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YOU CAN'T STOP WHAT'S COMING

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>>97484803
There is a way

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>>97484775
>>TQ Yes, yes I do sir.

I remember eons ago someone came up with a traitor ultramarines idea ("barbarian" ultramarine chapter), and while I think it's a cool idea, not sure if it'd work with marines, hypo-indoctrination and whatever. I'd like to theme some Ultramar Solar Aux like this, AKA recruited from a recently conquered/incorporated into Ultramar world and unhappy with the state of things, so join the traitors. Or something. IDK this is a weird roundabout way to justify a bright canon scheme (Calth High Guard) while playing traitors cuz my friend plays loyalists. Would like to do BA but IDK if a darker scheme would look good at epic scale, I've always been told that brighter colors look better for that scale

>>97484830
Can you post some of your infantry? I really like the color on the tanks

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Anon was right that's a very pretty interior

Are bikes still bad?

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>>97484871
no worries bro, it is a suprising easy scheme with an airbrush an oil wash.

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Mobile command centers are cool, big transports are cool, big transports that look like mobile command centers are extremely cool

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>>97484775
>Do you enjoy oversized transports?
It's okay, I recently sold my spare crassus to a treadhead mate

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>>97484922
Mastadon life anon!

>>97484901
No, and people who try and convince you otherwise are bad at the game.

>>97484905
Can we get more pictures of those...sentinels, I think?
Tell me more about that swordsman unit. Like, are they actually power sword companions, or are they count-as axe veletarii? I wish charnabal sabres were useful. They were fine with Breaching 5+

>>97484775
Is trying to start HH with Solar Auxilia an exercise in insanity, or is it actually viable as far as ease of play/good game feel goes?

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>>97485057
The sentinals are proxie 3d prints from Nate Feyma (Staghound Scout Walkers) I run them as the Aetheon heavy sentinals with either autocannons or mulitlas + the pie plate frag missle launcher. They are a total menace for their price and toughness. They can harass the shit out of marines with lots of wounds and causing status checks. Put them in cover and a marine player will need to dedicate a ton of resources to removing them while the rest of your army pounds away at them.

The HQ and Elites with the sword and shields are my SA legatine command squad and tacitcal command section with power swords. The shields are to represent their 5+ invul save that all command and companion squads have, its saves both myself and my opponent time and clarity with a clear visual marker for the 5+ inv squads.

>>97485113
SA forces provide some of the cheapest bodies for scoring, bubble wrapping, inderdiction, or really cheap effect AT and arty sections. Highly reccomend. The sheer volume of demo cannon spam or AT las rapier spam vs points is crazy now. Oh and they can field more AV14 tanks with marine killing guns for cheaper than anyone else.

You will menace the fuck out of unprepared marines with your high str shooting + AP and then take multilasors on every printe or sponsor you can so you can spam status effects as it just needs to hit not kill to force a check.

You really do need to have a mixed force of armour, infantry or build around once of the more gimmicky builds like sentinal heavy or veletari heavy forces. Watch some battle reps and or read some to get your head around how they play in 3.0

>>97484888
Can you post front?

>>97481922
>pedo artist

Put coomers into labour camps.

Do we have a scan of the Steel Hand of Mars journal? Specifically the lore/livery parts.

>>97485519
check last thread.

>>97484922
Smal transports I like

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maybe I should do this guy as world eaters and make a small shattered legions force (mostly as a collection/for ZM), given that their rules arent retardedly complicated now

but who should be the 2nd legion to pick? was thinking blood angels as I had a blackshields idea to combine the two in a previous thread (where they feed on corpses)

>>97485113
I'd like to ask the same thing but in regards to models. Like hypothetically without proonting, how many goddamn Combat Force boxes would be considered 'sufficient' before filling out the rest of one's list?

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hey anons, what's the narrative reason for the guy on the left being 2x better in melee than the guy on the right?

>>97484775
>TQ
Not really.

>>97486069
There are marines under that power armour. They aren't clones.

>>97486069
While the guy on the right was out crusading, the guy on the left studied the blade.

>>97484922
Yes

>>97486069
The guy on the left has the favor of the gods while the guy on the right doubts his genefather's manifest destiny.

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>>97484922
Large command vehicles draw attention.

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Missed the robot discussion in the previous thread (Valhallan and Attilan custodes do not like it when one brings up their limited influence on the galactic stage), but as I was reading up on some old fluff, came across pic related. Has the second pacification of Isstvan V survived beyond RT? I understood that the planet was mainly forgotten as a blasted wasteland, mainly used for salvaging gear.

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>>97484922
I wonder if back in the day of Great Crusade and/or Horus Heresy did the Imperial Army use Leviathans. I mean if Baneblades were classed as light scout/recon vehicles, then what was the size of the actual golden age era main line battle tanks. I mean for all we know the Phalanx may have been what a cop road cruiser is to us in modern times.

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work on an infernus abomination using a kingdom death ringtail vixen as its basis (alpha legion indentured btw) has begun in earnest
pretty much nailed replacing the fingertips on her free hand with pointy talons drawn from the tips of a couple of tactical squad lightning claws which was a delicate operation so i'm super pleased with that, the extruded boneshard spitter is mounted upon the adjoining forearm
the bright idea occurred of giving her a tail to represent the spinelash
specifics of the hammerblade being swung are still being mulled
big excite

might further specify that the halloween variant is the one being used
pretty gosh darned cool model

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>>97486244
Capitol Imperialis were, at least, and they're the proper command bunker vehicles.
>if Baneblades were classed as light scout/recon vehicles
But they weren't, it's just an internet meme that refuses to die.

>in the Lost and the Damned Sanguinius let an entire Imperial Army regiment feel up his wings
damn what a slut

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>>97486306
he loved it

Do you guys think that puting twin LC on a pretorian breachers sgt a bit over the top, or is it okey? The unit would not be running with a twin LC centurion.

>>97486306
Would. No homo.

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>>97486306
kinky

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>>97486306
I wonder what he smells like.

>>97486285
man to have a Capital Imperials and not just a Leviathan must be so cool.

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>>97486346
Nothing like having a command bunker that's also an army carrier.

>>97486320
rule of cool trumps everything
don't let your memes be dreams

>>97486381
Do you think a space marine could mag lock a breacher shield to his back/back pack?

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>>97486394
yeah it's not entirely out of the question in my book but a strap might help drive it all home
i don't know how he'd go using it with a lightning claw on either hand though if that's what's in contention

>>97485918
Do Blackshields and paint him as Rainbow Warrior.
>>97486121
Isnt Damocles kinda shit though ?

