https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NDTJF3rP2Q

thanks, I was trying to make a Strauss' Salome edition but for some reason my internet is acting up this morning. It failed the upload because the image! Anyway, here's a fantastic article I found about the opera Salome:
https://www.sfopera.com/digital/streaming-the-first-century/session-4-ho-jo-to-ho/session-4-salome-1974/

>The premiere in Dresden in December 1905 was an enormous success—and scandal. Some proper Dresdeners shunned the conductor (Ernst von Schuch) in the street when they encountered him. Gustav Mahler praised the score and was furious the Catholic censors in Vienna would not allow him to give the opera there. The German Kaiser forbid it in Berlin, until it was decided to have the Star of Bethlehem appear in the sky at the end of the opera as a sign of future redemption. (The Kaiser famously commented, “I’m sorry, I like Strauss otherwise, but with this opera he will do himself a great deal of harm.” To which Strauss later retorted, “The harm it did me enabled me to build the villa in Garmisch.”)

lol

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There's like five of these bel-canto obsessed modern-opera hating youtube channels that I keep getting recommended. Is one of them a /classical/ poster or did he just get his opinions from them?

>>129308544
I never quite understood the appeal of the Dance of the Seven Veils as an orchestral excerpt. The whole point of it seems to be as a dance accompaniment, and I can think of a great deal else in the opera that is more interesting on its own as music.

>>129308566
:O

To be fair, Maria Callas obsession isn't uncommon.

>>129308584
Applying that obsession as a critique of Rubinstein's Chopin playing is pretty uncommon.

>>129308582
People love to dance. No different than the Polonaise from Tchaikovsky's Eugene Onegin or Waltz from Prokofiev's Cinderella or anything from Johann Strauss. But yeah, I feel you. As far as excerpts go, I'm more into the Der Rosenkavalier suite. Now that's a masterpiece.

>>129308601
I would be very disappointed, and feel somewhat foolish myself, if it turns out RachAnon got most of his opinions from some YouTuber they worship and they simply parrot the opinions from their videos, particularly if it's the cause of their steadfast refusal to entertain any modern recordings of solo piano music. But I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and a pass if they were merely influenced by them.

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Wagner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OhBp-VVSu8&list=OLAK5uy_nH5PsZ_zv91jLAlRM2fpGj24Ho47T-ywk&index=24

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>>129308566
>did he just get his opinions from them
Norseposter regurgitates his opinions from them, as well as the Hofmann/Cortot channels that share the same link with the Maria Callas bel canto channels.

The peak of these youtube grifter types is the LaDivinaFanatic beta cantonese person on youtube that cries the usual youtube meme about le belcanto horizontal maria callas cortot hormann storm. Then you look up his performances of Apassionata and its one of the most embarrassing things you've ever heard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C91u1TwakRM

Yes, this is the power of people who digest youtube memes about OLD GOOD NEW BAD, they craft the worst music ever heard in history. This shit sucks so bad I would rather listen to Gould play Appassionata.

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now playing

start of Brahms: String Quintet No. 1 in F Major, Op. 88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjsnQ3qqZk4&list=OLAK5uy_mQw1XHurRwf8vtGBBYFhWUx-4BXbKrwbE&index=2

start of Brahms: String Quintet No. 2 in G Major, Op. 111
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGKexV43Gtk&list=OLAK5uy_mQw1XHurRwf8vtGBBYFhWUx-4BXbKrwbE&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mQw1XHurRwf8vtGBBYFhWUx-4BXbKrwbE

>Brahms composed his two published String Quintets amid the rural tranquility of Bad Ischl in Upper Austria and the works can almost be seen as an expression of escape from the 'urban stress' of nineteenth-century Vienna. The Quintets show Brahms standing at the pinnacle of the composition of chamber music, their gentle pastoral character being subtly shaded by a profoundly melancholy introspection. This disc follows up on the extraordinary success of The Raphael Ensemble's recording of Brahms's two String Sextets.

Overrated: Antonio Vivaldi. I'm tired of him. Stravinsky once said that Vivaldi wrote the same concerto 500 times. I disagree. Instead, I think he began 500 concertos and never achieved anything in them. So he kept trying over and over again without ever quite succeeding.

>>129308634
>if it turns out RachAnon got most of his opinions from some YouTuber
"If" - the guy has literally posted the channels to you where he gets his opinons from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p26qXU23l1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVCdW8QeEE

What's funny is that hes so obsessed about VERTICAL and HORIZONTAL from these channels, yet for a long time (well over two years I think) I had already told him about verticality in regards to another artist (of the modern era), yet its only when applied to OLD GOOD NEW BAD meme channels like the one above where he began to parrot these words into infinity.

>>129308725
But are the meme channels actually wrong?

>>129308725
Well, it's possible they simply thought those videos did a good job of explaining their perspective and position. But yes, it is also possible that, when getting into classical, they found this guy's channel and adopted all of their opinions and have remained loyal to them above all else, like a religious orthodoxy.

Like I said, benefit of the doubt.

>>129308768
>Rubinstein's Chopin is very cold, it's not surprising at all.
But most people do like Rubinstein's Chopin, just as most people do also like Maria Callas.

>>129308773
>those videos did a good job of explaining their perspective and position.
You don't say.
Again, it seems you're not very bright, discussing anything at all with the schizophrenic /metal/tourist and being this shallow, and perhaps deaf. But that should've been obvious to me long time ago.
>>129308780
Most people is not an excuse, try again.

>>129308768
>I suppose you're not a very bright person.
...really?

>I simply prefer the more skilled interpreters, why wouldn't I?
If you wanna say they play in a way which better suits your musical preferences, then fine, but to claim they're outright more skilled at playing the piano is ridiculous.

>>129308792
>If you wanna say they play in a way which better suits your musical preferences
No I say they are more skilled performers, which is objectively true.

>>129308739
Yes, they push a narrative that sloppy shite playing is acceptable so long as you add as much sappy rubato as possible. The idea of any sort of restraint or classicism is totally disregarded by them, they believe that there can be no emotion besides sentimentality, that any reduction in rubato is a crime or lesser behavior. In other words, these are the opinions of teenage women wanting love songs and jazz type playing.

I've said before, but if modern pianists played even half the amount of wrong notes and trashy rythmes as the people in the past did, these same meme channels (and norseposter via regurgitation) would be SCREAMING about how modern players are garbage performers who "can't even hit the right notes". Its total delusion, its completely narrative driven nonsense.

>>129308809
thanks for the schizo-essay, perhaps it's time foe you to return to >>>/metal/

>>129308809
>rythmes
*rhythms*

For me, it's Mozart's Clarinet Concerto in A Major, K. 622
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVgdHjL4a-4

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>>129308773
>when getting into classical, they found this guy's channel and adopted all of their opinions and have remained loyal to them above all else, like a religious orthodoxy.
That would be correct. Anything that promotes old good new bad (from here henceforth OGNB) is something he is going to digest and install into his narrative driven dogma. You have to understand that everything he believes stems forth from that philosophy, why do you think he's so obsessive about his Edward Dutton posting? He was the exact same way on /metal/, he didn't like a single modern band, nor do I think he even gave any modern bands a shot besides Kaevum because they were a racist NSBM band that sounded exactly like the old bands. And if you don't believe that, here he is posting Hitler and promoting Mendelssohn (lol, also I've never seen him mention Mendelssohn since) to own his fellow /metal/ posters while promoting his favorite Obtained Enslavement and nazi Kaevum band:

https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/124087051/#124101426
And if you don't believe thats him, here he is using he iconic "imbecilic sister" with the same filename and picture, again in regards to Kaevum
https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/122239572/#122239811

>>129308926
thanks for the schizo-essay >>>/metal/

Regarding Bach’s keyboard pedagogy specifically, Forkel relates:

>Hand position [is] with fingers bent so that each finger can remain at the surface of the key when playing. Fingers should play with equal pressure and draw back toward the palm of the hand. Pressure is to be transferred from finger to finger and is described in a way that suggests complete legato. Tone quality is said to be enhanced by this approach, especially if the fingers glide along the keys with equal pressure. The fingers are to be raised very little from the surface of the keys, and when one finger is in use, the others remain quietly in position

G-Gouldsisters, our response? *gulp*

What the fuck is going on this thread? Who's this metal schizoposter?

