New thread without waiting for hours after the old one slides off the board? What madness is this?

>>97866706
I happened to be online lol

>>97866711
I would do it myself but I have no /bgg/ core OP pics saved

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>>97866746
>spoiler
You got to get creative and brew your own.

I have recently got caverna and played a few games.

I love it. There are so many strategies to try, and it seems that many things are viable. I was worried that it would not have any tension, compared to Agricola. My worries were in vein. It is definitely less punishing, but I think there are still some mind games and the timing of things is crucial. The furnishing tiles are really cool.

Uwe is such a good designer. Maybe I should check Black Forest at some point. If only I could find a place that sells the second printing, since the first one apparently has some qc issues, with bendy and even moldy boards

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>>97866746
>get literally any random image
>add "board games" to it such that it can be read in the catalog

It's that easy.

A boardgame shouldn't be over $40 bucks.

>>97866840
Okay Milton

>>97866809
can you guys pick cool art instead of this lame generic fantasy slop tho

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>>97866930
We repeat: contribute and make your own to donate.
Anons should yearn for the ms paint mines.

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>>97866954
here's my idea for proper shoopin maybe later

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>>97866994
Now thats what Im talking about!

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>Who said Gayner Knizia?

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Damn, I used to have dozens of these

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>>97867061
I will aid you

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>>97867061

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>>97867061
3/?

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>>97867061
I made a couple

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>>97867061

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What is this, a gore thread?

I really want to get into Arkham Horror more again to justify the base box I got used from the marketplace but I just seem to bounce off the deck building mechanic and the absolute myriad of components and cards you can get.
I'm playing the super complete edition for TTS that automates everything and provides you with several hundred dollars of content but all I can think is "ehhh"
Mythos stuff is usually right up my alley but everytime I tried to get into it I just got bored. Played path to Carcossa up to stage 5 or something but it just didn't click. It's probably time to lay it to rest. Getting into it more would probably trick me into buying shit I'm not really going to play.

Kino pics desu

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>>97866759
vein is a meat tube in your leg
vane is a wind sale
vain is what you worry in

Why are ameritrash game full of giant plastics , come in giant boxes and have a ton of add-ons and expansions. What are the best ameritrash games that come in a normal box size and don't have a ton of giant plastic minis?

>>97867350
Pax Ren, Summoner Wars, Merchants & Marauders, Dune, Cosmic Frog, Stationfall, Arcs, Spooktacular.

>>97867350
Spaco

>>97867350
more plastic = more fun, dummy

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>>97867350
What you dont like it when the minis take up more room than the zone they occupy?

>>97867400
This shit drives me up the wall. War of the ring is nearly unplayable without the bigger spaces and bigger text from the Playmat.

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>>97867369
seeing these, I don't even know what makes an > ameritrash game

>>97867400
I don't even play these type of games but this kind of stuff really bothers me. Is this intentional design or what?

>>97867419
Just use armies bro

>>97867419
I dont get why more games dont use overflow spaces like the COIN games use.
And those are just for wooden octagons, cubes, and discs!

>>97867434
>seeing these, I don't even know what makes an > ameritrash game
Slave to theme, randomness, and lots of aggressive interaction.
In short, same as its been since the perjorative came out 20+ years ago.

>>97867388
I prefer meeples over plastic minis personally

I really want to live wehrleslop but every time I tried I bounced off his games

>randomness
>pax ren
>dune (outside harkonnen REALLY high rolling early gar)
bait

>>97867449
What about them repels you? Which have you tried?

>>97867434
>I don't even know what makes an > ameritrash game
that's because it's an outdated, useless descriptor that should be retired (and does seem to be going to the wayside)

>>97867419
>War of the ring
Love the game. The armies get too crowded but it's fine.
Speaking of WotR, what are some other area control, military conquest games? Not the fast Kemet style games but more slow plodding, supply line management, positioning, etc.

>>97867468
The kingmaking. I like when I get my plan going just right and I don't get it in his games

>>97867498
Come on man, this is basically the shitpost criticism.

Thoughts on Maria? I don't care about the setting but I find the gameplay interesting enough and want to give it a go.

>>97867350
Nexus ops

>>97867509
It's not though

>>97867350
COIN is ameritrash.

>>97867498
Arcs is immune to kingmaking unless someone sucked so bad they're not in contention at all

>>97867527
I tried root and pax pamir. I want to try arcs but don't feel like dropping money on the base game+expansion just to feel disappointed

>>97867498
There isn't really a way around that, he designs his games with a pretty strong implicit social element in mind so if you don't have the right mindset you just won't enjoy them. In Root for example people are going to immediately move to cripple you if you're obviously threatening to win, so the game is just as much about playing the table to fly under the radar to victory as it is about good on-the-board play. You just have to approach the games with those social elements in mind. Ultimately if you just want to focus on on-the-board strategy you won't end up having much fun, although there's no harm in his games not being for you.
>>97867509
I like his games and I don't think it's unreasonable at all, he did a whole hour long talk about kingmaking and it's clearly something he designs around.

>>97867541
It's still pretty hot so it wouldn't be hard to resell without losing much if that counts for anything, no need to push yourself if you've already tried your hand thoroughly with his other games though.

>>97867494
>supply line management
>Reeeeeeees in Maria/Fred and Nevsky
>dies in Supply Lines of the American Revolution

>>97867541
Arcs doesn't need the expansion, it's a wholly different experience. It's less a "lords of middle earth" enhancement and more of a "cities and knights" that uses the same pieces to radically change the game.

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>>97867461
I'm glad you always roll the reformation one shots when you need them in the market.
So so so happy for you.

>>97867543
Yes I didn't like the root games I played because even when I won I felt like cheating the table
>>97867552
I go to a board game club so I'll probably ask to set up a campaign of blighted reach sooner or later

>>97867568
Reformation is dogshit in the first place. If you're fishing for them you fucked up like 3 turns ago

>>97867580
>its n-n-not randomness! Its game b-b-balance!
Concession accepted.

>>97867590
>Play bad
>AIEEEEEEE RNGesus saves me
Ok

>>97867606
You missed the original point so hard it's rather embarrassing to witness.

>>97867572
Root, especially with the inherently unbalanced nature of the different factions, is basically always going to feel that way since playing the table well is nearly as important as playing the game well. I've had a lot of fun with it but I'm a big fan of those semi-social games where negotiation is a significant part of winning, if you have a strong lean towards more straightforward engine building and you've already played enough to have a taste for the game I can't imagine it suddenly clicking for you.