>>97486414
Don't the claws retract in to the powerfist like gauntlets? I know the Raven Lords and SoSahals did.

>>97486320
>>97486414
Just make a shield/LC combo weapon out of plasticard.

>>97486442
Some do, some don't. When the claw blades are positioned at the finger tips they can't exactly retract anywhere.

Planning to write a homebrew Legion book because of GW's shitty balancing/writing in general, but should I rewrite the whole book or just restat some of the units/weapons?

>>97486442
they're often mounted upon gauntlets that have power fist-esque dimensions so it's going to come down to the exact specifics of whatever you have in mind but these are all good things to consider and can be worked around one way or the other if you really wanted

>>97486450
Not an english user and google AI ain't helping. What is plasticarat?

>>97486453
yeah, you are right. So avoid the "finger" claws. Thanks.

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>>97486320
Cut his shield into segments and mount the segments on servo-arms.

>>97486457
Don't bother, nobody is gonna use that shit. And as bad as GW balancing is, homebrew is without exception even more wildly unbalanced.

>>97486468
>Not an english user and google AI ain't helping. What is plasticarat?
Its literally a sheet of plastic.

>>97486459
I have 2 pairs of left over L claws from idnomitus. I used the other 3 pairs, as arm sources for Saturnite. I want to run something like 2xmace, 2xax, sgt with 2xclaws and 5 dudes with powerswords/charnable blades pretorian breacher unit to join my pretor with combat shield and powerfist.

>>97486481
Cool. Thanks for explaining.

>>97486485
Which unit do you mean with praetorian breachers exactly? Veteran breachers, or a praetorian command squad with combat shields?

>>97484775
Give me one good reason not to 3d print the entire battle of isstvan 5 in epic scale.

>>97486512
Too much detail for 8mm.

>>97486457
2.0 or 3.0?

>>97486426
would be kino, but arent the rainbow warriors still a 40k chapter?

>>97486512
Like on what?

>>97486547
They and Mentors were 1st founding in Rogue Trader.

>>97485918
Shattered legions, world eaters in particular are cool as fuck.

>>97485918
Emperors children, world eaters, Luna wolves alliance

>>97486572
Nta but that was retconned about a year later when adeptus titanicus came out and fleshed the heresy out along with parts of the chaos books for RT.

Participated in a two day narrative event. Going to dump pics and try to give a battle report of the two games of heresy, and the one game of titanicus I played.

The premise, multiple legions are on station at a resupply hub for the great crusade, the loyalists are ambushed en mass and must fight a desperate fallback action to escape the planet surface.

Pic dump and battle report to follow

>>97486572
>Mentors were 1st founding in Rogue Trader
When was this? In WD98 (February 1988) they are said to be a relatively new chapter from the 26th Founding.

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>>97486646
Our first game of the event was four man doubles game, two traitors versus two loyalists, 5k points per player.

The key is, only after full deployment did we randomly draw cards from a hat to determine who was traitor and who was loyalist. Luckily the mechanicum player and I were both traitors and were deployed on the same side of the table. Our opponents were Ultramarines (traitor ultramarines that ended up on the loyalist side of this event) and thousand sons.

How did Horus successfully distribute all the shiny new weapons and armour to the traitor legions when there was only a single year between his corruption and the actual outbreak of the Heresy? It seems to be a common theme that Horus manipulated imperial supply lines to favour the traitor legions, but it making a noticeable impact never made sense to me given that there was only a single year of preparation and planning between Davin and Isstvan.

>>97486678
>Team battle where people don't know which side they're on until after deployment
That's actually a real fun idea.

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>>97486678
Pictured here is the center of the board, the thousand sons are deployed in and around the central fortification, the ultramarines are on the other side.

The objectives for this mission: the loyalists must secure four vox relays so as to call for emergency evacuation. The traitors simply look to deny them that.

Most of the ultramarine force is in reserve, inside a thunderhawk and a stormbird. Turn one is mostly spent moving closer to the center, the warhound fires the first shots in anger of the match. The game is on.

>>97486697
In some stories they confirm Horus had the mechanicum commission special weapons and vehicles before he turned traitor.

I guess he didn't know he'd be using the weapons against the emperor at the time

>>97486697
In older lore the time between Horus' corruption and the outbreak of the Heresy was longer. GW writers forgot to retcon the distribution favouritism to be in line with all the other retarded retcons because they're all talentless hacks.

>>97486709
Get that can off the goddamn table reeee

>>97486654
I am reguriating half remembered bullshit but in my heart of hearts I know it must be true because its cool.

>>97486732
It's a drop pod proxy Only oldfags will understand

>>97486697
It's implied horus was going to rebel even without chaos.

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>>97486709
Sadly I don’t have a moment by moment picture spread, so I’ll try to keep the thread of what happened. Pictured here, the ultramarines thunderhawk combat drops a tartaros command squad and a veteran assault squad. The tartaros wipe out my screening force of tactical, the assault veterans cut down my cataphractii squad until only two men stand.

At this point my saturnine dread is in danger, but luckily not engaged.

Meanwhile the mechanicum exchanges long range fire with the thousand sons holding at the foot of the citadel.

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red butcher proxy?

who am I kidding this looks like dogshit.

>>97486741
sure, what next ? a soda turned into a carnifex ?

>>97486539
Currently leaning towards 3.0 simply because it's the current edition and there's more shit to fix (invincible AV14, Thousand Sons, lack of flavor), but if demand for 2.0 is higher I'm fine with writing for that too.

>>97486763
How about Phraetus Anointed proxies?

>>97486763
Still better than originals.

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>>97486757
A daemon hierarch summoned by the erstwhile ultramarines, boxes in a vigilator his recon squadron and a delegatus overseeing the main strength of my force. He eats many shots to the face. At this point the loyalists are holding two vox relays in their back field. We are fighting them to a standstill on our side.

>>97486244
>I mean if Baneblades were classed as light scout/recon vehicles
They werent.

The heresy is the imperium at its absolute peak in terms of military might and technological prowess, and theyre superheavies.

>>97486763
Traitor charonite ogryns.

>>97486069
The guy on the left being a more senior and experienced dude? Its like asking why a veteran and a tactical are different even if they have the same equipment.

>>97486723
They suck and we shouldn't give them any money for making the game and setting worse each and every year

>>97486763
GW actually remade the most disliked CSM models ever? Damn they must be real desperate.
Hilarious how these look like shit, yet still better than the original model lmfao.

>>97486763
Holy fuck they took the wrong lesson from everyone laughing at obliterators in their underpants

>>97486776
Its hard to be worse than OG mutilators, all time terrible models.