Bach titled the collection of Two- and Three-Part Inventions:

>Forthright instruction, wherewith lovers of the clavier, especially those desirous of learning, are shown in a clear way not only 1) to learn to play two voices clearly, but also after further progress 2) to deal correctly and well with three obbligato parts, moreover at the same time to obtain not only good ideas, but also to carry them out well, but most of all to achieve a cantabile style of playing, and thereby to acquire a strong foretaste of composition.

G-G-Gouldsisters... not like this...

>>129308987
the /metal/schizo is the one who conatantly writes empty essays and posts pictures of medtner and alkan, constantly passive-aggressive, often replies to himself to flood the thread.

>>129308987
It's more than one guy.

>One of the main features of Beethoven’s technique was a legato cantabile tone. Czerny writes, “He went through CPE Bach’s treatise, making me aware of the legato of which he had such an unrivalled command, and which all other pianists considered unfeasible at the fortepiano. Choppy and smartly detached playing was still in favor then” as it had been in Mozart’s time. Beethoven created a new kind of singing tone and many unimagined effects by his use of the pedal. Beethoven once told his student von Breuning that he intended to write a Piano Method, which unfortunately never happened. This would have included performance instructions and program
descriptions for his different piano sonatas.

>>129308987
Norseposter aka Rachanon aka Chopindian aka Indian Child. Turned into a schizospammer screeching at others to go back to /metal/, yet hes actually from that general himself.He came here from /metal/ in late 2024 and spent the majority of his time also having spam wars with the sisterposter who used to call him indian child.

https://desuarchive.org/mu/search/text/%22indian%20child%22/page/2/
And did the same thing on /metal/
https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/122425389/#122428418

Basically a total projection and meltdown.

>>129309037
>>129309037
>screeching at others
I think he's only screeching at you, and deservedly so.

>>129309064
Correct.

>>129309064
Incorrect. Many times he believes other people are me and mistakenly replies to them believing them to be his evil enemy.

And what makes you believe there is any deserving? Hes screeching because he had a meltdown over being mocked and then committed to spamming every day he wakes up in his Indian mudhut. Sorry he couldn't take some banter or having someone bust his balls a little, thats what happens when you listen to Chopin and black metal while being a male belly dancer in Mumbai I guess.

>>129309116
>Many times he believes other people are me
We saw from the last thread that you do that >>129308436, not him >>129308430
You're not as cunning as you think you are.

>>129309144
Neither one of those are me, not my problem other people enjoy fucking with a spastic Indian as well.

My latest favorite latest line from norseposter was suggesting his evil bully was turning the thread into "/pol/", yet hes the literal wignat nazi that spammed hitler all day on /metal/. I mean nothing that comes out of his spergy Indian mouth is anything but projection.

https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/118445438/#118446666

>>129299511
This steins gate girl used to be posted a lot in /metal/

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now playing

start of Langgaard: Symphony No. 2, "Varbrud" (Awakening of Spring) , BVN 53
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNAQaDraAbA&list=OLAK5uy_lFnSOcvGIv8YqBwu5veXviIUh66tPlJIc&index=2

start of Langgaard: Symphony No. 3, "Ungdonsbrus - La Melodia" (The Flush of Youth - La Melodia) , BVN 96
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZks1hKOSQ4&list=OLAK5uy_lFnSOcvGIv8YqBwu5veXviIUh66tPlJIc&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lFnSOcvGIv8YqBwu5veXviIUh66tPlJIc

>>129308926
>He was the exact same way on /metal/, he didn't like a single modern band, nor do I think he even gave any modern bands a shot besides Kaevum because they were a racist NSBM band that sounded exactly like the old bands.
That's pretty damning.

>>129309037
perhaps this board is not for you at all, maybe try >>>/soc/ or >>>/x/?
>>129309373
yeah, damning schizophrenic.

>>129299511
>listening to movements separately
Wow mahos a tourist, baka

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Satie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzxPQrP3dzo&list=OLAK5uy_kTi0sucUy2SflbM62KF-ZGuNkeoXd_VfQ&index=15

>>129309373
You know its funny because somewhere in mid 2024 I just told him to move over to classical since the only metal he liked were tasteless melodic bands playing overly sentimental and emotional melody (not surprising he clings to Rach and Chopin while suggesting they are greater than composers such as Beethoven) with casio keyboard sparkles in the background that don't fit into the extreme aesthetics of the genre. He did end up taking my advice later that year despite arguing with me about it.

I would be cautious of any opinion he has that isn't in relation to saccharine melodic composers (Its what drives his insistence of romantic era over everything else), I don't think he actually likes Beethoven or Bach, but he'll tell you he does anyways, and he'll listen to them because he's interested in keeping up appearances within the western canon to give himself credibility. You'll never find him promoting any lesser known composer or performer though, he's very much a slave to popularity and opinion, although many here believe the same, so he's in familiar company in that regard.

>>129309552
so all the times the MahlerAnon asked the RachAnon to try a modern recording he was wasting his time? sad

Aiight guys, that's enough >>>/soc/ content, let's get back to /classical/ please. Ain't nothin' that Beethoven's 9th can't fix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKkonUJQ6IQ&list=OLAK5uy_kiX_lLd4xLpcmhBEk_Inm6C9ISm5jA7hg&index=1

>>129309582
After you my fellow metal enthusiast

Speaking of which Norseposter, when are you going to get into Mozart and his melodies? I've been waiting for you to make that connection, although I notice you don't pretend to like Haydn much (too similar to Beethoven I imagine, but without the same authority in popular opinion to bother pretending to like), I'm sure you could find someone playing Mozart's music in a sentimental sappy way you love. Maybe he's still too classically reserved for you, sad!

>>129309584
Correct. I never bothered posting new bands to norseposter besides a handful of times, and no one else did either, its literally a complete waste of time. Should have been pretty obvious with how he immediately shoots them down with the same rhetoric every single time without even making a slight concession that someone new did anything well at all. All you can do is feed him more old sappy stuff he already likes.

>>129309601
Yeah this tripfag and /soc/ turbofaggotry is exhausting to go through. I'm just trying to read some actual discussions about music and find links.

>>129308964
>>129308992
Time goes on, interpretations change, and techniques improve?

>>129309658
>I'm just trying to read some actual discussions about music and find links.
This place used to be a bit better for that. At least there's still (some) links.

>>129309680
>actually bothering to reply
Bach was speaking towards the harpsichord (which is what Gould was emulating) of his day which has tiny sustain and no dynamics making the "cantabile" quotation have no meaning in regards to modern piano playing. Organs at least have sustain, so should at least be plausibly related, but still nothing compared to the Chopin-esque style of the modern era.

everyone one:
absolutely everyone:
still everyone:
every single soul:
literally everyone:
even Mozart (still alive):
even yuja wang:
random incel on 4chan: WAGNER IS LE BEST COMPOSER EVAR!!! W.
[everyone disliked that]
barenboim: wait that's illegal
glenn gould: ok that was lowkey on point
scriabin: slaps roof of car Schloezer did i ever tell you about the time i wrote a piece to bring about the end of the world? it was an epic moment.
Schloezer: is retarded
CIA: Bane?
Wagner's ghost: hey don't google HP Lovecraft's cat name
[OP googles hp lovecrafts cat name]
CIA: congratulations you got yourself caught!
Chopincel: flies past in a spaceship ooooh i dont care what universe you're from that's GOTTA HURT
[everyone laughed]
Dave Hurwitz: you're breathtaking!
area 51 guards:i bet i can take Hurwitz
Dave Hurwitz: you sure about that
Dave Hurwitz: anally rapes and spitroasts all area 51 guards with his black boyfriend
area 51:wait thats illegal
Everyone liked that
CIA: am I joke to you?
Mahoposter: I am a gay pedophile who likes little girls
[everyone disliked that]
kraut: I'm gonna post notations
Alt right incels: there's no way classical can be good agai....
Alma Deutscher: hold my beer
Big chungus joined the chat
Drumpf has left the chat
/classical/lets: 'Yeah, I'm thinking this is kind of epic based pilled, maybe a bit of a coom moment?? Idk think I might post a link.