>>97867350
Merchants & Marauders is what you want.

>>97867617
Git gud

>>97867618
I don't like engine building games, I simply hate how in root everyone (should) know the other players' win con and your win entirely hangs on how well you can gaslight the table to conceal how close to winning you actually are

>>97867662
Ebbin double down

>>97867681
It's fine to be bad at complex ganes

I made the mistake of asking a girl if she wanted to play board games with me. The look she gave me is burned into my brain. She knows I'm autistic now

>>97867716
Bro the main reason you get a gf is to have someone to play boardgames with. She was simply not up to par

>>97867726
You're describing a boyfriend.

>>97867726
>Bro the main reason you get a gf is to have someone to play boardgames with.
Holy shit no I'm glad I have boardgaming to myself

>>97867674
The only reason this doesn't happen in engine building solitare euros is because there's too much to calculate/guess at in others engines, and you're too focused on your on little world.

/bgg/ lost all respect from me with thier continual hate of negotiation and kingmaking. That's what player interaction is.

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>>97867726
>the main reason you get a gf is to have someone to play boardgames with
The punchline is: you are serious

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>>97867817
I volunteer!

>>97867844
I guess it's just different philosophies, for me I'm plenty into the more esoteric autist games but I tend to play board games for the interaction and social aspects; big part of why I like Root because it tends to strike a good middle ground between complicated gameplay and interactive social gaming.

>>97867844
What? No.
Can't speak for the whole of /bgg/ but it comes down to this for me
> luv games that have a mechanical framework for negotiation and exchange (eg. Chinatown, Dune)
>hate games that desperately need players to negotiate to police the table/counteract inherent imbalances, yet insist on having it take place entirely above the table (Root, Oath)
Simple as

>>97867852
4 types of human behaviour
>Angry bald man
>"Theehee silly me" woman
>"You did NOT just say that" woman (male)
>The gently swaying perpetually confused drunk

Business life must be hell

>>97867895
>you don't have to police the table in Chinatown or Dune
Sheer cope

>>97867922
The genders are less relevant but you nearly nailed it.

It's: anger, joy, envy, sadness and fear

>>97867541
try base arcs and see how you feel. get to a point where everyone is playing competently and you'll see what i mean. the point swings in the late rounds are big enough so that no one is out of contention, and since scoring is zero sum you're forced to take what you need to win from the person who has it
these same dynamics apply to campaign arcs - mostly. there are more types of scoring in the final arc that require you to to pay attention to other player's objectives, but again if everyone is playing well there won't be kingmaking
the campaign is definitely wehrleslop though. if a player is behind and stands to help me, i'll give them a sweet deal that i would never give a player in better position. this mostly serves to keep everyone in a balanced position though, which is my ideal

>>97867953
>if everyone is playing well there won't be kingmaking
That applies to any game where kingmaking is a "problem".

it's this >>97867726 and this >>97867895 one for me
you guys not like your gfs or what? they dumb?

>>97867085
fug I feel like I should remember where those animal pieces come from but I can't

>>97867926
Chinatown's biggest problem is if someone isn't a moderator, people WILL trade and place properties before half the table even got to talk to them. Well, the real biggest problem is during the final round you can pretty much know who's going to win, and then the game becomes mental math

>>97867926
Did you miss the part of the post where it is about mechanically representing the negotiation part of the game vs not on purpose?

>>97868113
True, I think chinatown (and most pure negotiation games for that matter) kinda need to be played with a relatively short timer to force more gut based decisions; otherwise you end up with someone mathing it out and grinding everything to a halt

>>97868169
Chinatown math is not long, a timer doesn't rush anyone, and theres even less mechanical representation of negotiation in chinatown. The negotiations are all external to the game explicit formalized player action.

You are just digging for rationalizations for a game you are more emotionally invested in.

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>>97867400
>>97867434
This is nothing.
Welcome to Death May Die!

>>97867252
Are you playing it solo? I don't know how anybody could play it solo. It's only fun with 2+ where there's some table talk, planning, and combo setup, only to be ruined by shit token pulls and literally the most punitive encounter card going out to the wrong players at the wrong times.

If you have some buds that like to fuck around with deckbuilding and are fun to be around, it's 10/10. It's a social game and not something to be taken seriously as like a real board game or great narrative arc.

I played the DRG boardgame for the first time. As a fan of the game, it does a good job adapting the chaos and bit of randomness of the game. Probably one of the better videogame adaptations.

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>>97868113

The last round of Chinatown is only a cleanup round, it's there as a formality. Once you realize that, the game's gold.

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>>97868291
Seems like a decent idea, how does this turn out in practice?

>>97867085
>>97867087
Thanks, those were mine! The only one I'm really missing now is Holes of Glory 2: Iberian Boogaloo
>>97868081
Bumuntu

I'm either too good at Ricochet Robots or all my friends are retarded.

>>97868494
many such cases

>>97868234
The difference is that I would actually play this, however .

>>97868577
What? Mythic Battles is the absolute bees knees!

>>97867252
It's a game I'm glad I played a campaign of, but I don't particular like it so much as admire it. I haven't played a more atmospheric game.

>>97868610
You should try Last Night On Earth, the best horror survival game ever made.

>>97867844
>The only reason this doesn't happen in engine building solitare euros is because there's too much to calculate/guess at in others engines, and you're too focused on your on little world.
It's a pretty big reason and a natural solution. Also
>solitare euros
you smuggled in another reason without apparently noticing. Low interaction games also tend to have less of a kingmaking problem.

>/bgg/ lost all respect from me with thier continual hate of negotiation and kingmaking. That's what player interaction is.
Wehrle legitimately broke you people's brains.

>>97868343
When there is a clear consensus one way or the other it goes straight to voting. A prior consensus is common when throwing people overboard so being able to end the discussion is more impactful when voting on leaks and movement. If there is deliberation the turn player ends it as soon as they have said there piece. Which encourages people to talk over each other to say what they need to before that happens. Some people like that, some people do not. There are two universally awkward cases though. The turn player does not always have a clear incentive to allow or disallow discussion when voting to throw someone out of a boat they are not on. And early on when people are forming partnerships the discussion period can drag on if the turn player is having trouble finding people to work with.