>>97486763
could work as command saturnine proxies

>>97486774
Honestly? Youre onto something. THe bulk makes them look like chaosified centurions or something. Almost like mini dreads.

>>97486763
The weapons are dumb, but honestly they look fine? Not like mutated marines though, way too much armor for that.

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>>97486786
Below the embattled recon section, my saturnine dread and my leviathan hold the line. The ultramarine tartaros command squad defeated by combined fire from both dreads, finished off by the leviathan in melee. The mechanicum vorax pull off an absolutely stellar charge to keep the assault veterans of the ultramarines engaged in combat, and stop them from reaching the saturnines position.

Surrounded by a deepstriking saturnine squad, and another thousand sons squad. The saturnine dreadnaught shows his quality. The inversion beamer does incredible work, and due to lucky positioning and poor rolls for my opponent, his photonic incinerators cause both squads to route. Saving him from being locked in melee.

>>97486820
Can only maybe get away with using them as prhaetus, and even that is pushing it.

Watch these be more expensive than saturnine terminators lol.

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>>97486832
>Melee leviathan
Based.

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>>97486832
Meanwhile in the opponents backfield, a strike team of cataphractii embarked on a kharybdis roll up the opponents vox relays.

>>97486834
Its not even a "watch this".

The saturnine box is expensive, but you get six. This is going to be almost as much for three. The only benefit is that they come with two fists base.

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>>97486763
Honestly after the knee-jerk reaction, in a different paint scheme and different camera angle they look fine I guess. Too bad they'll be monopose as he'll so no point in getting more than 1 box.

>>97486763
the form factor of the armor isn't terrible but the weapons look awful, they remind me of the AoS chorfs. Mutilators should have like, industrial saws and chainblades for hands not sauron's mace

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>>97486854
On screaming retros the ultramarines stormbird deposits a contemptor, a cataphractii command squad, and suzerains. They engage the mechanicum in a bloody melee, and are heavily winnowed.

>>97486859
You get four actually.

>>97486811
Well, the "most disliked CSM models ever" award still goes to the old metal Possessed.

>>97486854
Those UM and TS look like they're about to have a real bad time

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>>97486884
Caught between the mechanicum cohort and a champion and his retinue, the ultramarines fight to their last. Dead on the field they lay.

>>97486831
I was thinking the cut of the armor resembles Saturnine more than Centurion armor. It's not a perfect match but very close. Missing the ginormous pauldrons of standard Saturnine could even be explained as Phraetus Anointed having no need of the additional teleportation homers and targeting arrays housed within the shoulder armor, since PAs teleport through sorcery and their melee-only loadout doesn't benefit from the higher targeting functionality.

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>>97486899
The final shot of this first game, seeking retribution the ultramarines deploy the last of their reserves to try to retake the backfield vox relay. Luckily the stalwart cataphractii held.

Overall, the loyalists manage to hold enough vox relays to send a distress signal to the orbital fleets engaged above. Evac is on the way.

On to game two.

>>97486887
Oh right. Im so used to seing batches of six because of the starter box. MIght be close then.

>>97486902
I could see it. At the end of the day you also have the "they were so corrupted it was hard to tell they were once marines!" angle going on.

>>97486894
I still like the one with the chainsword and power fist, which is one model more than with the mutilators.

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>>97486916
Game two is a slaughter.

3k per player
Thousand Sons vs Traitor Ravens

The traitor goal is to hold the anti-aircraft emplacements preventing the loyalist evac. I was the only traitor who managed to maintain their anti-aircraft battery.

Not many pictures of this one, the high points, a despoiler interdiction cadre in the backfield. Saturnine dread vaporizing anything that try’s to get close. Deepstriking saturnine terminators with duel disintegrators cratering the enemy’s knight.

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>>97486944
The one posted is probably the worst one. But also the most mutated. The others look like power armor on top of power armor.

>>97486950
>Thousand Sons vs Traitor Ravens
aka. Dawn of War 2.

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>>97486950
The single challenge of the game, on the last turn. The champion cuts down the thousand sons centurion with two paragon blade crits.

On to titanicus.

>>97486954
This shit is not metal.
There is no Satan here.
It does not make my penis hard.

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>>97486961
>Parry this, you filthy heretic!

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>>97486961
The loyalists are in a full retreat, awaiting evacuation to orbit. They hold a landing site in a northern hive city. Knowing that there is no escape for them, a maniple of the Legio Gryphonicus fights a rearguard action against Legio Vulturum who seek to shatter the defense and overrun the loyalist holdfast.

Pictured here, a turn one warp-displace and charge allows Legio Vulturum to draw first blood. In a single flurry of blows the reaver Ossifrage guts it’s Gyrphonicus counter part.

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>>97487000
Seizing the momentum, Legio Vulturum goes on the offensive. Anchored by an ancient warlord titan they advance into the city.

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>>97487019
On the back foot, Gryphonicus tries to blunt the charge. But it seems already it is too late.

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>>97487028
Warhorns blaring, Ossifrage closes with its next victim. The warhound gives good account of itself, almost crippling the reaver. It will not save it. Another engine kill to the tally.

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>>97487042
After reaping a bloody harvest Ossifrage is finally gunned down. It is too little too late for the loyalist legio. The warlord guns down a warhound, and detonates the magazine of an enemy reavers volcano cannon. The resulting explosion destroys its fellow reaver, leaving Vulturum victorious.

Sorry for the spam, thanks for reading.

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>>97486244
>I mean if Baneblades were classed as light scout/recon vehicles, then what was the size of the actual golden age era main line battle tanks
The Baneblade has never been a recon vehicle.
The OG land raider proteus was a survey vehicle built for exploring dangerous planets. Arkhan land glued a bunch of lascannons to it and called it a heavy transport. Thats what's got you confused.

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>>97487000
>*teleports in front of enemy*
>"With my melta cannon I'm sure to win against enemy engines."
>"Who cares nigguuuhh"
>gets demolished by an overgrown lawn mower
Ouch.

>>97486852
I wish GROND had been there, I miss him dearly

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>>97484775
>TQ
Buddy you have no idea

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>>97486944
He looked better than the others, but it's hard not to.

>>97484775
>Do you enjoy oversized transports?
Only if they can fly

>>97486989
L.mao

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So, got the new skittle boys for my mechanicum collection. Reading the rules right now.

Is it just me or are these guys better than any other vanguard troop choice?

They can get Vanguard 3 with a subfaction bonus

>>97486244
baneblades were never scout vehicles. just because in the future everything is big that doesn’t mean reconnaissance has magically changed definitions.