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>>129309784
Alma Deutscher liked this post

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Anyways, back to Feinberg, still chewing through his works since hes a tough nut to crack. His fourth is apparently inspired by the same poem as Night Wind was, interesting that it inspired two different piano sonatas both from complicated dark composers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqmbCrkq7aA&list=OLAK5uy_mSDE3jrVHAL46Jk8uEEBj7UHZBmU-1J5A&index=6

Normally I don't care for inspirations, but it does pique my interest for its influence:

Why moan, why wail you, wind of night,
With such despair, such frenzied madness?
Why is your voice now full of might,
Now piteous and tinged with sadness?
In tongue known to the heart, of pain
Unknown to it for ever chanting,
At times within it well-nigh frantic
Sounds you awaken and insane.

Sing not, O wind, your fearful song
Of chaos, for the hungry spirit,
Into night's world of shadows flung,
Exults in it and strains to hear it.
The bounds of mortal flesh 'twould fly
And merge with boundless ocean sweeping.
Take heed! Let slumbering tempests lie:
Beneath them chaos stirs unsleeping.

>Gould hater
Ever try enjoying the music and instead of being angry all the time?

>>129310100
We love Gould here, although I must admit his Appassionata second movement is a straight up troll.

The only Italian composers I know are Vivaldi, Monteverdi, Respighi, Puccini and Verdi.
Are there any others I should check out?

>>129310373
Scarlatti, and also his Spanish equal Soler.

>>129310373
Sgambati, Scontrino, Martucci, Alfano, Respighi, Pizzetti, Casella, Liviabella, Dallapiccola, Petrassi and especially Ghedini.

>>129310373
>>129310466
Oh and Busoni. Plus I always forget Clementi was Italian, hes super good and really under recognized imo, if you like Beethoven's sonata shes a must listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDr9jZ3YvxM&list=OLAK5uy_moKtuz8zZ6jMSh7YawI1-QXMD_zDDXyIE&index=10

>>129308566
>Is one of them a /classical/ poster or did he just get his opinions from them?
he doesn't browse here, the Maria Callas guy is a conservatory pianist

don't ask me how i know
>>129308768
>Rubinstein's Chopin is very cold, it's not surprising at all.
only his stereo recordings, really.

>>129310509
>shes
Whoops, *he* lol.

>>129308691
what are you smoking? that's a great performance

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>>129310683
>that's a great performance
Even his diehard fantatics (and when I say diehards, I mean it, they worship this idiot) in the comments agree this is garbage, says a lot about you to actually enjoy that trash.

Btw what are you favorite performers? Just want to know who to avoid in the future.

abandon university.

>>129310733
Goode, Kempff, Gould, Pollini, Backhaus, Gulda, Schiff, the list goes on...

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>>129310733
>it's sloppy

>>129310858
Yeah too bad LDF isn't playing with any passion, I mean people are literally calling him a MIDI in the comments. He is neither a clarity/machine-like structuralist, nor a passionate singing slopper. Hes just trash all around, just how poor is the ear of this general? Who the fuck are you people?

>>129310855
Lol.

>>129310466
>>129310493
>>129310509
Alright, I'll check them out.
>>129308566
The only channel like those that I've seen was this one by a femcel that used to be an opera singer. I think she was ok.

>>129310946
>I mean people are literally calling him a MIDI in the comments
that's because 99% of classical listeners are retards who think "passionate = slow"

>>129310985
No its because hes playing Beethoven like its fucking Alkan's Le festin d'Esope you deaf retard.

>>129311016
>hes playing Beethoven like its fucking Alkan's Le festin d'Esope
...good?

>>129310858
Gouldsisters...we won

>>129311049
Thank you retard.

>>129311087
Gould is literally the opposite of sloppy, you must be a cousin of the other retard.

I like The Four Seasons and The Nutcracker. I then asked for recommendations and was told to listen to Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto no. 1 and Symphony 6. I really liked the former and didn't like the latter. I was also recommended Rachmaninoff's Concerto 2 which I did really like.
I also enjoy Mozart's 39th and 40th and Schubert's 9th. What else should I listen to?

guys retard here, is a fugue technically the same as a variations on a theme? also give me baroque examples of a variations on a theme piece

>>129311103
gould's soul is sloppy, not his fingers.

>>129311505
>is a fugue technically the same as a variations on a theme
no
>give me baroque examples of a variations on a theme piece
doesn't exist

>>129311558
but theres a recurrent motif in a fugue its kind of the same, no?
>doesn't exist
then post some good one, not baroque

>>129311576
>its kind of the same
do you not have ears?

>>129311593
explain then

>>129311449
basically just work your way through the most popular and most played pieces.
why not go French and try some Saint-Saens with his 3rd symphony called the organ symphony and his 5th piano concerto called the Egyptian.

>>129311593
>>129311558
elaboration needed

>>129309953
Not bad.

>A baroque variation on a theme doesn't exist
/classical/'s greatest pseud mind right there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HynpKOlESU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNMhfTol9_g

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For today's opera performance, we listen to Britten's A Midsummer Night's Dream conducted by Britten himself.

opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRfR-nvI8Uo&list=OLAK5uy_lxcpuTnvJ-p24i73Pi-wbRPEJUZkI0LPI&index=2

random vocal movement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjpH8ISWLX8&list=OLAK5uy_lxcpuTnvJ-p24i73Pi-wbRPEJUZkI0LPI&index=2

>Following the premiere of A Midsummer Night's Dream, one critic proclaimed the opera "an achievement far beyond the capacity of any other living composer." Another called it "dreadful" while still another marveled at the score's "audacious inspiration . . .in which extreme economy of invention and lavish imagination walk hand-in-hand in truly dream-like amity." Sure enough, you know you're in another world when you hear the work's strange orchestral introduction. And, what is the symbolic purpose of a countertenor singing the role of Oberon? This is a typical Britten opera--ravishing, highly original, and controversial. This recording, made six years after the premiere, features the composer as conductor, Peter Pears as Lysander, and Alfred Deller, who created the role of Oberon. The production has immediacy, dramatic energy, and terrific singing by a superior cast, effectively negating the need to consider either of the two more recent recordings. -- David Vernier

>>129309680
>techniques improve?
Evidently not.
>>129310527
I like some Rubinstein recordings, but I haven't heard many that weren't cold. He's not much different from Zimerman, Pollini, Ashkenazy.
>>129311449
Beethoven's 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, Kletzki, Wand or Blomstedt(rather slow) cycles, or the superior Furtwangler recordings if you can handle the hiss.
Sonatas, start with the named ones (tempest, pathetique etc). Schnabel for the best experience, or Backhaus (mono). There's also Barenboim, Arrau (slow) etc.

>>129309650
>>129309758
thank you /metal/slopper it's time for you to get back >>>/metal/

>>129311449
usual copypasta:
Try Beethoven's 3rd and 6th and 7th and then 9th symphonies. Mozart 39, 40, 41. Tchaikovsky 4 and 6. Dvorak 8 and 9. Schumann's and Brahms' symphonies, Haydn's Paris Symphonies, Bruckner's 5th and 7th and 8th, Mendelssohn's 3rd, 4th, and 5th.

Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto no. 1. Beethoven piano concerto 4 and 5. Mozart piano concertos 19 through 27. Bach's Keyboard Concertos (I prefer the versions with piano, look up the ones performed by Schiff). Schumann's Piano Concerto. Rachmaninoff's other piano concertos (1, 2, 4).