>>97867988
true, but the way arcs is designed with vast swings of VP hinging on potentially single plays (assuming adequate preparation) gives it a wider band than most games

>>97868214
Simply untrue and I have no idea why you are so strongly trying to argue against this point. You can exchange everything in chinatown. Everything that is in the game is a possible part of a transaction. It's true that the math isn't particularly challenging but 5 minutes per round are too precious to really dig deep into a single trade if its nonessential. As you say, if there's too much room to math it out it becomes quite tiresome.

deciding between buying mindbug or compile. what do you think?

How do I teach pax ren under an hour?

>>97868700
>Low interaction games also tend to have less of a kingmaking problem.

>>/bgg/ lost all respect from me with thier continual hate of negotiation and kingmaking. That's what player interaction is.

You literaly just said the same thing. I can't take you people seriously

>>97869299
It's literally just comparing the size of 2 triangles.

It's so easy, on my first play I intentionaly "king-made" from turn 1 and forced 2 players to have the same score and go into tie breaking.

>>97869299
>luv games that have a mechanical framework for negotiation and exchange

>exchange everything
That's not a mechanical framework thats a lack.
A game with a mechanical frame work for everything means you can make every deal silently.
If you have to talk, the game is closer to mechanicaly irrelevant. If you have to talk FOR EVERY THING you can ignore most of the game.

>>97869153
What is a "wider band"

The people who can't compete for the first turns points are unlikely to "setup" for late game swings

What's the difference between a game like War of the ring and 878 vikings? I only played WotR once and I saw people playing 878. Besides the ring mechanic/tracks they look similar. But I'm sure there are other major differences, especially looking at the complexity difference. Anyone played both and can explain what the main differences are?

>>97869299
>You can exchange everything...
Hang on, do you mean you don't like Root because you can't exchange cards in hand? You mean "unbound" not "mechanicaly represented".

Why is Wehrle so popular here? People can't stop talking about him and his games.
What's the appeal his games have that you all like so much?

>>97869810
he's popular in board games
his games have cute art and are sold in Target

>>97867541
base box includes vanilla arcs and Leaders & Lore variant which gives asymmetric powers to players, some say that's enough game for them and i can agree, the extra L&L pack is if you liked the game, and Blighted Reach is only if you wanna see even more rules in less turns on the same tiny map

>>97869705
>The people who can't compete for the first turns points are unlikely to "setup" for late game swings
why not? if you know you can't compete an Ambition you should set up to compete in the next round, hoard resoures or get a good Court card
on the other hand, Raid dice and the ability to quite literally steal a win also encourage setting up for a play when you're not in the lead. Ultimately it comes down to what you can do with your cards, but even 6 actions in a turn can be huge if you make them huge.

>>97869810
It's a case of presentation and hype amplifying his work. His games are not universally easy to get to the table
In general people overestimate how often they’ll play these games. But the underlying systems are genuinely distinctive and influential in modern design. I really dislike these kinds of games, and I don't feel like I'm capable of criticizing whether or not they're objectively well designed. I do wonder if he would stand a chance as a designer if he had to start all over again. I mean probably not but that's not unique to him. I think when you're successful you overestimate how talented you are. I know I did.

>>97867494
Wargames are what you are looking for. Some of my favourites are Sekigahara, Triumph and Tragedy and Paths of Glory.
>>97869437
I would go with Compile since it has more depth.

>>97867935
that's 5 not 4 wtf

>>97869526
print the action cheat sheet and hand it to them, and hold their hand through a couple of turns as an example.

>>97870225
I do have the player aids, I was looking more for tips about how to structure the teach, do I simply explain all the actions then the rest, starts from the win cons, stuff like that

>>97867511
>Thoughts on Maria?
It's a great game and different enough from Friedrich that you could own both.

Like Friedrich, the card based combat is superb - you have to balance going to battle early vs not (allowing your fellow players to gain cards and get stronger), you have to make sure you put yourself in good positions to use said cards and put your opponent in positions that aren't. You need to know which battles you can lose to bleed cards from the other general so they end up weaker and more prone to follow up attacks. Just nothing like it from a strategy standpoint.

The split map works well. Each faction is kind of asymmetric - how you win is the same but how you get there is different. France is the easiest to play because you're just racing for fortresses, Austria is playing the long game, and Prussia/Prag are trying to balance two sides of the map and focus on efficiency/area control because they have lots of generals but only one supply train. The political phase adds another hurdle that you need to figure out because some of those political cards you don't want in opponents hands.

Not necessarily a pro or con but there are some important play things that come up in expert play (Silesia annex, French demilitarization, good with Hussars) that don't come up in casual play but definitely put a thumb on the scale between experienced and unexperienced players. The deal making part of the game is a tack on and I probably have made one deal in 15-20 plays.

It's on Rally the Troops and the implementation is good (except the deal making). I definitely think it's better in person though. If you don't need all the bells and whistles of Maria and have 4 players, I think Friedrich is just as fun.

>>97869437
personally i find mindbug to be more fun with more interesting board states
get both though

thanks to all the people who recommended me some quick and easy 2 to 4 player games in the previous thread!

>>97870130
>>97870535
so my room mate just decided to get both for us.
curious to see how we'll enjoy them.

>>97870075
i think no pun intended and or shut up and sit down have a pretty interesting video on Arcs and their thoughts on his game design. if i remember correctly they argue that his game design is pretty innovative and will continue to influence future board game design, and they do make a similar point with wether they are objectively well designed. there is also an interesting talk from wehrle where he talks about his design and how sometimes it is very much about an emotion or feeling that he's trying to convey and designs the board game around that. shut up and sit down also has a really good video on john company and how this game is more something akin to an art piece, that will make you feel like a horrible person, and is designed to provide this experience, but that's also the reason why so many people hate it.

as for the art style, kyle ferrin has to be THE board game artist. i think he very much encompasses what board game art should be, it's a really appealing, comfy, playful, but also excentric art style. just looking at games with his art style makes me want to play them, it goes so well with the physical aspect of board games. i am really not into styles that look like digital fantasy or sci fi concept art, or anime or whatever and i think in the context of board games a lot of board game art falls flat or misses the mark and does not capture what makes board games unique to art forms of entertainment.

>>97869966
>even more rules
yep
>in less turns
only per act, overall more turns
>on the same tiny map
the base game blocks a sector, the campaign map does not

>>97870130
>Triumph and Tragedy
How much negotiating is in this game?
How long is a 3p game?

>>97870518
nta, but i am interested in a 3p game and Maria was highly recommended. From what I've seen it looks to be very heavy on logistics.