>>97486897
They in fact, did

>>97487149
Recon in force is a thing.

>>97487067
Nothing feels as satisfying as melee combat in titanicus

>>97486285
>>97486799
>>97487061
NTA, and I could be wrong, but the vague part I recall was that the baneblade would've been considered a light thank by the DAOT humanity that designed it. I recall it from some post of someone theorising about humanity if the old night hadn't happened. Might still be bullshit, but saying the imperium didn't consider it a light/recon tank may somewhat miss the point that anon's referencing (even if incorrectly)

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Angron arrived and I already wanna kms

>>97487157
by that definition everything is a recon vehicle

>>97487173
DO A FLIP

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>>97486244
>>97487061
>>97486799
The Imperium didn't create the Baneblade. Or Land Raider, Rhino, Predator, etc. Most of that stuff was relics of the Dark Age of Technology rediscovered by technoarcheologists.
I've heard the meme of Baneblades being light stuff, which begets speculation that true superheaviest must've been Bolo tanks or something, but I think it's just a fanmade rumour.
But I like it, so I pretend it's true. Ive also heard the Russ is based on an agricultural tractor or something?

>>97486806
why are despoiler squad sergeants more senior and experienced than tactical squad sergeants?

>>97487173
Can I have your stuff?
I've assembled a lotr Ghûlavhar back when it was still metal and lived, nothing scares me after that

>>97487220
because tac squads are an unspecialized entry level role and naturally the leaders of a tac squad are going to be experienced but not specialized

>>97487220
They aren't. Despoilers have the +1 attack for having pistol and a ccw incorporated into their profile now. Assault marines too.

>>97487237
but the tactical sergeant has a ccw and pistol as well

>>97487243
Not by default.

>>97487237
did they remove the +1 attack for 2 melee rule?

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>>97487137
It is just you, because they are sold as fast but they aren't any faster than marines. They are sold as shooty, but they are armed with what's basically Volkite chargers, and unlike real Skitarii these guys are BS3 for some reason.
For an assault unit, at WS3 these guys struggle against mere Tacticals.
But marine Vanguard Troops (Assault marines & Despoilers) do indeed ditch any ranged capability to focus on melee; Pilgrims keep both.
Fr actual Skitarii Rangers and Sicarians would've been much better, but FW mini makers just HAVE to leave their mark in the game

>>97487167
That is an often repeated factoid, but there is nothing to support it that I have seen.

The LAND RAIDER was a recon vehicle of sorts (the explorator), but thats not so much "it was a light and weak thing relative to everything else" as much as "it was so durable and indestructible that it could be used to explore whatever dangers the universe may have had"

>>97487234
>When close-quarter fighting is expected, Legion Tactical squads will be equipped in the 'Despoiler' role
From the Liber Astartes for 3.0.

So Despoilers are Tactical Squads, not a specialized unit. Why does a Tactical Sergeant, when told his squad is going to be equipped as a 'Despoiler' role, gain double the combat effectiveness? It's not about specialization (same guy) and it's not about equipment (same equipment).

>>97487220
>why is the sgt from a squad specialized in close combat better in close combat than a sgt from a squad that isnt
real mystery, no answers

>>97487289
they're the same squad, though.

>>97487284
shit man i dunno

>>97487281
>"it was so durable and indestructible that it could be used to explore whatever dangers the universe may have had"
Terminators are recon troops, for they can survive anything. That's why they are sent to explore Space Hulks.
You don't know whether I am shitposting or being serious.

>>97487310
True. Terminators should be able to take jump packs to help them in their recon role.

>>97487268
Dual wielding in melee isn't in the rules anymore. You can get it for pairing specific weapons (eg. dual claws) but that's because your model is legally using a weapon called "pair of lightning claws" that just so happens to have the lightning claw statline with +2A, as opposed to using 2 claws. Other paired weapons (eg. Dread chainfists) give you advantages other than bonus attacks, and you never get any bonus for 2 different weapons.

>>97487320
The sons of sanguinius are insatiable

>>97487284
>Why does the Despoiler sergeant not have the Fury of the Legion special rule? It's not about specialisation and it's not about equipment. Despoilers are the same unit as Tacticals, so they should have Fury of the Legion too.

You're cherry picking what you're autistic about just because you want to be upset about something. This is a tabeltop wargame, there will always be abstractions and odd interactions to make everything work because it isn't reality and you need to be able to play a game in a reasonable time frame.

>>97487351
I don't feel bad about a unit not having a special rule it would be impossible to make use of due to inability to take a weapon that interacts with said special rule and the implication that I would is an attempt to misdirect.

>>97487351
>there will always be abstractions and odd interactions
Nta, I think Despoilers should have even more attacks: Tacticals can get an extra shot with Fury.
Despoilers should have Impact (A). An equivalent of Fury! Impact deactivates on disordered charges, right?

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>>97487167
Unfortunately we have straight fluff that makes the predator a DAoT battle tank and Land Raiders are also based on DAoT era battle tanks, so baneblades would not be "light" tanks by any measure. Maybe a light war machine, considering they're packing half the firepower of a scout titan.

>>97487373
>I don't feel bad about a unit not having a special rule
Well I do! Tacticals get Fury yet Despoilers lost Spite

>>97487393
Then can they go back to just having chainswords with no options? Considering tacticals can't have 1 marine in 5 swap their bolter for something else. Maybe let them have heavy chainswords and chain axes, considering tacticals can have bayonets.

>>97487393
That would be nice, though from my experience despoilers don't really need it. Despoilers already beat up tacticals in melee, which is why I prefer them over tacticals because you don't need to invest another unit to clean the tacticals off an objective so your Line unit can claim it.

>>97487394
>All Predators were Destructor
We've known since M36 that techpriests discovered Predator turrets were modular and were always capable of taking different armaments, so they weren't necessarily Destructor only. 2.0 armaments are all correct and valid.
So if that old fluff was retconned into being wrong, then headcanon can be true.
In our heart ;_;

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bolter/chainsword tactical marine master race

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>>97487423
>"""""""""""""""""""""discovered"""""""""""""""""""""
After hundreds of years of seething while Marines kept making and using Annihilators to the point that it'd be impossible to put the genie back in the bottle.

>>97487429
that they stole this from me in 3.0 (the game that gets played locally, and I'd rather be a badgames than a nogames) is the greatest sin GW have committed

>>97486770
Nogaems

I just got adepitcon off as PTO...and there are still slots left for Titanicus...and I should be able to get my ID renewed in time to fly there...