Beethoven and Brahms' and Tchaikovsky's and Dvorak's and Mendelssohn's violin concerto. Bach's violin concertos and double concerto.

Beethoven's violin sonata 7, 8, 9, and 10. Bach's violin so
natas and partitas (1, 2, and 3 for both). Mozart's violin sonatas. Brahms' violin sonatas.

Dvorak's cello concerto. Schumann's. Haydns'. Beethoven's cello sonata 3 and 4. Brahms' cello sonatas. Bach's cello suites. Prokofiev cello sonata. Mendelssohn cello sonata 2.

Beethoven's piano sonatas, all of the ones that have a named title (eg Pathetique, Waldstein, Moonlight, Les Adiuex, Tempest). some Mozart piano sonatas. Bach's Well Tempered Clavier, both books. Schubert's piano sonatas D.960 and 959 and 958(?). Prokofiev piano sonata 6. Chopin Ballades and Etudes 10 and 25.

Beethoven's string quartets 12-16, then 1-11. Mozart's 'Haydn' string quartets and string quintets. Brahms' string quintets. Dvorak's string quartet 12. Mendelssohn string quartet 6.

Bach's cantatas, 51 and 140.

Try a couple from each and keep exploring whichever form you like the most at that moment. Feel free to come back and ask whenever you can't decide and/or need help deciding on recordings (the recording, as in the interpretation and performance, matters a ton, as it can change the sound, power, and emotions of the music dramatically). Come back when you've listened to it all. Enjoy!

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>>129311769
>or the superior Furtwangler recordings
Did insomnia also make you listen to old shitty recordings?
Yes, we Chopincels know that.

>>129311803
>>129311769
>>129311746
rec me atonal fugue

>>129311505
No.
Passacaglia and chaconne are the variation genres of the baroque. Here's the best one, followed by a fugue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqPz4FVjy5E&list=OLAK5uy_kdsDgIuTrXqOOa4Px46UV6S-XLHr9ylIs&index=2
>>129311821
There's no such thing. Strict fugue is not possible in atonal language. Closest you'll get:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xjKzc8quPo&list=OLAK5uy_lYBFEd52S66pRVrSuyaHOwENCtan5gbdk&index=1
>>129311817
thank you /metal/slopper

He was the greatest US contribution to classical music before he died and he was gay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRL447oDId4

>>129311769
>Beethoven's 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th
>>129311803
>Try Beethoven's 3rd and 6th and 7th and then 9th symphonies

I usually don't like much when there are massive changes in volume across a piece of music, though thinking that this happens more often in Beethoven is a feeling more than anything. But thank you for the recs, I've already listened to 5th and 9th and they are fine, not really my thing maybe.

>>129311628
Will listen to those as well, thanks.

>>129311505
>>129311670
peep Brahms' Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Handel which contains both!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variations_and_Fugue_on_a_Theme_by_Handel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9tbCkACbGU

>>129311906
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-b66huLuFE

>>129311902
>He was the greatest US contribution to classical music before he died and he was gay.

Ives was straight though?

>>129311882
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xjKzc8quPo
Asked for an atonal fugue, not some generic background horror music. I should have precised in the style of Bach. Thanks for the slop
>>129311882
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqPz4FVjy5E
orchestra bach is blasphemy. Thanks tho, never heard of passacaglia and chaccone

>>129311449
>>129311906
another copypasta:
Here are some good starter youtube channels which really helped me out when I first seriously got into classical,

https://www.youtube.com/@incontrariomotu (focus on older recordings, generally Russian musicians)
https://www.youtube.com/@cgoroo (focus on classic recordings)
https://www.youtube.com/@olla-vogala4090
https://www.youtube.com/@AshishXiangyiKumar (almost entirely solo piano music)

basically I would to these channels (mostly the first one), and search, say, "mozart" or "elgar" or "violin sonata" or "string quartet" or "symphony" and just listen to whatever they had because they each are pretty well curated with great recordings, aka whatever they have uploaded, you know will be a good performance. Anyway, best of luck, enjoy, and feel free to ask whatever questions here :)

>>129311907
based, finally something good

>>129311906
You'll enjoy the 6th, all Beethoven symphonies are a bit different, give them a try.
Eventually you'll get used to the ladge dynamic contrasts in works like the 5th, it's what makes them great after all.
>>129311947
1. You don't know what fugue even is
2. That's the cleanest, most expressice recording of BWV 582
3. Learn to appreciate great music or go back >>>/mu/

Much like other classical forms/genres, the best operas do make it hard to enjoy the slightly other inferior ones somewhat. Sometimes makes you want to just listen to the best ones over and over. Maybe later in life.

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>not some generic background horror music
Lol, love watching norseposter and the other fag stumble over each other to help some newfag idiot that shits on them for it. I wouldn't even bother.

Going to listen to Godowsky's variations though in honor of this newfag biting the hand that feeds him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdSAb48tV8M

>>129311505
how did no one recommend you the holy grail yet lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMTBrHm3FS8

>>129311995
Also I will say the newfag was based for shitting on the orchestrated romanticlown interpretation of Bach, that is one foul piece only norseposter could enjoy.

>>129312003
cringe and trashpilled, everyone loves Stokowski's Bach

>>129312010
>everyone
If by everyone you mean all the people taking estrogen on /lgbt/ and listening to Chopin-esque playings of Bach, sure.

>>129311989
I don't know anything at all about how these pieces are written. Did he write how loud the instruments should be played? Will listen to the 6th.

>>129311951
Wouldn't it be fair to think that finding a good recording is mostly worth it if I already know if I like that particular piece or not? Will take a look at it though. I mostly listen to music on Spotify so maybe search the channel, then look for that specific recording on Spotify if it's available.

>>129311937
I know that one and very much like it. I've listened to Ashkenazy, Bronfman and Rubinstein's recordings.

>>129311995
>>129312003
>>129312026
time to go back >>>/metal/

>>129311995
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdSAb48tV8M
Pure forgettable slop. No risks taken. Only good to sleep to. I bet you never learned to compose or even read music, if you did you'd find this terrible
>>129311989
I could at least define the rules of a fugue. That recording is trash and a blasphemy to Bach, sounds like (You) need to appreciate actually great music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGKfqSJbeAg

>>129312036
>Did he write how loud the instruments should be played
Yes. Dynamic markings are a thing.

>>129312036
>Wouldn't it be fair to think that finding a good recording is mostly worth it if I already know if I like that particular piece or not?
Sure. Just trusting those channel's uploads is an easy way out starting out when you don't have as much experience doing that is all, and is a great way to learn some of the bigger and best names. Plus you don't wanna pigeonhole yourself too early.

Stokowski's Bach is the perfect interpretation if you hate the baroque, hate bach, and just wish you were listening to Fagner instead.

>>129312077
Thank you pseud sister

>>129312059
>>129312077
perhaps >>>/mu/ would be more your suit, poptimists?

>>129311851
I prefer the Harnoncourt recording with the Berlin Philharmonic, but both are absolutely great.
added the timestamp for the ending of the crucial wolf's glen scene.
https://youtu.be/4nHnEZ7reno?t=897

>>129312077
Bach can and ought to be enjoyed in a multitude of ways.

>>129312088
Whoops meant to reply to >>129311746 >>129309546 and >>129308679

>>129312099
Thanks, added :)

>>129312108
Incorrect.

>>129312108
Yes, and none of those ways involve turning him into a romantislop joke.

>>129312108
Bach ought to be enjoyed exactly as Bach intended:
>>129308964
>>129308992
>>129309034
Bach would enjoy and approve of Stokowski and dislike all HIPster wannabes.

>>129312150
Maybe in your retard dreams.

>>129312150
>as Bach intended:
On a harpsicord or organ? True. Glad we agree Stokowski is a hack and hated here.

>>129312191
>>129312193
My retarded dreams are the reality as per Bach himself >>129312150 who would've preferred Stokowski over harpsichord and organ any day. This must be confusing to hear as an imbecile I'm sure, but that is the truth.

