho
Also all SS forms, except kid Gohan's SS2 form, should take the same damage as their base forms. Being more excited and irritable doesn't mean you are a worse person, the whole "SS makes you a little evil" thing is Toei retardation they didn't even respect for the Genkidama sword

>>556145547
>saibamen have more bad juju than majin vegeta, super 17, and the entire frieza force
the FUCK is going through their heads? I thought they were just sort of feral assholes

>>556147198
They are demon realm plants

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>>556146096
>I don't see the problem here, Gohan was pure of heart even if he was really mad and had malicious intent, Gohan, a pervert like his master, can just be evil enough to match that, still not actually bad guys, but still not pure.
I'm not saying Granda Gohan should be a 0, but he raised Goku to be so pure hearted and taught Goku to be respectful of women. All that we know of his perversion is that he finds hot women attractive but that's too vague. Plus Devilmite beam explicitly enhances your evilness until you explode, so Grandpa Gohan should definitely be lower than Cell Games SS2 Gohan, who actually has maliciousness at the moment.

>Buu is supposed to be just pure and devoid of agenda which is why it was reincarnated so easily, he's not pure evil like the grey one, King Piccolo, etc.
I guess that makes sense.

>Also all SS forms, except kid Gohan's SS2 form, should take the same damage as their base forms. Being more excited and irritable doesn't mean you are a worse person, the whole "SS makes you a little evil" thing is Toei retardation they didn't even respect for the Genkidama sword
Yeah, I don't know why that became so widespread to the point Goku is almost never allowed to use Genki Dama when SS in games, and it got so silly that DBS didn't allow him to use it in SSB. I think Budokai 3/IW are the only exceptions. I'd argue SS1 Goku (Mid) at worst could take some more damage, but even in his case he showed a lot of restraint against Freeza.

If we had a universe 6 movie what would it be about?

>>556148325
Cabba and Champa invite our heroes to a vacation in Universe 6, Cabba wants to thank them for bringing all the universes back (and giving Vegeta that tour of Sadala he promised) while Champa wants to rub the fact that U6 is in a much better state than U7 in Beerus' face.

The conflict is that while they're enjoying a vacation some Saiyan cult that wants to return to monke and embrace their primitive warrior race roots (while reject the whole crime fighter thing) emerges.

>>556149206
Why is Universe 6 in a better state than Universe 7?

>>556149740
>no majin buu
>their frieza isn't dominating the universe
>their Saiyans are 10x stronger than U7's while also using their strength for good
>Fuwa is more experienced than Shin

>>556150080
It's still not doing great, mind, but better than "yeah we've got like 20 inhabited planets left" u7

Why are people so hellbent sure SS4 and SS3 are going to debut in DBS Beerus?
Who gives a shit about Daima? DBS can introduce it's own demon realm and super Saiyan 4 (although Toyoloco is probably going to retain what his the senile hack had in mind anyways)

>>556150848
I actually wouldn't mind a third Super Saiyan 4.

>>556145547
>Omega not all the way up
Is this because he's truly lawful evil/neutral?

>>556147806
Well, I was gonna mention how characters compared him to Roshi and how raising Goku doesn't mean you are 100% pure, just look at Roshi acting like a parent figure for Goku and Krillin (Krillin being a genuinely great person but still not 100% pure) but if I try to picture grandpa Gohan as someone as evil as Krillin I would have to agree he should take less damage than "no, I can't kill him yet, he needs to suffer"han

>I think Budokai 3/IW are the only exceptions
Actually no, using the Genkidama while transformed makes Goku absorb it (in a reference to the very same movie where Toei introduced the idea of SS being a little evil) and then use Dragon Fist. But I'm pretty sure a few videogames do allow Goku to use it even while transformed, I remember LoG2 doing it.

>>556096296
Where is her tail?

>>556151326
stored safely inside her

>>556145547
>Various forms like Semi Perfect Cell and Third form Freeza taking less damage at random
>>556145547
>Recoome being treated as less evil than someone like Piccolo (Early) and only slightly more evil than SS4 Vegeta
That's just because they have a higher defense value

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Good fucking riddance