>>97487461
Hope to see you there, sign up for titanicus singles and kick my ass

>>97487418
>Despoilers already beat up tacticals in melee
Uh, Tacticals already beat Tacticals in melee, anon. And also beat Despoilers, should they catch them outside their Rhino.
What I'd like is for Despoilers to beat...Assault marines! If Assault marines are fast, then Despoilers ought to have something to both compensate their slower speed AND their identical price to a squad that does similar (more) damage and is easier to use: Tacticals
>>97487416
>Considering tacticals can't have 1 marine in 5 swap their bolter for something else.
Good point: if Tacticals get Heavy FP on their bolters only, then Despoilers should get Impact (A) on their chainswords only
>Maybe let them have heavy chainswords and chain axes, considering tacticals can have bayonets.
I would give them improved access, yeah. Heavy Chainswords, Heavy Chainaxes, and regular Chainaxes because they were common in the heresy era.

Say, regarding Tacticals' lack of access to special weapons where Despoilers do get special blades...what if we did give Tacticals access to special weapons?
Blasphemy, I know, but several Inductii already do get access to a limited selection. The rushed recruits get it but not the regular soldiers? Bullshit.

I say let Tacticals take 1 special weapon per 5

>>97487444
Still have chainswords on my tacticals and just say they're the chain bayonets. Same weapon profile anyway.

>>97487486
>Tacticals already beat Tacticals in melee
No they don't, certainly not to the extent that they inflict a high enough modifier to send the enemy tacticals running. Trust me I've tried that too, several games, and you just end up with your own tacticals remaining locked in combat and not scoring that turn because of it.

>>97487429
Oh I'd restore Chainsword access to Tactical among all those changes, yeah.
However, chainswords currently don't do anything useful: a model's melee gains AP5 (nigh useless) and Shred 6 (nigh useless against 5+ save models that are all single wound, or 2W models that are all well armored)
Proposal: Chainswords gain AM+1
Consequently, Chainaxes, Heavy Chainaxes and Heavy Chainswords all gain one point of initiative (e.g.: i-2 becomes i-1), so now the balance is those do less attacks but hit harder, rather than being that much slower

>>97487423
Oh that fluff is kind of weird because of irl shit.

So when it was new fluff the Predator kit was new - this is like 1988 or 1989 or so - and the autocannon was a hell of a gun. Heavy flamers absolutely wrecked shit in those days. Teleporting an assault cannon terminator squad was a declaration of your deeply held disrespect for your opponent's entire bloodline to the tenth generation. A Predator with two lascannon and turret autocannon, never mind a Land Raider with four lascannons and I think originally two heavy bolters, well that was just a demand for your opponent to surrender. Some armies literally could not stop a Predator from obliterating them, but the original kit only came with an autocannon turret and lascannon sponsons.

Then around 3E the rules changed and autocannons became much less important. Like the difference between tanks in HH1 and HH2, coupled with the difference between HSS in HH2 and HH3. The hulls were less indestructible, they didn't crap out a fighting crew unit when you immobilised them and blew all the guns off, and their guns were much less effective. When the new Predator rules allowed twin lascannon, everybody took that because why wouldn't you? Even ONE lascannon was better than one autocannon. I forget when Instant Death came in as a formal rule but that would have pretty much cemented it, since S7 could never ID marines. Then the other variants - particularly the Baal Predator - and the other available tanks, like the Razorback which can give almost the same firepower plus transport for a combat squad, or the various Land Raiders, those made the Predator Destructor obsolescent. It's relatively recent, I think even 7.5E with HH1, that the Predator autocannon becomes a thing again, with heavier rules. Like why would you spend 100 points on a twin-las Predator with no sponsons in 7E, when you could spend 75 on an only slightly lighter twin-las Razorback that dies just the same to the same anti-tank anyway?

>>97487461
if you want to win anything you'll need to get your EGO renewed

>>97487515
Anon you can't do math, +1 A is infinitely better than +1 S unless you literally can't hurt the model otherwise

>>97487486
Despoilers in an interdiction cadre are excellent, if you’re getting rolled by tacticals in melee I’m not sure what to tell you. Four mauls will make sure you win combat and route the enemy. Skill issue.

>>97487525
I don't want to win, I want to kill

>>97487515
Chainswords are fine as they are. They have been fancy basic close combat weapons for longer than most 40k players have been alive.

I hate how chainswords did something for one edition that barely lasted three years, and now people are being entitled little shits about it. Not everything has to be a special little snowflake.

>>97487527
four mauls + tlc on the sarge. You should be rolling everything other than dedicated combat units

>>97487504
Gotta roll better anon ;__;
They'd lose melee by like a single wound, innit? 50-50 chance let's goooo

>>97487550
Relying on having decent dice rolls is the worst possible strategy.

>>97487548
This anon gets it, despoilers do exactly what they’re supposed to.

>>97487544
Anon the entire reason horus heresy was popular in the first place was because marine players got tired of being bullied by Eldar, Tau, and et others for being the basic bitch army that everyone else was special compared too

>>97487572
It’s a game primarily about rolling dice, all the math in the world won’t save you if you have shit luck.

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>>97487544
>Not everything has to be a special little snowflake.
Completely disagree: every weapon should have a proper niche. Chainswords will be fine the day you'll take one on a centurion because you chose to instead of because you couldn't afford a power weapon that is better in every possible metric.
It's thinking like yours what necessitated Loken's Chainsword to be reimagined as a chain-toothed Paragon Blade, and Abaddon's regular power sword & power fist to become paragon blade & relic fist: normal weapons had no niche, so they had to be replaced for super special versions to be viable.

Make normal options viable.

>>97487612
Chainswords have AP 5, making them rather useful against militia and such. Not everything needs to have a specific niche against space marines.

>>97487627
What isn't useful against militia? The only thing that saves militia is cover and bad luck.

>>97487612
Chain weapons should have +1 to wound

>>97487637
>Has never seen somebody get a lucky 5+ saves streak that turns around a game
Confirmed nogames.

>>97487627
>Chainswords have AP 5, making them rather useful against militia and such.
A Chainsword is actually as good against militia as a power sword is. On a ~100 pts model like a Centurion, +10 pts to take a power sword is affordable to make it okay against everything, unlike a "cheaper" Chainsword, which is okay against only a niche faction.
Let chainswords be BETTER than power weapons against the niche faction, and be less worse against the common Marine faction in this Marine vs Marine game.
>>97487641
I like your idea. So, no A+1, rather just S+1 to all chainsweapons across the board?