>>129312228
I think you mean to say you prefer romanticlown performances of anything, and then project this onto organ and harpsicord pieces that you dislike, but force yourself to pretend to enjoy because of the western canon.

Let us all be reminded of what you (norseposter) wrote on Bach's music:
"Most of Bach is audibly lowbrow, as there is nothing more vulgar and plebian than the church."

Bit hilarious to do this same old song and dance for a composer you think is "audibly lowbrow", don't you think?

But let me guess, back to the spam again? Loving Every Laugh.

>>129312228
I bet your pseud ass thinks classical can be enjoyed without any musical knowledge

>>129312278
time to go back >>>/metal/

Stokowski is the only conductor that did Bach justice. It is as if it is not Bach but instead Wagnerian music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc2hjkMmtv4

>>129312278
>"Most of Bach is audibly lowbrow, as there is nothing more vulgar and plebian than the church."
Did he really say that? That guy has no right to have an opinion on how Bach is meant to be appreciated

>>129312001
Not a variation on a theme, the variations are over the bass.

>>129312297
>But let me guess, back to the spam again?
As expected, HAHAHAHAHA. Whenever you are cornered in a conversation you always default back to this, just as when you realized Schumann's Fantasie was a pile of formless slop afterall.

>>129312324
Indeed he did, why else do you think he would push for Stokowski? Its literally an interpretation for people that hate the Baroque and hate Bach.

He's also stated that anything besides the AoF and GBV are garbage and not worth listening to. He's a complete hypocritical joke.

>>129312278
>force yourself to pretend to enjoy
Sounds like projection

>>129312356
it's about time you return >>>/metal/

>>129312380
>Sounds like projection
I mean the guy himself has said he thinking all of Bachs music is "audibly lowbrow", there is nothing here to project.

>>129312401
>>129312297
Thanks for the spam

you guys are giving me a headache. listen to some Janacek and chill, please and thank you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V280ixNS5Jc

>>129312316
>Stokowski is the only conductor that did Bach justice
Incorrect. There is no justice in this vulgar histrionic romanticism.
>It is as if it is not Bach but instead Wagnerian music.
Correct. And it is hated here.

>>129312402
>all of Bachs music is "audibly lowbrow"
>all = most
According to your own post, no he did not. At least he's being honest (assuming that's him in the first place), you are projecting hard.

>>129312402
>>129312410
>>129312448
thanks for charlatanery, consider >>>/mu/

>>129312476
Thanks for the spam, not music related.
>>129312444
Yawn.

>>129312455
"Most" to Norseposter literally equals everything that isn't GBV and AoF.
>assuming that's him in the first place
Sorry, I guess there are lots of Chopinidians having spergouts over the church and religion: https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/129123079/#129129837
>At least he's being honest
Honest in what, hating all of Bach's music, then pushing for an interpretation that makes it as little as Bach as possible, and then proclaiming he's following "as per Bach himself" despite also thinking Bach is a "vulgar" church following idiot? You're a fucking idiot.

Excited to go through Rimsky-Korsakov's operas. Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh, The Tsar's Bride, The Maid Of Pskov, Snow Maiden. I remember an anon listened Korsakov as one of their favorite composers and I was surprised because to a non-opera fan, he didn't really compose much, but they replied with how wonderful his operas are, how they make him worthy of being called a great composer, so I've been excited to try them ever since.

>>129312498
>>129312519
thanks for schizo /soc/posting take it to >>>/metal/

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Mussorgsky-Shostakovich

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tM7PrSVDcg&list=OLAK5uy_knfZyUwc2t0Uf9bnGCbYCs-Vud4mhxY3g&index=6

>>129312545
Does it upset you when you are forced to deal with the statements of your past posts? I suppose it is so much easier to larp it up as a real connoisseur when you're anonymous and have no past.

Its times like this where I do think that named sites have a pretty large advantage over anonymous ones, prevents people like you from creating dishonest temporary characters for a fleeting moment of victory.

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rec for recording of Beethoven's Fidelio?

>>129311528
Your mind is sloppy, stop posting anytime.

>>129312876
me on the right

>>129311697
Yeah I'm starting to get pulled into him a bit, I don't really want to give any hard answers yet, but he might become a regular of mine. Part of me wants to say a better version of later Scriabin.

Who is norse poster and what does norse means

>>129313051
Don't worry about it kitten.

Maazel's Mahler

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QagsR6sV7rM

>>129313063
more like

Maaaaazzzzzeeeeeeelllllll's Maaaaaaahhhhhlllleeeeeeerrrrrr

hehe

I do think it's better than most give it credit tho, Maazel is a poet of a conductor

>>129313063
Literally could be ai music, thanks for the slop

>>129313082
If I wasn't 5'8 120lbs, I would beat you up

>>129313075
Are there any writers that are a conductor of a poet?

>>129313090
Can you instead post something good? It's getting real embarrasing

>>129313075
>Maazel is a poet of a conductor
yes... rupi kaur LOL

what kind of classical era is First Fragment?

>>129313093
Ezra Pound, the list goes on...

>>129313100
haha!

Vivaldi is a fucking chad

>>129313051
See >>12930903, his name Norseposter comes from when he posted on /metal/ and used to spam a micro-pseudogenre called Norsecore, he was actually called Norsetourist by the other posters because all he did was spam the tourist bands, but since I didn't hate him I called him Norseposter about 50% of the time assuming I remembered to. As for when hes having a mental breakdown over the only person who didn't shit on him constantly? I have no idea.
https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/123207000/#q123213475

>>129313051
>>129313183
link fix, see >>129309037

>>129312686
This opera is fantastic.

>>129313109
Baroque.

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now playing

start of Busoni: Piano Concerto in C Major, Op. 39
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHrjUd0VJB8&list=OLAK5uy_kiaj5q6pUEYpXUA7TjKqp2Q-3WCYEX5GM&index=1

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kiaj5q6pUEYpXUA7TjKqp2Q-3WCYEX5GM

>Once a towering inspirational figure in the musical life of Berlin, later a crucial influence on musicians as diverse as Sibelius, Varèse, Schoenberg and Weill, Ferruccio Busoni is now being rediscovered by a new generation of performers and listeners. Kurt Weill wrote: "Ferruccio Busoni has been called the last Renaissance man. It is strange enough that such a phenomenon appeared in our time. We are bound to think of Leonardo. In him also we find that comprehensive spirituality which strives to open up all attainable spheres. Such individuals are immortal not only through their work but through the radiation of their personality, through the gradual influence of their humanity." Busoni's sui generis five-movement Piano Concerto is a work that bears comparison to Liszt's Faust Symphony and Mahler's Eighth. This revelatory new recording by pianist Kirill Gerstein with the Boston Symphony Orchestra and the men of the Tanglewood Festival Chorus conducted by Sakari Oramo is a landmark in the wider acclamation of a singular genius who mapped a sublime 20th century alternative to the modernist revolt of Stravinsky and Schoenberg.

Such a great piece.

>>129313358
Thanks for the forgettable slop and meaningless word salad

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there's too many recordings of Handel's Messiah, ahhhhHHHHHHHhhhh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLPtUo_N2XE&list=OLAK5uy_mybL-qg2RV58-Klb3Qset-Mf3nxM4cfdo&index=44

>>129313373
Haha it's a bit of an overzealous excerpt, I'll give you that. It's what was there on the Amazon page.

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For today's opera performance, we listen to Richard Strauss' Arabella conducted by Jeffrey Tate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AmRZLo46jA&list=OLAK5uy_lR1yyVI8FHsDPFncyO8nvN6kK4Q1PyQFo&index=18

Almost opted for Bohm's recording but before I chose, I quickly searched up Ralph Moore's survey on this worn and he says Tate's is his first choice, so here we are.

https://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Jul/Strauss_Arabella_survey.pdf

>>129313358
Probably the greatest piano concerto not by one of the usual big name composers.

>>129309546
This is pretty good.