>>97870619
This guy wants to fuck woodland critters

>>97870619
>>97871027
>>97870075
I cannot imagine Oath without Kyle's art. It's so good at conveying the emotion you're supposed to feel

>>97871027
I feel bad for people who can tell if animals are sexy or not

>>97869966
>They can't compete now
>They can compete later!
Do wherle-heads actually believe this?

>>97870219
Yeah the 5th is a >>97870279
bad no no

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>>97871027
Your loss

>>97871378
Wtf

>>97869810
Wherle is only popular because of Kyle Ferrin. No one gives a shit about his other games.

>>97871379
I would respond with the spoiler you want, but 4chan won't let me upload a file that's too big, THAT I DOWNLOADED FROM THE PREVIOUS THREAD?

>>97871027
Nah. He wants cartoons.

>>97871393
Are you sure you didn't download a larger catbox file?

>>97871402
Yes i am the dumb

>>97871389
i like John Company i wish my playgroup liked it the same way I do but they're always weary of any transaction, and because no money changes hands the wheel of industry is not greased ell enough and we always lose the company by round 3.

>>97871371
Given the points scale in value as game goes on....yes?

Koi-Koi, need it or sneed it?

>>97871389
>No one gives a shit about his other games.
Pax Pamir proved otherwise.
Its ok to say you weren't around for 2019, no one will think less of you.

>>97871531
Yeet it into the sun

>>97871541
Not a hanafuda fan I take it

>>97871525
It's not about points. They have to win to get those points. They can't win now. Later becomes now. You think the current winners don't plan for the future too?

>>97870558
Tell us which ones you ended up buying.
>>97870575
Report back when you get to play them.
>>97870972
You can play the game without negotiating at all, which is how we play it. Expect your first games to be around 4-6 hours long but later to drop to 4 hours give or take.

>>97871480
Wary of transaction, wary

>>97871650
weary
adjective
1.
feeling or showing extreme tiredness, especially as a result of excessive exertion.
2.
reluctant to see or experience any more of; tired of.

i think my usage was apt, considering only other trading-heavy games they know of are Catan and Sheriff of Nottingham and Monopoly, maybe bad experiences in those soured them on the whole concept

>>97871560
bro when was the last time you played Arcs?

>>97871683
Im starting to think he never has

>>97871531
>trick taking
NOPE

>>97871393
>>97871422
your FBI agent has already marked this in your file

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>>97871757
I need to send that guy a care package, poor guy must have had a breakdown following me.

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>>97871752
It's not a trick taking game ackshually

>>97870219
the fifth is you

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>>97870972
>Maria
what the literal fuck

>>97871929
yeah thanks for clearing that up bro

>>97872095
No problem, I know it's a difficult concept for you to understand but I hope it got through to you regardless.

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>>97872078
You okay anon?

>>97872107
yes, it's not a trick taking game it's reverse go fish.

>>97871847
I would really like to meet the CIA team assigned to me. It would be a very interesting conversation.

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>>97870619

>>97872375
>foundation books not by Aasimov
Choke on a turkey bone and perspire profusely, you fat hack.

>>97871393
Post the _master1200

>>97871678
Oh, my mistake. I was literally thinking wary, my bad

What games will make you say "wow....I'm like a real life astronaut"

>>97872498
no he said chess is frustrating. chess is frustrating because except in the super rare case you get to play at your level it's an almost guaranteed outcome. you either slaughter the lower player or get slaughtered by the higher and there is rarely an upset. to move up you have to be already pattern savvy and then study and play A LOT. it's fucking stupid that you can study harder to win but only a few ranks and you'll never actually be truly good instead getting your ass handed to you by the homeless guy 9 times out of 10 instead of 10/10.

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>>97872711
Colombia astronauts?
Stationfall
Artemis Astronauts?
High Frontier

>>97872711
the crew
roll for the galaxy
eminent domain
space explorers
space base

>>97872733
!! high frontier mentioned !!

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>>97871531
I liked it enough to make a For Dummies style deck. Besides playing and teaching with friends, the plan was to slap it together with a book with the 80+ other uses for hanafuda only to realize it's literally just 3 games. Everything else is just formalized house ruling.
Still occasionally muse about finding an artist to throw this together, just feels like a hard sell since I didn't really do anything besides fix the lackluster one I found online.

>>97872615
I'm the dumb, I don't know what that is.

>>97872733
That board looks fantastic.
I will probably never get to play it.

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Holy shit holy shit holy shit this is promising.

>kemet expansion soon
Surely they'll reprint the base game too right?

>>97873347
ANOTHER one? Rise of the Gods just came out, is there even going to be room left for it in the already comically large big box?

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>>97873197
And that merger rule is absolutely spicy.
God bless splotter shenanigans.

Got my next couple Tragedy Looper scripts ready for Sunday. My friends have started getting cocky because they solved last week's script, so I went for harder ones this time.

>>97873453
Supposedly they're designing the expansion to fit in the leftover room in the big box.

After 4 cases it seems I’m a really bad Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective. I fucking love the idea of it but so far it’s just making me angry.

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>>97873478
Aaaaand five hours later, I lost by fucking 28 fucking dollars. FUCK.
I havent beaten my wife at a game since March 24th. The poor owner was getting mauled on shipping fees. 140 gross turning into 40$ net profit at one point. Came in an easy 1.3K behind us.
Killing it all game in shipping didn't matter when Bid multipliers kill more than half your sales in lost turn order.
Mergers you can't get in on that then add competition are brutal.
If it werent for length, I'd wager after some more session Indonesia would dethrone TGZ as my favorite Splotter.

>>97873620
I'll put it like this: the game would be less popular if it was just called "consulting detective" because noone would accept the absurd leaps he takes.
'Here's how I solved the case in record time because I arbitrarily followed a hunch about a cigarettes, you clot' only works when it's the supposed master detective. Still a fun game for a while

>>97873197
get yourself some poker chips dude
enjoy

>>97869678
>You literaly just said the same thing. I can't take you people seriously
I didn't literally say the same thing, I emphasized a point which was I think borderline unintentional in your previous post.

Also, just in case it wasn't clear, equating kingmaking to player interaction is retarded. You are retarded.

>>97873779
>five hours
Doesn't Indonesia play shorter the more players play?

>>97870619
>game design is pretty innovative and will continue to influence future board game design
What part of the game, what design? What part of the game are they referring to?