>>97487663
In WHFB I had a 4+ save streak for three rounds of combat on one model against two units (managed to even whittle one of the units below half strength). Same game also had me rolling a 6 on a single die to cast a fireball (6+ to cast) and my opponent rolled four dice to dispel, all 1s.

All I request is for the rule called "Implacable Advance" to be renamed:
True Grit
That is all, thank you for your attention to this matter.

>>97487708
I 100% support this.

>>97487612
>Chainswords will be fine the day you'll take one on a centurion because you chose to instead of because you couldn't afford a power weapon that is better in every possible metric.
No, thats fucking retarded.

Its like saying boltguns should be side to side equal with plasma-guns and fancy volkites, rather than balanced through cost.

Chainswors are the basic cheap crap. Power weapons are more expensive but better. Power fists, thunder hammers and paragon blades are the tier above that.

>>97487892
>Its like saying boltguns should be side to side equal with plasma-guns and fancy volkites, rather than balanced through cost.
Boltguns ARE better than plasma guns against militia, for plasma guns fire 2 shots but bolters can shoot up to 3 shots. Volkite chargers are a better comparison to plasma guns in that aspect: cheaper, same shots, same wounding of militia on 2+, same negation of armour, but more damage because Deflagrate.

>>97487915
>same wounding of militia on 2+
Boltguns dont wound militia on 2s.

>>97487915
Bolters getting 3 shots is a Tactical squads thing, NOT a bolters thing.

>>97487940
Hence I moved the comparison to volkite chargers. Comparing bolters to plasma guns is like comparing chainswords to thunder hammers, a weapon two tiers above.
>>97487981
Then compare them to volkites or combi-bolters, both of which cost +5 to plasma guns' +10. Both of which are better than plasma guns against militia, so they do have that niche, even after taking cost into account

>>97487999
>compare them to combi bolters
The weapon with just 100% more damage?

>>97488024
The weapon that costs half as much as a plasma gun, yeah that one

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>>97487999
The point was that basic, free weapons are not and should not be better at certain things than weapons that are not basic bitch free weapons. You have literally defeated your own argument whilst trying to move the goalposts.

>>97488089
We arent talking about plasma guns, were talking about bolters dipshit.

>>97488101
Enough gaslighting. It is you who moved the goalposts by comparing Chainsword vs Power blade to Bolter vs Plasma gun, which is itself a flawed comparison, as it should be Bolter vs Volkite charger.
Everything has tiers, and even "free" weapons both SHOULD have a niche, and they do use up a hand.
Weapons being base shouldn't make them lack a niche, even after accounting for cost
>>97488122
We aren't talking about plasma guns and bolters, we are talking about Tier 0 weapons vs Tier 1 weapons. Anon presented Bolters (0) vs Plasma (2) like it was a Tier 0 vs 1 comparison, which it isn't

>>97488146
>Creating arbitrary tiers for weapons in a desperate attempt to not look like a complete idiot
You should join the Olympics, this is an incredible level of mental gymnastics.
But first return to /40kg/ where you belong, you fucking tourist.

>>97488146
We are talking about tier 0 weapons vs tier whatever weapons. It doesent matter what you compare the boltgun to, combi bolters, plasma guns, volkites, theyre just worse. This is good, because bolt guns are the free default options.

Chainswords, similarly the free default option, should also be the worst. There should never be a situation where you actively want a chainsword over anything else.

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i n f e r n u s
>It would dissolve and reform into the very thing that those it hunted feared most
do ho ho
love her to bits

>>97488372
free default options that do basically nothing in 90% of cases is all well and good except for there are units which literally cannot upgrade from tier 0 to tier 1 and thus are stuck with basic free do-nothing weapons and can only contribute abstract "victory point scoring" which makes them pointless for any mission with actual interesting rules.

>>97488461
Then dont take them.

>>97488461
No actual melee unit is limited to only chainswords.

>>97488372
>bolters are tier 0
>worse weapons exist
interesting.

>>97488485
>>worse weapons exist
Not in the marine arsenal they dont.

>>97488489
>What is bolt pistols

>>97488496
A sidearm.

>>97488503
You heard the man, anons: bolt pistols are not weapons.

>>97488518
>Bro wants to compare bolt pistols to main guns
You gonna compare bolt pistols to plasma guns too, anon? :^)

>>97488372
>We are talking about tier 0 weapons vs tier whatever weapons.
Lmao no we're not. Tier 0 ought to be comparable to tier 1 weapons by means of having a niche instead of being worse in every possible way except being some 5 pts cheaper. Oooh big incentive for an Officer, to save 5 pts!

>>97488566
>Tier 0 ought to be comparable to tier 1 weapons by means of having a niche
It has a niche of being cheaper.
>Oooh big incentive for an Officer, to save 5 pts!
Thats you usually get better stuff on an officer and tend to not put them on massed troops since it gets pricey.

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>>97488559
Going
>"Nuh-uh doesn't count because of my arbitrary distinctions I only reveal after the fact!"
every time is peak woman behaviour. You're a real disingenuous cunt anon, are you on your period or something? You can't even give or accept a straight answer to
>Are bolt pistols weapons yes/no
>Are they worse than bolters yes/no
because that would prove you wrong. So keep grasping at straws and performing olympic level mental gymnastics, it only makes you look more and more pathetic.

>>97488496
not him but aside from range the performance of bolt pistols is identical, unless you're /hhg/ and think stats and probability are the same thing like some kind of middle school shortbusser

>>97488614
>Anon, you should compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges
>"SO APPLES JUST DONT EXIST THEN HUH?"
Gaslighter supreme

>>97488657
Range is king though.

>>97488614
>>Are they worse than bolters yes/no
Nta, but bolter + empty hand is indeed better than bolt pistol + Chainsword, now that bolters don't prevent charging.
That's kind of what started this whole reply chain, or at least furthered it. We're back at the beginning!

>>97488566
No you retard. Things that are "comparable but in different niches" are in the same tier.

Things that are in a lower tier are just worse, you should never want to go a tier down.

>>97488721
that's not what the anon you're replying to was saying.
Tier 1 should be better, generally, than Tier 0.
Tier 0 should be competitive with Tier 1 in a single niche. And worse in all others

>>97488729
No. No they should not. Power weapons are not competetive with thunder hammers or paragon blades, nor should they be. Chainswords are not comparable with power weapons, nor should they be.

You access is a reward in its own right. You should never choose a lower tier weapon except to save points.

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Chainswords have a niche in 40k because xenos reappeared, whereas in 30k they are all but non-existent.
You'd think that a civil war was the right time for xenos to attack a busy imperium. Nope. They were gracious enough to let mankind sort itself out.