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>He used to say that while there he had heard Die Meistersinger thirty times. The number must be an exaggeration, but the concentration on one great work is characteristic and reminds us again of the constant putting back of the gramophone needle to a crucial passage. Wittgenstein's reaction was not: 'Die Meistersinger is a great work, I must hear more of Wagner' (or 'I must study his development', as a scholar might say) but 'Die Meistersinger is a great work, I must hear more of it.' As a matter of fact he would later sometimes avoid a concert or part of a concert in which passages from Tristan or Parsifal were played. It was a treatment of problems of music and life at the same time—and its solution lay in the need for rules that can be discovered even within spontaneity but only when a note of reverence has been introduced.

>>129313685
One can only imagine how many times ol' Witty would have listened to it if he lived in our time. I'm sure the biggest Wagner fans here have listened to his operas hundreds of times.

>>129313358
>Busoni
Listening!

>>129313895
You won't regret it.

>>129314014
I only really know Busoni from his contrapunctus and sonatines, what the hell is this concerto length? Massive.

Also this is surprisingly normal tonally, really nothing like what I expect from him. And more symphonic too.

>>129313685
Logier and Schillinger hold the keys to understanding Wagner.

Gotta admit, Busoni's concerto... not feeling it! Then again I've never really connected with anything he's wrote.

What's the classical piece you'd hear before dying?

>>129314407
Night Wind.

>>129314407
the overture to Parsifal.

>>129314399
Well, thanks for giving it a try.

>>129314407
Mahler 8 or 10, Beethoven's String Quartet No. 14

>>129314441
>Well, thanks for giving it a try.
What draws you to the piece?

>>129314447
fuck off, noob.

>>129314480
Whoops meant to reply to >>129313607

>>129308809
But why are these older pianists revered despite their flaws? Pretty much every intelligent pianist I've ever seen, old and modern, has agreed that hitting wrong notes isn't a big deal in itself.

>>129314480
>>129314488
There is literally nothing wrong with liking Satie, and in fact I think only contrarians claim to dislike him.

>>129314447
It sounds good, it's interesting, but also because it's a piano concerto epic with a unique style (as the except states, it was a time when everyone else was doing modernism), so you get the benefit of a fresh yet traditional sound.

>>129314584
>But why are these older pianists revered despite their flaws
Because they are old. We idolize and mythologize that which we no longer have access to. You see the same with old pop-stars and the like.

Not only that, but its safe to like them because they have had decades to solidify as "greats", whereas there is no safety in praising someone new (or lesser known), you risk being completely wrong and "ousted" for the wrong opinions.

I'm not saying these performers are unlistenable, but they are sloppy players in basically every regard compared to the standards of today, and really all they have to offer is ass loads of sappy rubato constantly without end. If you like sappy saccharine histrionics, then its good for you. If your ring finger is longer than your index though, you might have more interest in the modern style that is more reserved, more technical, and more strict.

>>129314688
Genuinely embarrassing post. I thought you had a serious criticism but you're just as bad the bel-canto schizo, only going in the opposite direction. Do you think pianists like Alfred Brendel praise Cortot because they're afraid of being wrong about modern pianists? There's certainly no resemblance in their playing. The fact that you think all old pianists using lots of rubato are automatically saccharine and sentimental says it all. You have no real ear.

>>129314729
>do you think pianists like Alfred Brendel praise Cortot because they're afraid of being wrong about modern pianists?
Maybe Mr Brendel just likes a taste of sappy saccharine histrionics, and even famous and large profiles are human like the rest of us, prone to the same consensus seeking behavior. If you ever meet one you'll realize the legends are... just legends, and in reality they are people who are going to die, but not before unloading their intestines like the rest of us do.
>There's certainly no resemblance in their playing.
Which to me says a lot more than lip service, but maybe you value words over actions.

>>129314688
nah their playing is just more interesting

modern pianists are mostly very boring.

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>nah their playing is just more interesting

>modern pianists are mostly very boring.

>>129314984
>that wall of cope over a bad recording
KEK

>>129314770
Classic case of Dunning-Kruger. Yeah man, all those great pianists just don't know what they're talking about, you're the only one not only smart enough but also honest enough to really speak the truth.

favorite Beethoven Sonata Cycle? lately i've been listening to Gulda a lot

I basically have a shot to a full ride to a phd, and nothing to do for 10 years.

>>129315265
try saying that again in English.

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>>129315250
+ Annie Fischer

>>129315357
do you prefer the stereo Kempff cycle to the earlier mono cycle?

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>>129315401
Stereo. I know a lot of older, serious Beethoven fans talk about the mono cycle like it's the super, secret best cycle of all-time, and I've tried it, but it's never clicked for me. Maybe some day.

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now playing

start of Kalinnikov: Symphony No. 1 in G Minor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obyKt_yjIHU&list=OLAK5uy_nO_oytKMK22wlDXhS5ww9PwXN_rUMDK2E&index=2

start of Kalinnikov: Symphony No. 2 in A Major
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISLOB9bGVlA&list=OLAK5uy_nO_oytKMK22wlDXhS5ww9PwXN_rUMDK2E&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nO_oytKMK22wlDXhS5ww9PwXN_rUMDK2E

Some good, lesser-known Russian symphonies.

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For tonight's opera, we listen to Rimsky-Korsakov's Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh conducted by Valery Gergiev (damn he's really conducted every Russian opera, huh? I guess that's good for those who wanna listen to them in a quality recording).

opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00DcBHAcZtQ&list=OLAK5uy_lgoaNYHG_A_gpTwhxFmLPIhqE56-qKhRw&index=2

random vocal part
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwrWzJRN020&list=OLAK5uy_lgoaNYHG_A_gpTwhxFmLPIhqE56-qKhRw&index=2

>>129315536
Thank you for posting this

>>129315585
:D

>>129315357
>>129315455
I don't understand the extreme reverence for Gulda.

https://vocaroo.com/15wrQXZQF5UU

As promised to the tenoranon in the previous thread, it's Scriabin's op 33 no 1 but my digi piano is fucked up and tuned slightly down. And like I said I'm an amateur piano player so it's not that good, but I asked asked and you delivered and I got give something back.

Sorry about the sound quality and chair squeaks, my phone is garbage.

>>129315702
If I had to describe his playing in one word, it'd be: joy. On the surface, he often doesn't do anything particularly interesting or distinctive, yet the playing has a soul, and he brings out the joy in the music.

>>129315739
I can see that, but my ear registers it as kind of trashy and jazzy.

>>129315357
Yikes. Annie Fischer is good at least.

>>129315773
Fair enough. He isn't really spiritual or emotional. Hence the assortment of cycles, so you get every shade of the music in an ideal style for everyone!

>>129315250
i don't really like any one cycle, there's simply too many works for any single pianist to do full justice to, but i guess Schnabel for the overall approach. maybe Gulda's earlier broadcast cycle (less dry than his later stereo remake(s))
>>129315401
>>129315455
it's basically the same shit, the benefit of the mono recording is that his fingers were a little more technically secure. not a huge difference between the cycles.

>>129315250
Ohlsson if I had to pick just one (I thankfully don't have to)

the saddest pill of all is that 99% of classical performers are egomaniacs who ignore the score to suit their personal taste with no honest concern for understanding or giving sound to what they believe was the composer's intent

>>129316052
just listen to midis you loser

>>129315935
>it's basically the same shit, the benefit of the mono recording is that his fingers were a little more technically secure. not a huge difference between the cycles.
?
They sound completely different to me.

>>129316086
Autistic individuals often experience a unique relationship with nuance. A common characteristic is viewing situations as dichotomous (or black-or-white), which can make navigating the shades of grey in interactions challenging.

>>129316095
i don't really hear much of an interpretive difference other than a tendency towards a more feather light touch and softer dynamics in general, but part of that aural image is due to the mics. both the distance and their FR

the piano is miked much, much closer in the stereo cycle and it has a much harsher treble response, so the stereo cycle does come across as more visceral, but actually comparing the interpretation themselves i don't really find them that different

>>129316099
you sound like a socialist faggot.