> make you feel like a horrible person, and is designed to provide this experience, but that's also the reason why so many people hate it.
How many people can say this is true for them? This seems more like something they say just for the "show"/review.

> kyle ferrin has to be THE board game artist
I like his art. It's great that he has a distinct style, but many games would not work with his art. He's great for his niche and thats fine, there are other great artist that have distinct styles that work for other games.

>I never actually played Arcs
He's just like me

How does Arcs differ from Root in the way they play? I didn't care for Root. Arcs looks more interesting but I'm also skeptical of the whole "trick-taking" action selection and the constant discussion of "kingmaking" in his games. The Pax style ambitions and the power cards are what looks the most interesting to me.

>>97873860
>he has a distinct style, but many games would not work with his art.
I've said it before, but I think his style looks suprisingly average when he's not using autumnal colours. Root and Oath are spectacular, but Ahoy and especially arcs don't work nearly as well.

>This seems more like something they say just for the "show"/review.
It 100% is if you ask me. Sure this is more historic than most games, but I can't help but wonder if they understood what 'play' means if it's super serious business that needs to be scrutinized and analyzed in one instance and entirely funny make believe in another.

>>97873184
It's the downsized image you can get from pixiv when you're not logged in. But it's mature content so you would have to be logged in to see it. I was making a joke.

>>97873194
there's also Leaving Earth if you want more Space Race era autism instead of "near future" space autism, but last I heard the people making that game were operating out of their garage and getting a copy might be harder than for normal games.

Just reporting in to say civolution is still extremely good after +15 games

>>97873981
have you tried the expansion stuff yet? played one game so far, interesting stuff

>>97873869
when people say that it feels like a knife fight in a phone booth, i think that's pretty spot on as far as arcs goes. it's dense throughout the whole game. it's easier to teach than root because there are no differences between each player, unless you add the leaders and lore cards, which is optional. with the limited amount of things you can do, you try to make the best of your situation at any given time, which can and will change drastically while at the same everyone is moving towards their own personal ruin and trying to score victory points in the mean time. it can be really hard to recover from destroyed ships or bases. for me it and other people i have played with turns take a while because everyone is constantly having to rethink their plans and try to figure out the best course of actions in the right order to make the most use of what little they have. i enjoy it but it's also really tense at all times. i played it like 7 times, still have to give it another go some time soon.

i think root is more fun, it's less punishing and more light hearted and allowes for some light role play which always adds flavor to the experience. my main problem with the root base game is that i dont like the vagabond, because he is not engaging much with the other players and the cats, while fine at first, turn out to be the most boring faction, so i am looking to replace those two. woodland alliance is amazing.

>>97873869
Arcs has less faction uniqueness (even in Blighted Reach) but imho that works to the games strength, to win you need to do the same thing as everyone else (control resources, kill enemies, capture agents via court shenanigans or taxing their cities you control) and most of these objectives rely on a limited supply of stuff to fight over, so whatever unique things you do get (from the court deck, from leaders and lore, or from your fate in Blighted Reach) is so much more interesting. And the action selection just means your plans need to be flexible or you should be focusing on making your few actions be impactful. There's ways to get around the trick taking, mainly resources, but those very same resources are what cuels objectives, so it's a constant seesaw of what you want to do and what you are willing to spend and risk to do it.

>>97873995
>root is <..> less punishing
each faction has a "thing you shouldnt do" that's not intuitive and not explicitly stated anywhere on the faction board, and doing that thing will cause you to lose the game, like birds using more than one suited card in the decree, moles building one building, or anyone playing against the vagabond or the rats not kicking the shit out of them. If you know these traps to avoid, Root is alright, but until you explicitly slam face first into every noob trap in the game and its metagame, it'll feel like its punishing you for playing.

>>97873984
The mini one? Yeah it's pretty neat. Nothing spectacular, just neat. Lvl4 modules are largely not necessary but give you an incentive to super specialize from early on, the beast are extremely useful and make hunting much better when before it was just ok and the prelude atteibute modules are just a good idea, even if some seem better than others (3 free features vs "put one more dude wherever at the start" for example). I do wish it had included more cards, but by inducing more opportunities to put modules on your board you do speed upthe game a little and make completing rows easier.

>>97873779
It took that long because you were playing a three player game. At higher player counts it gets shorter.

>>97873869
>How does Arcs differ from Root in the way they play?
Well, it's not a fundamentally broken imitation of COIN for one, but it does have the explosive turns people talk about to an even larger degree.

>kingmaking
Not really an issue in the base game. The VP gains are less predictable and the swinginess means that people play to win more than bash the leader. The campaign slop sort of reintroduces it because people are motivated to let someone else just do their objectives for free to "see what happens". It's genuinely rage inducing.

>trick taking
Sucks and anybody who says otherwise is coping. The only reason it's there is to facilitate swinginess. Which can make for interesting dynamics but 90% of it is just fighting against the game because you don't get the cards you want or because other players with initiative don't allow you for piggybacking.

Another one bites the dust. Fantasy Flight Games cancels the Act III expansion of Descent: Legends of the Dark.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2026/4/9/the-end-of-a-legend/

>>97872711
Space Alert

>>97873800
You haven't differentiated them. You reinforced thier connection.

Player interaction makes negotiation and kingmaking.
More options only obscure how the interaction happens.


You haven't even tried to seperate them, you said that kingmaking happens less, with less interaction. Thats what being bound means.

>>97874134
Your supposed to intentionaly take the initiative.

>>97874420
I didn't make any particular effort at differentiation beyond quoting the part about people being focused on their own little worlds. Which, just in case you're too daft to need explaining, doesn't only happen in MPS.

The reason I didn't bother is because you are a transparent pseudointellectual sophist retard who is very obviously coping rather than trying to have any kind of meaningful dialogue. The words are different because the meanings are different. Kingmaking is a subset of player interaction, not player interaction itself.

Last night I played a game of Churchill. The entire game we were people busting each other's balls and checking that nobody gets too far ahead. USSR took Berlin, US took Japan. Almost the closest possible point spread at the end of the game, all players within 1 point of each other. Only an absolute cretin would use the word "kingmaking" to describe any part of our match.

Is Kemet still the king of Doam/Area control or has it been usurped?

>>97874500
>Your supposed to intentionaly take the initiative.
This applies to everyone. So in a 4 player match, you'll be "intentionally taking it" once per chapter or less. And you will be burning a card for it. This does nothing to mitigate the fact that there are rounds where you get to take 8 actions or less versus 15 or more, not to mention the quality of those actions, depending purely on the card draws.