>>97488775
That.. would be exactly the result? The case as it is is that you don't pick "lower tier" weapons because the gulf of power is larger than the gulf of points.

Nobody is saying a power sword should be equal to a paragon blade. They are saying that a power sword should do 1 thing as good as a paragon blade, and everything else worse. So that there would be a points and power disparity without being something ludicrous like a paragon blade being 50 points to a power sword's 10 points.

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Suggestion: Add a Charnabal Chainblade into the Charnabal Weapon list. Something that's better than a stock chainsword for characters and some units.

>>97488813
Just let items be Mastercrafted for double their cost in points
>inb4 mastercrafted thunder hammer

>>97488813
I liked charnabal sabres being Breaching 5+ in 2.0. Made them equivalent to same-priced power swords – a charnabal sergeant had a good chance of killing an equal armed with a power sword.
Now charnabals are cheaper, worse, and they aren't really that good for duels either

>>97488813
charnabal weapons in general should be the same tier as chain weapons instead of power weapons, given their current rules.

>>97488794
In the lore there actually were countless xenos species seizing the opportunity the Imperium's infighting represented. I just is not represented in the game at all, and barely mentioned in the nu-lore.

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I think I overdid it on the weathering powder a bit, but overall I think it came out pretty good.

>>97488694
>discussion about fruit in general
>NOOOOOOOO YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO COMPARE APPLES TO ORANGES BECAUSE... BECAUSE I SAY SO!
This is literally you.

>>97488864
Nice tractor.
>>97488871
kill yourself

taking chainswor on your praetor should gove you reroll on determining who is buying pizza for the gamenight. Change my mind.

>>97488864
Malcadors are naturally dusty

>>97488876
I accept your concession. Fucking loser, lmfao.

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I know that 2 of the Black Books go into some detail about it, but what I can to learn more about the Imperialis Armada? The Imperial Navy is my favourite part of 40k by far (BFG most played tabletop game ever) and I want to dive into the Great Crusade/Heresy equivalent.
Novel, sourcebook, campaign supplement etc. Let me know!

>>97488846
Naaaw let them be on the same level. Again, that was really neat
>>97488871
Retard

>>97487137
They're basically tacticals with worse BS but more staying power, they're not going to be doing A LOT of killing. Line (1) is probably the right call for them in general.

Want to add 1k of blackshields to my mechanized Auxillia. I know Alone and Forgotten got nerfed but that or the Doomed Heroics one seemed like the most fun. Can the A&F oath cents take Jetbikes at all or just jump packs?

>>97488804
>The case as it is is that you don't pick "lower tier" weapons because the gulf of power is larger than the gulf of points.
Correct, and thats what it should be. The only time you wouldnt take the upgrade is when you dont have the points to take it. This is how it should be.

>They are saying that a power sword should do 1 thing as good as a paragon blade
No, thats fucking retarded.

You should never think "well, id rather a power sword than a paragon blade". They (paragon blades) are better weapons and SHOULD be better weapons.

You should never think "well, id rather have a chainsword than a power sword". They (power swords) are better weapons and SHOULD be better weapons.

You should never think "well, id rather a boltgun than a combi bolter"...

>>97487220
The equipment gives them the extra attack
>But what about tac sergeants
Because GW hates tac sergeants, no other unit has this problem

>>97488993
learn to read you freak. you're not even engaging with what the posts you're replying to are saying, and instead arguing about your own unrelated thing.

>>97488994
>breacher squad
>tactical support squad
>heavy support squad
>reconnaissance squad
>outrider squadron
>scimitar jetbike squadron
>seeker squad

>>97488841
Weapon tiers discussion aside, this sounds comfy. Well, maybe +1D instead of 2xD.
Master crafted bolter thud thud thud.

>>97489036
GWs hatred has no bounds or logic.

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>>97488876
Hey, it's not a tractor, it's a rolling fortress of doom and despair! >:(

>>97489036
None of those should be getting a pistol + CCW bonus anyway

>>97489010
I am, youre just a fucking retard.

The fact that the cost disparity between weapon tiers is greater than their points disparity is as it should be. Higher tier weapons should simply be better. A paragon blade should not be balanced against a chainsword, there should be exactly zero instance of you giving your praetor a chainsword.

>>97489058
at that point the option shouldn't even be allowed and they should just be letting the praetor take a pick of paragon blade or thunder hammer, if the points discount isn't even enough to make up for the power disparity.

It wouldn't even be about saving points, you just wouldn't take the shit options ever, at all, and would optimize around taking the good options.

At the end of the day, you'd effectively have 40k 10th edition points costs but with extra work.

>>97489091
Or you can not be a faggot and take whatever you want

>>97489058
>there should be exactly zero instance of you giving your praetor a chainsword
>>97489127
>take whatever you want
how do reconcile these conflicting wolves

>>97488956
Not a lot to dig into, sorry.

>>97489142
dualwielding chainsword and thunderhammer.

>>97489091
All of that won't matter one bit, because in the end people are still gonna use nothing but thunder hammers wherever they can.

>>97488993
>The only time you wouldnt take the upgrade is when you dont have the points to take it.
Yuck! The only time people should talk to you is when there's no one else to talk to.

>>97489058
Aw come on just let all options be actually viable

What a stupid ass argument

>>97489144
Yeah, it seems like the (rather small) amount of lore we get in the Black Books + Visions of Heresy is all we got. And I dislike the Black Book lore a little as they tried to massively shrink the size and scale of the ships and thus reduce their cool factor.

>>97489197
Chainswords are viable at lower point games where taking them might enable you to take more better stuff.

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>>97489147
Careful. 30k is hammer only. They might accuse you of being a 40k primaris

>>97489197
All options are viable, they just aren't all equally viable on the exact same model or unit.
Wanting perfect balance is a pointless pursuit, and leads to the boring mindless garbage that 40k has become. 40k is a perfect example of why it is a vain goal, because even without weapon options costing points and there almost being no difference between units and weapon profiles all to achieve equal viability between all options, people still only use "the best" options.
Things not being equal adds flavour, interesting interactions, and nuance provided the differences aren't too extreme of course And realism because guess what, life is not fair.

>>97489282
>Beer gut models
>Excessive tacticool weapons galore
Pr*marines are so blatantly designed to capturing the US market it isn't even funny any more.

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>>97489282
Oh hey, it's Polux!