>>129316578
and you still sound autistic

>>129314407
Father in Heaven, I believe that Jesus died for my sins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D69p-MMNcA

>>129316052
>with no honest concern for understanding or giving sound to what they believe was the composer's intent
Most composers preferred it that way. The vast majority of them were egotistical performers themselves, after all.

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>>129316649
>Most composers preferred it that way

>>129316590
you sound like someone who got a meme degree in the humanities because he was too gay and stupid for STEM.

>>129316052
It depends on what you mean be "ignore." Adding ornamentation to Handel is "ignoring" the score, but the practice of ornamentation was so ubiquitous in his time he didn't bother to specify that you should do it. Every composer from every period has unwritten rules, expectations and traditions. Part of making a performance your own is deviating from the explicit instructions on the page in some way.

>>129316737
holy projection that was specific.
it's okay dude I'm sure you can put your degree to good use.

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Been going through Liszt, whats up with his later works? Did he just give up and get washed out or was he just bored with writing the same old

>>129316760
>It depends on what you mean be "ignore."
it means contradicting it when it calls for something specific (playing forte when it is marked piano, playing largo when it is marked andante, stuff like that)
>Part of making a performance your own
making a performance your own is not your job as a performer. giving voice to people who died before recording technology existed is your actual job. I don't want to listen to Gould/Brendel/Arrau/literally anyone else, I want to listen to Beethoven.

>>129316804
he realized he was a bad composer and stopped wasting our time pretending otherwise

>>129316805
Even still, there are many times when a composer has written one thing, but it has become traditional to do another. Even more common is when a composer gives you no instructions but you choose to do something anyways, in order for it to sound more artistic. There was a Handel aria I did recently, and it was marked very slow. The piece didn't seem to settle until I ignored the marking, and performed it faster.
>making a performance your own is not your job as a performer
That is explicitly my job! Music is art, not science. When I go about learning a piece, I listen to dozens of recordings, taking small inflections, alterations, etc from each performance. I combine all my favorites, and add a few of my own. The process of polishing a piece and bringing it to professional quality involves every last note being examined, and there's no way a composer can waste his time on minutia that performers are simply going to figure out for themselves. That's what people pay money to see. No one is going to pay money to listen to a human computer mechanically reproduce the notes on a page; simply singing the notes as they appear is what amateurs do.
>I want to listen to Beethoven.
You can't listen to Beethoven, Beethoven is dead. Even if you were to go back in time, I doubt any two of his performances would have been exactly alike. What you can do is listen to various artist's interpretations of Beethoven, and you can decide if you like them or not.

>>129316804
I think he achieved everything he wanted to as a composer. Liszt might have written more music if he had an inferiority complex.

>>129316807
if Liszt was a bad composer that would mean at least 90% of composers were even worse.

>>129316855
>When I go about learning a piece, I listen to dozens of recordings, taking small inflections, alterations, etc from each performance. I combine all my favorites, and add a few of my own.
That's a terrible way to go about interpreting a piece. You're turning what is intended to be a unified musical work into a series of disconnected moments.

>>129316870
and that would be correct, yes

>>129316982
it will sound like its own unified musical work in the end anyway unless you're somehow aware of how he learned it

>>129316982
I don't think you know what you're talking about, that's the standard way to begin your interpretation of a piece. Every performer you've ever listened to has done this, extensively. I'm sorry to demystify the process but humans learn from observing other humans; creativity rarely springs from nothing. A musical piece is a collection of moments, some more important than others. Each individual note is fundamentally its own moment. One of the first things you do when learning a piece is to decide which moments are the most important, how to build up to them and "denouement" away from them. Part of mastery is how to turn these granular moments into a unified piece, like threading beads on a string.

>>129317006
I've interpreted things wrong before, everyone has. That's why you have teachers who tell you when you're right, when you're wrong and steer you in the right direction.

>>129315250
Schnabel

>>129317029
Music is not a collection of moments, what a retarded notion. Even in the simplest structure, the cadence, V and I do not stand on their own, but I necessarily results from V. Sure, you can play a G major chord on its own and you can play a C major chord on its own as their own "moments," but if you do that they are just that: chords on their own. Only when you put them in relation do they become V and I, only then do they form the unified whole of the cadence.

>>129312975
>Part of me wants to say a better version of later Scriabin
Tell that part to stop being retarded. Feinberg is pretty good, but come on.

>>129317061
motives are simpler than cadences (of which there are thirty types btw).

>>129317061
>"what a retarded notion"
>proceeds to agree with me
The mere fact that music can be expressed in a logical mathematical way should tell you something about how granular the structure of music is on a fundamental level. If you've ever heard an amateur perform a piece, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. They plunk out every individual note as if it has equal importance to all the others. That is how the music exists on the page. The more masterful you are, the more of these moments you can connect together, and make them feel as if they belong together. The longer you can make this connection last, the more enthralled the audience will be. I'm a singer, so not only does each note occupy a moment in time, but I only have so much breath. A phrase must be also be a moment in time, but a longer one. my job is to make notes into phrases, phrases into melodies, melodies into songs, etc. In the process of learning an entire opera, I must first learn all its constituent notes, and work my way I from there.

>>129317097
Wow you must be very smart if you know thirty types of cadences.
>>129317127
>The longer you can make this connection last
So you agree that the ideal is to make this connection last for the whole piece? That music should be a unified whole?

>>129317145
please stop embarrassing yourself.

>>129317156
please stop attentionwhoring and turn off your trip.

>>129317127
don't bother arguing with him. he's a NEET who's never had to work with actual ensembles.

TJ arguing with himself again?

>>129317316
his new home looks comfy, padded you might say.

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>>129317316
TJ posts here?

>>129315013
>Classic case of Dunning-Kruger.
Considering all you have offered is an appeal to authority, I would say this is highly ironic.

Hector is the worst thing to happen to this general in years. We have reached /bleep/ level.

>>129315250
For me its giLELs, Levit, and Brautigam. Obviously you will be filtered by the fortepiano of Brautigam (despite it being a better instrument), so giLELs is good as a slower player and Levit is the best all rounder I've heard for fast playing.

I don't share the same enthusiasm for Gulda as the rest do, he bangs too much and is too mechanical for Beethoven. Should stick to playing Prokofiev.

>>129316807
Correct.

>>129317145
Yeah, that was my point from the beginning. That music is made of pieces, but a master performer puts them together into a singular experience. That mastery starts from the bottom up. You write a novel one word at a time, paint a painting one brush stroke at a time. I don't see how this is a controversial opinion. When someone tells you their favorite piece, you ask them, "what part do you like the most?" If they were to tell you "all of it" that would be a pretty lame answer, don't you think?

>>129317194
Sadly it seems like many people in this thread have little to no experience with actually making or performing music. That's fine, but they shouldn't pass off their amateur opinions as if they're fact. To me, if you really love classical music, you should try to make some yourself and learn what really foes into it.

>>129317440
Who?

>>129317529
Berlioz.

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>>129313685
After reading a few pages of the tractatus, I came to the conclusion that I was getting riddled with jewish sophistry so I doused the book with petrol and set it aflame. To clean the messianic sophistry I blasted the Meistersinger overture.

>>129317529
Schizo moderator that creates new characters in every general/thread to troll the userbase of /mu/. He's got different names for each general he posts in or schizospam he summons up, and each thread has their own stories of his humiliation, but its all just varying levels of troll posts. Best to ignore and move on.

now playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZwNPUQfF8I

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Ornstein Sonatas today


4th
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js00OBZ0f74&list=OLAK5uy_nXVnsj1hvAxIdo-aZyTItWi0Brh-SQGBA&index=5
5th
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At5DCY-ftUc
6th
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TO8nVSV2Xk
7th
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTu4bO6faME&list=PLCifPIZhloHUeB2ftGteoeuLzFENDDsvE&index=10
8th
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXm83U8g2Hc&list=OLAK5uy_llzuzL4YWL66mIaa1bRY1g1gyQQDhiwTM&index=24

>>129317698
Going through Hamelin's discography? good way to discover music. Good recording/music too.