>>97872726
Yes Root where you just have to play out a linear matchup based gameplan or the outcome is pretty much determined by the armies on board is MUCH better

>>97874645
>Kemesis ever usurping Dune
Nah

>>97874645
It's the princess at best as long as Carcassonne is still around

I cant stop thinking about Indonesia.
How much of a hilarious clusterfuck is it at 5?

>>97875221
When I went to Indonesia I had a clusterfuck at 5. Costed me like 200 bucks and only 3 had penises.

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>>97875240
Doh hohohoho

>>97874645
>Doam/Area control
This can be so broad. Half the games can be "area control". See >>97875171

Anyway, Dominant species and old Dune are goats.
I don't care for the Lang game with giant minis or the Matagot trilogy although I haven't played Cyclades. Might be good idk. Mission red planet, Nexus ops and SmallWorld are good for their weight.
DS Marine has some awful iconography/color choices but I still want to try it.
I don't know any never games where it was all about area control/majority? Wroth?

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>>97875529
>all about area control
Bruh, how you disrespectin The Big like this!

>>97873897
Or you could just get an e6 sample

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Is the lightfag vs heavyfag discussion entirely born of fundamentally not understanding how one could/could not enjoy playing a game that is just something to do with your hands/secondary to a conversation?

>>97872711
Try any game where deception is the main gameplay mechanic.
>>97873995
>when people say that it feels like a knife fight in a phone booth
The only game that feels like this to me is Cuttle. It can be over in seconds if you're not careful. I never really understood what people meant by "feels like a knife fight in a phone booth" until I played Cuttle, and I've actually had a knife pulled on me and held to my gut before.

Tg is on fucking fire rn. Have any of you noticed or even give a flying fuck?

>>97875755
It's mostly a chest thumping display. Offline they can't do it because my cousin Kyle would rip their arms off for making fun of Ticket to Ride. There are a lot of people that base their entire identity on whatever hobby they feel they are more obsessed by than everybody else. They have nothing on Kyle though. He once ate a handful of plastic trains to stop me claiming the longest route.

>>97875816
My usage of this board for the four years I've been using it has solely been dedicated to this general.

>>97875816
What am I supposed to be seeing exactly? It looks like the same shithole every day?

>>97875848
You won't have a thread to come to if tg is destroyed but ok. Ig you can all hang out on board game geek or something.

>>97875856
The catalog looks fine, far better than my other hobby boards /co/ and /v/. I don't see what the issue is.

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>>97875853
Oh just some faggot making like 10 shitty threads. I would link them but they're all so lame I didn't want to inflict that cringe on others. It's some butthurt 2e osr faggot that declared war on tg. He's being somewhat effective too, from what I'm hearing from other anon's posts. Yo, please no one flame me, I'm just reporting the news

>>97875870
There's at least 8 threads. Ig I'm gonna have to link em so you can see what I'm talking about.

>>97875878
That again? It's not even the first time.

>>97875816
Have you tried not playing D&D 5e?
>>97875797
You guys were always saying that knife fight shit about Kemet but for me it was always more of a dick waving contest on a vast featureless plain

>>97875891
Yeah ik but previous attempts weren't effective. Apparently this one is. Maybe I'm just being an alarmist. If so, disregard.

8 fucking threads, what is wrong with you.
>>97872692 #
>>97860099 #
>>97837876 #
>>97874144 #
>>97874856 #
>>97870151 #
>>97875276 #

>>97875897
I just love games. Sorry if that offends your sensitivities.

>>97875903
These links came from this post >>97875550

>>97875755
i like both light and heavy games and i dont understand the point of conversation either. Some like simpler games, some like more involved rulesets. But what you talk about seems like a different conversation/issue altogether.
Games are played for the game, if you want something to fiddle with while talking get a fidget toy.

>>97875845
I'm the only one benching 100kg (and the only one benching at all) at my local boardgame club, I'm fairly sure I can beat kyle AND force him to average a 4.0 weight in the following weeks

>>97875936
Oh, I verymuch agree with that statement. Just that there are games so light there is barely anything there to engage with, and I wonder what drives people liking these. Seemed like a possibility, people liking a game just as background noise. Apparently I am too autistic for that, if I have a game in front of me, I'll actually play it and not only go through the motions.

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>that one guy at meetup

>>97875903
Bruh those look like normal threads, I think you're overthinking this.

>>97872078
>Maria
Do you really need the cubes "de luxe" upgrades?

>>97875529
>DS Marine has some awful iconography/color choices
such as?
>Wroth
its not good

>>97876417
Ya know, I hope I'm over alarmed. I really do. I love tg. It's one of the few places I've found I can get the unadulterated truth. That's worth it's weight in gold to me. Maybe others feel differently, idk.

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Turns out I didn’t outgrow board games… I just compressed my tastes until I became a logic puzzle aficionado. I stumbled across Slitherlink and Heyawake while thinking about pencil and paper games and roll and writes. Truly a slippery slope. Thought of the day: "What if I never liked board games?" I'm going home.

>>97876580
/Bgg/ will always be here for you tho.

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>>97876580
If you don't like player interaction you don't like board games.

>>97876580
are these posts a weird attempt at demoralisation or what

>>97876580
this guy plays Search for Planet X

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>>97876580
Can literally be boardgames. Orapa Mine, Turing Machine or Logic are all very good (and on bga and I think at least Orapa mine doesn't need premium)

>>97876580
Ricochet Robots

>>97875755
The lightfag/heavyfag "discussion", if you could call it that, is primarily born out of heavyfags discussing games and lightfags barging in with their absolutely insipid takes about the hobby. Being lightfags and having asinine opinions is very strongly correlated in this general, and my theory is that both are caused by early onset dementia. Something more or less admitted to several times over the past couple of years.

>something to do with your hands/secondary to a conversation?
Pocket holes were invented for that.

>>97876580
funny you say that, I recently started working on some logic mazes for shits and giggles and started to wonder how I would go about sharing it besides a gamebook or 'maze of the day' website and was like, nahh who the fuck does logic puzzles that aren't just sudoka/wordle while my stupid ass is doing ken-ken on the daily

>>97876666
Checked

>>97876714
The logic puzzles probably moved mostly to apps.