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Has anyone got a high quality scan of the Aeronautica Imperialis Age of Darkness rulebook? The one online is poopoo and lacks the lore/pictures which I'm also interested in.
TIA anons <3

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>>97489334
a trve hero
there's only one thing worth dying for

>>97489334
>mfw Greggs is out of Steak Bakes

>>97489334
>Not scowling in constant pain and/or rage
Not the real Angron.

>>97489334
I feel like Angron is the Primarch's with the most consistant face in the various artworks we've got across the years...pre-ascension/fall obviously.

>>97489369
a brief moment of clarity
keep in mind, absent the nails and the rest of his tragic circumstance he would've been a fucking paragon of humanity, brotherhood and beneficence with real peer only in the likes of sanguinius
abjectly one of the most noble primarchs at heart

>>97489369
That's what Angron looks like when he's snoozing. It's the closest he gets to REM sleep

>>97489385
Apparently humanitarism comes with heavy melee focus

@97489320
Keep asking, cunt, I'm sure it'll be this thread. Fuck you.

>>97489408
those who reject it get the chainaxe
it is no blemish to be a vicious prosecutor of the unification of man which is all the hounds could be accused of prior to their.... furthered uplifting via cortical augmentation let's say

>>97489302
Among all the things I dislike about 40k, especially "free" (more like pre-paid) wargear, the one good thing to come out of 10E is chainswords being anti-horde, power weapons being anti-armoured.
Separate game system aside, having all options being valid doesn't seem like a bad thing to have.

i will also put forward the question of how many other legions are known to have evoked bloodless surrender at the mere notion of their in particular potential deployments against errant worlds and polities
no small thing!

>>97489491
>i will also
You will do nothing. Kill yourself.

>>97489421
I heard Nails suppress fear and restraint, promote aggression and rewrite the dopamine reward system to violence. Is that so?
But then how do Angron's nails work?

>>97489491
>other legions
Besides the Night Lords? Idk

>>97489581
Angron's butchers nails are even more insidious and cruel. They don't allow him even a moment of rest, free of pain or peace of mind, only teasing a forever out of reach moment of serenity as a reward for increasingly excessive violence.

>>97489197
Chainswords are "viable" in the sense that they are the base free shit low tier options get.

Its like asking for hand weapons to be better than something else.

>>97488375
Fuck this gooner slop, you should be ashamed of yourself.

>>97489316
holy fuck it is lol.

>>97489630
More pain, but not necessarily more gain, is it? It seems Angron's Nails were killing him in about 200 years, defeating even a Primarch's regeneration. Yet Kharn has lived 10,000 years with Garlan Surlak's version just fine.
Seems he's better at surgery than Nuceria. Why did the Emperor even bother keeping that planet? Did they have anything of value? Should've chainaxed them all to death baka

>>97489807
>Its like asking for hand weapons to be better than something else.
What does this even mean?

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gonna be making marine juice, I hope it's as good as people claim

>>97489902
ignore him. he has the mind of a pole and the writing skills of an american

>>97489896
The reason the nails were killing Angron was because his primarch biology was fighting to reject the bionic implants, whilst the archeotech tier butchers nails fought back and starting replacing more and more of his brain and spinal cord as a result.
In a regular human this wouldn't happen. And it does make them more effective, as people will generally fight harder and go to more extremes to find a way to escape chronic pain. More so than to chase a dopamine reward.

QRD on blood angels in 30k, the red thirst and ka'bandha's relation with them?

>>97489923
the old recipe or sledges updated one?

>>97490006
A bunch of bloodthirsty assholes who learned how to obfuscate their bloodthirsty asshole nature by reciting poetry and styling their hair. But because they are nonetheless bloodthirsty assholes the boss of bloodthirsty assholes decided they should join his gang.

>>97487000
>turn one warp-displace and charge
Best part of not using stratsgems is not having to deal with that FUCKING stratagem

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>>97489962
>people will generally fight harder and go to more extremes to find a way to escape chronic pain.
Dunno. I see Diabetic patients develop chronic pain, the protective myelin sheath of their nerves starts deteriorating. That causes pain, and that sheath doesn't really come back.
The solution? The brain numbs sensations from that part of the body. It's either turn that off or constant pain.
Idk it's a sad thing to see someone's body break down piece by piece like that, but the brain is really that pragmatic.

Dopamine (and Endorphines?) on the other hand, is the big reward: A low O2 content in the body feels bad, so the body automatically inhales trying to fix that. Even if you are under water willing yourself not to breathe, the body will eventually inhale, like it or not.
Fentanyl kills by activating the pleasure centers 100%. A person that feels as good as one can ever feel is unable to perceive the bad feel that is low O2. So they just don't breathe and die.

TLDR the brain is willing to mutilate itself to ward pain off, but is willing to die for more of the good stuff, if it's good enough.

Also mind yall's sugar levels. Getting chopped off bit by bit is no way of living. Or dying, either.

>>97490151
the updated one with armypainter dark tone

>>97489902
In warhammer fantasy there are several different melee weapons. Of those one is "hand weapons" - which fits the same role as chainswords do in 40k although theyre more accurate to be called "close combat weapons" in that they do literally nothing.

They are the default that all units have, and all weapons are better than them.

>>97490334
To add: The idea that you would ever have your character equipped with "a hand weapon" if you intend for them to engage in combat is laughable, they are the mark of budget, a sign that whatever model is equipped with them isnt expected to do SHIT in combat except maybe not die.

Expecting chainswords to be viable on elite melee troops up against actual weapons is expecting those weapons to be viable up against the other special weapons (or magic weapons, to which there isnt exactly a good analogue in 30k, but imagine those broken relics from 1e) is silly. Theyre the default nothingburger.

Now, you could argue that chainswords shouldnt LITERALLY be nothing (which they essentially are in 3e), and that would be a fairer argument. Whether chainswords should or shouldnt be meaningfully superior to regular close combat weapons is another matter entirely.

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>>97488984
Eh, give them rad charges and throw them into melee, they'll at least bully most other troops off of objectives between their shooting and assault phases.

>>97486854
Jesus I hate printed boards so much, I swear I felt like I was having a stroke trying to process the perspective of this image.

>>97490388
I dont think theyre exceptional at it, but sure, if they get a volley/charge off they could probably beat tacticals.

>>97486869
I kinda like 'em. At least they're less retarded than the Murdertoddlers that are the ranged versions.

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>>97490175
but was their space dad as much of a bloodthirsty asshole as the rest ?

well the marine juice worked how I hoped
made the armour look more like a DG colour but after some drybrushing with some cool whites it made it more WE

>>97490452
Somehow I cannot shake the feeling your guy's left calf is a prosthetic under the greave

>>97490452
Sorry, right greave