>>129317573
He's not a mod kek you can see his posts doxing someone getting deleted in the archive

Marc Andre Hamelin is a cyborg sent from the future. don't ask me how I know this.

>>129317716
>Going through Hamelin's discography
Unintentionally so, mostly I'm just looking at a particular style I enjoy (the late romantic composer pianists) and all paths tend to lead back to Hamelin since hes recorded parts of them all. Although Ornstein is too obscure even for Hamelin and he only recorded a single sonata. Same issue with Feinberg, only recorded half the sonatas.

I've really been looking for a composer who uses aggressive tone clusters and rampant dissonance yet can constrict that whirling serpent into something that feels like it has structure and purpose. The ending cadenza of Night Wind is the closest I've heard, although Feinberg has me very interested now too.

I know you might think Bartok, but honestly his music is pretty goofy with the amount of folk influence in it. Prokofiev would probably be someones next guess, but I have no fondness for his ironies and circus melodies, all I hear is parody and mockery in his music, its closer to a modernist disassociation and alienation than the original true belief in the meaning of Art that pre-modernists had.

My next idea after some of these late romantics is that I might dig into the hyper autistics like Ferneyhough and see if he has what I'm looking for in pieces.

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For today's opera performance, we listen to Stravinsky's The Rake's Progress, conducted by the composer himself!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvJ30oVX7GU&list=OLAK5uy_kAepV8wLdlHK7Ah7GWxYeYaWB4l-SyMeU&index=17

>This is the original postmodern opera: Igor Stravinsky, in an unlikely collaboration with W.H. Auden, resurrected the centuries-old formulas of opera buffa and delivered a parodistic commentary on them at the same time. Composed in 1951, and based on William Hogarth's satirical engravings A Rake's Progress (published in 1735), this virtuosic three-act comedy is one of the indisputable masterpieces of 20th-century opera, a fresh and unique fusion of familiar musical, theatrical, and scenic elements with a wild libretto and a vivacious score in Stravinsky's most scintillating neoclassical idiom. Recorded in London in 1964--with the composer conducting the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra and the chorus of Sadler's Wells (he was then 82)--this account remains the standard by which others must be judged. The performance is vital and wickedly dry, with first-class singing from a cast that includes Judith Raskin as Anne Truelove and John Reardon as Nick Shadow. --Ted Libbey

Where do I find a download for this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HynpKOlESU

>>129317880
imslp.org

>>129317880
Lol second time I've seen this posted now after I threw it up here as a showcase for Baroque improv. It really is a great video, and that passacaille is amazing. Handel is a genius.

>>129317807
I feel you. Hope you find what you're looking for. I feel like I have a recommendation or two that'd be perfect, or at least close, but they aren't coming to mind as of yet. I'll let you know if they do.

>>129317869
Hey I can even understand the majority of the words without subs.

>>129317869
The singing in this is glorious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2z3ihwqUEo&list=OLAK5uy_kAepV8wLdlHK7Ah7GWxYeYaWB4l-SyMeU&index=2

>>129317994
>Tom, I have some news for you, I have spoken to our friend in the city...
Indeed it's pretty clear :D

>>129317908
It's just a circle of fifths

>>129318082
You know, there are actually thirty types of circles of fifths btw.

So sad Medtner has no melodies

>>129318082
We love simplicity here. I've had that passacaille stuck in my head for like two years straight now. Can't say I've ever caught my humming Webern's piano variations, or could tell you a single note from it.

>>129317807
I'd say Messiaen but he doesn't have the structure you seem to desire. so how about some

Ligeti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkKV0Ze1Z6M

Ives
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNClpXXb7cw

>>129318100
You should instead listen to pop music, you'll find much garbage that suits your tastes.

>>129317448
Levit is not really fast and while the fortepiano is indeed superior the one Brautigam chose for his recording is truly ugly and lacking in dynamic range.

>>129318118
Whoops meant to reply to >>129314655

>>129318118
Correct.

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>>129317807
>>129318115
The Ives' Concord Mass seems exactly what they're looking for. Plus Hamelin even recorded it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtgkT-2ZU8Q&list=OLAK5uy_mXLnnpegH8LQJ0lXiQGAnV-Z2D5x1FjjE&index=1

>This CD contains probably the two greatest piano sonatas composed by Americans. Some might disagree, but few will disagree that they are great, if not at the very top of any list. [See below for comments about the Barber Sonata; most of this review will be about the Ives.] As to the Ives, frankly, I agree with Lawrence Gilman's reaction when he heard the première by John Kirkpatrick of the 'Concord' Sonata in 1938: 'This sonata is exceptionally great music--it is, indeed, the greatest music composed by an American, and the most deeply and essentially American in impulse and implication.'

+

>Marc-André Hamelin is known for his extraordinary technique that allows him to play the most difficult, demanding music with an ease and comfort level others, even many with admired technical abilities, can't match. One of the burdens of such keyboard facility is that audiences are so dazzled they don't always realize what a penetrating interpreter he is, and tend to take his brilliance for granted. This Ives-Barber disc will put that to rest. Yes, he easily meets the incredibly complex demands of the "Hawthorne" movement of the Ives Sonata and the outer movements of the Barber Sonata (the final fugue inspired by Horowitz, who premiered the work). But one comes away from these performances in awe of the poetic lyricism displayed by Hamelin, the reflective portions of the Ives registering their profundity. Overall, he fearlessly adopts faster tempos than usual, to the benefit of structural clarity and visceral excitement of both works. Hamelin's are now the preferred versions of both of these American masterpieces. --Dan Davis

Peep the great Barber sonata too.

>>129318125
...

>anon 1: fortepiano is superior!
>anon 2: hmm i don't normally agree but yknow, I do love that Brautigam cycle!
>anon 1: oh that one sucks

just say you're a contrarian and be done with it and spare us

>>129318141
Nothing contrarian about having a preference for a better fortepiano. They all sound quite different.

>>129318125
>Levit is not really fast
I mean hes pretty quick, Gulda is faster, but Gulda also can't manage to not break his keyboard while playing.
>the one Brautigam chose for his recording is truly ugly
Its not the greatest of greats, and he always records with extra reverb for whatever reason, but I think it sound fine and still provides the benefits of clarity that I enjoy. By fortepiano are you meaning Erard or actual fortepianos? Which brand do you prefer?

>>129318146
I'm saying it's contrarian when someone tries to meet you in the middle and then you pull back even further. I don't even like that Brautigam cycle (fortepiano blows) but it's the most popular and successful fortepiano cycle by far for a reason.

>>129318134
>>129318115
I think I listened to Concord and the Legeti pieces before, but it was long ago and it was probably a one and done, will listen and give my thoughts when I feel ready, thanks.

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For me, it's Elisabeth Schwarzkopf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht4OSO6ijaw

>>129317892
can only find the scores and not the downloads of the recordings

>>129317880
>>129318171
In that case you gotta look up each one on RuTracker or Soulseek. or just stream

>>129318156
Please don't make an appeal to popularity/success.

>>129318181
I asked cuz I cant find it on slsk, gonna try rutracker

>>129318171
google yt-dlp

>>129318191
yeah i just wanted it tagged

>tfw no messiaen gf
sad

>>129318199
just tag it yourself in foobar or whatever program

good classical to listen to while playing minecraft?

>>129318213
Fagner, his sleepy lullibies are a perfect fit for a game where nothing happens for hours at a time.

>>129318213
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBFOwHLYj70

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>The opera repertory is more extensive than the symphonic, after all -- compare Verdi with Brahms as material.

>Igor Stravinsky wrote "I say that in the aria 'La donna è mobile', for example, which the elite thinks only brilliant and superficial, there is more substance and feeling than in the whole of Wagner's Ring cycle."

>>129318219
Based, we hate Wagner here. Only midwits like him.

>>129315250
it really depends on the specific sonata, there is no one cycle that is "best" for every sonata BUT if i had to pick one it would be Anal Fischer