>>97875755
nope
>>97875797
>I've actually had a knife pulled on me and held to my gut before
your lipo & tummy tuck doesn't count
>>97875816
no

first impressions after playing mindbug for 3 rounds and compile for 4 rounds:

obviously very different games, but i do prefer compile. mindbug is too simple for my taste. with compile i found the possibilities and decision making more interesting and the way you can come up with synergies and interact with what you or your opponent is doing. whereas mindbug almost feels like a simpler version of magic the gathering mostly. will continue to play them both

>>97877356
Well at least you're honest. Don't care for tg much, huh?

>>97877419
i keep /bgg/ bookmarked 24/7 and don't venture outside of it. years back i visited the rest of /tg/ when i was more active with ttrpg's and 3d printing.
also, add me to the pile that doesn't see/understand what you're talking about. i looked at the 7 threads you linked to (one was nuked). looked like normal thread OPs to me.
feel free to explain to me and everyone else what is going on, i'll listen.

>>97876509
>the unadulterated truth
We've had these lazy content harvesting threads for years. Go play a board game, if your hands are busy you won't be so tempted to clutch your pearls.

>>97875845
hey deleted, you want to give me/us your board game history?
i saw your post last thread about growing out of board gaming and wanted to ask, but didn't have time. give me a breakdown if you want to talk about it. how old are you? how long you been into board gaming? what sorts of mechanics have you been into over the years? what were your favorite games? how many people you play with and how often? etc

>>97877488
Tg is being systematically destroyed and it just bugs me. I've never noticed how bad it's gotten.
>>97877515
You're right but pardon me for giving a fuck. I want to care about this boards's abysmal state.

I cant stop thinking about Indonesia.
I wont claim it's a better FCM, but its doing the similar produce goods/compete for sales in a more streamlined manner that I think I vastly prefer.
That and sniping companies through mergers only for that new company to be counter sniped into a larger merger is such a hilarious threat to be constantly on red alert.
The whole tech tree of FCM is compelling, but the multi step over multi turns make sales plus constant reorg'ing your company is just a bit too many steps for the same satisfaction payoff for my reptile brain.

>>97877575
it'll be ok
toddlers throwing tantrums run out of steam

>>97877664
i wish Indonesia/FCM/Horseless Carriage were a lot less fiddly and about 2 hours shorter
they sound neat, but i'm more of a Bus feller

>>97877673
You're right. I just want to grumble about the state of tg before I get banned over it lol

>>97877416
the drafting in compile feels like the bulk of the decisionmaking. my hand felt like it played itself most of the time. maybe this will change if i start to memorize the card pool and play around what the opponent might have
mindbug's biggest decisions are what to mindbug, but you need to be making that evaluation constantly. plus the board state feels a little more interesting to me.
both are very tempo oriented designs. maybe i also just prefer mindbug because the cards have a bit more thematic flavor

>>97877416
>>97877762
do either of you have an opinion on algomancy? it's bren on my radar for a while but i don't think it would go over well with my group

>>97877664
I've looked a bit into indonesia and to my untrained eye it looked like a less interesting 18xx with extremely shit graphic design

>>97877691
FCM with expansion is about 1.5 hours long.
HC is about 1.3 hours long if not less.

>>97877934
no they're not
and HC has 10,000 pieces that will go flying if you sneeze wrong

>>97877949
I'm sorry you play with AP-ridden, parkinson-having ass brainlets, but that's how long my 4p sessions take now that everybody knows how to play.

I love heavy games but I'll be damned if I can get my group to play them. We'll play 6 hours of an rpg but no one has that kind of time for a board game. Kinda depressing because it used to be the exact opposite. We'd spend 12 hours on some wargame *that wasn't even that good*. I love my RPG time but I miss board games immensely.

>>97877790
I'm neither of the anons, but I got the game. I confess I've not played it as I wanted it to fill the void mtg drafts have left and haven't come around to getting the old team together. But I do kind of regret getting it. The AI art might seem tolerable at first, but it is beyond shit; it doesn't give you any visual clues (eg.: wtf this shitter flies? Why? I don't think it even has wings? Oh this gigantic tough looking monster wi- wait it's a 1/1? How?) and is so desperately same-y it actually drags the game down. The rulebook is also beyond shit and you very much need online resources to actually understand even basic concepts. You know, the shit that comes up turn 1 and makes everyone go huh no idea what's going on. Like spell tokens. Since algomancy both leans heavily into mtg concepts yet does a poor job of highlighting the core differences. Point being, the live drafting is an excellent idea in theory and 1v1 surely is where it's at but that faggot really, REALLY needed a developer to accompany the process. I mean imagine writing your degree on the box of a boardgame.

>>97878022
Huh. Damn if that doesn't sound horrible all the way around.

>>97877570
43. 2017 I got pulled in by Gloomhaven. I don't count before that as being in the hobby really. I played whatever my friends owned. The coolest board game I personally owned as a kid was Mutant Chronicles: Siege of the Citadel (1993). I'm AD&D2e generation, so I've played a bit of everything from Warhammer Fantasy, Battletech, to Magic: The Gathering. The mechanic that fascinates me the most right now is deck-thinning. To be honest I'm having a hard time thinking of favorite games because I spent the last two months straight obsessing over what I like and dislike in my board games and found them lacking. That said, I really like San Juan. I don't like playing it but I think it's a really neat design. How often do I play? How many people do I play with? And what do I have in my butt? You caught me officer. This year it's been almost entirely solo or with my wife. In previous years our most played (modern) game would not have been more than forty sessions. Though most wouldn't have cracked five. Total players? The most this year was six, maybe seven, but I didn't set that up. The most I've had in my home is seven. That isn't the norm though. That sucks the energy right out of me. I'd rather play solo. To be fair I think I'm done with the hobby.

>>97877958
>Indonesia 180–240 Min
>FCM 120–240 Min
>HC 180–240 Min
must be the only board games that oversell the time it takes to play

>>97878535
I wanted to issue a correction. One of the people at my home was not playing. That would mean that six is the most people we've had playing a game here. It's been a few years, so forgive me if my memory is foggy on that.

What's the difference between a solo mode for a board game and a puzzle?

>>97875816
>going to /tg/
ISHYGDDT

Why do I see people talk up Root as this impossible teach? I've taught it to two new people and they were able to get the game well enough to play with very minor questions/corrections after just 20 minutes. Are people just mixing up being able to play competently with having a deep understanding of each faction?

>>97878691
/bgg/ is probably terrible at teaching games overall. or more likely, we have to settle for playing with people that aren't very smart most of the time.

>>97878691
The heaviest game I can get most people I know to play is El Grande. Keep in mind Rococo, Acquire, and Dune Imperium have genuinely filtered several people.

>>97877691
I only played Indonesia once and it seemed like a good idea that they didn't really finish, I remember routes being fiddly as fuck and a lot of annoying dead spots where everyone tries to parse the board state through Splotter's typical chewed up crayon asthetic. The new one looks a lot cleaner, I wouldn't mind trying again.
>>97878691
The rules are not hard at all and people can enjoy their first game and feel like they're doing a good job but holding up your end of the idiotic food pyramid of kingmaking that Root entails is a completely separate game and it's kind of a shitty boring time when you play with someone who doesn't understand that it's their job to remove WA cardboard and they just happily march their cats around meowing under their breath, for example. I'm retired from Root but I'm sure it's a lot of fun when everyone is on the same page.

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>>97878691
>he thinks Root is a game you can understand just by reading the rulebook

>>97878691
I think the edge cases vagabond causes genuinely suck and ruin the game.

>>97878116
Better you just watch a few gameplay vjdeos, he's got plenty uploaded

>>97878691
I think it's a hard teach because of the asymmetry; you're essentially explaining 4 different games and need to understand the finer intricacies of each. Personally, I hate teach-as-you-go and "don't worry why anon is doing this, we'll come to it (when it fucks you up)" as it feels like wasting a whole game just to introduce people. My group prefers the upfront teach, and that's a chore. I realize this is just us, though.
>>97879191 also this kinda

>>97878654
replayability, a puzzle always presents the same challenge, the only reason to complete a puzzle more than once would be to do it faster

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So I got oracle of delphi in the mail a few days ago and played a multihanded learning game. And I keep asking myself, how does feld do it? It's in essence a kinda gay pick up and deliver game where a significant part of skillful play is groking the convoluted board at a glance. Yet it somehow has this feldian effect of immediately hooking you. I only played a multihanded game and already want to play it again.

>>97878691
Board gamers are on average shit at gaming and play 1 game a few times before jumping to the next fotm release
For example in league of legends/dota you have to learn multiple characters and dozens of matchups just to not get raped and flames 10 minutes in yet learn 3 factions is too hard for boardgamers

>>97879980
Apples and oranges. Playing video games by yourself is infinitely easier and more convenient than finding 3 other adults who are available at any given time. Aside from the obvious millions of operations going on in the background at any given moment in a videogame, constant patching and finetuning, enforcing rules is a huge factor in how many people play something. I would wager the average higher league moba zoomer would feel lost when confronted with reading a 12 page rulebook dry before playing instead of just going by ear and learning by repeats, as an animal would.

>>97878654
Puzzlefags don't have to pay 10 bucks more for every release just to receive a pile of half baked trash clogging up the box

>>97876467
Need? No, but it does make the game easier to manage because you're not writing stuff down on sheet and messing stuff up. However, you can make your own with matchboxes and colored buttons from a hobby store - the official ones from Histogame are expensive to get right now with the tariffs on German post.

>>97879740
I've played a few games of it in on Yucata because of this thread and I like it a lot too. I'm strongly considering buying it.

>>97878696
Jokes on you, I'm the dumb one!

just played another round of compile that took us like an hour. i enjoy it very much. i won by a really small margin. i almost forgot to use my passive and take a card from my deck and if i had gotten any other card, i would have lost. was really fun head to head. we will def. be playing this more regularly, it's good for bringing somewhere, it's easy and has quite the depth and interesting decisions to make and manipulate what's on the board for you and your opponent.

any recs for games for 3 to 4 players that are quick and easy to grasb and play but also have some depth. around 30 to 1h play time would be good.

>>97880702
>any recs for games for 3 to 4 players that are quick and easy to grasb and play but also have some depth. around 30 to 1h play time would be good.
Sea Salt and Paper fo sho

>>97880702
Not sure which Compile box you have, but Ive really enjoyed the Protocols in Main 2, easy recommendation for when you want to spice things up later.

>>97880723
thanks for the rec

>>97880728
we'll def. get main 2 later, i also already looked into it and did hear good things about how they handle new abilities.

>>97880702
The Crew: Mission Deep Sea

4 players, easy with depth, & under 1 hr really narrows things down a lot; but i'm sure you knew that

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Ages ago, I fell into a fugue state and remade the Densha de GO card game cards. It's not a very good game but I like how it turned out anyway, maybe I'll give a copy to my friend's daughter for her upcoming birthday.

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>>97879740
Why did you mix the tile sides?

>>97880702
Paper Tales

Anybody have a game where the dice just seem to hate you extra?
I'll blow up in MLEM every single time, doesn't matter what the odds are.

>>97880854
It's just one of the first images a search put out.
>>97880686
I bought it on a bit of a whim because I found it for pretty cheap (€25) but it's relatively hard to get outside of europe and german/english editions

Allegedly Feld thinks its one of his best designs that never got the spotlight it deserved, so there might be a new edition coming in the next 5 or so years. Then again it'll probably a queen games bullshit kickstarter edition so either overpriced with barebones components or obscenely overpriced with unnecessarily deluxified components pst the point of cumbersome.

>>97880723
Ss&p works with more than 2? Mind I said "works" not "plays". It already has a good portion of randomness in the 2p game, can't imagine a 3-4p one being anything but highly random

>>97879514
That's the only reason I replay board games. I'm speedrunning.
>>97880218
They have higher standards.
>>97881030
I mean somebody has to get the bad rolls. It sucks that it has to be you but I won our last game of MLEM. :)

>>97881154
I've only ever played it at 3&4 and my entire group adores it.

>>97881145
>Allegedly Feld thinks its one of his best designs that never got the spotlight it deserved,
I can see why on both points.

>>97880206
People actually read patch notes or at least watch 30 mins videos about it

>>97880702
Arboretum
Bus
Evolution Climate
Fort
Glory to Rome
Innovation
Mottainai
Ra
Tash-kalar
Tichu
War Chest
Res Arcana

>>97881030
I went the distance in Mlem exactly one time and as a result I can never stop myself from trying to repeat that performance to disastrous results.

>>97879473
This, plus they are taking about teaching it raw to people unfamiliar with euro concepts to begin with.

It's an easy teach to people playing euros for the last 10 years. It's not an easy teach to people that only know Candyland and Monopoly